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  #1  
Old 02-24-2011, 11:41 PM
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Default Maximum effective range...

Today Crispysqrl and I decided to shoot for distance to see how far we could nail targets....we ended up hitting sheets of paper (8.5 x 11) at over 230 yards!!..10-15knt variable winds.....I honestly was not sure if that was possible out of the 15-22(running CCI Blazer) but suprisingly it did well. pics on the way....


....SO lets hear it....what kind of range is everyone seeing?...
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Old 02-24-2011, 11:51 PM
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Try this with your 230 yard sheet of paper: 4 shots, with the last being in the air before the first one hits.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:05 AM
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How many rounds did you fire at that range and target, and how many actually hit?
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon88 View Post
How many rounds did you fire at that range and target, and how many actually hit?
first few were way off as we were zeroing in.....after finding zero we were able to hit about half on the target....shot about 30 rounds....I blame some of the flyers on wind....maybe ammo too....we will be trying again with calmer winds and different ammos...
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:15 AM
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This isn't based on my own experience, but since buying this gun I've wondered about the range and lethality of the .22. A lot of people, at first thought, see it as a weak round. But I think it is a rather versatile and potentially lethal round.

Maybe this is old news to you guys, but I read this posting by a guy who shot a 22 at a frozen turkey wrapped in three layers of street cloths at a range of 250 and I think also 300 yards. All rounds that hit, penetrated through everything.

Here is the link: Lethality of the 22LR- Results! - Sniper's Hide Forums

There is also these two videos of a guy shooting rock hard avocados at a range of 225 yards:
Pt 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CElxKOv8iPc
Pt 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43ZeycTo7iI

Last edited by PainterlyShotgroup; 02-25-2011 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:28 AM
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Saying the 22lr is "lethal", on a specific target, at 300 yards is a gross overestimate. Shooting at a far target with a 22 just to see if you can do it is fun, just leave it at that and don't exaggerate the cartridges capabilities.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon88 View Post
Saying the 22lr is "lethal", on a specific target, at 300 yards is a gross overestimate. Shooting at a far target with a 22 just to see if you can do it is fun, just leave it at that and don't exaggerate the cartridges capabilities.
Don't be insulted but did you read that posting? It is pretty interesting.

World English Dictionary
lethal (ˈliːθəl)

adj
1. able to cause or causing death

So the question is, is the .22 "able" to cause death at that range?
Based on that one guys experiment I'd say yes. Not that I'd choose a .22 for that far of a shot or to kill anything at that range. I just thought that his findings were interesting and bringing of a new respect for the round.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:43 AM
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That's why I said lethal on a specific target. The bare minimum energy may be there, just like a falling icicle or a BB could be lethal in the right situation. But 300 yards is well beyond the maximum effective range of 22lr, even if it is within it's maximum range.
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
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That's why I said lethal on a specific target. The bare minimum energy may be there, just like a falling icicle or a BB could be lethal in the right situation. But 300 yards is well beyond the maximum effective range of 22lr, even if it is within it's maximum range.
I hear ya and it makes sense. Ballistics are really beyond me. I just know it's been a hot topic for people on a lot of survival boards as to "which gun would you take if S.H.T.F. "

And when talking about range, is it really a matter of the gun you are using or the cartridge? I would think the cartridge/powder load and bullet weight...right?
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Old 02-25-2011, 01:08 AM
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the 15-22 is a fantastic rifle...but...it's NOT a ar15....not even close...
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Old 02-25-2011, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyb View Post
the 15-22 is a fantastic rifle...but...it's NOT a ar15....not even close...
actually its very close but its still not a ar-15 lol
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PainterlyShotgroup View Post
I hear ya and it makes sense. Ballistics are really beyond me. I just know it's been a hot topic for people on a lot of survival boards as to "which gun would you take if S.H.T.F. "

And when talking about range, is it really a matter of the gun you are using or the cartridge? I would think the cartridge/powder load and bullet weight...right?
Both are very critical at long ranges. Correct cartridge choice, good ammo, and a good rifle to shoot it.

A 22 rifle is still quite a good choice for a survival gun, precisely for it's low energy. You can shoot small game without damaging too much meat. And remember, a silenced 22 rifle is your #1 choice when the zombiepocalypse comes.
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Old 02-25-2011, 09:06 AM
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I do my own suppressors, been building and using them for years, used them in the military, used them in combat, used them on "other occaisions" while in military service, and use them now mostly for my own shooting hobby but have made a few custom's for LE agencies at times. Have even on a few occaisions had a chance to use them in my present LE career.

A lot of these are for .22, some for 5.56, some for 7.62. Having about 29.5 years of experience with testing, selecting, and using, various weapons platforms for and in the military/government/civilian LE, and also being a qualified sniper, I can tell you for a fact, despite what anyone tells you, that the .22 inside of a 300 yard range without suppressor, and inside a 200 yard range with suppressor, can be one of the most lethal rounds there is if employed properly and from the correct platform by a competent sniper or marksman. A lot of people don't realize that, but careful selection of platform and matching ammo is key. A lot of people think that at 200 to 300 yards the lowly little .22 kinda stops working, it doesn't. For soft tissue, maximum range and effective range kinda blur together inside of 300 yards for the .22 and either have no effect on the lethality of the .22 if it reaches its target by the hand of a competent sniper or marksman. I'm not talking about paper shooters either just lobbing rounds at a paper target, i'm talking about people who can tell you before the shot, for example, "the round will impact 1.2 inches below the center of the.....at an angle of 22.3 degrees....and penetrate 3.06 inches deep." and when you go look and measure you find they were 100% correct, these are not center mass shooters.

Last edited by Foxtrot; 03-01-2011 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 02-25-2011, 09:42 AM
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YouTube - M&P 15-22 300 yards.
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr1endlyF1re View Post
pointless video, can just as well shoot out to 600m or straight up into the sky..... without detailed accuracy measurements/results.
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:55 PM
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I drop full sized deer with solid points up to 50 yds quite often. Aiming point is the heart from the side. I have had them drop dead in their tracks so it does penetrate sufficiently. Some have run but not out of my back yard. I used to use .223 but the .22lr does the job with much less noise to disturb the neighbors. It can be used as a survival round.
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:55 PM
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I read the posting and was actually not so surprised.
In my career I have seen quite a few fatal .22 shootings.
I'd not make it my 1st or even 2nd choice for self defense but properly
placed it would be quite effective..IMHO.
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenpofan View Post
I read the posting and was actually not so surprised.
In my career I have seen quite a few fatal .22 shootings.
I'd not make it my 1st or even 2nd choice for self defense but properly
placed it would be quite effective..IMHO.
It's really interesting right? I've also heard the .17hmr will penetrate kevlar...

Anyway, Boostcrzy, I apologize. I didn't mean to steer your thread in a different direction. I just thought the info that one guy found out was interesting and somewhat relevant to this thread...
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
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I drop full sized deer with solid points up to 50 yds quite often. Aiming point is the heart from the side. I have had them drop dead in their tracks so it does penetrate sufficiently. Some have run but not out of my back yard. I used to use .223 but the .22lr does the job with much less noise to disturb the neighbors. It can be used as a survival round.
Would you ever go for a head shot? I mean, at 50 yards it shouldn't be impossible and it's much more a sure thing as far as dropping the animal...
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Old 02-26-2011, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PainterlyShotgroup View Post
Anyway, Boostcrzy, I apologize. I didn't mean to steer your thread in a different direction. I just thought the info that one guy found out was interesting and somewhat relevant to this thread...
no apolgy needed!...this is exactly the type of info I was looking for....thank you!
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Old 02-26-2011, 01:22 AM
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Question 22 LR

if the round is as effective as you think than WHY is the US ARMY ISSUEING 7.62 into each squad and the 'USMC' USING the 308 winchester in 18''barrels in the "M-14 " NEW CONFIGERATION.for the AFGAN. THEATURE.the 22" barrel for sniper's........
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Old 02-26-2011, 02:23 AM
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Man, what is it with talking about the .22's capability that gets sand in everyones?! No one here is comparing the .22 to military or other high power center fire cartridges, so chill!

However, as weak as some think the .22 is, I'd bet no one, even the nay sayers, would want to stand even 300 yards away and get shot at with one.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 02-26-2011 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 02-26-2011, 02:40 AM
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Ya well I can drop a beer can from 500 yrds away if I had enough time and ammo lol.. god I love how people take this sport so seriously.. its like saying the yankees are going to win the superbowl
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Old 02-26-2011, 02:43 AM
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Ya well I can drop a beer can from 500 yrds away if I had enough time and ammo lol.. god I love how people take this sport so seriously.. its like saying the yankees are going to win the superbowl
LOL! I know...
It's like you say " hey you know the .22 can still be effective out to 300 yards."
And then you get some guy who is undoubtedly offended by that and comes back with "yeah? Well if the .22 is effective out to 300 yards, then why does the military use tanks?"
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:35 AM
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An interesting read! And, nice vids, as well.

You know, I'm just a guy on somewhat of a budget that enjoys his 15-22. I don't hunt. I love the fact that I can buy the 300+ round of Federal 'Target' ammo at Wal-Mart, and shoot all day! And, my last 600-700+ rounds have all been shot at the local indoor range - out to 25yds. I love it!
I cannot wait to get outside with it again.

At the end of 2010, I did buy a S&W M&P 9L handgun for home defense, and target fun. Soon; I will get my carry permit.

But, I don't need an AR-15. Sure! It would be nice, I suppose. But, I really don't want to pay more for ammo than I already do. And, since I don't belong to the MSSA (Midsouth Sport Shooting Association) outdoor gun club, I would have no place to really shoot something like an AR-15.

I love my M&P 15-22! And, since adding the Primary Arms Multi-Reticle Red Dot, it's even more fun!
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Old 02-26-2011, 11:44 AM
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some years back I took in a Marlin 60 little shot but much truck-carried as part payment on some welding work.
I sold it at a fair price to a young nephew that useing an online guide disassembled completely, cleaned and put back together mounting 4X Simmons.
after some sight-in & practice he now practices on walnuts standing off hand at around 50yds and never misses. any man at 100 yds is in deep kim-shooey.
if shot off rest it's remarkable the groups he gets useing MiniMags.
he was wondering about a SHTF gun but I told him - 'looks to me as if you've got one'!
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
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Would you ever go for a head shot? I mean, at 50 yards it shouldn't be impossible and it's much more a sure thing as far as dropping the animal...
I could but I'm really kind of hoping they will run off so I don't have to dispose of the carcass. Deer are pests here and I'm an exterminator, not a hunter. I generally just open a window and shoot them without going outside. I've shot them with almost every gun I own including my 10mm revolver. I guess I need to try my .45acp next and work my way down to the .22 pistols.

You may wonder why waste the meat but I have no luck giving them away. I'll call people I know and tell them I've got one for them and they ask if I have it cleaned yet. Ha.Ha. The coyotes eat well around here. I used to try and eat it myself but every recipe trys to disguise the taste which is hard to do. If I can't just throw it on the grill plain like beef I'm not interested. You can do that with Elk, it's as good as beef.

Back to .22's. The experienced poachers around here use .22 shorts for low noise and shoot them between the eyes. Works fine for them.
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Old 02-27-2011, 10:02 PM
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Where is here that you have so many deer? In my very restricted state of New York it's illegal to even field a .22 during deer season. What kind of ranges are you taking heart shots at a deer and killing it with a .22? I can see getting lucky but wouldn't the rib cage deflect or stop the rounds at any kind of distance? I have seen a deer taken with a headshot at about 40 yards using a 22 hornet and I thought that was never going to work until I saw it happen. I never even really considered a .22LR for the job if I was allowed for me.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:19 AM
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Default Caliber vs bullet weight?

Arr! There are 43 states that allow deer hunting with a rifle. Of those 43 states, 38 allow the use of .22 centerfire cartridges a few even allow a .22 rim fire!.

However, I was taught to take game (Elk, deer, black bear, antelope/pronghorn, geese, ducks, game birds, and doves, and even rabbits and squirrels, etc in the MOST HUMANE manner. This goes for pests -- coyotes, foxes, fluffy bunnies, gophers, prairie dogs, and the ever annoying starling, etc). If you shoot it, it should be a clean kill, if not track it to retrieve the game. I've got a number of tracking stories for over 40+ years of hunting.

The point of discussion is EFFECTIVE KILL range for Rimfire vs centerfire. Would I use a .22 caliber for game? The answer is. it depends. Survival -Yes, AR-7 any game. The USAF survival versions - .22 hornet/.410 or the .22 LR. If I had a choice to shoot an antelope or deer with a .22LR or a larger caliber, 6mm/243 Win or larger....I'll always take the larger centerfire caliber rifle.

22 Caliber for hunting...rimfire vs. Centerfire

22 rimfire: not by choice for big game
22 centerfire: Depends -- 22-250,.223/5.56mm, and other 22 Calibers, e.g., 219 Zipper, .220 Rocket, .222 Rem. Magnum, .224 Weatherby, and .225 Winchester. I've seen elk dropped with eye shots from 22-250 shots (hand loaded - Nosler Partition 60 gr). The two brothers I know can do this kind of shooting are that good! Is it practical, not really.

Now if the game (Tango) can shoot back...I want take them down at my maximum range.... Give me the right rifle, 308/7.62mm or a nice fast and flat round, and a really good mil dot scope. Then I can reach out and tap the Mike Foxtrot at 300+ yards!

Could I shoot my 15-22 at 300+yrds? at a threat? Yes.
Would the Tango/zombie go down? Maybe. But, why worry about a threat and charging whitetail/muley

Just some more chatter to the topic.

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Old 02-28-2011, 01:05 AM
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Where is here that you have so many deer? In my very restricted state of New York it's illegal to even field a .22 during deer season. What kind of ranges are you taking heart shots at a deer and killing it with a .22? I can see getting lucky but wouldn't the rib cage deflect or stop the rounds at any kind of distance? I have seen a deer taken with a headshot at about 40 yards using a 22 hornet and I thought that was never going to work until I saw it happen. I never even really considered a .22LR for the job if I was allowed for me.
Destruction permits enable me to shoot anytime of the year and use any weapon I want, spot light ok too. I wouldn't use a .22lr for sport either but it can be a killer on deer if close. Most of my .22lr shots were 25 to 50 yards. Yes the rib would deflect it so lucky too. But remember I'm shooting 20 to 35 deer per year. If I opened up on one 50 yards or less chances are it wasn't getting out of there. If you shoot a solid point in between it's eyes at less than 50 yards 9 times out of 10 it will be fatal in my experience. I live next to an orchard, deers love apples, pears and peaches.

I have also shot many with an AR-15. I know some states won't let you use them and some say it's not fit for big game but I assure you they will hammer whitetails at 200 yds or less shot any where in the torso or head/neck. I used 55gr military FMJ loaded to 3000fps. It will also kill them at 300 yards if you can aim.

Last edited by wbear; 02-28-2011 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:14 PM
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Destruction permits enable me to shoot anytime of the year and use any weapon I want, spot light ok too. I wouldn't use a .22lr for sport either but it can be a killer on deer if close. Most of my .22lr shots were 25 to 50 yards. Yes the rib would deflect it so lucky too. But remember I'm shooting 20 to 35 deer per year. If I opened up on one 50 yards or less chances are it wasn't getting out of there. If you shoot a solid point in between it's eyes at less than 50 yards 9 times out of 10 it will be fatal in my experience. I live next to an orchard, deers love apples, pears and peaches.

I have also shot many with an AR-15. I know some states won't let you use them and some say it's not fit for big game but I assure you they will hammer whitetails at 200 yds or less shot any where in the torso or head/neck. I used 55gr military FMJ loaded to 3000fps. It will also kill them at 300 yards if you can aim.
You are making me jealous. I gotta hump through the woods to find them and drag them back when I'm done. I gotta make friends with a farmer. I'll stop hijacking this thread now.
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:48 PM
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Default distance shooting accuracy...

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Originally Posted by BoostCrzy View Post
...decided to shoot for distance to see how far we could nail targets....we ended up hitting sheets of paper (8.5 x 11) at over 230 yards!!......

....SO lets hear it....what kind of range is everyone seeing?...
Not a 15-22, but I have taken pleasure in knocking over pig silhouettes at 100 meters with my model 34 snubby...of course there is a certain amount of holdover (can you spell 'lob'?), but it is good fun when the fellow next to you with a 15-22 is missing the same pigs.
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:59 PM
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Well I guess effective is relative, but a comparison is that a .223 Rem has more FPS and energy at 900yards then a .22LR has at 250yards and the common effective distance of a .223 is 500yards. In fact the .223 has more velocity and over double the energy at 500yards then a .22 at the muzzle.
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:44 PM
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Here are some pics from our day out.


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Old 03-01-2011, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PainterlyShotgroup View Post
This isn't based on my own experience, but since buying this gun I've wondered about the range and lethality of the .22. A lot of people, at first thought, see it as a weak round. But I think it is a rather versatile and potentially lethal round.

There is also these two videos of a guy shooting rock hard avocados at a range of 225 yards:
Pt 1: YouTube - The .22 and it's lethality Pt 1.
Pt 2: YouTube - The .22 and it's lethality Pt 2.
I think this one is fake. At 600+ feet away, the sound will be reaching the target about a quarter second after the bullet. Plus this guy is shooting rapid fire and hitting avocados at that distance???

No doubt the .22 is the best cartridge ever made, I won't argue that.
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:55 AM
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I think this one is fake. At 600+ feet away, the sound will be reaching the target about a quarter second after the bullet. Plus this guy is shooting rapid fire and hitting avocados at that distance???

No doubt the .22 is the best cartridge ever made, I won't argue that.
Yeah, now that you mention it, I kind of agree with you on the video possibly being fake. The sound sounds too close...

You really think the .22 is the best cartridge? Why? Just curious...
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:45 PM
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This is "generalized" for a very specific .22 round class: Maximum range varies according to the ammunition selection used, platfom selected, angle of travel, and compensating factors. Low end speeds of approximately 500 ft/s, for up to 400 yards, are average with maximum speed depending on the round type selected and platform. An object the size of a .22 round traveling at 500 ft/s can inflict a serious wound, or in some cases cause death depending on which area of the soft tissue entered and the type of bullet. The best strike zone, given a match of certain ammunition, platform, and shooter, for tactical use is within 300 yards with the ideal being at 172 yards for most special rounds. Average low end terminal range is around 500 to 600 yards depending on factors. Depending on the slant angle, range can be a little more (up to about a mile and a half) or less. 45 deg is considered the optimum angle for maximum range but flight characteristics vary greatly so it might not be optimum for every round, some have suggested up to about 60 deg with specific rounds. Maximum terminal ballistic capability occurs at speed suitable for the bullet mass, max speed and bullet mass suitable speed are not the same thing.

The CCI rounds you guys are using, its completly different, but much of it is roughly the same. So realistically, at about 150 yards your CCI rounds are deadly, at 200 yards they are seriously dangerous, at 500 yards they are dangerous but not a big worry, and at 800 yards "where did it go?"

Last edited by Foxtrot; 03-01-2011 at 03:06 PM.
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