What kind of accuracy are the 15-22's capable of? I'm not talking offhand with a 4 MOA red dot. I'd like to know what you guys can do with a decent scope off a rest. Thanks.

I've just recently purchased both the pistol and the MOE rifle. Off a bipod both can thread the needle sort to speak. Also, both will shoot match ammo but I have gotten pretty decent results with Fed. bulk. One thing I need to mention is that I've been shooting indoors at 50' but I think I'm going to be quite happy at much longer range.

Hobie

Been shooting from rest with 6x scope to 100m distance. CCI standart runs around 60mm / 10 shots. Lapua x-treme little better about 50mm. Federal high velocity around 120mm.
There is no use to use high velocity ammo. Short barrel don't give same velocities than longer. Only making more dirty and noise.....and FTE.

Honestly, both our other 22lrs (one bolt action single shot, one semi auto both probably over thirty years old) out shoot my M&P MOE. It shoots well enough and is fairly accurate, but it's no tack driver. All of them have iron sites.

Here's a couple of recent pics of targets shot at 50' using CCI minimags through my MOE 15-22 with a Leupold scope, Harris Bi-pod and a good cheeck weld. The gun has potential as it's operator is still learning.

Attached Images

	bill the cat_1.jpg (39.1 KB, 516 views)
	IMG_0061_1.jpg (27.6 KB, 459 views)

The 15-22 is an average shooter, IMO. I've been shooting for over 45 years and it isn't anything to write home about. You can find .22LR rifles for half the price that will put tighter groups down range.

I bought mine because it is cheaper to shoot than my M&P15 and since the manual of arms is identical, it is a great practice rifle. Many of the folks that own the 15-22 haven't shot anything else and will often times give you the impression that it is a real shooter. I guess it is a matter of perspective. It is fun to shoot? Of course it is! Perhaps one day an after market barrel will be available that really does give it the accuracy it deserves.

__________________
Stu

+1 All I ever shoot is Fed Bulk pack's and shooting from a bench/table with a bi-pod I can't say it's "Thread the needle" accuracy, but definitly much better then my Ruger 10/22's which have about $1,000 each into them.

I have tried Wolf match ammo and to be honest I felt I got better results with Fed bulk ammo!

I have 2 Ruger 10/22's and the 15-22 is far more accurate and far more reliable then BOTH my 10/22's. I have had zero problems with my 15-22 except for a couple of FTF's which were ammo problems as they had great firing pin marks, I just rotated the rounds and they all fired on the 2nd try.

Sure there are more accurate rifles out there, any of the bolt action rifles should be more accurate, but for a semi-auto it's very accurate.

Typically I think those that say the 15-22 isn't accurate, have expectations that are unrealistic for the rifle.


-Masta

I guess my pics didn't convey the consistentcy of my gun. The "dot" target is dime sized and I was getting 1/2" deviation over 20 rounds except where I pulled the shot. Bill the cat had his boiler room removed by 10 rounds fired at about 2 rounds a second.

Granted, it's not match target Anschutz good but for under $500, it's not bad. Also, this is my first rifle like this, and I'm just getting used to it and the ammo it likes best.

I'm happy and can't wait to go outside and really work the gun.

Going to the range tomorrow and make heaping piles of brass. Love the brass deflectors keeping brass out of my eyes.

Hobie

Attached Images

	IMG_0063_1.jpg (33.3 KB, 359 views)
	IMG_0064_1.jpg (32.6 KB, 347 views)
	IMG_0065_1.jpg (23.8 KB, 305 views)

smith and wessons pro shooter jerry miculek was able to shoot a sub 2moa at 200 yards off-hand (standing unsuported) with a bone stock 15-22 and iron sights. yes i know this man gets paid to be an outstanding shot but this at least shows you that its not the rifle holding back your accuracy its you

It's about half as accurate as an equivalent priced bolt .22, but sub 2 MOA with the right ammo isn't bad, and the average shooter can't shoot that well unsupported anyway.

__________________
Science plus Art

not only is sub 2 moa at 200 not bad thats down right fantastic that equates to sub 1 moa at 100 yards. hell theres not many center fire rifles capable of that out of the box. the biggest downside with this and any other 22lr is how easily it is effected by the weather when talkin about accuracy

I'd love to see the vids.. if he can do it offhand, why couldn't a bench shooter reproduce it fairly easily in a vice with a high powered scope? I don't see too many people doing this well

I`m going to have to call you on this one,please cite your sources.Sub 2 minute groups are one thing,offhand a whole differeny story.

It's possible I suppose. 2 MOA at 200 yrds is ~4"

indecorous.com | Bullseye Pistol | MOA calculator

Off hand with a 4MOA dot you should be able to get 90% of them in "the circle" at 50 yards and keep the rest on the target as fast as you can acquire the target and pull the trigger.

I posted this over a year ago. This is "just blasting" four (4) magazines in less than two minutes in 21 Nov 09. Pretty sure it's Winchester Super-X in 333 packaging.

You won't get this kind of practical "combat accuracy" unless the "benchrest accuracy" is already in the rifle and ammo (see the photos above). The greater dispersion is you, or in this case me.





-- Chuck

I can say I watched the program on tv about 2 weeks ago. I believe it was "Impossible Shots"... I can't say for sure what exactly were the details, I suffer from , "CRS".. BUT!! I know I saw JM shooting the 15-22 at 200 yards and kill whatever he was shooting, like it was unbelievable... like an "impossible shot"

here's a link t the show website.. http://www.shootingusa.com/IMPOSSIBL...ble_shots.html

__________________
Jack C

American Rifleman did some testing on all the black rifle .22s in their Dec 2010 issue.

15-22 came in about mid pack among the bunch with overall 1.71'' average groupings from sandbags at 50 yards. (ammo used was CCI Tactical, CCI Select, RWS)

The best average groups were from the Ruger SR22 using CCI Tatical. Best group was .60'', largest was 1.03'', with an average of .85''. In comparison, 15-22 best group with CCI tactical was 1.08'', largest 2.10'' with an average of 1.75''. --- YMMV

I watched the same show,it was called impossible shots.He was drawing the 15-22 from his side,getting on target and nailing a ballon at 200 yards,and all of this under one second.I cant remember if it was iron sights,I thought he had a scope,but either way the gun is pretty accurate.

That's the bottom line... it shoots and functions great. What else do we need to know..

__________________
Jack C

Look at my target. This is at 50 yards, most bullets fall within the grouping. The one's that do not are my fault. It is a very accurate rifle in my opinion. The type of ammo you use will also effect your accuracy as well. I probably could have done better too if my hands were not frozen from the below freezing 25mpg gust when I shot this grouping.

Watching at home, the trigger looked gold to me and I was assuming an upgraded trigger assembly. I would also guess Jerry is NOT using Federal Bulk...

hahaha, federal bulk......

what's that? (j/k) I'm just a CCI whore.

So then it isn't all just me? I feel better now.

__________________
Endeavor to persevere. <><

shooting usa's impossible shots on the outdoor channel ch406 on comcast in lacey WA that wasnt the impossible shot either

Fed. bulk is noise in a box IMHO. As was stated by vdc, I'm turning into a CCI ho myself.

I think that our lil' black guns are as much fun as we can have in a S&W 15-22 platform. I'm really pleased with mine and am going to run a wide variety of ammo thru using my varmiter rest and my new 10 round mag. Pics to follow and I look forward to going outside in a day or two........

CYa
Hobie

Technical point: angular measure (minutes of angle) is independent of distance, so 2 MOA is 2 MOA is 2 MOA.
2 MOA is 2" at 100yds, 4" at 200 yds, etc.

"Minute of angle" is 1/60 of a degree.

I have shot 1/2" groups at 100yds with target bolt-action .22s, which is 1/2 MOA, but not standing unsupported.

__________________
Science plus Art

Jerry Miculek made the offhand shot breaking a ballon at 200 yd. against a timer on the cable show "impossible shots" using a low magification scoped SW M&P 15-22 probably with an american trigger corp. AR gold trigger installed since that is what he uses in his 3-gun AR. it's a $300 trigger, but the man's marksmanship skills are incredible in their own right.

the best tools in the world do not make the craftsman better, they only allow him to put in his best performance...

My response will turn a lot of people off because shooters are more interested in opinion and hype than facts.

I got my first rifle 68 years ago (Sixty eight) and I still shoot competition both rifle and pistol, not very completive any more, but at 81 years of age I still give a lot of the youngens a run for their money. I shoot at least once a week weather permitting, sometimes more.

A lot of my shooting is testing various guns and ammunition.

I bought my S&W M&P 15/22 for the same reasons you did.

My S&W M&P 15/22 is not the performance center version.

The first thing I did with mine is replace the horrible trigger that it comes with, next was magpull CTR Stock and MOE Grip.

Next Was a Redfield Battlezone 6X18 for accuracy testing to find out the “TRUTH” regarding its accuracy.

Chart show the prelimary and on going results.

Too bad that pasting my Spreadsheet in the post loses it's formating!

OK, here goes an attempt to format my accurace results. Pasting the spreadsheat made it confusing.

Fireing was done with Caldwell benh rest at 25 yards with Redfield Battezone 6X18 set at 18 Power.

I'm listing the average group size in MOA. Average is the average of three 5 shot groups.

A few ten round groups were fired at 100 yards and groupe size at 100 yrds in MOA closely matched the groups in MOA at 25 yards.

The best 10 shot group at 100 yards was fired with Norman Match 22 and measured 2.9"

AMMUNATION______________Average
ELEY STD__________________ 3.5
ELEY BLK BOX______________ 2.1
ELEY HV___________________ 2.5
WIN SUPER MATCH__________ 6.1
FED LIGHTNING_____________4.2
FED CHAMPION_____________ 3.7
CCI MM HP_________________3.4
CCI STD___________________6.4
WIN SX SP_________________5.4
WIN SX HP_________________3.4
RWS HV___________________2.8
RWS TGT__________________2.2
NORMA 22 MATCH___________3.0
SK STD____________________2.5
SK RIFLE MATCH____________2.3

Sometimes the truth hurts, sometimes it enlightens. It all depends on how honest you are with yourself.

The Performance Center may, and should do better than the results I obtained. Would like to find out. But not willing to spend that much just to satisfy my curiosity.

My greatest complaint for the S&@ 15/22 is the flexibility of the action.

Zero it for 50 yards and then put a sling on it and try to shoot it and you will see what I mean. I can shift the zero by 4 inches at 50 yards by varying the tension on the sling. Not Good!!!

Am I sorry I bought it? No, just wish I had opted for the Performance Center version in the first place.

My unmodified 15-22 shoots about a 1 1/2 in group at 25 yards using Federal bulk ammo.
My Ruger 10-22 Match with a bull barrel can put every shot touching another at 25 yards with the same ammo.
The 15-22 is much more fun to shoot and I use it much more than the Ruger.

For sure it's a fun rifle. I'm not going to put a sling on it ok. I use it from 30 yards standing, off-hand shooting at 8 inch coffin targets. It's hard getting 2 holes when trying to shoot quickly. But when I move forward from the 30 yd line to engage 25 and 10 yd targets, it becomes much more predictable in its hits. Fast and accurate when used for fun but it's not for touching hit marks.

I guess I got lucky on my first 1522. At 25 yds with my squirrel hunting scope (Tasco 3x9x40) it will put all the shots into a ragged hole the size of a nickel easily. I can usually hit the bullet hole of choice. That's on a solid rest with my short bipod,no end cap. Using Winchester Dyna Point hp

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Another lucky one......mine performs as well as i perform...i always take into account for the handguard flex and do not apply that much pressure with my support hand, but even with the questionable trigger mine shoots quite accurately.

I rested my AFG on an 25 round mag and got this.
[IMG][/IMG]

Offhand....if i am in tune....i can get this and better.
[IMG][/IMG]


I reckon....going with T-22's handguard convertor and a better trigger i could bring the offhand shots closer to the 'rested' shots.
All shot at 25 yards. 10 shots in each target
Mine had a loose barrel nut which after tightening up reduced the group size...also finding an ammo that mine shot best with improved groupings.
it has been said that the UK ones are more accurate eh Rob1

25 yards? Only way I'd get a group like that would leave burn marks on the paper.

__________________
FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

A new nickle measures 0.835 inches which turns out to be 3.19 MOA.

That's pretty consistant with the results I have.

That really isnt very accurate.

I have built up several Ruger 10/22's for myself and for others that beat this considerably.

I have one Ruger 10/22 that I am using for our clubs monthly benchrest matches and competing against Anschutz and custom built benchrest rifles. I have never been match winner but one time but i've never been last either.

I certainly would be last place 100% of the time if I tried it with my S&W 15/22.

I still consider the 15/22 a fun rifle and a great manual of arms for the AR even if it doesn't match it weight wise.

Just in case some here haven't heard..... The AR15-22........ is not a match target rifle... don't believe it was ever sold or advertised as such... but it sure is the best 15-22 out there, nothing I own matches it in fun, cost of training or enough accuracy to guarantee to take down small game if used for that..

If wrapping your arm around a sling causes one to miss by 4"..... I got a news flash for ya.... don't wrap your arm around a sling...

__________________
Jack C

I shoot with a sling & without and get no variance at all. I have used my slings with all sorts of configurations on my 15-22s... stock rifle with endcap attached, same with endcap removed, and with Evolution AR handguards attached to 16" barrel length 15-22 plus a SBR 15-22. In all of those configurations, the handguard is free float so I'm confused what you are doing that would cause this zero shift. While shooting off hand, if I wish to increase my accuracy I use the sling. It helps... surely doesn't hurt.

As I minimum I suggest you remove the endcap. It is purely decorative and I'm assuming is touching your barrel when you add tension to the handguard thru the sling. The following lyrics from a Bake Shelton song might apply here. "A gun's like a woman, son it's all how you hold her"

Also curious how you have attached your sling? This pic shows how mine work.

__________________
FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

For the past few months, I have been "shooting steel" at a local firing range in the NSSF steel challenge format for 22LR. Normal attendance is around 50 people and there appears to be around 10-15 of these people shooting 15-22. could be more because 90%+ of the rifles are either 15-22 or Ruger 10-22. A couple of the guys that are always at the top shoot 15-22. I have not witnessed any jams and have watched the other shooters as much as possible, looking at what brand/type gun they are shooting, and just what they are "doing" at the line. I do not own one of these, but they look a hoot to shoot and shooting steel is a lot of fun. They look like a great gun for "minute of steel" accuracy. A 12" square or round gong at 10 yards is a big target. Most everyone is shooting some type of bulk ammo but it appears a lot of people are shooting CCI. My son and I have been playing with our rifles and pistols and the CCI appears to be way ahead of the Winchester and Remington bulk ammo and a little above the Federal bulk ammo. Keep on shooting.

Not. The 15-22, even the PC model is 2 MOA at best (I own both types). If your 10/22s can't outshoot the 15-22 accuracy wise there is something wrong. Most stock 10/22 can be shot to 1 MOA if the skill is there. Yes the 15-22 is more reliable than a stock 10/22 but both can be as good if you want to spend some $$ on the 10/22. There is not a lot that can be done to increase the 15-22's accuracy because of the way it is made. A steel barrel using a compression nut to tie it to a polymer upper is not a formula for accuracy and S&W did not intend to make it really accurate. Every shot down the barrel will cause the upper receiver to flex due to barrel harmonics and barrel whip. Which is why it will not group well regardless of ammo. Yes it has some steel reinforcements in the receiver but it can't take the place of an all metal receiver.
I have had one or more 15-22s since 2011. In that time they have won me a number of speed titles in my clubs, including Steel Challenge. During that time I also won 3 free standing rimfire metallic silhouette titles and a qualification as Distinguished Expert in Winchester NRA Qualifications for Benchrest and Free Standing. but none of those were with a 15-22. And I tried a few times to shoot MH with the 15-22 but the fliers just made it impossible.

Who told you Jerry's rifle is bone stock? It isn't for a fact. Jerry is an inhumanly accurate shooter who I have met several times but I happen to know his exhibition 15-22 has a custom barrel from Lothar-Walther in it (and no telling what else it might have). The factory AR iron sights on a 15-22 do not have enough adjustment to shoot to POI at 200 yards with .22LR ammo. And its not a true group unless you shoot a string of 3-5 rounds counting all of them.

When you are shooting the 15-22 with the stock polymer handguard and iron sights what he says is totally true. The OEM handguard with the front sight on it deflects from almost any kind of tension, even that on the shoulder stock off a sandbag rest. In your case you have a metal handguard on your rifle this does not flex as much as the OEM one as I noted on here back in 2012 when experimenting with what could help the accuracy of the 15-22. The other thing that can help is to bridge the gap between the receiver rail and the handguard rail with some kind of clamp, like a 6" riser block. The more you tie the polymer receiver to a metal handguard the less deflection from barrel harmonics will result. I did not spend time quantifying my results back then but all things seemed to help. Maybe I should go back and test for actual numbers. I still have my PC model upper with its match chambered 18" barrel and Nordic alloy handguard. I even have a full benchrest with a hydraulic trigger actuator I did not have then.

Tell you what I am going to do. Because this debate keeps going on and on and because most of us who have been shooting the 15-22 for several years don't believe a single word anyone says when they claim what we know as impossible accuracy out of the 15-22 I am going to do a test. I do have a PC model upper, which also has a Nordic alloy handguard on it and I will have to put it on my speed 15-22 lower (I think the PC lower was stripped for parts) with its Geissele S3G trigger. I also have a full benchrest with a hydraulic trigger actuator, even though my silhouette 597 can shoot .5 MOA of a plain jane Rock Jr. rest. I will do a test including the roughly 8-10 varieties of ammo I have in stock (including some Eley and Lapua but not the best stuff). And whatever ammo wins I will then tune my Limbsaver Barrel De-resonator for that ammo and see what kind of groups I can tune it for. Too much trouble to tune it for more than one. As for a scope I have several I can use including a BSA Sweet 22 6-18x40 and a Nikon BDC 600 4-12x40, or maybe even my new Leatherwood 6-24x50 and I will do tests at 25 and 50 yards which is the most the bullseye range at MPC in Maryland has. I can do 100 and or 200 at the farm I live at but windless days tend to be few while MPC is fairly sheltered. I can set an 8" steel plate at 200 yards just to see if I can hit it multiple times in a row. That is 4 MOA and even those of us who don't think the 15-22 is accurate believe it can hit that. Might take a couple of weeks to set it up depending on weather. We have been getting a lot of thunderstorms recently. I can even compare it side by side with my Taccom AR-22 which according to the guys on AR15.com makes the most accurate barrels for a .22 AR. I will even put my 3-gun lower on it to give it the same trigger as the 15-22.
Unlike you I bought the PC model first not because I believed the S&W hype about it being more accurate but because I was leaving in a few days for the 2011 Ruger Rimfire WC and I needed a backup rifle. Plus as it came in MD with a single 10 rd mag it was cash and carry (no waiting period). Had to wait for RSC to deliver a few 25 rd mags to my PO box in WV before I could leave. Ended up electing to use it instead of my Rem 597 at the event due to reliability reasons.

In reality a nickel is more than 1/2" so yours is shooting 2 MOA just like we all are saying about its limited accuracy. If it shot 1 MOA the hole would be closer to the size of a pencil eraser. 1/2" at 25y is the same as 2" at 100y.

It's good enough for a squirrel rifle. I've got them in the freezer😀 I wasn't trying to be as technical as the responses. I just know mine shoots as well as I need it to.

2 MOA in a .22 is plenty accurate enough to take varmints at 50 yards and under. I have done it with just about every type of .22 there is from pistols to semi rifles to lever rifles. Plenty of people on this forum have also.

My M&P MOE is about a 2" group on the best of days, but that is NOT why I bought it. I helps keep my costs down for my AR shooting as the controls are pretty much identical.
For the record, I have a Nikon 3x9 rimfire scope and the 2"-3" groups are off a bench, but I have to admit, I don't have the patience to just shoot very, very slow fire. I shoot as fast as I can get back on target.

Finally got around to shooting a few groups with mine today. Pulled the red dot and put on a 3x9 scope.



Shot 5 shot groups at 50 yards using CCI SV. Here's my 3 best;