Guys,

Do you know how I can get my hands on a PA M4 with kill flash?

I live in Holland and they wont ship overseas, but i really want one.

I dont have the money to spend on a real Aimpoint, but I like the single dot and the looks of it. I had a cheap chinese copy, but after 70 shots it started to turn off by itself every other shot.

Are there any other dealers (that you guys know off) that are willing/able to ship overseas?

Well first, you can't even get it now period because they're sold out; I believe Marshall has indicated that they'll be back in stock very soon (next week) provided it doesn't get stuck in customs.

Unfortunately the Primary Arms M4 is only sold by Primary Arms themselves as they personally contracted a factory in China to build it under their own specifications. You'll likely going to need to buy it used from a private seller on AR15.com when it appears or have a friend/family in the USA order and ship it to you. There should be no export restrictions on it so it should be a fairly easy thing to do.

Alternatively you can probably order a Vortex Red Dot instead from Optics Planet. I believe they can ship internationally. You just won't have the option for a Killflash.

not sure what the killflash exactly is, but i wanted it.

How good is the Vortex?

I hear great thing about the PA. I have no relatives in the US (unfortunatly). A lot of companies dont ship here and the market here is quite small and the prices reflect that.

Killflash is there to eliminate glare reflecting off the front of your red dot when outdoors. For plinking and range purposes, there's really no point to have it.

I'd consider the Vortex a step up from PA's stuff. They're designed to compete with Aimpoint at a bargain price whereas PA's stuff are intended to be Aimpoint clones. Vortex also has a Lifetime warranty and are actually being used by the LAPD and Chicago PD.

That said there are still features on it people dislike like the placement of the buttons etc. Definitely worth researching it on the other AR15 forums.

Out of curiosity, how much are Aimpoints on that side of the pond anyway?

They go for € 500 (micro) - € 700 (comp M4) ($ 800 - $ 1100)

But if we buy from the states for your prices it would be arount € 400 - € 600

(with the current exchange rates)

George at rrages.com sells the M4. I don't know if he ships to Holland or not, but George is a good guy to do business with.

Aimpoint M4 Clone Red Dot Sight

I thought about recommending rrages too, until I scrolled to the bottom of their home page where it states in big and bold letters that they won't ship overseas.

LOL! Well there ya go!

This isnt gonna make it easier.
Might just send RRages an email asking if he would bother to ship them all the way over for me

Tell George that the guys at SW Forum recommended him to you for a little help.

When they come back in stock, you can send me the money and shipping costs via Paypal and I will ship it to you.

I am always willing to help someone from this forum, I love these people. I would honestly not have any problem doing that for you.

i checked it out....and there is no Federal Restriction on that particular item--EOTech and Trijicons are a no-no apperantly

should be good to go Yeti

__________________
Overkill is Underrated

Thanks guys!, its great to see how helpfull people here are. Soupy offered to help me aswell.

If I cant sort it out with George from RR, i'll get back to you.

I forgot about federal restrictions. I just figured the business wasn't set up to ship internationally. Good thing you checked for me!

Guys,

need your advice once more.

The Vortex optics have export restrictions aswell.

So here are my 3 options.

1: Wait for the PA M4 to get back in stock and get one of the nice members who offered to ship it to me. (total cost incl VAT € 150)

2: Order a Vortex one from a store in Holland, just found it yesterday) at € 200

3: Buy a 2nd hand Aimpoint Comp M4 (with killflash and rubber covers) from a Dutch soldier who used it in Afghanistan. Has some exterior marks, but works perfectly for € 400

What would you guys do?

Id go with the aimpoint obviously if its in your budget.
Im using a vortex sparc myself.

If it were for use only on the 15-22... I would buy the Vortex local and be done with it. And if Aimpoint are that difficult to get a hold of in Holland then I would buy the Aimpoint too.

Just wondering... Can MidwayUK not ship their optics to Holland?

The Aimpoint is in budget, its just a matter of worth the extra bucks.
There might be a future AR15 in the planning, but not sure yet.

@Phil: Not sure, gonna check it out.

And once again a shop that doesnt ship overseas.

Im just gonna go for the 2nd hand aimpoint and call it a battlescarred version

that is a STEAL on the Aimpoint...and it will work on the AR-15 for sure!

__________________
Overkill is Underrated

Since you are going to get a big AR15 (I assume you will, everyone does eventually), the Aimpoint was the right choice. I wish I had the budget for one, even used.

That being said, I am also sure the PA or the Vortex also would have worked just fine for an AR15, but c'mon, who doesn't want a nice Aimpoint?

This is probably a US State Department and Commerce Department technology export control issue - ITAR. No offense to anyone, but I would not be the straw buyer or seller of second hand stuff to a party outside the US unless I was clear on all ITAR issues. ATN optics has a good list of government links to read.

ATN: Export Information - Night Vision Goggles, Night Vision Scopes, Binoculars, Riflescopes, Laser Devices

well that sucks.

Anyway i just bought that 2nd hand aimpoint.
Will post some pictures of this unique battle scarred version

It was brought to my attention recently that my local LEO office has started to use Vortex optics and transition away from the Aimpoints--if they liquidate them at a great discount i will let everyone know!

Also a great stamp of approval on Vortex if these guys like them!

__________________
Overkill is Underrated

The postman came with a package from Belgium with a nice present inside.

My very own battlescarred (been in Afghanistan) Comp M4.

On first hand it looks great, the dot is crisp and the brightness is amazing, from nearly impossible to see to extremely bright for full sun conditions (not that we've seen the sun in a week or so, stupid rain).

Cant be happier, gonna try it out on the range next friday.

Here is a picture, after that one the camera died, need to charge it.

Netjesss!!

Very nice man, take some more shots when its on your 15-22

You have gotten a great sight. Suggest getting a set of flip up lens covers for your sight.


Antifed is correct. I work with the ITAR issues. The laws applies to businesses, employees, and individuals. Good intentions can cause big problems.

Aim small,

tat

i know, but can I import those?
And where can I order them?