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  #1  
Old 09-24-2011, 09:22 AM
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Default Red dot mounting preference

My question to everyone is where do you prefer your red dot on the rail? I have a Primary Arms M4 red dot and I have it mounted towards the back of my 15-22. It works good for me but I have seen people mount red dots very far forward on the rail, and in the middle I was wondering if it makes any difference or if it's just a personal preference thing?
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:35 AM
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it comes down to eye relief and then preference... most reddot execpt for most multi-x's have unlimited eye relief. so really its just up to you and how it feels.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:52 AM
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the closer your dot is from your eye, the easier it is to pick up quickly.
if your shouldering technique is perfect - but who's is? - it shouldn't matter: your dot would be immediate on target.
In the real world, we don't always have that perfect line of eye-dot-target. With the dot up close, you have more room for error in misalignement and still see the dot, and quickly correct your aim.
With the dot further away from your eye, you have a fair chance of not seeing your dot - due to misalignement - and you have to search your dot first, before you can even start aiming.

I used to see a lot of (secundary) dots on the handguard of rifles in IPSC, but now most are placed on a angled mount on the receiver.
Most shooters do seem to find this the faster solution.
This way you also have less chance of damaging your dot when engaging baricades.
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:07 AM
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The Army tests with the M68 CCO sight (Aimpoint CompM) demonstrated the farther from the eye the easier it is to pickup the dot and transitions between multiple targets is faster. Probably because shooters are already accustomed to focusing on the front sight. If you shoot the accepted best "stock weld" of nose to charging handle the sight acquisition and consequent dot acquisition is automatic.

Individuals may find different locations work better for them, but far forward sight and nose to charging handle is the place to start for the vast majority of us.



On the M&P15-22 with a full length rail you can mount it right behind the rear sight.

Here's my pair (my old primary Bushmaster 5.56mm M4 Carbine and 4/rount M&P15-22 trainer):



On rifles with rails only on the receiver push the sight out as far as you can.

Once you find the best configuration set up your duty ant training rifles the same way.

-- Chuck
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Old 09-24-2011, 11:02 AM
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I mount mine as far back as I can, right next to my rear BUIS. I do this because it allows a greater FOV through the glass.

Think of it like looking through a toilet paper tube. Put it right up to your eye and how much can you see through the tube vs holding your arm all the way out and looking through it?

Also, when mounted farther forward on the rail, you are reducing the total angle you can see the dot from, effectively canceling the benefit of red dots being parralax free.
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:04 PM
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I keep mine centered over the magazine well in order to keep the weight of the front of the rifle. It also allows for a wider field of view.

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Old 09-24-2011, 02:26 PM
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I mount mine far forward on the receiver. LaRue Tactical makes some of the best mounts for these sights, and that's where they show mounted...



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Old 09-24-2011, 02:28 PM
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I could see my red dot right away with my setup.
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:53 PM
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I know this is prolly gunna sound dumb, but I've always felt that having the sighting system moved further back was for being more accurate at distance because having it closer to your eye allways you to more chose angle, height, etc. I've also always felt that having the sighting system more to the front was about having a quicker target acquistion and being able to place on target at closer distances. I've got mine located like right at the point in he rail were it's that thick block were it's pieced together
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:54 PM
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Mounting it forward does not reduce your FOV when shooting two eyes open, which is the proper way to maximize use of a red dot sight. The biggest mistake most people do with RD's is that they treat it like a scope; it's not. With an unlimited eye relief rating on 1x RD sights, you're allowed to mount it pretty much anywhere you want where there is rail space, but by mounting it too close you end up getting a blind spot from the tube of the RD with both eyes open. Mounting it close may appear to increase FOV when shooting with just one eye because you've already limited yourself to shooting through only the RD tube rather than letting both your eyes process what's ahead and allow the red dot the 'float' over your targets.

Of course in the very end it will be dependent on one's personal preference, but I feel like many folks who go with RD sights should've actually went for 1-4x Scopes instead based on their shooting styles.

Last edited by soupy; 09-24-2011 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soupy View Post
Mounting it forward does not reduce your FOV when shooting two eyes open, which is the proper way to maximize use of a red dot sight. The biggest mistake most people do with RD's is that they treat it like a scope; it's not. With an unlimited eye relief rating on 1x RD sights, you're allowed to mount it pretty much anywhere you want where there is rail space, but by mounting it too close you end up getting a blind spot from the tube of the RD with both eyes open. Mounting it close may appear to increase FOV when shooting with just one eye because you've already limited yourself to shooting through only the RD tube rather than letting both your eyes process what's ahead and allow the red dot the 'float' over your targets.

Of course in the very end it will be dependent on one's personal preference, but I feel like many folks who go with RD sights should've actually went for 1-4x Scopes instead based on their shooting styles.
I agree with 99% of this post. The one thing I disagree with is mounting it forward to avoid the blind spot. I have found that when my red dot is more forward on the rifle, it actually creates a larger blind spot then having it farther back.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:44 AM
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I have shot for years now with red dots on my pistols and those are out at arms length, so it just "felt" natural for me to have my sight farther out. And i think that is the thing about it, it should fell comfortable to you, I am not the one aiming for you or pulling the trigger
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
I mount mine as far back as I can, right next to my rear BUIS. I do this because it allows a greater FOV through the glass.
Another misconception.

There is no "field of view" thru these 1x (unmagnified) sights if employed properly. They're designed to shoot with both eyes open where your field of view runs fully from left to right, not just thru an aperture. The dot is "just out there" in your normal binocular vision.

Close the front cover. FOV thru the sight just dropped to zero yet the dot is still out there on the target and you'll still hit it. You should not see the sight itself, just the dot if both eyes are open.

If you're closing one eye both covers have to be open, of course, but you also give up the benefits of binocular vision and target acquisition. But even here there is no benefit having the sight up close to your eye as the body tends to block much more of your vision. Thru the lens FOV is undeniably greater but total FOV is less because the sight is blocking more of it when it's close. But you shouldn't be closing one eye anyway.

Takes very little practice to acquire the both eyes open technique and most folks can do it with iron sights as well.

Cross-eye dominant guys will need more practice.

-- Chuck
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Old 09-25-2011, 01:17 PM
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I can only speak from personal experience, but mounting it further forward on the rail does not make the sight body disappear from your view. In fact, I have found the opposite to be true.

I do shoot with both eyes open, and when I was saying FOV I was talking about the amount of real estate visible through the glass of the red dot. When I mount my red dot forward on the rail, I get this sight picture, where the blue is the sight body image created from my right eye, and green is the sight body image created by my left (and obviously not drawn to scale):



Notice that the green sight body is due to the sight being in the peripheral vision of my left eye. This blocks and distracts my vision from concentrating on the target and lining up the dot where I need it to be.

When I mount it closer to my eye, the sight picture becomes this:


Notice that in the second picture, the green sight body is almost non-existent due to the fact that my it is now almost out of range for my left eye's peripheral vision. This allows me to actually see my target and its surroundings much better, with less interference from the "ghosting" of the sight body.

Again, this is all just my experience when trying to figure out where to put my red dot. If people aren't bothered by seeing the red dot body and prefer it farther forward on the rail, then do it and I wont hold it against you. But for me, I get the clearest and best vision from having the red dot farther back for the reasons I described here.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:03 PM
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Keep trying, you shouldn't see the sight body with both eyes open, the brain just uses what it sees with the other eye and ignores what it can't see with the dominate eye. Sure you can see the sight body if you're looking for it, but you're really just looking for the dot.

Try this with the front cover closed (occluded) to force the eye.

-- Chuck
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:58 PM
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I tried what you suggested, as far forward on the rail as possible and then again on the rear where I normally keep it. The sight body is still visible.

I actually used to do neuroscience research, and the brain does not work that way. You will see ghosts of the red dot body whether they are on the forward or rear end of the rail. You can choose to ignore them, but they are always there, just like how your nose is always in your view. If you can get used to them being there and you like the optic up front, then that is where you should keep your red dot. I personally find the optic extremely obstructing on the front of the rail, and I prefer it on the rear where it is less in my vision.
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