Folks, pull out a sixpack and a cigar and brew on this one.

I read all the halleluja's about the S & W M&P 15-22.
You guys all love it. My main concern is the markings on the gun. And then particularly the own that says S and W.

* what the h... Is that guy on hollands nr. 1 export product or what...? *

Now, that isn't such a strange thought on THE Smith & Wesson forum. Guy droppin' in like a fly on a dry heap of BS and already flamin' S & W... One can only expect Staffmembers searching for the banhammer at this time.

Allow me to introduce myself: Dutchdiamondback, writing to you from the most beautiful country of the United Kingdom of the Netherlands ( as the one in Europe , that great nation to the west of that other german thingy) sportshooter, Colt-afficionado ( now if that ain't a give-away... ) and lurking around for a tac .22 for a dynamic form of sport shooting called Dynamic Service Rifle which is a rather popular form of sportshooting in the Netherlands. Oh - and before I forget - not loaded with cash or I would have opted for a .223 (5.56) AR-15.

Having introduced myself I am going to - as we say in the Netherlands - throw the bat in the chickenshed.

I'm about to wonder off to the dark side. I have a Colt Diamondback .22 LR, a Colt Python . 357 Magnum, a Colt New Service Model Ace .22 LR and "Big Momma", Colt Anaconda in .44 Magnum. All Colts and well - let's just quote the late Charlton Heston- : From my cold dead hands. Since my search in the Netherlands for a Colt SAA have been futile I'm opting for another Colt legend - the AR-15.

* colt-afficionado, eh? Why don't you get the Umarex? That has got at least a tiny piece of the markings right? *

Right...

I maybe mentally instable because of a severe case of Coltitus, but me ain't stupid. And I'm not going to bore y'all to death by writing down all the cons ( must be a pro somewhere but still can't find it...) between the Smith and the Walther/Umarex/Colt.

In short - here's the challenge for you all:

I am going to ask you lot to tell me why NOT to buy the Smith & Wesson M & P 15 -22. Tell me all about the bad quality, the FTF's the FTE's, the unaccuracy, the ones that blew-up in your face: let's play the be honest game here.

It can't be that good, can it?

yes i would say it really is that good. don't buy an old used model that might suffer from the previous afformentioned problems. get a DUR#### or newer. the only issue i have is sometimes the bolt hold open doesn't always stay on the last round. that could be the ammo or the magazine haven't figured it out yet. hardly a drawback enough to recommend someone away from the gun- especially when most of these 'other' 22s don't even come with a bolt hold open.

You'll really be annoyed by the following:

0) The bolt stays open after the last round is fired. I know - it's not like the Colt/Umarex in this regard, but you may be able to get past that.

1) The fire control group is standard AR-15 fare, meaning it's painfully easy to swap out with your favorite custom wiz-bang trigger. I know, how convenient!

2) If you want to change your stock, I have some bad news - you can use any milspec adjustable stock.THE NERVE!

3) It's possible to change to a real floating hand guard because someone had the audacity to come up with an adapter barrel nut.

These are just some of the reasons that you won't want to get a S&W.

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*Aim small, miss small...

Welcome.

Another thing you'll hate about the 1522 is the ease of field stripping. Unlike the Colt, the 1522 does not require a six-pack and cigar to complete the task.

Famous movie-quote:

You're not helping...

There's got to be something. What about firing OOB?

I had an OOB after 20k rounds... My guess is that I'll probably have another before reaching 100k.

problem from early models, check the serial # thread.

How 'bout this? If you don't want it, don't buy it. otherwise, pick one up, give it a shot (or several thousand) and let us know whether it was a good purchase.

Oh no.

Not the do it yourself so we don't have to play the who's to blame-game on this one.

Franctic effort: Is the ruger SR 10/22 a better gun for the POU as a lightweight AR-15 style in .22-platform?

I traded a 10-22 with a bull barrel, quad rail and scope for my 15-22. I haven't regretted it for a second and wouldn't even consider another 10-22 of any variant.

I'm a new owner and have only taken my 1522 to the range once for a one hour session. What I'm about to tell you may steer you away from this gun. I shot 300+ rounds in that hour without a single malfunction or glitch -- didn't even bother cleaning it first. The last two mags I shot as fast as my finger could pull the trigger. You wouldn't know how unpleasant that was from the smile on my face.

I'm thinking about picking up one or two more

The only promblem I have had with my DUAxxxx Is the last time I wen't to the range I shot up 1000 rounds of Ammo in less than an hour. And had to go home. Ran out

Thanks for the topic fellow countryman.

I'm looking into getting my first gun and this one I really like. Mostly I want to use it for "klapkaart" and 25 yard plinking. After a while I want to get into DSR.

My issue is, will my shooting-range accept this gun as "needed" and not give me the message I can't buy it. (US-guys, ignore this part, it's a Dutch law annoyance)

Sorry, folks. Here comes a bit of dutch gunlaw mumbojumbo...

Incredible me:

It's plain and simple.

If your gunclub fascilitates small calibre carbine ( as in KKK ( for US-readers; not the guys who dress in bedlinnen and who are cold all the time and try to get warm by staying outside and by building weird shaped bonfires ) which they most likely will, you can get it. You do not have to be a member of the APS yet, because the M & P 15-22 is NOT a dedicated DSR-rifle. It is not a copy of pistolsubmachinegun, it doesn't fire a pistolcalibre ammo like 9mm or .45 ACP.

So - from my point of view your gunclub should not have any problems issueing a WM-3 form.

Edit: I don't know when you can get your first gun, but if I were you I would wait until 1-1-2011. there may be a change in the CWM concerning the stock issue. Hubbub is it could be dropped which means stocks may slide after New Year. If you buy now, you could be faced putting the saw in your brand new gun to exchange your noncollapsable stock for an aftermarket one. The tube on the M & P 15-22 is molded to the lower and can't be removed.

Hurray! I found a downside!!!!!!! Party!!!!!!!!

Supposedly, there is a pin that would have to be removed in order to allow the stock to slide. I think there might be a thread on this forum that describes the process to be done - when one moves from a "no-move" State like NJ to a State that doesn't have unreasonable laws.

Odd original post but hilarious thread

Thanks, I can buy my first gun end of spring, so if the new law passes, it would be nice.

Another downside: It looks bad-***, they think you have a real AR-15, but then it's just a puny .22

I had to send mine back to S&W because my bolt was etching grooves into my cartridges. Still waiting for it to come back.

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Air Assault!

seems most of the problems have been worked out of the newer models. if you buy one with an older serial number then watch out. two of my LGS quit selling them because S&W gave them the runaround on what was causing OOB FTF FTE (we had quite a few of the earlier guns come back in) but now all I can say is WOW and if you search any of my older posts you will see that I was totally against this gun.

Might I ask where the serial number is located on the rifle? I forgot to look the two times I held it and I'm pretty positive I'm purchasing it tomorrow

It's a small silver plate on the left side of the lower on the magazine well. Opposite side of the large M&P logo.

I'm going to speak to what I know and not speculate on the rates of known problems you can sift through here...

The lower is not quite the same as a real AR. Sure, you can swap the fire control stuff, but things like the Magpul BAD and various aftermarket grips don't work quite the same. I wish it was more plug and play in this regard. Did they really have to tweak it out of spec so these kinds of accessories don't play as nicely? Why couldn't they have stuck to the correct external specs on the lower?

I'm not a big fan of rail grips, I can fix that somewhat with various products but not without spending a bit. It also doesn't match it's big brother since I don't bother with rails there. I'd actually prefer a regular handguard style and wish that was a purchase option.

I'm a bit nervous about the charging handle. It hasn't broke on me yet, but there's a reason I bought a beefed up handle for it's big brother. Maybe I won't have an issue, but I'd feel much better if I could order a replacement to have on hand.

Which brings me to parts. I wish S&W would make replacement parts readily available (maybe they're out there and I'm ignorant, but I haven't seen it yet). I'd love to have a spare BCG at a minimum...

Different behavior with different ammo. I wish mine was one that worked well on Federal bulk instead of the multiple FTF on each mag I see. It's nice that S&W told me that CCI Mini-Mags was more or less the official round, but it's a less economical round for me and this tool is about, surprise, the economy! Though this failing isn't unique to this product, I hate how ammo finicky 22lr arms tend to be in general. Seems like it's the rare model that eats everything, I happen to have a buckmark that does, but every other 22lr I've owned has definite and obvious preferences and my M&P15-22 is no exception.

I wish it had a functional dust cover. I guess I've never really needed it for my AR that I can remember, but, you know, it's that completeness factor.

I think that about sums up my reasonable objections.

More legal mumbojumbo...

Just a pin is not what dutch lawmakers think is durably fixed.
Method of a correct fixed stock in the Netherlands is a screw through the stock and tube after the stock has been glued to the tube.

And all because some lawmaker back in the early 1900's desided thata rifle shouldn't be allowed to be taken a part for easy hiding, as was common use among poachers.

But hopefully somebody has seen the light. Only thing I need is another change in law on your side of the pond. I'm drewling over Magpulgoodies, but Magpul is dangerous for a european sportshooter who resides in a simple brickhouse and not in a cave, abides the law and shaves regularly and just happens to love shooting on non-breathing objects.

Am I already scaring the daylights out of you lot...?

Talk you out of buying a 15-22? Ok. Don't get one. Get two, they're fun fun fun.

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Endeavor to persevere. <><

I posted this in my original thread about the bullet etching but thought I'd post it here too because I mentioned it as a problem and I think S&W fixed it......

Got my rifle back from S&W today. I got the same treatment as Phil, came back with new blue spring and a chamber flag. No free mag

BUT more importantly it no longer is etching my bullets when I rack the bolt!! I also think they did something to my ejector because it is CRAZY now . When I rack the bolt to pull a round out of the chamber it ejects it literally 8-10 feet away. They fly out of the gun. Before I sent it they'd kinda just barely fall out the side.

I have not shot it yet but I am super excited to see how well it works. I'll most likely be going to the range tomorrow (Friday).

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Air Assault!

I've used Federal Auto Match successfully, as well as the CCI MiniMags. I've heard that Winchester Super-X works well too (I've seen reports where it appears to be the most accurate in a 15-22), and is available locally in most parts of the country.

The rifle's out-of-spec parts bothers me too. The worst part is that you can't just replace the lower, because the upper's takedown lug is too thick to be used in a standard lower. The only solution if you want an in-spec receiver pair is to get a fully assembled from someone OTHER THAN S&W, Colt, or Sig - Tactical Solutions and CMMG make a fully-assembled rifle that uses milspec receivers, meaning ANY AR-15 part can be used.

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*Aim small, miss small...

[QUOTE=grimreaper21;135687109]yes i would say it really is that good. don't buy an old used model that might suffer from the previous afformentioned problems. get a DUR#### or newer. the only issue i have is sometimes the bolt hold open doesn't always stay on the last round. that could be the ammo or the magazine haven't figured it out yet. hardly a drawback enough to recommend someone away from the gun- especially when most of these 'other' 22s don't even come with a bolt hold open.[/QUOTE I have both a 15/22 & 15/22p, serial # DTPxxxx on the 15/22 and DURXXXX on the 15/22p, I have issues more the pistol, FTE & OOB, sent back to S&W, got it back last night and going to the range 2-day, hopefully S&W took care of my problem will let you know

what was the turn around time? Mine went in last week and wondering when it is likely to come back

It wasn't too bad actually. It was about 3 weeks.

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Air Assault!

Got my 15/22p back in 8 days, which i thought was very quick, put 200 rounds thru it yesterday, (FED BULK) with only 1 little jamup, which i think was they way i loaded the mag, Free mag?

S&W was sending a free magazine or two when they sent the gun back.

guess people were sending in guns to get magazines (or so someone thought, or it was costing them too much!)

Hey Dutch, where's the pics of your new 15-22?

Haven't got it yet and it will take a few more weeks.

Reason #1:

Possible upcoming change in a gunlaw concerning the fixed stock rule. It would be a shame to pull out a hacksaw on Januari 1st.

Reason # 2: They sold out about 6 weeks ago. My preferred dealer is waiting for a fresh load from across the pond.

I have fired approx. 10,000 rounds through mine and no problems. Dang, nothing to fix on the work bench. What to do now?

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Timman
Semper Fi

You know...reading back ones own posts has a purposs. Now and again one discovers a legitimate I owe U...

Here's how things develloped. The S & W M&P15-22 was on the wishlist, but then something else came my way. The ISSC mk-22. And me being a southpaw I decided to give this one a try first...



And that was a huge msitake!

I think I've got every reason to write this gun into the ground and as deep as the Grand Canyon: it's absolutely excrament! (pardon my english... )

The stock broke at the first visit to the gunrange and within in 1500 rounds I managed to destroy the gun beyond repair. Screws coming loose, FTE's, FTF's, round holes turning oval. I never experienced a true jam-o-matic in my lifetime, but the ISSC had it all. So out with the rifle that suffers from an identitycrisis (although I still think that the ambidextrous features give it a cetain +!) and in with this puppy.



And compared to the ISSC... it's a boring rifle. It's accuracy is sufficient - not outstanding - and when you pull the trigger it goes bang. Even with not recommended ammo (must try remington ammo...).
If one wants to practice malfunction-drills, this is not the gun for you. Get the ISSC it's more fun when one indulges in guntrouble of all sorts.

In sort and ones again: happy camper... boring...

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Writing from Holland, Europe

Hey Dutch, nice to see you again.

Glad to hear all is well and uneventful with the 15-22.

Yea I'm w/ this guy. Well said. :lol

*I was researching Many hours many forums many websites.
Could have chose any .22 that was NY compliant and after factoring I'm all I've found I chose this. And I am very pleased.
+ Not 1 Failure of any kind.

Sorry, this is the real thing, it is the best AR15 22LR tactical rifle on the market to date. Some hilights as to why I believe it is:
1. It is a true tactical designed from the ground up 22LR.
2. It is a clone of the AR15 platform so you can us it to train.
3. It is it's own true design of a AR but built around the 22LR, not
like Colt's airgun modification (Shame on you Colt).
4. It is well made, using modern polymer and steel products
5. It is modular in design, from a CQB to sniper (of small rodents).
6. It can use full size AR products (of which there are thousands of
vendors out there to pick from).
7. It is great to teach new shooters, easy to use and learn.
8. It is easy to CLEAN, you don't need to be a college grad. to do it.
9. It eats all types of 22 ammo, pretty much.. and last..
10. It is FUN to use, FUN to train, EASY on the wallet and cool or as
they say TACTICOOL...

So there is ten good reasons to get it.. you know just get it.. you will see for yourself.

I can give you some excellent reasons for not going with the M&P 15-22. My wife shot mine a few weeks ago and declared that with the laser, flashlight and Trijicon Reflex sight that my rifle was too heavy. So now she has the Talo Pink/Platinum 15-22 with none of the aforementioned accoutrements.
So here are two:

1. When you buy yours, someone else in your family is going to want one. If you're lucky, it will be someone you can tell to buy their own. If you are not lucky like me, it will be someone you can't refuse who is saying buy this for me.

2. With a *Trijicon Reflex sight and without really trying, you can shoot a 25 round group that is basically a round hole about an inch to an inch and a half across using ammo the gun likes. From a bench with better breath control, etc. I'm sure you could shrink that. So if you are looking for a rifle that won't hit the target, this one is not for you.

*Regarding the Trijicon. Ok, not everybody puts a $600 sight on a $450 gun although I like to think of it as putting my $450 gun on a $600 sight.

Oh yes, the fact that I'm thinking of buying a couple more of them and putting them back until my grandsons are older should have no bearing on anyone's decision and should not be considered a recommendation of this excellent, proven weapon.

CW

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μολὼν λαβέ

I must agree with some of the previous posts, the downside of shooting this rifle is sharing with the family. I don't go to the range myself and enjoy all the shooting. The gun is so fun that my wife and children insist on enjoying it as well. So if during one range trip 400 rounds are shot through the M&P, I was only on the trigger for 100 to 200 of them!

dude....
why oh why did you buy the issc ??? its a umerex....!!!! gsg type piece of **** !!!
then, after reading this bloody long thread... you bought a 15-22....
just as I was going to say " buy a Sig 522" as it's the only other gun made by a real gun company... and its heavy ( it weighs the same as the original .223 version)..
oh well...
BEDANKT, TOT ZIENS !!!

The SIG522 is the only gun that can compete for the title as best out of the box .22 Tactical rifle along side the Smith.

Downsides however in my neck of the woods:

1. Availability. They are very scarce. Only saw one in my area.
2. Price. 850 plus euros is a very hefty price. That's 200 euros more then the smith.
3. Magazines. Even scarcer then the gun itself.

And in general the lesser railspace on the SIG compared to the Smith.

The quality of build, accuracy, materials used on the SIG - it's outstanding.
But you simply can't buy what isn't available and when it is, it's way over budget.

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Writing from Holland, Europe

Sounds like a 15-22 is your next purchase then huh?