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Old 08-01-2011, 03:27 PM
rmw15-22 rmw15-22 is offline
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I currently have federal high velocity and cci minis loaded into my magazines for my home defense. I know .22 is not the best for home defense, but its all i own as of now. So any ideas on what ammo I should keep in my mags to get the best stopping power?
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Old 08-01-2011, 04:20 PM
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i have had luck on raccoons/oppossums with CCI Velocitors or with the good old Mini-Mags...even center-mass hits are usually messy and they tend to go bang every time...obviously you want something with hit power but you also want reliable

my suggestion is to invest in something with a little more 'pop' when funds allow--I have a .410 with some #6 birdshot 3inch shells i bought some years ago for $150 used...its not pretty but its reliable and less chance of overpenetration in a "hightened adrenal" situation...but if a 22is all you have then its all you have...still beats a sharpened stick!
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Old 08-01-2011, 04:28 PM
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Since you clearly stated that it is the only choice available to you at this time, I will save the preaching from the soap box. And I would hope that others will follow suit and do the same.

The heaviest grain bullet you can find in a hollow point, is the best you will be able to do. Such as 2-WNXHV22LR - Ammo .22 Long Rifle Winchester Plated Hollow Point 40 Grain 1435 fps 100 Rounds
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Old 08-01-2011, 04:39 PM
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any of these will do a good job......................


brand type bullet weight velocity energy

cci velocitor plated hollow point 40 1435 183
cci stinger plated hollow point 32 1640 191
cci segmented plated hollow point 32 1640 191
winchester hyper speed plated hollow point 40 1435 183
agulia interceptor plated round nose 40 1470 192
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Old 08-01-2011, 05:57 PM
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Get a shotgun!

About 8 years ago I paid about $160 for my Maverick 88, and after hundreds of shells later it has never given me any FTF or FTE issues.



If you are willing to spend $400-$500 in a 22 rifle for the fun of it, you should not have a problem spending half that amount to protect your home. And given the title of this thread, I'm sure it will reach a few pages very quickly (again).

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Old 08-01-2011, 06:21 PM
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Best Self Defense Ammo .22?
This is a complete oxymoron.

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So any ideas on what ammo I should keep in my mags to get the best stopping power?
.22lr has no "stopping power".

The thought of police responding to an incident and finding a perp with 25 little holes in him being held down by a 15-22-wielding homeowner is somewhere between comical and tragic.
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Old 08-01-2011, 06:59 PM
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a .22 can be a good round to defend yourself w/, just gotta shoot for the head, anything less than that, you prolly just pissed them off, I'm defending my home w/ a Saiga 12
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:06 PM
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if i recall the avg # of rounds to incapacitate a person is lower with a .22 (1.38) than most other calibers.


i'd go with aguila interceptors, i'm pretty sure they are the fastest 40grn .22 you can buy. maybe some cci segmented hollow points.

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Old 08-01-2011, 07:50 PM
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I'd chose a reliable round with higher velocity than typical HV ammo... something like CCI Stinger IF they feed well in your rifle, or Aguila as mentioned earlier... but whatever you chose RELIABILTY is the first priority. IMO, rimfire reliability to feed and fire is more of an issue than anything else.

Below is a link to some data on .22lr compared to other handgun rounds.

As was mentioned earlier, 60% of the time an attacker was immediately incapacitated with one shot from a .22lr handgun, which is on par or slightly better than other handgun ammo in the report. My guess is that a .22 rifle with higher velocity would yield even better results. According to the data, the significant shortcoming of the .22lr compared to others is that if you don't incapacitate the bad guy on the first shot then that's about it... 31% of the time the bad guy is never incapacitated. Most all other handgun ammo failed to incapacitate the bad guy only 10-15% of the time.

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power

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Old 08-01-2011, 07:53 PM
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I say 25 rounds of 60 gr subsonic sniper comming out of the barrel sideways might stop someone... If thats your only option.
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Old 08-01-2011, 08:05 PM
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I say 25 rounds of 60 gr subsonic sniper comming out of the barrel sideways might stop someone... If thats your only option.

seriously? i didn't think those things even reliably cycled the bolt. subsonic isn't recommended for these rifles. i'd use a $1.50 box of lightning before i'd use anything subsonic.

Last edited by thacheese; 08-01-2011 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 08-01-2011, 08:06 PM
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I would say CCI stingers them little things are nasty Ultra Velocity rounds. They make grape fruits explode so guessing they at least due some tissue damage to a threat.
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Old 08-01-2011, 08:46 PM
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"Defensive .22LR" is an oxymoron. Sell the M&P15-22 and get something that works. Or just get something that works like an M&P9.

Headshots? You're kidding, right? The head is extremely hard to penetrate, even the Pope took a "headshot" and survived. The area around the bridge of the nose is about the only place you'll get penetration. If you can hit it. Target of last resort, but great gun store talk...

-- Chuck
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thacheese View Post
if i recall the avg # of rounds to incapacitate a person is lower with a .22 (1.38) than most other calibers.


i'd go with aguila interceptors, i'm pretty sure they are the fastest 40grn .22 you can buy. maybe some cci segmented hollow points.
Yup!!!
.22lr will kill. Just ask a emergensy room Doctor, or a EMT.
Why do you think the Navy Seals, D-Boys, CiA, etc... Have them???

If .22lr is all you have go for it. There is no such thing as stoping power. Every human reacts differenty when shot.
Even people head shot sometimes live and fight a while.

Deer shot throuh the heart somtimes run a hundred yards or more before dropping.

So shot placment is king. Make sure WHERE your shots hit with a .22lr!!!

My two cents. - .22lr 40G HP ~1400fps. Head shot.
Guy22
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:05 PM
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If that is the only thing you have, its better than nothing. I guess hollow point would be best so your not poking holes thru the bad guy and into whatever is behind. As for "stopping power" read up on it CIA and FBI call it a myth. Too many variables and it depends on who the person is. Lots of articles on baddys hopped up on drugs taking lots of hits and still going, then look at Reagans assassination attempt a .22 did a lot more than I would have guessed it could. All the reports I've read say stopping power is a gun salesmans tool. Severing the spine at the base of skull is the only sure fire stopping place. From what I've been reading center mass isn't even the stand by anymore. Now its right below the sturnum where the femoral arteries branch off.
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
I'd chose a reliable round with higher velocity than typical HV ammo... something like CCI Stinger IF they feed well in your rifle, or Aguila as mentioned earlier... but whatever you chose RELIABILTY is the first priority. IMO, rimfire reliability to feed and fire is more of an issue than anything else.

Below is a link to some data on .22lr compared to other handgun rounds.

As was mentioned earlier, 60% of the time an attacker was immediately incapacitated with one shot from a .22lr handgun, which is on par or slightly better than other handgun ammo in the report. My guess is that a .22 rifle with higher velocity would yield even better results. According to the data, the significant shortcoming of the .22lr compared to others is that if you don't incapacitate the bad guy on the first shot then that's about it... 31% of the time the bad guy is never incapacitated. Most all other handgun ammo failed to incapacitate the bad guy only 10-15% of the time.

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power
Excellent article. If all you have is a .22 for now, use it.
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Old 08-01-2011, 10:08 PM
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As several people have already stated, the 22lr is not the go-to round for self-defense. But my opinion is that an accurate, reliable gun is better than no gun at all, regardless of caliber. I have a .45 acp, 10mm, .357 mag, two .40 S&W's and two 9mm's. And yet, I often hike and camp, especially in the summer, with nothing more than my S&W M63 22lr revolver. Therefore, I guess I bet my life on a 22lr from time to time. To answer your question, I would go with a hyper-velocity hollow point, that cycles through your rifle reliably, and is accurate to the point of aim. I small game hunt a lot with a 22lr rifle and the three rounds that definitely make the most tissue damage are the CCI Stinger, Remington Yellow Jacket, and the new Winchester Xpediter. In your case, I would have to eliminate the Yellow Jacket because of the cone shaped bullet. They do not feed best in semi-auto guns. But either the Stinger or Xpediter should function well, and provide sufficent damage. Buy a box of both and see which ones your rifle likes best. That would be the winner.
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Old 08-01-2011, 10:22 PM
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As several people have already stated, the 22lr is not the go-to round for self-defense. But my opinion is that an accurate, reliable gun is better than no gun at all, regardless of caliber. I have a .45 acp, 10mm, .357 mag, two .40 S&W's and two 9mm's. And yet, I often hike and camp, especially in the summer, with nothing more than my S&W M63 22lr revolver. Therefore, I guess I bet my life on a 22lr from time to time. To answer your question, I would go with a hyper-velocity hollow point, that cycles through your rifle reliably, and is accurate to the point of aim. I small game hunt a lot with a 22lr rifle and the three rounds that definitely make the most tissue damage are the CCI Stinger, Remington Yellow Jacket, and the new Winchester Xpediter. In your case, I would have to eliminate the Yellow Jacket because of the cone shaped bullet. They do not feed best in semi-auto guns. But either the Stinger or Xpediter should function well, and provide sufficent damage. Buy a box of both and see which ones your rifle likes best. That would be the winner.
don't forget about remington viper, never had any problems with those.
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Old 08-01-2011, 10:54 PM
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While one shot from a 22 is not a good "man stopper". Ten shots from 22 ain't too bad. I would use Stingers or Yellow Jackets, but I really don't know if they will make much difference. Good luck!
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:20 PM
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My 2 cents is CCI Stingers because they are extremely reliable in the 15-22 and have more energy from muzzle to 100 yards than most other 22LR loads. Because the recail is nothing on the 15-22 accurate rapid fire is very doable. Aim center mass and dump your mag as fast as you can into em and I'm pretty sure they won't be much of a threat anymore. Just get out to the range and practice. You can shoot the 15-22 pretty damn fast without getting off target. Don't know why people are mentioning different calibers, the op clearly is only asking about .22LR.
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:47 AM
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don't forget about remington viper, never had any problems with those.
the Viper is essentially a solid Yellow Jacket--i also have shot both out of my 15-22 but the accuracy is pretty spotty with those rounds
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:37 AM
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Besides what all the detractors say, the .22 rimfire has killed a lot of people in its time, and while not the first choice of most, it is as deadly as any other gun. In a SD situation, a rapid group firing of multiple shots, all put on target, is key.
Personally, I would stick with the solid point bullets, and think penetration. I wouldn't focus too much on bullet performance.
When funds allow, think about upgrading. You can still find some great deals here and there, police trade ins, that sort of thing.
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Old 08-02-2011, 07:01 AM
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.22LR will certainly cause fatal wounds. That's not the point. Unless we're talking execution style at the back of the neck these wounds cause no incapacitation in less than minutes or days. We're seeking instant incapacitation in defensive situations. Otherwise the assailant will continue to fight.

Read about the 1986 FBI gunfight in Maimi. Should be plenty of sources on the web. Both bad guys took fatal gunshots early in the fight. Problem was they weren't fatal fast enough and they went on to kill 2 of the FBI agents, seriously wound 3, and hit 2 more. 7 of the 8 agents took hits.

The "gunstore magic" headshot struck Matix (bad guy) twice in the neck and head in the first few seconds of the gunfight. An ineffectual cartridge in this case: .357 Magnum. Thru the car window, but still *******s better than .22LR. Took him out of the fight. For a while...

Penetration and damage are the criteria. Penetration is paramount. Shotguns will cause fatal wounds, but without the penetration to reach vital organs incapacitation usually ain't fast enough here too.

Save the .22LR hollow points for rats.

-- Chuck
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Old 08-02-2011, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Save the .22LR hollow points for rats.
Just offer your invader a cup of coffee or a beer, give him your money and gun since the .22 can't stop squat.
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Old 08-02-2011, 08:49 AM
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Just as personal experience I KNOW a 22 is enough to take down an intruder. My grandpa had an 8shot revolver he kept next to his bed (not the best place in houston) and someone broke in and 4 shots and the burgler was down. Just a little piece of confidence.
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:51 AM
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Just offer your invader a cup of coffee or a beer, give him your money and gun since the .22 can't stop squat.
As my avatar suggest Mr Intruder may get my gun and kill me .22LR or whatever cal. but not until I have used every round in the gun on him. He will for sure not live long enough to enjoy any coffee or a beer.
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:51 AM
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I posted some accuracy and chono data in another thread (see link below).

Overall, I was real impressed with the CCI Stinger and CCI Velocitors. Both real accurate and both very snappy in the rifle.

Ammot Test with Chrono Data
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Old 08-02-2011, 10:46 AM
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as posted earlier--if the .22 is all you have then you are thinking correctly in the questioning what rounds to use--and as stated several times we really cannot answer the question with a specific brand...because everyone on this forum can tell you some rifles are more picky than others about ammo!

we are all beating a dead horse here--what it boils down to is pick up several of the suggested ammo types and SHOOT THEM!!! you have to see what is going to be reliable in your specific rifle with you loading the magazines--because you are staking your life on the rifle cycling PERFECTLY in the moment you need it...

This also raises another question--are you storing it loaded? is it locked up? are you even going to be able to get to it in ANY scenario? these are a little bit more important than ammo type in my opinion...because there are fewer things more useless than an unloaded firearm locked in a closet at 3am...
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:00 AM
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Wow, there are a lot of cowboys that participate in this thread. I think a common misconception about self defense firearm discharge is that you need to put the person down forever and always. In reality, if you are using a firearm for self-defense, it is suppose to be able to help you escape.(This is only for those people who are not Peace Officers or Military personnel. )

I don't know of a crook who has been shot that looked down and thought," gee, that looks like a .22lr gun wound. Im gonna be fine!"

I personally keep the CCI Stingers in my firearms at home. But I think any round nose bullet that is not a bulk manufactured round, should do just fine.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:53 AM
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Wow, there are a lot of cowboys that participate in this thread. I think a common misconception about self defense firearm discharge is that you need to put the person down forever and always. In reality, if you are using a firearm for self-defense, it is suppose to be able to help you escape.(This is only for those people who are not Peace Officers or Military personnel. )
There is no duty to retreat while inside your own residence in North Carolina. Same for many other states.
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dragon88 View Post
There is no duty to retreat while inside your own residence in North Carolina. Same for many other states.
Yeah, I was NOT commenting about in-home defense. I was thinking about more CCW issues than in home fighting. I should have been more specific, I apologize.
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  #32  
Old 08-02-2011, 12:13 PM
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The hotter loads (the heaviest you can) from CCI or Aguila, or for that matter the standard fare from Eley or RWS. Reliability over velocity.
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:08 PM
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Aguila Interceptor
  • 40 grain copper plated solid lead bullet.
  • Muzzle velocity - 1470 fps.
  • Muzzle energy - 192 ft/lbs.
CCI Velocitor
  • 40 grain copper plated hollow point bullet.
  • Muzzle velocity - 1435 fps.
  • Muzzle energy - 183 ft/lbs.

CCI Stinger
  • 32 grain copper plated hollow point bullet.
  • Muzzle velocity - 1640 fps.
  • Muzzle energy - 191 ft/lbs.
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  #34  
Old 08-02-2011, 01:45 PM
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Is the Aguila Interceptor as clean as the CCI loads?
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazykg85 View Post
Is the Aguila Interceptor as clean as the CCI loads?
i have had exceptional luck with Aguila ammunition....NO FTF issues with them in either my 15-22 or a formerly owned Walther P22...good quality a great bulk prices when on sale

still prefer Federal/CCI/Winchester...but a local dealer sells me Aguila at a substantial discount ( buying a high end handgun with cash has advantages!)
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazykg85 View Post
Is the Aguila Interceptor as clean as the CCI loads?
Probably not, but it doesn't matter since we are talking about self defense purposes here.
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon88 View Post
This is a complete oxymoron.


.22lr has no "stopping power".

The thought of police responding to an incident and finding a perp with 25 little holes in him being held down by a 15-22-wielding homeowner is somewhere between comical and tragic.
That's not what he asked...
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  #38  
Old 08-02-2011, 04:16 PM
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I like the aguila stuff. Its a little pricey, and hard to find, but its great. I've tried interceptors, super maximum hollow, and round. All were good.

I think the super maximum are the highest fps on the market right now (any brand), but they are lighter bullets, more like a stinger on speed.

I have heard people refer to aguila hot loads as fast and wild, but I don't think they are any worse than any other hot load ammo I've tried accuracy wise.
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  #39  
Old 08-02-2011, 06:02 PM
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I haven't read the entire thread so pardon if this has already been posted.

I don't know if this is still the case, but my older boxes of CCI Velocitor ammo, are marketed as Gold Dot bullets with expansion suitable for varmits. Here is a ballistic gelatin test of the Velocitor's that shows expansion.
Velocitor Ballistic Gel Test

And here is the main page of the site with all of their 22lr gelatin tests.
.22LR Ballistic Gelatin Tests
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Old 08-02-2011, 08:34 PM
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E6type,

What do you know or expect muzzle velocities to be from pistols? I would guess 1100 fps from 4-6 inch barrels, in best cases, maybe only 900s from 2,0 inch barreled revolvers.

Thanks,
Niklas

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Originally Posted by E6type View Post
Aguila Interceptor
  • 40 grain copper plated solid lead bullet.
  • Muzzle velocity - 1470 fps.
  • Muzzle energy - 192 ft/lbs.
CCI Velocitor
  • 40 grain copper plated hollow point bullet.
  • Muzzle velocity - 1435 fps.
  • Muzzle energy - 183 ft/lbs.

CCI Stinger
  • 32 grain copper plated hollow point bullet.
  • Muzzle velocity - 1640 fps.
  • Muzzle energy - 191 ft/lbs.
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  #41  
Old 08-02-2011, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiklasP View Post
E6type,

What do you know or expect muzzle velocities to be from pistols? I would guess 1100 fps from 4-6 inch barrels, in best cases, maybe only 900s from 2,0 inch barreled revolvers.

Thanks,
Niklas
Yes, from what I've read about .22 rifle vs pistol velocities that would be an accurate guess.
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  #42  
Old 08-02-2011, 10:53 PM
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all this data aside...i will still keep my HK USP full of Hornady nearby...i will save the .22 for raccoons/possums/beercans
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbulladdikt View Post
all this data aside...i will still keep my HK USP full of Hornady nearby...i will save the .22 for raccoons/possums/beercans
Agreed, the boogie man gets 00 buck if he wants to come inside.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E6type View Post
Agreed, the boogie man gets 00 buck if he wants to come inside.
Yep. Buck from me a .45 hollows from my wife. Front sight on pistol is in process of being replaced lol

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Old 08-03-2011, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuds03 View Post
Yep. Buck from me a .45 hollows from my wife. Front sight on pistol is in process of being replaced lol

USP! Excellent choice!! I LOOOOOOVE my .40 compact--added the HK factory Green Dots to mine--
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Old 08-03-2011, 01:22 AM
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A .22, used by a cool shot can work beyond its size. I have seen quite a few instances as a LEO where it did. Not to say something bigger wouldn't be better, but still....

Whenever I see these .22 for self defense threads, I always think back to the President Reagan shooting, and the way people were dropping like flies at the shots. Then again, tough old Reagan didn't even know he was shot...

Larry
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Old 08-03-2011, 03:58 AM
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while I have a mossy 500 by my bead and a 40s&w an .357mag in the night stand all of my .22s are loaded with CCi Stingers and Aquilla Supper max. Just incase thay happen to be the closest. Ofcorse the 30-30 is anouther option :-)
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Old 08-03-2011, 12:14 PM
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After looking at Gelatin results at brassfetcher.com, I would go with either the CCI Velocitors or Aguila SSS (assuming that they function reliably in your rifle of course). The Velocitors have a nice balance of expansion and penetration. The SSS penetrates deeply and yaws/tumbles once and should do a fair bit of damage. Reliability is the single most important factor though, and if you have any malfunctions with them then you need to try something else. If I was 100% betting my life on a 22 rim-fire I would likely invest in some very good Lapua / RWS / etc Biathlon or other competition ammo. You might pay $8-15 a box of 50, but it should be about the most reliable rim-fire ammo that you can buy.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with a 22 LR rifle used in a defensive role in a very limited set of circumstances (people with limited hand strength, need to limit penetration of missed shots as much as possible, etc). The big advantage is that you can afford to practice a lot with it and get good. There was a time when all that I had was an Iver Johnson TP22, and religiously shot a minimum of 500 rounds a week with it. You have to plan to make multiple neck and face shots, fast, under stress and in bad lighting 100% of the time.

That said, under normal circumstances a 22 would not be my first choice though. I would bet that if you crawl the pawn shops you can pick up an ugly used Mossberg / Revelation / New Haven 500/600 pump in 12 or 20 gauge for around $100-125.
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  #49  
Old 08-03-2011, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revolvergeek View Post
After looking at Gelatin results at brassfetcher.com, I would go with either the CCI Velocitors or Aguila SSS (assuming that they function reliably in your rifle of course). The Velocitors have a nice balance of expansion and penetration. The SSS penetrates deeply and yaws/tumbles once and should do a fair bit of damage. Reliability is the single most important factor though, and if you have any malfunctions with them then you need to try something else. If I was 100% betting my life on a 22 rim-fire I would likely invest in some very good Lapua / RWS / etc Biathlon or other competition ammo. You might pay $8-15 a box of 50, but it should be about the most reliable rim-fire ammo that you can buy.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with a 22 LR rifle used in a defensive role in a very limited set of circumstances (people with limited hand strength, need to limit penetration of missed shots as much as possible, etc). The big advantage is that you can afford to practice a lot with it and get good. There was a time when all that I had was an Iver Johnson TP22, and religiously shot a minimum of 500 rounds a week with it. You have to plan to make multiple neck and face shots, fast, under stress and in bad lighting 100% of the time.

That said, under normal circumstances a 22 would not be my first choice though. I would bet that if you crawl the pawn shops you can pick up an ugly used Mossberg / Revelation / New Haven 500/600 pump in 12 or 20 gauge for around $100-125.
As stated before...dont discount a .410 with the right loadout--i have seen what the PDX ammo can do to steel at close range--not as dramatic as a 12 but might be more economical

Think thast the point here is--eat bologna sandwiches for a week or two and scratch together $150 and get a shotgun instead of staking your safety on a .22 longterm
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Last edited by Redbulladdikt; 08-03-2011 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 08-03-2011, 12:43 PM
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A .22 LR handgun has been and is being used by our U.S. military special forces. This example from a special 50-pistol Mk II overrun from a Ruger contract with the Navy SEALs is a case in point. This gun was manufactured in 1987. The receiver/barrel is stainless with a black phosphate finish; the bolt, trigger and medallion on the right grip are also blackened. The base for the front sight is thinner than standard, probably to accept a slip-on-and-twist bayonet-mount style suppressor. No special markings were requested by the SEALs. If a suppressor was used, I suspect subsonic ammo was employed.

This gun provides a good way to take down sentries with a shot to the base of the skull - it's also very good for covert assassinations. Don't sell the .22LR short; for certain purposes it's ideal.

John

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