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Old 02-06-2011, 11:51 PM
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so like many who have come here i was introduced to the mp15-22 by a friend who heard me mention i was looking for a .22 to be able to fire at the range without worrying about the higher cost of my pistol ammo.

why im looking at this purchase - I want something thats cheap to shoot - and though i know i can burn a hole in the bank with the 'extras' - the base price seems to be very inexpensive. i am looking for something to mainly shoot at the range (indoor and outdoor). i dont hunt and think i would grab one of the handguns first for home defense (though this would look awfully intimidating imho).

ive been reading through threads and hope to get some questions answered to see if the money burning a hole in my pocket should be spent.

1) from what ive read online, the biggest complaint seems to be not enough mags for ammo because theyre so much fun to shoot. so what are the major issues there are with these?

2) many different guns can be picky with ammo - are most of the major brands of ammo weeded out as to what works and what doesnt work?

3) my 11 yr old son wants to learn how to shoot a rifle. the average person wouldnt think twice if you brought out a .22 crickett rifle - but is this one that you would teach youth on?

4) jets guns seems to currently have the best deal online - $392 for w/o a1 style comp and 25 round mags.. anyone else to consider?

5) besides scouring the forum - anything else i should know?
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Old 02-06-2011, 11:51 PM
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thanks in advance for any and all help
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Old 02-07-2011, 12:25 AM
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stoopid me,,...

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Old 02-07-2011, 01:01 AM
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I think this is a great rifle, personally. For me, it is the blaster range rifle that is a ton of fun. I have grinned every trigger pull, as rapid as they may be. It sure is cheap to shoot.

That said, I'm not sure this is a rifle I would train a child with. Two reasons I say that. First, I don't personally feel the rifle holds enough accuracy, for much more than plinking. Also, if you load much tension up on the forend, your groups shift point of impact. Again, not an issue in a fun gun, but for a trainer, I would rather something more accurate that isn't as sensitive to forend flex. Second, I really like to start a person on a bolt rifle. I think it sets a pace that is more likely to stress the fundamentals rather than how fast you can squeeze a trigger. For me, I would take one of the Savage heavy barreled rifles with one of their laminate stocks as a great first rifle. Accurate and with just a little effort to make sure the stock is floated, it will shoot to the same point from a bipod or standing offhand.

There are certainly worse options to start someone with, but I think for similar money, there are much better options as well. In my opinion, the 15-22 makes a great second or third .22lr but probably wouldn't be my pick as a do all single rimfire.
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:25 AM
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im gonna go ahead and say this is probably perfect for what you want. I love going to the range knowing i can blow away 500 rounds and and only spend about $20 bucks on ammo. Meanwhile my friends with their. 40 and .45 pistols will spend that on just about 50 rounds. all in all its about 10x cheaper on average than pistol ammo. same for .223 and .308. concern #1 & #2 can be solved looking at the notable thread index, #3 yes, and #4 i got mine from jetguns and they are were super easy to deal with, and easy to reach by phone if necessary.
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It is generally considered among instructors that a moderately-priced bolt-action .22 with good iron sights is most suitable for teaching fundamentals of rifle shooting to beginners, without all the complicaiton of a semi-auto, and avoiding the natural temptation to yank the trigger as fast as possible and spray the shots.
Marksmanship is best learned at first one shot at a time.
while that may be valid, its not a reason to avoid this gun. its like forcing yourself to start driving on a 30 year old car with 40 horsepower instead of a newer model with a moderate 150hp. this gun is no 600hp ferrari. Either way it will take time and patience to learn. for those people with self-control issues that need to be forced to shoot slowly...well they shouldn't be around guns anyway.

Last edited by grimreaper21; 02-07-2011 at 02:32 AM.
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Old 02-07-2011, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
It is generally considered among instructors that a moderately-priced bolt-action .22 with good iron sights is most suitable for teaching fundamentals of rifle shooting to beginners, without all the complication of a semi-auto, and avoiding the natural temptation to yank the trigger as fast as possible and spray the shots.
Marksmanship is best learned at first one shot at a time.
- Concur, however, I've trained Basic Rifle Marksmanship to hundreds of soldiers, (most just 6 or 7 years older than your son) using this same platform (but in 5.56 obviously). These young folks have the same lack of impulse control as a younger person your son's age. A vast majority of these individuals leave Basic Training with solid marksmanship fundamentals and a successful qualification score. And...a large number of these kids didn't have the benefit of a parent who taught them from an early age either impulse control or marksmanship fundamentals.

You are the most important factor in this decision. As long as you teach him the correct fundamentals and provide a positive role model for him while you shoot together, the firearm choice loses it's significance.

Another thing to consider, what choice of firearms 'jazz' him up to shoot? Select something that he enjoys shooting, something that is 'exciting' or 'cool' and will keep him interested over time, whatever that may be.

That is why I also concur with grimreaper21's point.

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while that may be valid, its not a reason to avoid this gun.

Last edited by CPTBeaker; 02-07-2011 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:07 AM
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Skip the bolt action rifle unless you can borrow or already have one in the back of the closet.

The problem with teaching basic rifle marksmanship with a bolt action rifle is the training only takes a few days to learn sight alignment and trigger press after which the rifle is "obsolete" and will remain in the rack for eons until the next generation of new shooter appears. They still sell a lot of bolt action rifles, but I've never used one off the range.

This same sight/trigger training can be easily accomplished with a BB gun in the basement or backyard and a transition to firearms made easily at the range. Sight alignment and trigger press is sight alignment and trigger press.

In this same way the M&P15-22 serves as a low cost trainer for the full caliber M16/M4 with only minor differences in magazine loading. And it need not be expensively "accessorized" to accomplish this function.

-- Chuck
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Old 02-07-2011, 08:33 AM
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though it may be a pain to do -i had thought to do like when we introduce someone (adult) to a new semi-auto rifle - and thats to load 1 round at a time.

also reading through threads - why do some ask for the first 3 letters of the serial number? is there one to stay away from - are there some that have issues fixed??

thanks for the info
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:07 AM
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Its my personnel opinion that an MP15-22 might be a poor choice for a first time training rifle for two basic reasons.
1) Bolt guns teach better marksmanship and trigger control than nearly any semi-auto. The idea is to hit the target constantly with each round, not knock it down by sheer weight of lead.
2) The MP15-22 has a "flaw" in that the majority of the magazines for it are very long, even if they are limited to 10 rounds. So they are harder to use when shooting over sandbags on a bench and worse from a prone position. This would be especially true for a younger person who hasn't reached his full adult size yet.

Not to be a party poopper, and I know that this is a S&W web site, but I would say a Ruger 77/22 might be a better choice for a beginners rifle. It may be a bit more expensive than a Savage.
But its a rifle that he's unlikely to outgrow, is a well built, relatively accurate, and couldn't give a rat's rear end what brand of ammo its fed, as far as functioning goes.

Chuck s,
I don't know about you, but I own a fair number of .22's and when I'm out in the field hunting I will more often than not pick my Remington 541S (bolt gun) over all my other rifles. They are all more accurate than I am off a sandbag, but I like the way it can consistently put bullet after bullet through the same hole all day long.
So why not use a gun that can do the job with the first round every round?
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:54 AM
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as a note - the teaching of my son to fire this gun is not my primary reason for buying it. think of it as an added bonus to the wife as to why im bringing something else into the house
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:54 AM
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I agree with Grimreaper21. Training is paramount in shooting, regardless of the gun. I think the 15-22 out of the box is a great place to start. It's light and adjustable which is a plus for youth, and it can grow with them in their shooting experience. As for mags. I love to shoot this but don't mind stopping to reload once in awhile. Smith and Wesson also has the short 10 round mags available. During the reloading process, discussion on what just happened during live fire would be a good thing. Use the time to analyze technique, trigger control, etc. Also, limiting the number of rounds loaded is a good training tool. So I guess I would choose the 15-22 over the cricket. Hope this helps.
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Old 02-07-2011, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Citoriplus View Post

I don't know about you, but I own a fair number of .22's and when I'm out in the field hunting I will more often than not pick my Remington 541S (bolt gun) over all my other rifles. They are all more accurate than I am off a sandbag, but I like the way it can consistently put bullet after bullet through the same hole all day long.
So why not use a gun that can do the job with the first round every round?
I think Chuck nailed it.

As far as why not use a bolt gun to shoot off sandbags to consistently put bullets through the same hole on paper all day long: There is no reason that I can think of. The bolt gun is a perfect choice for that. That said, that's not the job of my 15-22. The job of my 15-22 is to hold a lot of ammo; hold a lot of accessories, and for me to hold the rifle and shoot it off hand at soda cans and stuff. We have a lot of ranges at rifle club, all kept perfectly groomed and immaculate, but here is the Plinking Range which begs for a 15-22.

The steel plate is a bit further than 50 yards and the upper goes out to about 80 yards. It is fun to double tap left then right on side by side steel, and chasing soda cans around is simply a blast. Now try to have fun at the Plinking Range with a bolt gun.... ya just gotta have a Plinking Range to properly enjoy the 15-22.


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Old 02-07-2011, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Citoriplus View Post
2) The MP15-22 has a "flaw" in that the majority of the magazines for it are very long, even if they are limited to 10 rounds. So they are harder to use when shooting over sandbags on a bench and worse from a prone position. This would be especially true for a younger person who hasn't reached his full adult size yet.
What?

Product: M&P15-.22 10 RD Magazine





Notice the magazines...



As far as accuracy goes, see this link: Link

@ 100yds



There is absolutely nothing wrong with selecting this rifle.

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Old 02-07-2011, 12:48 PM
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I can only give my opinion to one part of your questions. I don't have kids, but went with neighbor and his 3 yesterday (2 girls, one boy, all grouped around your kids age). They are all small in build and REALLY took to the ability to shorten the stock on my 15-22. Also, I have a red dot sight and they shot really well with that. A couple times they had to be told to make each shot count, not blast away, but that is what adults are there for. If you don't get a S&W, then Marlin in both bolt and semi auto seemed the most highly regarded for great accuracy right out of the box and for not much money at all.
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Old 02-07-2011, 06:37 PM
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Is the issue one of feeling weird about having your child's introduction to firearms be in the shape of an "assault rifle"? If so, I can understand your apprehension about it, maybe feeling like it's the equivalent of giving your sixteen year old a Corvette as their first car, even if it's only a corvette in looks, it can appear inappropriate, but this is a great rifle that will serve as both a learning platform for all involved and a source of fun as well. Gun safety and responsibly is something that transcends the type of firearm you are using, so let people make funny faces. The point is practicing proper firearm safety while being able to enjoy the activity, regardless of platform.
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:01 PM
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Is the issue one of feeling weird about having your child's introduction to firearms be in the shape of an "assault rifle"? If so, I can understand your apprehension about it, maybe feeling like it's the equivalent of giving your sixteen year old a Corvette as their first car, even if it's only a corvette in looks, it can appear inappropriate, but this is a great rifle that will serve as both a learning platform for all involved and a source of fun as well. Gun safety and responsibly is something that transcends the type of firearm you are using, so let people make funny faces. The point is practicing proper firearm safety while being able to enjoy the activity, regardless of platform.
yes - here is the most important point. i am not getting this solely for my son to shoot.

first and foremost - this is daddy's gun lol... if its a good platform for him to learn and expand his shooting skills that a bonus. with my wife and i going to the range more often, i would rather his gun curiosity be solved at the range with good instruction than with his friends, or by himself at some house.

im sure when he first shoots it - we will be shooting 1 round at a time in the magazine. once we are both comfortable with his abilities with this gun, then we will add more ammunition. this will be his first .22 shooting experience, but (thanks to his range experience in scouts) he already has been introduced to safety on the range. thanks to us, he has been introduced to safety in the home. thanks to video games - he will likely be a better shot than any of us
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:12 PM
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Then you need to "daddy" on down to the gun store and pick one up! lol! You won't regret it...
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:46 PM
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went there today - theyre out and dont know when they will be getting more in.

i do have 2 questions.

1) why are people asking for the first 3 of the serial numbers when talking about problems?

2) would you get the one without the threaded barrel with the compensator (A1 comp iirc)? the A1 comp model seems to be out wherever im looking, so i would think the answer is i want it.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:57 PM
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[QUOTE=some_guy;135817357]went there today - theyre out and dont know when they will be getting more in.

i do have 2 questions.

1) why are people asking for the first 3 of the serial numbers when talking about problems?

Because somewhere at the end of the DT serial number series (DTZ as I recall) S&W made some production changes to correct some problems some of the earlier guns were having. The primary way to tell if the new production mods are in the gun is if it has blue springs. (The blue does wear off after a number of cleaning from what I hear.) I have a DTX (didn't come with blue springs) that is rock solid. About a third of the earlier series had problems.
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:08 PM
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Reading this I've heard very good reasons to use the 15-22 that I totally agree with and I've trained many young people to shoot.. with that said I think the 15-22 platform is the perfect starter rifle for the same reason the U.S. military does.. How many rifles out there can you adjust the rifle to about any sized person. There isn't many and with exception of a few very high end bolt guns with custom stocks you won't find many that can be used by a full grown man and a child easily.

The 15-22 is a great platform to start with for a child or an adult simple because they fit about anyone. And lord help me cause I don't give a **** about what the media or the dem. think about me or my child or anyone else shooting a "machine gun looking rifle" oh my god, people need to grow up its a 22 semi auto rifle nothing more. Buy one and enjoy it.

Buy a 10 rd mag and fill it up lay the gun in sand bags to start with so he has nothing to master but trigger control and sight pic. If the rifle never leaves the bags you don't have to worry about how many rds are still in it cause its in a safe dirrection. How to handle a rifle can be taught in the basement or living room with a toy gun, bb gun, or even the 15-22(make sure you use a chamber flag so everyone knows its unloaded) To be honest the range is no place to teach the extreme basics with live ammo. That needs to be done before the range visit.

The 15-22 is an extremely fun rifle and will keep him interested way longer than a bolt gun.. and yes I own a lot of rimfires and yeas several are bolt actions and yes the 15-22 gets fired more than the rest put together
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:56 PM
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well i am sold on this - if i cant find it local - there is a large gun show in the Tampa area the first weekend in March - i will surely find it there.
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:41 AM
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You can always order from an online vender and have them ship to your local FFL. I was unable to find one locally and ended up ordering from Bud's.
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:14 AM
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You can always order from an online vender and have them ship to your local FFL. I was unable to find one locally and ended up ordering from Bud's.
yes - i need to find a cheaper FFL. if i ordered from buds - and paid the FFL - its slightly more than getting the LGS to get it. granted they charge something like 50 so i may wait until march,,,
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:08 AM
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Here is a link to the M&P22 pistol I mentiod in the PM
M&P .22 PISTOL
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:28 AM
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As Hillary would say, "I mispoke." I have used a bolt action off the range, but it was long, long ago.

This is my "eastern woods deer rifle." Someone had this cut down, probably before WW2. .30Army (AKA .30-40). It co-existed alongside a Winchester 94 (.32 Win Spec).



-- Chuck
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:43 AM
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As Hillary would say, "I mispoke." I have used a bolt action off the range, but it was long, long ago.

This is my "eastern woods deer rifle." Someone had this cut down, probably before WW2. .30Army (AKA .30-40). It co-existed alongside a Winchester 94 (.32 Win Spec).



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Old 02-10-2011, 11:43 AM
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im in a dongerous spot now. my wife has developed an interest in guns and is telling me that she enjoys shooting and wouldnt mind if we had some more. umm sure honey - whatever you say... twist my arm.
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:48 AM
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Here is a link to the M&P22 pistol I mentiod in the PM
M&P .22 PISTOL
i like that a lot. being new to shooting with live ammo (she shot a 357 ruger with blanks as part of a disney show), my wife wants something in a .22 pistol thats more like her current gun -but cheaper to shoot than 9mm... and that one fits the bill better than some others that are just kind-of close to her current gun.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:06 PM
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As Hillary would say, "I mispoke." I have used a bolt action off the range, but it was long, long ago.

This is my "eastern woods deer rifle." Someone had this cut down, probably before WW2. .30Army (AKA .30-40). It co-existed alongside a Winchester 94 (.32 Win Spec).



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