I did another video this one is on like the title says fixing the trigger creep I had a lot of fun doing this mod

YouTube - How to fix the trigger creep in your M&P 15-22

Great info! I will be doing this very soon.

I would argue it is eliminating creep. On a single stage trigger such as this, all movement of the trigger is a movement in the sear/trigger interface. It has to be, as the trigger and sear are in contact at all times. There is no set stage of pretravel before you get to a firm second stage that you would reduce creep. There is no wall of force that separates pretravel from creep. As such, once in position, all movement in the trigger prior to the breaking of the shot is on the same questionable level. It isn't like a good two stage where the early take up is distinct from the final breaking of the sear. This wouldn't make for a smoother trigger break, but it sure does remove creep.

Even if we could determine the specific point where it switches from pretravel to creep, this mod influences creep as well. Turn off the safety, cock the rifle (empty of course), and tighten the set screw until the rifle fires. Back the screw off a hair. Know what you did? You adjusted the amount of contact the sear and the trigger have with eachother. This would be reducing creep. You may have to modify the safety to work at this level, but it is directly removing sear engagement, which is termed creep.

AR-15/M16 DROP-IN TRIGGER ADJUSTER
Mfr:J&L RESEARCH Price:$44.20 Status:In Stock
Helps Make A Crisp, Easy-Breaking Factory Trigger
Trigger adjuster replaces the factory grip screw to reduce trigger creep, lessen pull weight, and improve hammer break for better accuracy. Use alone or as part of a complete trigger job.

Well thanks for all the bashing guys good job heres a sucker If you don't agree will it I have an easy fix don't do it I read up on this and after seeing one of the biggest hunting supply stores in the world have a product that says it "takes the creep out of the ar 15 trigger " I figure it was safe and after reading in other forums about how good it works whats the harm?

Well Terry, you and I are in the same boat. I have read every bit of info. pertaining to this subject that I can find and other than here, the set-screw idea has been well received. Like Terry said, if you don't like it, please don't do it. Regardless of what you call it, it does take up that little bit of travel to the safety. I can't believe that if you leave it at that point, the gun would be any more un-safe than if you left it out and pulled the trigger to the safety stop. The gun doesn't and shouldn't fire at that point. I have tried everything to get the gun to AD with this mod. and haven't had a one.
I really don't think Brownell's would sell a known un-safe device. There's a guy on Snipershide that makes them out of allen bolts for $20+shipping but other than if you would want to experiment a lot and didn't want to take the grip screw out each time, the allen screw should work fine.
I promise to be honest about this mod. and if, like I said previously, the gun mis-behaves at all, I will report it and remove the mod.
I just target shoot at the moment so my range enviroment is well controlled so as to eliminate any chance of accidentally shooting someone or something if the gun goes off by itself. I always have the safety on and muzzle down range before I drop the bolt and until I've shot several hundred rounds through it, I'm keeping the mag with just 5 rounds in it.
Hobie

Im with you hobie I am going to shoot atleast 500 rounds today I am new to the mod and never feild tested it and any problems come about I will tell everyone I am a big safty person and would never do a mod without a lot of homework I'll shoot a video today wanted to because I got a new scope anyway so I will make my findings known. Down the road if I ever have an isuue with any mod I do you guys will be the first to know .

I got to go out to my range(almost got stuck)and ran 100 rounds of mini-mag through the rifle. Other than the trigger feeling even better, there were no aberrations so far. I rapid fired and it was fun!
Film at 11.....

good vid thanks for posting.

Thanks man I really enjoy doing it I ran 300 rds thru mine today worked great i t was really windy so I didnt do a video like I promised but if its nice tomorow I will show you guys my new scope in action

thanks man!

Just need to find the right little bolt, we have the metric system, so i hope i can

6mm x .907mm thread spacing x 6mm Just tell the hardware guy this it should get you right around where you need to be Pm Belt _fed or tacticool22 they would def. know the size

I have a few extras 1/4-28 x 1/4 knurled cup point


Sorry Folks,ran out of set screws









Sorry Folks, ran out of set screws



Pm me if your interested . Send me a SASE and I will send you out one.

great post. Goin to do both to mine. I did how ever find a sight were some one said not to do the trigger job. this was on a 223 or a 308 i think. it was cool were he was and the hamer would not hit the primmer hard enough to make it fire. He stated that he had his gun this way for 10 years prior to the mod and this was the first issue. that once it warmed up the bun was able to fire again. would i be better off buying a set of yellow springs for this mod??

When I did this, the grip screw pushed up the set screw so I had to go with a shorter grip screw. Anyone else have this problem?

(It's a DUU serial MOE...)

Rob

whoops my mistake

Doing this mod on 3 mp15-22s right now. This mod is done on lots of AR-15 with great results.

It is safe. Just bump test the gun and make sure your saftey lever still works correctly.

If you dont like it your only out $1 at the most and just remove the screw lol.

This should be one of the first mods you do IMO.

Prepare yourselves. On this board, it's a touchy subject. I know through experience.

Happy New Year!

Hobie

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FYI Ace Hardware carries these screws. $.40 i think. Just got two today and did the mod on my 15-22. took like 3 mins.

I did this on Wednesday night with a screw from Ace. Mine was 53 cents. Got out to a rural property yesterday with a friend and shot several hundred rounds. The video shows "backing out" the screw until the trigger works properly (dry fired), but even then (for me), it didn't "re-set" properly after the actual shot left the rifle. Several times I had to eject the round, drop the magazine, and start over. It required a little more adjustment to get to that point, and was great from that point on. It's not a significant improvement, but for what it costs, and how easy it is to do, I think it's still worth doing.

Believe it or not....

But a guy on a popular Dutch gunforum picked this thread up. He ordered a 100 of these screws in the US.

And generously gave them away. Through him I had the screw before my leadspitter.
I immediately did this simple modification.

No regrets what so ever.

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Writing from Holland, Europe

Not sure how I missed this idiotic and dangerous modification back in February!

The "sear" on the M16/AR15 trigger is the tip of the trigger bar and it engages in a notch in the hammer. It is moving every time you move the trigger.

If you do this modification all you're doing is keeping the sear from fully engaging. You're literally pulling the trigger part way with the set screw. All the time. Yeah it makes the trigger easier to pull. The sear is not fully engaged.

Those who do this should post their addresses so the rest of us can avoid the area.

-- Chuck

Very strange indeed, if adjusting the trigger sear engagement depth is so dangerous I wonder why those highly regarded JP triggers not only come with a set screw to adjust trigger sear engagement depth but they also tell the installer how to adjust the sear engagement using that outrageously dangerous set screw.


jptrigger_part1

Nice. Eloquent also.

Here's a link to a bunch of nasty stuff.. http://tinyurl.com/79nvj5q

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And so it goes.....

Attached Images

dead horse.jpg (7.2 KB, 75 views)

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I've tried a system on one of my full size AR15. I polished the contact face of the hammer and trigger release, using rubbing compound and a dremel with a rotary soft wheel. It just cleaned up the two contacting points. The break seems smoother. I don't have a tool to measure the pull, still looking for an affordable one. I won't take a file to it cause that may change the hardness of the surface of the trigger. You may want to give that a go.

Ever heard of an adjustable trigger??? I guess not. Can you post your address? I prefer not to shoot in the area of people who bash others on subjects they apparently know nothing about.

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i did this mod.. turned out great until i shot myself in the face..... twice...

Okay guys, just my two cents, I did this mod and had to remove it after finding a serious safety issue with my particular 15-22. The disconnector and hammer strike each other just past the point that the trigger resets, slowing the action and causing possible wear and damage to the rifle. I found the issue shortly after completing the mod. It might make the trigger feel great, but get a magnifying glass, remove the upper and operate the trigger. With good lighting and a good eye, you might see exactly what I saw. After my original post on what I found, I had several PM's from members finding the same exact issue with their guns. It can easily go unnoticed if you don't do a careful examination of the operation. This is what real gunsmiths do when they modify an existing design. The answer is a drop in trigger or a set of JP Springs. Not a golden screw driver which I own a complete set of. I just decided to take a closer look this time after being warned of possible malfunctions.

As for "Ever heard of an adjustable trigger?" The answer is yes....built by experienced gunsmith's and highly insured manufacturers. When I was a kid, I was out with a bunch of neighborhood kids plinking with our BB guns. I was standing around BS'ing and tapping the butt of the gun on the ground. Next thing I know, the gun fired and ricocheted off of an oak tree limb and struck another kid in the face. It wasn't fun when when another kid's Police Officer Daddy put me in cuffs and locked me behind the cage of his police car. It sucked even more when my parents beat the hell out of me for not practicing safe gun handling and they had to pay the hospital bills for the kid I shot.

There are some Know It All A-Holes on this forum, but it was one of those A-Holes who convinced me to take a closer look at my weapon and maybe saved me an Involuntary Manslaughter Charge down the road!

Could you please post a picture or a drawing of this issue for the noobies like me and benefit of others??
I would like to know.
Thanks

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Honestly it sounds as some know to much and some not enough. With what ever trigger you install or trigger mod you do you bump check the rifle.

I also would like to see what damage this could cause if you could post up pics. I have looked closley and dont see anything. I also dont know everything either and am willing to learn from those that can provide proof of their claim.

Here it is for all to see. Let me see if I can clarify this. The first picture is the normal position of the hammer and disconnect and they are spaced apart when cocked. If you push the hammer down while cocked, the two do not touch. When trigger creep is removed, at least in my rifle, removing the creep resulted in the hammer and disconnect to overlap slightly causing the two to strike one another when the weapon is cocked. These two surfaces are not meant to strike one another to the point where they can hang and cause damage and/or misfires. From my limited knowledge, if you hold the trigger down, the bottom piece catches the hammer and keeps it from firing again until the trigger is released and pulled for the next shot. Hence Semi-Automatic. If the bottom piece wears and fails to catch the hammer while the trigger is still pressed, it could result in an unintended multiple round discharge. I might be wrong, but that is how it was described to me. Please excuse the dirty trigger, guess I haven't cleaned her up in a while. In my case, removing the trigger play results were bad. From others I have talked, they too found these parts making contact and hanging from time to time and causing abnormal wear and tear. Check it out for yourself. Take the play out of the trigger, push the hammer up and down with your finger and see if the two are making contact. In a normal cocked position, they will not. With the play removed, they might. If you don't mind replacing the worn trigger or it failing unexpectedly, have at it.

Attached Images

	ScreenHunter_01 Jan. 02 14.37.jpg (52.5 KB, 243 views)
	ScreenHunter_02 Jan. 02 14.38.jpg (30.4 KB, 234 views)

Thanks so much for the info Unit505.
Now, I can decide to do it or not.
Safety first.

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And thats how its done folks. Thanks Unit 505.

Not a problem! Safe Shooting!

This isn't a new problem or even specific to the S&W 15-22.

I have seen it happen on a couple of 15-22's as well a few AR/M4's with military triggers.

It's not a big issue nor one of big concern.

You don't even have to look closely to see the issue as you can feel the hammer secondary sear tip touch the disconnecter sear tip by simply moving the hammer.

In any case there are a few ways to address it:

-The first is to simply remove set screw & go back to the production long creepy trigger pull. (this is probably the best approach for people with little gun smithing background or poor mechanical skills)

-Another way is to install a different hammer and or different disconnecter or a high dollar aftermarket trigger.

-The simplest way to handle the hammer ticking the disconnecter is to simply back the set screw out a bit at a time until the hammer doesn't tick the disconnecter anymore. This will leave a bit longer trigger pull than best possible but still substantially shorter & smoother than stock.

-From here on a person needs to understand the possible consequences of each move & possibly inspect the parts more often & do a trigger group safety test on a regular basis.

-I have an M-4 that had this problem so I just used a stone & re-worked the disconnecter sear tip just enough to allow the set screw to give me best trigger pull but still pass ALL trigger group safety tests. I also inspect the disconnecter at every thorough gun cleaning. So far (probably close to 10,000 rounds) I see no additional sear disconnecter wear in the reworked tip area.

My first 15-22 didn't have the disconnecter to hammer contact problem but when I sent it in for accuracy repair it came back with new trigger & hammer parts that did have the contact problem noted in the posts above. On this one I simply backed the set screw out a bit to allow light sear disconnecter to hammer tip contact & shot the gun. I'm a bit over 5,000 round through the gun now & the contact is almost gone when cycling the hammer by hand. I presume the set screw could be turned in a bit more now then allow the contact to be a bit more so that it slowly wears away the very tip of the contact area. This gun does now & always has passed my very strict trigger group integrity testing as well as a dropped gun & butt bump test.

I guess bottom line here is: if your particular gun has the disconnecter to hammer contact with the set screw adjusted to best trigger pull then just back the set screw out a bit until the contact goes away. If that leaves you a better, shorter, smoother trigger pull than stock then leave it be. If adjusting the set screw out until no contact leaves you a trigger pull you still can't live with then you will have to find a way to address the problem within your gun smithing ability & your mechanical ability.

Above all, (if) you mess with your trigger in any way or form then find & strictly adhere to a thorough trigger group testing & safety function test at regular intervals.

Wolverine, could you please explain how you do this???
"...trigger group integrity testing as well as a dropped gun & butt bump test".
I am stating the obvious, no ammo or loaded gun for the testing.

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Wolverine posted in part: "My first 15-22 didn't have the disconnecter to hammer contact problem but when I sent it in for accuracy repair it came back with new trigger & hammer parts that did have the contact problem noted in the posts above."

Who did you send the gun to? I would presume S&W but would like clarification. Did you leave the set-screw in place when you sent the gun to be repaired? If so, now my curiosity is piqued as I would of hoped that S&W would of removed it and remarked about the set-screw being un-safe, messes with the warranty blah blah.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Hobie

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Afternoon Hobie

Sent to S&W.

I did remove the set screw as well as aftermarket grip & stock. I did leave the lightened trigger & hammer spring in the gun as well as the polished trigger/hammer sear areas.

No note came back with the gun (including what was repaired). I get the impression by looking at the parts that I can tell for sure they replaced that it wasn't even test fired or looked at in detail before repair.

As far as I can tell, new barrel, new bolt & bolt group assembly, new trigger, new hammer, new safety, & new heavier (than original) hammer spring as well as new trigger & hammer pins.

The sights were way off on the received gun so I seriously doubt it was shot for anything except functionality before return.

Afternoon Red Baron

Not easily as a good comprehensive AR/M4 trigger group integrity & safety test is quite complex & would take me writing a novel to cover all the possibilities.

My suggestion is to Google AR or M4 trigger safety testing or other derivatives of AR trigger safety inspection then take what you learn & develop your own trigger group testing procedure that you can trust to ASSURE your trigger group integrity is up to the standards you require for peace of mind.

Hopefully others will have better success with backing out the set screw. When I got the sear and trigger to clear one another, I had not removed any of the pre-travel. I have seen some posts here where pre-travel was almost no existent on some 15-22's. I guess the differences in form and function might come from the manufacturing process. As wolverine stated, he's seen the issue on some guns and not at all on others. For me, if I gained no reduction in pre-travel without modifying parts, it's just a trigger that I have to learn to love. I still want to install the the JP Extended Reliability Spring Kit, but for now, everyone who has shot my 15-22 has loved the trigger with no more than the polishing that I performed. I'm not a gunsmith, and my abilities are limited. I polish all of my triggers groups and pretty much learn to enjoy it from there.

One thing that I think helps is using a very good moly based grease in the sear area per J-P's advice. They speak of Rydol, which I believe contains moly. Moly is great as it imbeds itself and can run cleanly.

Hobie

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This thread answered ALL my questions and concerns pertaining to this mod. I did this with my m&p 15/22 and luckily performed the entire process with the upper off. I noticed the hammer and disconnect rubbing together when i pushed down the hammer but didnt think much of it. When I put the upper back on and cocked it it just didnt feel right so I checked it out. I could see a slight amount of wear between where the hammer and disconnect touched so I decided to back out the set screw. I also had to put washers on the grip screw right behind the lock washer in order not to offset the set screw. Have not field tested it yet will report back soon. As for my particular 15/22 the creep was in fact reduced but not by that much compared to the grip screw.

Thanks so much to all that provided such detailed and helpful information. Great to know there people willing to solve your firearm issues just a click away

i just insatlled the set screw and it worked get, when i reattached the pistol grip which is a blackhawk ergonomics. the grip now fells lose i think i might have tightened it too thight and now it's lose does any have a remedy im think teflon tape. [