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  #1  
Old 01-11-2011, 03:52 PM
AskDrTodd AskDrTodd is offline
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Default No Barrel Vise- Vise grips with towel OK?

I need to remove & clean and retorque my barrel tonight, I don't have a vise. Since this barrel is only torqued to 20ish ft lbs can I clamp the barrel down in vise grips in a towel to remove the flash hider and subsequently the barrel? If I must use a bench vise, what should I use between it and the barrel?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2011, 04:13 PM
ken158 ken158 is offline
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Sounds like you are talking AR since you mentioned flash hider. Wondering why you "need" to remove the barrel to start with? Certainly not a standard cleaning procedure and not having proper tools / knowledge is asking for a mishap.
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2011, 04:32 PM
Grizzman Grizzman is offline
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Default don't even think about it.

What you want to remove is the barrel nut, which requires a special tool. Set the upper on the floor and grab a friend and have them stand (all the weight of helper not necessary) on the upper while you remove the flash hider and barrel nut.

Using an upper receiver block and clamping it into a vice is the best way, but there are always other options.

Grizz
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  #4  
Old 01-11-2011, 05:01 PM
Brett248Vista Brett248Vista is offline
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First of all... If we are talking about a 15-22 (and I will assume, since this is the 15-22 forum) You do not want to clamp via the upper receiver and I would highly suggest ordering the barrel vice jaws. Tacticool22 makes a great set.

If you don't heed the warning, you could ruin your upper receiver. I am speaking from personal experience here.
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  #5  
Old 01-11-2011, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett248Vista View Post
First of all... If we are talking about a 15-22 (and I will assume, since this is the 15-22 forum) You do not want to clamp via the upper receiver and I would highly suggest ordering the barrel vice jaws. Tacticool22 makes a great set.

If you don't heed the warning, you could ruin your upper receiver. I am speaking from personal experience here.
I agree with Brett. There are a couple tools on here that you can buy for cheap. Or you can crack the polymer and spend the $400 something for a new 15-22. If you think...ahh it wont happen to me...It will!
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Old 01-11-2011, 05:31 PM
AskDrTodd AskDrTodd is offline
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I have a vise at a friend's house I can use but no barrel vise jaws. can I wrap a towel around the barrel and clamp it in the vise that way? or use small pieces of wood? What would be the best method assuming no barrel vise adapter is available?
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2011, 06:48 PM
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Stop, look and listen. The advice given here is good, solid and gained many times from bad experiences. Take the time to get a set of barrel vices and then gun smith your little heart out. You will much happier in the long run. And have only good experienced to pass on to the rest of us. Just remember, we're all in this together.
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Last edited by Shooting Padre; 01-11-2011 at 09:05 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-11-2011, 07:09 PM
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A couple things.... As long as you are holding the rifle by the barrel you won't hurt anything. Put a wrench on the flash hider and give it a light but sharp whack with a small hammer to break it lose. Don't try to strong arm it off. Also, no need to "torque" the flash hider back on. Just snug it up.

You'll need a barrel nut wrench. You can buy one from the Classifieds Sticky thread here or make one yourself from PVC. I recommend buying one but have made my own with PVC and it will work in a pinch.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 01-11-2011 at 07:19 PM.
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  #9  
Old 01-11-2011, 08:48 PM
Brett248Vista Brett248Vista is offline
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My opinion is that if you can afford to spend the money on the rifle, then you can afford to buy the tools to service it. It's not worth being Mickey Mouse because if you screw something up then you are going to be very angry for not listening, and it may cost you as much as the gun cost new, to fix it (especially if you screw up the barrel).

No I do NOT recommend chucking the barrel up in a vice using a towel. Barrel Vice Jaws support the barrel 360 degrees around it. It's the proper tool for the job. And yes you also need a barrel nut wrench.

That's just my $0.02 learned the hard way.
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2011, 08:51 PM
shawnfergie shawnfergie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett248Vista View Post
My opinion is that if you can afford to spend the money on the rifle, then you can afford to buy the tools to service it. It's not worth being Mickey Mouse because if you screw something up then you are going to be very angry for not listening, and it may cost you as much as the gun cost new, to fix it (especially if you screw up the barrel).

No I do NOT recommend chucking the barrel up in a vice using a towel. Barrel Vice Jaws support the barrel 360 degrees around it. It's the proper tool for the job. And yes you also need a barrel nut wrench.

That's just my $0.02 learned the hard way.

Listen to these guys. They know their stuff. I listen to them and ask questions before I cause trouble for myself. Plan ahead, drop the few dollars for the right equipment so you don't have to post that you spoke to SW about getting a new upper.
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  #11  
Old 01-11-2011, 09:51 PM
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Great advice here, these guys know what they are doing. In an absolute pinch you could wrap an old piece of leather belt around the barrel and clamp it with two pieces of wood in a vise (carefully of course). I can almost guarantee you damage to your barrel if you use vise grips on it, even with a towel. I highly recommend you check out Brett's awesome videos on servicing your 15-22. I also am hoping to have a second barrel nut wrench available to everyone out there that will allow checking barrel nut tightness without removing the flash hider. I'll keep you guys posted as to my progress, thanks, Shooboy
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2011, 10:37 PM
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I have a shoowrench, which worked like a champ when used in conjunction with a 15/16ths crowsfoot wrench and the vise grips. Leather belt works much better that cloth of any sort. Rubber might also work but would be more likely to tear.
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2011, 04:04 PM
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An old leather belt wraped in a spiral around the barrel or some wood blocks can "work" but you might not be 100% happy.
The right tool(s) for the job and you will be happy.
For the most part it does not matter if the wrench goes over the flash hider, the hand guard end cap and barrel nut do not fit over the flash hider, so you cannot take the barrel out.
If you just want to tighten the nut, then it comes into play.
Remember to mark the nut and barrel after tightening to gauge if the nut has moved.

Last edited by tacticool22; 01-12-2011 at 04:52 PM. Reason: Added a detail
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2011, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooboy View Post
I also am hoping to have a second barrel nut wrench available to everyone out there that will allow checking barrel nut tightness without removing the flash hider. I'll keep you guys posted as to my progress, thanks, Shooboy
Very cool. How are you designing it to get past the end cap?

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  #15  
Old 01-12-2011, 04:49 PM
mSlay mSlay is offline
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The proper tool makes the job so much easier. Sure, you might wrench it off they way you see it in your head, but c'mon, you really want to risk damaging the upper? I know that I'd rather spend money on goodies and not another rifle.
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  #16  
Old 01-12-2011, 04:52 PM
AskDrTodd AskDrTodd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Very cool. How are you designing it to get past the end cap?

The end cap pops right out. I removed it right away, I don't want anything touching the barrel that doesn't have to!
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  #17  
Old 01-12-2011, 05:02 PM
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ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AskDrTodd View Post
The end cap pops right out. I removed it right away, I don't want anything touching the barrel that doesn't have to!
Yes, I understand. However, most folks keep the end cap on. My question was about how this new tool might be designed to get past the end cap... since you can't slide the end cap off the barrel with the flash hider installed. Perhaps it is a two piece wrench that will fit with the end cap pulled up all the way to the flash hider? Just wonderin...

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 01-12-2011 at 05:07 PM.
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  #18  
Old 01-12-2011, 06:40 PM
grimreaper21 grimreaper21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooboy View Post
Great advice here, these guys know what they are doing. In an absolute pinch you could wrap an old piece of leather belt around the barrel and clamp it with two pieces of wood in a vise (carefully of course). I can almost guarantee you damage to your barrel if you use vise grips on it, even with a towel. I highly recommend you check out Brett's awesome videos on servicing your 15-22. I also am hoping to have a second barrel nut wrench available to everyone out there that will allow checking barrel nut tightness without removing the flash hider. I'll keep you guys posted as to my progress, thanks, Shooboy
id buy this one right away provided its the same price as the other, any idea of a time frame? weeks, months, years?
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  #19  
Old 01-12-2011, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Very cool. How are you designing it to get past the end cap?

Hi guys, sorry, I should have elaborated more. The new wrench I'll be selling alongside the ShooWrench, is this professional grade model. It is fully machined, inside and out, and the bore is big enough to fit over the flash hider. There is a full hex milled into the end of the wrench, and this wrench is made to last several lifetimes. They will most likely be priced at $32, the ShooWrench will still be $20. Like Phil says however, the flash hider will have to be removed if the cap is on the handguard. The new wrench has a split rubber bushing that is fitted into the wrench after it passes by the flash hider, this is for guys that aren't using the factory end cap and want to quickly check the barrel nut tightness. So with this wrench you do have an option that the ShooWrench doesn't. This wrench will also be packaged with a full-color instructional pamphlet on checking your barrel nut tightness using barrel jaws and a vise, and also the complete procedure on removing the barrel. Here's a quick picture to give you an idea. I hope to have these within 2 weeks for retail sales. I'll post more when I have them in hand, thanks, Shoo
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  #20  
Old 01-13-2011, 12:04 AM
Skunkhome Skunkhome is offline
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I'm confused or something. Why are you removing the barrel? Is this a necessary procedure with the MP 15-22? I have never removed a barrel from a receiver except to re-chamber or replace. My MP15-22 hasn't arrived yet but if I have to be removing and reinstalling the barrel I need to put it on the market before I use it. Maybe I can get back the $400+ I sunk in this folly.
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:21 AM
4D5 4D5 is offline
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Default Built my own

I'm a little late to the party but here's my contribution...

Here’s my barrel vise clamps made from scrap hard rock maple, friction tape and two rubber bands.

It took me about 30 minutes to make. I cut rectangles 2” X 3 1/2” with the grain running the short distance so that the block would not split lengthwise.

With a 3/4” round nose router bit in the router table I plowed out enough in each block so the two pieces would not touch with about a 1/16” between them.

Next I plowed out groves on the outside edges deep enough to allow for rubber bands. With the rubber bands you don’t need three hands to manage the barrel/vise/clamp blocks

Finally I put two strips of friction tape on each block in the channel for the barrel, wrapped the rubber bands around the blocks and I was good to go.

The blocks work well as I was able to remove a flash hider from a .308 barrel with no problem.

Here’s some pictures…



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  #22  
Old 01-13-2011, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Yes, I understand. However, most folks keep the end cap on. My question was about how this new tool might be designed to get past the end cap... since you can't slide the end cap off the barrel with the flash hider installed. Perhaps it is a two piece wrench that will fit with the end cap pulled up all the way to the flash hider? Just wonderin...
I'm going to make my endcap 2-piece. I'm going to use two small 'connector' pieces with some small hex head machine bolts. The 'connector' pieces would be tapped to accept the bolts and would positioned behind the end cap so you would only see the heads of the 4 bolts from the outside. When you want to remove the end cap, just unclip it from the handguard, slide it out a bit, and remove only the top two or bottom two bolts.

The other option would be to remove enough of the center portion of the endcap to clear the flash hider. This would make the handguard free-float and still leave something on the end of the handguard so it doesn't look so bare with an open hole. I haven't made any measurements yet for this option so I don't know how much of the 4 'tabs' would remain after removing enough material so that it clears the flash hider. If enough remains, these 4 'tabs' would provide some sort of protection to over flexing the handguard (i.e. if a lot of torque was placed on the handguard it could only flex until the 'tabs' hit the barrel and possibly prevent some damage to the handguard or upper receiver).


Last edited by CPTBeaker; 01-13-2011 at 04:31 AM.
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  #23  
Old 01-13-2011, 05:46 AM
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4D5,

I like your solution a lot!! The rubber band grooves are a really good idea.
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Old 01-13-2011, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skunkhome View Post
I'm confused or something. Why are you removing the barrel? Is this a necessary procedure with the MP 15-22? I have never removed a barrel from a receiver except to re-chamber or replace. My MP15-22 hasn't arrived yet but if I have to be removing and reinstalling the barrel I need to put it on the market before I use it. Maybe I can get back the $400+ I sunk in this folly.
No need to remove the barrel, but the barrel nut on many 15-22 have been found to be loose. One guy posted the other day that barrel actually slid in the receiver cuz the barrel nut was off.
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Old 01-13-2011, 11:29 AM
myeye22 myeye22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4D5 View Post
...Here’s my barrel vise clamps made from scrap hard rock maple, friction tape and two rubber bands....
Yep, works like a champ. Mine's less fancy - I just set the TS blade to 45deg and ripped a v-groove in each face. Plain ole' 2x4 scraps work too - and soft enough it will deform to the barrel - no shaping necessary.
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Old 01-13-2011, 11:36 AM
AskDrTodd AskDrTodd is offline
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One thing though, when I was tightening down the barrel nut, the torque wrench never clicked, and I got concerned I was overtightening it. It was probably a full turn past hand tight or more... I got concerned and didn't want to break anything so I aborted and it is now only hand tight plus 1.25 turns tight...
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  #27  
Old 01-13-2011, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AskDrTodd View Post
I need to remove & clean and retorque my barrel tonight, I don't have a vise. Since this barrel is only torqued to 20ish ft lbs can I clamp the barrel down in vise grips in a towel to remove the flash hider and subsequently the barrel? If I must use a bench vise, what should I use between it and the barrel?

Thanks!
Very heavy leather like from an old (thick!) belt is much better at preventing marring and grips the steel much better than cloth.

I'd avoid toweling it's just too risky for the finish, and if folded thick enough protect it, often winds up too slippery to hold the work.

/c
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:45 PM
Brett248Vista Brett248Vista is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4D5 View Post
I'm a little late to the party but here's my contribution...

Here’s my barrel vise clamps made from scrap hard rock maple, friction tape and two rubber bands.

It took me about 30 minutes to make. I cut rectangles 2” X 3 1/2” with the grain running the short distance so that the block would not split lengthwise.

With a 3/4” round nose router bit in the router table I plowed out enough in each block so the two pieces would not touch with about a 1/16” between them.

Next I plowed out groves on the outside edges deep enough to allow for rubber bands. With the rubber bands you don’t need three hands to manage the barrel/vise/clamp blocks

Finally I put two strips of friction tape on each block in the channel for the barrel, wrapped the rubber bands around the blocks and I was good to go.

The blocks work well as I was able to remove a flash hider from a .308 barrel with no problem.

Here’s some pictures…

4D5,

That's some nice work right there.. and you can just tell that wood is HARD!
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  #29  
Old 01-13-2011, 12:53 PM
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Jim Kalsem Jim Kalsem is offline
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I knew a guy that swore the plumbers pipe wrench worked best on all barrels, the nice thing is, one size fits all. Provided you purchase the big one available at any local hardware store.
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:07 PM
Brett248Vista Brett248Vista is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Kalsem View Post
I knew a guy that swore the plumbers pipe wrench worked best on all barrels, the nice thing is, one size fits all. Provided you purchase the big one available at any local hardware store.
In the words of Dr.Evil: Riiiiiiiiiiiiight!
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  #31  
Old 01-13-2011, 05:02 PM
myeye22 myeye22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Kalsem View Post
I knew a guy that swore the plumbers pipe wrench worked best on all barrels, the nice thing is, one size fits all. Provided you purchase the big one available at any local hardware store.
No way. A pipe wrench has big nasty teeth designed to dig into the metal for grip and would do a real number on a barrel finish. Perhaps he meant plumbers strap wrench.
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  #32  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:51 AM
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In regards to ChattanoogaPhil's post, maybe a strap wrench using a rubber strap would hold well enough for his technique. I haven't tried it but I have two, and the rubber wraps around the barrel, and the harder to pull the tighter it gets. If you only have to hold it to give it a tap, maybe it would work in conjunction with a good barrel nut wrench, like Shooboy's.
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  #33  
Old 01-14-2011, 03:07 PM
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PIPE WRENCH!!!!!! My dads a plumber and i wouldnt use a pipe wrench as a last resort in a zombie attack. It will mar up the barrel and possibly crush it/distort it.
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  #34  
Old 01-14-2011, 03:17 PM
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I'm sure the pipe wrench comment was posted just 'cuz they can.
The reason for removing the barrel is to clean out all the nooks and crannies you can't get to with the rifle assembled. The same thing with the 10/22, you just can't get everywhere.
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  #35  
Old 01-14-2011, 06:25 PM
Brett248Vista Brett248Vista is offline
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The problem with posting something "Cuz you can" is that a new member may take it as Gospel (this is the internet, after all!) and in the process ruin their gun! We do not need false information propagated, if you are going to post something like that, you need to as list post-fix it with "I am JUST KIDDING!!!!"
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  #36  
Old 01-14-2011, 06:27 PM
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ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmitch View Post
In regards to ChattanoogaPhil's post, maybe a strap wrench using a rubber strap would hold well enough for his technique.
You can probably just have someone hold it with their hands while you give the wrench on the flash hider a whack or two and it will break free. Just don't try to muscle it off. Absent a second pair of hands, a barrel vice is very convenient.

The problems start when people try to torque down a flash hider with a crush washer, or use thread locker on the flash hider or barrel nut and then later try to remove it by muscling it off without a barrel vice.

I swap muzzle devices on my .22s all the time... flash hiders, shrouds and sound suppressor... All I do is just hand tighten. Takes just a second on and off. No need to super glue or super torque this stuff unless someone just wants aggravation. (Though I have no muzzle devices that require timing).

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 01-14-2011 at 06:31 PM.
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  #37  
Old 01-14-2011, 06:34 PM
Brett248Vista Brett248Vista is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post

Or use thread locker on the flash hider or barrel nut and then later try to remove it by muscling it off without a barrel vice.
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  #38  
Old 01-14-2011, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
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Give yourself a break my friend... Like they say.... Stuff Happens. I've done MUCH worse.
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