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  #51  
Old 08-03-2011, 01:01 PM
whodat whodat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiklasP View Post
E6type,

What do you know or expect muzzle velocities to be from pistols? I would guess 1100 fps from 4-6 inch barrels, in best cases, maybe only 900s from 2,0 inch barreled revolvers.

Thanks,
Niklas

Chrono info. for Aguila Interceptor HP vs. Solid point
I got around to running some Aguila Interceptor HP vs Solid point thru the chronograph. It is the round of choice for my S&W semi-auto pistols. They shoot the round quite well. Over a thousand rounds each and going strong. I don't shoot the Interceptor as much as I did 2yrs. ago as range ammo. But, I run thru 100 rounds every now and then. I'm posting this because I don't see much chrono info. posted about the Interceptor thru 3-4.5 inch pistol/revolvers. Your mileage may vary, but it shots great for me from a rifle or pistol.


July17, 2010
Temp: 94 degree
Hum: 59% - Elevation 650 -750ft above sea level
Partly Cloudy



Firearms NEF R92 Ultra 9 shot 4 inch barrel 22LR revolver, S&W 422 4.5 inch barrel, S&W 2214 3 inch barrel.




Testing distance for revolvers/pistols 12ft.
Ten shots each.

Ammunition chrono
Aguila Interceptor 40gr. Hollow-Point and Solid 22LR(1470 fps)

S&W 422 4.5 inch barrel
(Hollow Point)
High 1175 fps
Low - 1125 fps
Avg. - 1153 fps

(Solid)
High 1185 fps
Low - 1090 fps
Avg. - 1121 fps

S&W 2214 - 3 inch barrel
(Hollow Point)
High 1077 fps
Low - 1021 fps
Avg. - 1047 fps

(Solid)
High 1049 fps
Low - 962 fps
Avg. - 1004 fps

NEF R92 Ultra 4 inch barrel
(Hollow Point)
High 1054 fps
Low - 986 fps
Avg. - 1020 fps

(Solid)
High - 1035 fps
Low - 895 fps
Avg. - 968 fps
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  #52  
Old 08-03-2011, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALADIN85020 View Post
A .22 LR handgun has been and is being used by our U.S. military special forces. This example from a special 50-pistol Mk II overrun from a Ruger contract with the Navy SEALs is a case in point. This gun was manufactured in 1987. The receiver/barrel is stainless with a black phosphate finish; the bolt, trigger and medallion on the right grip are also blackened. The base for the front sight is thinner than standard, probably to accept a slip-on-and-twist bayonet-mount style suppressor. No special markings were requested by the SEALs. If a suppressor was used, I suspect subsonic ammo was employed.

This gun provides a good way to take down sentries with a shot to the base of the skull - it's also very good for covert assassinations. Don't sell the .22LR short; for certain purposes it's ideal.

John

oh i am not one to sell ANY firearm short--but a Ruger in the hands of an operator on Seal Team 6 and one in my hands at 3am when groggy from being awoken isnt quite the same thing

Any firearm is better than nothing--true--a BRICK is better than NOTHING...the point is a 22LR isnt IDEAL for defense...it will work if its all you have but if you are serious about defendse then a 22 WONT be all you have...

Also--that is a GORGEOUS Ruger!! a Mark? is my next purchase i have decided
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  #53  
Old 08-03-2011, 04:51 PM
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Thanks Whodat!!

I will be trying this ammo in my 22 revolver and rifle!!

Niklas
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  #54  
Old 08-03-2011, 06:02 PM
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Be vewy vewy quiet...



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  #55  
Old 08-03-2011, 06:42 PM
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My "Lightweight" alternative to the Ruger (not that the Ruger isn't a fine gun).

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  #56  
Old 08-03-2011, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revolvergeek View Post
After looking at Gelatin results at brassfetcher.com, I would go with either the CCI Velocitors or Aguila SSS (assuming that they function reliably in your rifle of course). The Velocitors have a nice balance of expansion and penetration. The SSS penetrates deeply and yaws/tumbles once and should do a fair bit of damage. Reliability is the single most important factor though, and if you have any malfunctions with them then you need to try something else. If I was 100% betting my life on a 22 rim-fire I would likely invest in some very good Lapua / RWS / etc Biathlon or other competition ammo. You might pay $8-15 a box of 50, but it should be about the most reliable rim-fire ammo that you can buy.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with a 22 LR rifle used in a defensive role in a very limited set of circumstances (people with limited hand strength, need to limit penetration of missed shots as much as possible, etc). The big advantage is that you can afford to practice a lot with it and get good. There was a time when all that I had was an Iver Johnson TP22, and religiously shot a minimum of 500 rounds a week with it. You have to plan to make multiple neck and face shots, fast, under stress and in bad lighting 100% of the time.

That said, under normal circumstances a 22 would not be my first choice though. I would bet that if you crawl the pawn shops you can pick up an ugly used Mossberg / Revelation / New Haven 500/600 pump in 12 or 20 gauge for around $100-125.
I think the gov't needs to let us scientists use Death Row inmates instead of ballistic gelatin, we'll get invaluable data!
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  #57  
Old 08-03-2011, 10:15 PM
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I think the gov't needs to let us scientists use Death Row inmates instead of ballistic gelatin, we'll get invaluable data!
propose this in Texas! +1
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  #58  
Old 08-03-2011, 10:53 PM
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As a boy I toured a horse slaughterhouse in Kansas City. They used a short, very heavy barrel device to shoot a 22LR short into the head of the horse. The notion that a 22LR will not penetrate the skull is nonsense. As has been mentioned in many of the posts, the ammo of choice should be the most reliable in your hands and weapon with which you shoot most accurately. Practice moving targets, low light and all the rest and perfect shot placement. I would rather be defended by an expert marksman with a 22LR rifle than a hacker with a 44 magnum.

Last edited by Ed45; 08-03-2011 at 10:55 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #59  
Old 08-04-2011, 01:59 AM
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propose this in Texas! +1
dont give us anymore ideas
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  #60  
Old 08-04-2011, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Redbulladdikt View Post
As stated before...dont discount a .410 with the right loadout--i have seen what the PDX ammo can do to steel at close range--not as dramatic as a 12 but might be more economical

Think thast the point here is--eat bologna sandwiches for a week or two and scratch together $150 and get a shotgun instead of staking your safety on a .22 longterm
I agree on the potential of the .410, but I have seen a couple pumps that are very finicky with some of the 'Judge' loads so I am hesitant to recommend the combo to someone on a budget. I am trying to troubleshoot a 500 .410 for a friend right now that is perfectly reliable with regular shotgun ammo, but when shooting the Federal 4-pellet OO (or is it OOO??) load it will sometimes let one slip past the shell stop and drop to the ground when cycling the action. It has to be something with a minor change in rim diameter or thickness to make it work better in one of the 5 shot cylinders, but I have to find my calipers so that I can measure them out properly.

When they do cycle though the patterns are great. It will consistently put 4 pellets in about 14 inches at 25 yards.
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  #61  
Old 08-04-2011, 11:42 AM
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mine is an old side-by-side so i am useless for that particular issue...Looking at a Siaga .410 at a local shop tho--very neat
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  #62  
Old 08-04-2011, 06:23 PM
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I ended up coming home with cci subsonic hollow point 40 grain, this was pretty much the only hollow point option they had..this should be good as a self defense ammo right, (i only own a .22 so thats why i'm asking)
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  #63  
Old 08-04-2011, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rmw15-22 View Post
I ended up coming home with cci subsonic hollow point 40 grain, this was pretty much the only hollow point option they had..this should be good as a self defense ammo right, (i only own a .22 so thats why i'm asking)
not trying to sound 'dickish' but did you actually read any of this thread?>
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  #64  
Old 08-04-2011, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmw15-22 View Post
I ended up coming home with cci subsonic hollow point 40 grain, this was pretty much the only hollow point option they had..this should be good as a self defense ammo right, (i only own a .22 so thats why i'm asking)
probably not. subsonic ammo won't reliably cycle the gun, and has less velocity to puncture things.

did you read the package? usually it says on them that they won't reliably cycle in semi auto.
did you read the manual that came with the rifle? s&w specifically states any and all brands of subsonic aren't recommended.

Last edited by thacheese; 08-04-2011 at 06:35 PM.
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  #65  
Old 08-04-2011, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmw15-22 View Post
I ended up coming home with cci subsonic hollow point 40 grain, this was pretty much the only hollow point option they had..this should be good as a self defense ammo right, (i only own a .22 so thats why i'm asking)
Shoot em up for practice at 25 yards, then go buy some CCI Stingers instead.
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  #66  
Old 08-04-2011, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbulladdikt View Post
oh i am not one to sell ANY firearm short--but a Ruger in the hands of an operator on Seal Team 6 and one in my hands at 3am when groggy from being awoken isnt quite the same thing
Yea you have to remember that Ruger is only employed when the opperator has the initiative and element of surprise on their side. When you get woken up at 3AM and got eye boogers you have niether haha
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  #67  
Old 08-04-2011, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmw15-22 View Post
I ended up coming home with cci subsonic hollow point 40 grain, this was pretty much the only hollow point option they had..this should be good as a self defense ammo right, (i only own a .22 so thats why i'm asking)
You asked, we discussed and then you ignored.

CCI Subsonic
  • 40 grain lead hollow point bullet.
  • Muzzle Velocity: 1050 fps
  • Muzzle Energy: 98 ft. lbs.

Good luck with that.
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  #68  
Old 08-04-2011, 07:41 PM
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From that book you threw away:

Through our testing, Smith & Wesson has also found that there
are several brands and types of .22LR ammunition that do not
perform consistently or reliably. Consequently, Smith & Wesson
DOES NOT RECOMMEND that the following brands or types of
.22LR ammunition be used in your M&P15-22 rifle:
• Remington Golden Bullet • Remington Thunderbolt
• Remington Target 22 • Winchester Wildcat
• Any and all sub-sonic brands and types

Last edited by E6type; 08-04-2011 at 07:46 PM.
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  #69  
Old 08-04-2011, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E6type View Post
You asked, we discussed and then you ignored.

CCI Subsonic
  • 40 grain lead hollow point bullet.
  • Muzzle Velocity: 1050 fps
  • Muzzle Energy: 98 ft. lbs.

Good luck with that.
I will concur that sub-sonic would not be my ammo of choice, and that in the manual it cautions it as unreliable. However, one of the most important rules is to only shoot reliable ammunition (especially in a defense scenario). So far I have close to one hundred rounds of Remington Subsonic through my rifle and not one issue (much to my surprise).

For me and SHTF scenarios; I am going to use my stock of Stinger and Velocitor ammo.
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  #70  
Old 08-05-2011, 10:00 PM
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Default 22 l.r.

As a former fireman/emt I have been to suisides and drive-by and other shootings and had friends in the coroners office. The puny 22lr does strange things on one suicide the bullet pierced the skull and then bounced around the skull. On another case a victum was shot center mass and they found the bullet in his arm. I have also known of people shot who never realized they were wounded until the incident was over.
22L.R. would not be my choice for SD but it sure beats a sharp stick.
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  #71  
Old 08-05-2011, 11:20 PM
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Gentlemen,

If you happen to notice that your post is missing it's because I deleted it. We're not going to get into discussing states issues or opinions of same here. That leads to political discussion which is a banned topic on the Forum.


For specific 2A discussion, there is a dedicated Forum for that. 2nd Amendment Forum
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  #72  
Old 08-08-2011, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed45 View Post
I would rather be defended by an expert marksman with a 22LR rifle than a hacker with a 44 magnum.
Exactly. I'll agree that a .22 is not ideal for self defense, but it is a deadly round none the less. I say anytime you've got 25 rounds heading at you you're about to have a bad day.

I think the key to self defense with a .22 is shot placement and volume. Practice firing in 3 to 5 round bursts. Don't worry about tack driving accuracy, but try to keep those rounds in an approximate 5" group.

Also acount for the psycological affect of having a weapon that the badguy believes is an AR.

Last edited by 06x; 08-08-2011 at 08:46 PM. Reason: spelling errors due to posting from phone.
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  #73  
Old 08-08-2011, 09:36 PM
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I like the CCI Stingers.
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  #74  
Old 08-09-2011, 08:26 PM
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With .22LR, go for the Gut, Face or between the Hips. Upper Center Mass might ricochet off of the Ribs/Sternum and not penetrate.

Ever had a stomach ache? Hurts like crazy, and doubles you over, doesn't it? Imagine what a.22LR Hollow Point would feel like bouncing around in there.

Shooting is just like Realty Property... Location, Location, Location... it's all about Shot Placement.

I keep CCI Mini-Mag HP's loaded in my BUG Beretta 21A Bobcat.

Best of Luck!

Cheers!

BB
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  #75  
Old 08-10-2011, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06x View Post
...anytime you've got 25 rounds heading at you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon88 View Post
... perp with 25 little holes in him...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipittythefoo View Post
...25 rounds of 60 gr subsonic sniper comming out of the barrel sideways might stop someone....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Carry View Post
...Ten shots from 22 ain't too bad...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuds03 View Post
...dump your mag as fast as you can into em...
Quote:
Originally Posted by team sidewinder View Post
...not until I have used every round in the gun on him...
You may have difficulty convincing a jury/prosecutor that your use of so many rounds in the course of self defense/justifiable homicide was necessary and not excessive. I'm not saying you should pop the guy once and hope it all works out while you flip through your law handbook, but just be aware of the laws in your state and all the collateral issues that arise regarding home defense. Another good reason why shotguns are recognized as good home defense weapons.

Not trying to be political or anything, Phil. Just an observation.
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  #76  
Old 08-10-2011, 01:16 PM
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a very very good observation! In concealed carry class we had a lawyer give a simple analogy ( this is a generalization...i am not a lawyer!)

That trigger pull will be the most expensive decision of your life...are you reasonably sure the jury will understand>?
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
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You may have difficulty convincing a jury/prosecutor that your use of so many rounds in the course of self defense/justifiable homicide was necessary and not excessive. I'm not saying you should pop the guy once and hope it all works out while you flip through your law handbook, but just be aware of the laws in your state and all the collateral issues that arise regarding home defense. Another good reason why shotguns are recognized as good home defense weapons.

Not trying to be political or anything, Phil. Just an observation.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:10 PM
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A few pages back in this thread, Whodat posted some chrono results for "hypervelocity" 40 grain HPs (Aguila) in handguns. One of his results is:

S&W 422 – 4.5 inch barrel
(Hollow Point)
High – 1175 fps
Low - 1125 fps
Avg. - 1153 fps

Today I chronoed CCI Velocitor 40 grain HP ammo (advertized 1435 fps) in my Ruger Single Six with 4 5/8 inch barrel. For two cylinders full (12 rounds) average velocity was 1138 fps, low 1107, high 1168 fps.

Nice consistency in velocities from similar barrel lengths, better than one can expect.

Got some 1,5 inch full cylinder groups at about 20 yards, when my fickle eye would let me get off 6 clearly aimed shots. Nice ammo! However, for hunting or self defence with this revolver, I will stick with Federal 50 grain 22MRF loads -- they give 1250 fps from this gun.

For comparison I chronoed one cylinder full of Federal Champion 36 grain HP, listed velocity 1280, from a 525 round value pack. Result was 1057 fps, L 1031, H 1079.

Chrono 12 feet away, temp mid 70sF.

Niklas

Last edited by NiklasP; 08-10-2011 at 05:38 PM.
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  #79  
Old 08-10-2011, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
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You may have difficulty convincing a jury/prosecutor that your use of so many rounds in the course of self defense/justifiable homicide was necessary and not excessive.
Any number of self defense experts will testify that they teach you to shoot the guy till he goes down, if that's 2 or 300 rounds it's immaterial. At least this is what I was taught last time I attended a gun class. I would fire as fast as I could and if the mag goes dry, well, it goes dry and I load another mag and keep going until I no longer feel threatened. I'm sure you could drag out half the local police force and get similar answers.

If you don't think this will stand up to a court room in your state, I suggest you review why you live in the state you do or elect people who will fix junk like this.
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:47 PM
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As for ammo choices... I know you asked about stopping power but I'm going to ramble on about my views on what is important in 22LR ammo for self defense.

The principle drawback to 22lr is the fact that it is a rimfire round. Rimfire ignition is inherrently less reliable than center fire. My personal experience is CCI > Federal > Winchester as far as reliable ignition goes. I've never yet recorded a CCI failure-to-fire in my log. In fairness I haven't yet used as much CCI as I have the other brands (3 bulk boxes so far, I only made the switch recently, so far so good!). I have experienced multiple, as many as 5, from a box of 333 Winchester bulk and as many as 3 from 525 Federal bulk. I don't have much experience with other brands - do your own experimentation. Sometimes I can get through a full box of Federal/Winchester with no failures but not very often.

"Stopping power" is a mythological scoring mechanism and 22lr is pretty abysmal in general on that particular scale. If you can reach the vitals, you can destroy them, if you can't then you won't. The more holes you put in the enemy, the more they bleed. Slightly bigger holes don't help this process much unless that bigger hole opened up another artery you wouldn't have hit otherwise - this actually isn't common. I believe penetration is more important than expansion. Much more important.

So, onto penetration... Anything that excells with "varmits" is probably going to be a no-go. I join with those who recommend heavy rounds - though I will part with most and say a "hollow point" is not required. Penetration > expansion. Every time. Though the Velocitor seems to get you a good amount of both, and it's a CCI. Looks like a good candidate. I also like 40gr high velocity solids, CCI has a variety of them. Bulk is going to be cheaper to test out than high dollar rounds like Velocitor, but if you want the best you try for the best.

I suggest you try 500-1k rounds with each round you wish to experiement with and record each failure type. Any gun related failures should instantly void that round type unless you can discover the cause and remedy it and get through 500-1000 trouble free rounds on a 2nd attempt (You probably already know some of this). Once you have found a round your gun likes, I would buy a case of that round type. Not 10 individual boxes, a complete case which should all be from the same lot. Or at least a good quantity, all from the same lot. From that case I'd fire off 3 boxes and check the failure to fire rate and any potential unanticipated gun related failures. If it's zero, I'd call that your "golden stash" and use it for your self defense rounds. I wouldn't use it for plinking. If it's not zero, you can try another lot or go back to step one and look for another round and the rest of that case becomes plinking rounds. It's nice if you also note the consistancy round to round in that lot, if you have a chrono (or a friend with one) you can get even better data. But that's less importantant than the fit and function checking you're doing with the gun and every round loading and going bang. You can use lower number sets if you can't afford this kind of testing, especially with expensive rounds. I find failure to fire common enough to warrent some pretty high round count tests with 22LR to reach my comfort level. Maybe if you wanted to go Velocitor you'd buy 500-1000 from the same lot, test fire 250 for function and keep the rest for defense. 250 is not 1500, but is still a reasonable sample size.

Next best thing you can do is shoot your gun, train clearing malfunctions, etc. Make sure you also number your magazines and note if any of them are causing issues and get rid of them (or make sure they stay training mags only).

I don't advocate headshots unless you know, or suspect, that they are wearing body armor. Shoot for center of mass and shoot till the aggressor drops.

Last edited by BackBlast; 08-10-2011 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:13 PM
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I live in Nevada, one of the more gun friendly states, and I am still aware of the legal realities of firearm use. All it takes is an overzealous DA to attempt to negate your claim of self defense because you shot someone 25 times and reloaded or because you performed a trigger job on your weapon. Are you able to prove that it took all 25+ shots from one magazine in order to stop the threat of imminent violence? Or do you look like someone eager to kill another in a reckless manner?

Self defense experts may tell you to keep shooting, but experts on the plea of self defense may say otherwise. People merely "defending themselves" have been found liable because of trigger jobs, safety modifications, etc. I'm not saying you won't be successful in your plea, just that there are significant issues that arise from, well, shooting someone. Protect yourself and your family, absolutely, but come armed with knowledge as well as your weapon.

The message is : Get a shotgun
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:18 PM
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Pretty obvious you stop shooting once they drop and are no longer a threat.

I remember awhile back at Ft Jackson while training in the EST 2000 a fire team of Privates were practicing on it and a talibanman jumped out of this minivan with an ak and they lit him up..I mean he dropped instantly but all 4 of them emptied their 30rd mags into him on the floor it was rediculous...Obviously they did it to be funny but the E6 went ape **** on em and they got the **** smoked outa them and had to write essays on ROE and Geneva with just the broken off lead tips of pencils lol!
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corpulent View Post
I live in Nevada, one of the more gun friendly states, and I am still aware of the legal realities of firearm use. All it takes is an overzealous DA to attempt to negate your claim of self defense because you shot someone 25 times and reloaded or because you performed a trigger job on your weapon. Are you able to prove that it took all 25+ shots from one magazine in order to stop the threat of imminent violence? Or do you look like someone eager to kill another in a reckless manner?

Self defense experts may tell you to keep shooting, but experts on the plea of self defense may say otherwise. People merely "defending themselves" have been found liable because of trigger jobs, safety modifications, etc. I'm not saying you won't be successful in your plea, just that there are significant issues that arise from, well, shooting someone. Protect yourself and your family, absolutely, but come armed with knowledge as well as your weapon.

The message is : Get a shotgun
yeah you guys are right, i wouldn't unload the mag, just a few shots in the groin, and work my way up from there 3 shots at a time as needed. don't want to seem reckless
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Last edited by thacheese; 08-11-2011 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:38 PM
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i have a feeling either 1) a single dose of #6 birdshot from a 3-inch .410 shell or 2) a 165 Grain Hydra Shok centermass will probably get the job done a lot more effectively--just saying
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:12 PM
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just fyi for you guys, I shot the 200 rounds of subsonic cci hp's. I had not one FTF or FTE, with pretty damn good accuracy. I do not plan to buy anymore now realizing smith says not too use them ( missed it somehow in the manual). But from what I can tell they are just fine to shoot
Ordered cci stingers and they are kick ***, way louder which is a plus for me
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:12 PM
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22 is would not be my first choice but since it is all you have I would just get any ammo that you find really reliable. It won't make a huge difference if they are hollow point or not. I probably would want more penetration and not go with hollow point.

There was a recent report of a woman that was showering. Someone broke into her home. Somehow she was able to get to her night stand and get her 22 revolver. Intruder died.

I bet you most of the people on here including myself would not be able to take a couple shots of a 22 and continue to come at you. So don't listen to the tough guy bigger is better talk.

That being said, when you do have the money, buy a shotgun. Mossberg Maverick Model 88 usually goes for $199-$230. Mossberg 500 usually goes for around $279.
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by joepa150 View Post
22 is would not be my first choice but since it is all you have I would just get any ammo that you find really reliable. It won't make a huge difference if they are hollow point or not. I probably would want more penetration and not go with hollow point.

There was a recent report of a woman that was showering. Someone broke into her home. Somehow she was able to get to her night stand and get her 22 revolver. Intruder died.

I bet you most of the people on here including myself would not be able to take a couple shots of a 22 and continue to come at you. So don't listen to the tough guy bigger is better talk.

That being said, when you do have the money, buy a shotgun. Mossberg Maverick Model 88 usually goes for $199-$230. Mossberg 500 usually goes for around $279.


stories like these abound...and agreed I cannot say I would appreciate being shot by a .22--that being said I also wouldn't bet my life or my families' on it--I will stick with my 160 GR Hyrda-shok in my USP; no guesswork it WILL kill/incapacitate in one shot
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:46 AM
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stories like these abound...and agreed I cannot say I would appreciate being shot by a .22--that being said I also wouldn't bet my life or my families' on it--I will stick with my 160 GR Hyrda-shok in my USP; no guesswork it WILL kill/incapacitate in one shot
I don't agree with this statement. "160 GR Hyrda-shok in my USP; no guesswork it WILL kill/incapacitate in one shot"

Yes you do have a higher probability of stopping an attacker vs a 22 BUT it is not guaranteed that one shot will do it. It would be foolish and could be dangerous to think this. Whether you are shooting a 40, 45, 9mm, 357mag, etc. Shot placement is key.
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Old 08-13-2011, 11:42 AM
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I don't agree with this statement. "160 GR Hyrda-shok in my USP; no guesswork it WILL kill/incapacitate in one shot"

Yes you do have a higher probability of stopping an attacker vs a 22 BUT it is not guaranteed that one shot will do it. It would be foolish and could be dangerous to think this. Whether you are shooting a 40, 45, 9mm, 357mag, etc. Shot placement is key.
as proficient as i am nobody is perfect--but there are 12 more Hydra-shoks in the magazine...in the unlikely event i dont put the first shot in the Heart/Lung cluster i will guarantee the second one will be!

I am much more confident in what this weapon is capable of after being surprised by a very large very angry raccoon in my garage last week--seeing what that round did to him close-range i can tell ya that it gets pretty messy center-mass

And just to cover my tail i contacted the local Sherifffs office and Hydra-shok is their standard duty ammo...be difficult for an attorney to argue i was carrying anything illicit
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:32 PM
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as proficient as i am nobody is perfect--but there are 12 more Hydra-shoks in the magazine...in the unlikely event i dont put the first shot in the Heart/Lung cluster i will guarantee the second one will be!

I am much more confident in what this weapon is capable of after being surprised by a very large very angry raccoon in my garage last week--seeing what that round did to him close-range i can tell ya that it gets pretty messy center-mass

And just to cover my tail i contacted the local Sherifffs office and Hydra-shok is their standard duty ammo...be difficult for an attorney to argue i was carrying anything illicit
Gotcha. Hydra-shoks are pretty deadly.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:26 AM
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I agree with most here, a good scatter gun with some high brass #4-#7 is probably a better choice for home defence. But like has been stated "never train to just shoot one time". I almost allways (when either plinking or practicing with bigger bores) use atleast one follow up shot if not two or three and I never try and do the same thing twice. Simply because the goal is to stop them. If you practice to pull your gun and pull the trigger twice and reholster it. What happens if you miss? Under low light and stress your a lot more likely to miss than playing in the backyard. Shoot till the threat is gone is my thoughts thow I may be wrong. But if your in my house and I'm protecting myself and my family you better believe if my 15-22 is closest and it takes 25 rounds to the face to put you down. Then ill just bave to explain it in court.. cause my family's safety comes first..

Heaven forbid they enter while I'm cleaning my 1919. I can hear the sherriff now "so exactly why did you shoot him 250 times"... this is a joke for those of you with no sense of humor..lol..
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:43 PM
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Well pretty much it depends on the size of the intruder, if he is a heavyweight or a lightweight, fat, built or skinny. How deeply layered is their clothes. If all fails just shoot for the eyes. You cannot go wrong there. Also if you only have a .22lr rifle or pistol than get you a baton also for backup when you empty all your rounds on the intruder and beat him till he can no longer fight back. If you have a .22lr pistol magazine fed get a tac light with a laser to blind the **** out of them. Shoot the groin area couple times after you blind them with the light then go for the best kill spot. Either the neck, head, or eyes. Make sure you move forward also towards the intruder because the closer you get to them more of the velocity of the bullet is going to hurt them. CCI velocitor round is the best because it mushrooms like a normal hollow point does for a bigger size caliber.


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Old 03-08-2014, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
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"Defensive .22LR" is an oxymoron. Sell the M&P15-22 and get something that works. Or just get something that works like an M&P9.

Headshots? You're kidding, right? The head is extremely hard to penetrate, even the Pope took a "headshot" and survived. The area around the bridge of the nose is about the only place you'll get penetration. If you can hit it. Target of last resort, but great gun store talk...

-- Chuck
RFK took a head shot and didn't survive, Reagan almost didn't make it.......just saying, if that's all you got, use it and try to put all the rounds in the same vicinity, even the shock trauma would hurt like all get out.
as an after thought, i have not found a subsonic that will not cycle my 15-22 with a can on it. they do have heavier bullet weight but are quite slower. i have had them bounce off antelope jacks at around 50 yards, but they have broken either ribs or legs and then bounced off.
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Old 03-08-2014, 12:31 PM
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Be vewy vewy quiet...



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Old 03-10-2014, 12:42 PM
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Definitely CCI Stingers if you can find any. I'm pretty sure they are the most powerful 22 round available.


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Old 03-10-2014, 02:23 PM
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So who has the best price on these CCI Stingers and Velocitors online?
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Old 03-10-2014, 02:39 PM
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.22 ??
practice practice practice, assuming you can still find ammo. I still say a .22 in the eye beats a .45 in the shoulder any day.
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Old 03-10-2014, 02:49 PM
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CCI Stingers... I do have quite a few boxes of mini mags too but I like the stingers better.
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:10 AM
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The fastest ammo that is reliable in your 15-22, is best for defense IMO.

having that said, the .22lr - no matter how much better than other options that aren't guns - is a poor caliber choice for home or personal defense. Anyone buying just one gun with defense in mind is better off with something else, a shotgun being at the top of the list.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:41 AM
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My sister and her husband in Colorado have a P22 that they carry for encounters with coyotes while walking their dog. They use CCI stingers... Though in all honesty, most rounds would do well in scaring off smaller predators or at least having them run off and die hours later from internal damage.


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