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View Poll Results: Which look do you like better?
Larger M4 handguard 31 37.80%
Smaller CAR handguard 51 62.20%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 10-11-2011, 07:33 PM
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Default S&W M&P 15-22 M4 / CAR Conversion

I know I am one of many who wanted a basic standard military issue M4 / CAR style .22 who has pondered the question, the Colt M4 Carbine .22 or the Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22? I always liked the clean look of the standard issue military M4 / CAR but was limited in choices in .22 caliber. It was either the Colt which looked the part but the quality was not there, the S&W which had the quality but the look was not correct, or an AR15 conversion which has both the look and quality but at a high price. Although I do like all the awesome add-ons available and will one day build myself a tricked out 15-22 that cost 6 times what I paid for the original weapon, lol, the idea here is a clean, simple look, keeping as true to standard military issue as possible.

When I wanted a M4 / CAR style .22 to use for target shooting, plinking and teaching my children to shoot, I had looked at the Colt, the S&W, and the AR-15 with either a conversion kit or full .22 upper. When I examined the Colt I was NOT impressed at all with the quality, especially the non-functioning parts placed on it only for looks and I was also not interested in converting an AR-15 due to the high total cost. I liked the quality of the S&W M&P 15-22 but was told by several local gun shops that there was no way to convert it to make it look like the M4 or the Colt. After a bit of internet research I was pleased to find the conversion was possible and was determined to prove them wrong.

So I chose what I felt was the best of the three choices. Considering price, quality of construction and materials, weight and functionality, I chose the S&W M&P 15-22 ($459) and set out to convert it to look as close to an M4 / CAR as possible. With limited local resources, (which is a nice way of saying with no help from disinterested local gun shops because it was only a .22), and despite the lack of two obvious details, the forward assist and the dust cover, which in my opinion are a fair trade off to gain the quality of the S&W over the Colt or beat the high price of a converted AR15, I scoured the internet, the gun show and local shops for the necessary parts to make this possible.

I'm sure most of you know how to do the conversion but I will briefly describe the process for those who need somewhere to start. First I removed the barrel nut with the use of a homemade barrel nut wrench ($3.50 and about an hour of time to fabricate) using a 2' piece of black steel 3/4" pipe which I found plans for on the internet. BTW don't waste your time with the PVC option, I tried the PVC option first and kept shearing off the tips, and yes I had them seated completely and they fit perfectly, its just not strong enough. I suggest Shooboy's ShooWrench and Tacticool22's Barrel Nut Wrench if you don't feel like fabricating one at home. The barrel nut was replaced with Tacticool22's Free Float Handguard Converter ($25) which allows a delta ring assembly ($20) to be threaded on. The front sight is an ArmaLite A2 clamp-on front sight ($45) with custom shims to take up the space between the barrel and the front sight. Then a standard M4 handguard ($20), handguard cap ($2.50), sling swivel ($3.50), mil spec carry handle ($45) and a Hogue grip ($20) were added followed by a few hours at the range adjusting the vertical alignment of the front sight.

The one with the M4 handguard went to a friend with larger hands and I built another one with the CAR handguard for me. After comparing the two, I'm still undecided about the look of the M4 handguard although I think I am leaning towards the look of the CAR handguard with it's slimmer profile and I definitely prefer it's feel as it is more comfortable for my smaller hands. The nice thing about this conversion utilizing the clamp-on front sight is that you can use just about any diameter and length handguard you choose. Simple, clean and just what I wanted. I couldn't be happier.

If anyone needs any advice or help on doing this conversion, let me know and I will be glad to assist any way I can. Also any input on better ways to achieve this look or better parts available is certainly appreciated.


S&W M&P 15-22 w/ M4 handguard


S&W M&P 15-22 w/ CAR handguard


Colt M4 .22

Last edited by davnic66; 10-26-2011 at 03:52 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-11-2011, 07:59 PM
TrashmanNYC TrashmanNYC is offline
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Sweet. I like it.
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  #3  
Old 10-11-2011, 08:01 PM
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Looks great!!! You did a neat job.

But where is the flashlight, laser, foregrip, bipod, flip up sights, red-green dot sights, cheek plate on the butt plate, etc...????
LOL

Great clean look. I like it.

Guy22
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:09 PM
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I want one. That is just what I was thinking of doing with mine.
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  #5  
Old 10-11-2011, 08:26 PM
Bat Guano Bat Guano is offline
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Very nice. Don't know why S&W isn't making the exact same thing. Maybe they'll get to it.
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  #6  
Old 10-11-2011, 09:19 PM
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After building my 5.56 and throwing a bunch of accessories on it, I decided I wanted a simple M4 out of my 15-22. I just added a rail mounted fixed front sight and a carry handle. I really like this set up. It is nice to go back to the basics and shoot this way.

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Old 10-11-2011, 09:31 PM
.50AE .50AE is offline
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Very nice job. I did the same thing with mine and I'm just waiting on my carry handle from amazon. I used the true shot technologies front sight though.
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  #8  
Old 10-11-2011, 10:05 PM
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What? No pics?
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  #9  
Old 10-11-2011, 10:58 PM
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You can get a A2 sight for the 15-22 in either AR style or AK style that fits with no shimming required from fellow member FMJ50 (true shot technologies) here in the forums. Check the venders lists. Just a note to provide an alternative for an A2 sight. Davnic66, I really like the way you did yours with the new fore grip. Looks pretty hot. I just cut two inches off the factory fore grip on mine.
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  #10  
Old 10-11-2011, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmitch View Post
You can get a A2 sight for the 15-22 in either AR style or AK style that fits with no shimming required from fellow member FMJ50 (true shot technologies) here in the forums. Check the venders lists. Just a note to provide an alternative for an A2 sight. Davnic66, I really like the way you did yours with the new fore grip. Looks pretty hot. I just cut two inches off the factory fore grip on mine.
Thanks for the True Shot front sight info. I'm going to order one tomorrow as I'm going to build another one of these again soon. That would make life a lot easier. And thanks for the compliments, makes all the work worthwhile.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:42 PM
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You done good! Looks great!

Aim small,

tat
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:07 AM
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The best part of this mod is you can put any handguard on that you like.
Here is mine with a carbine MOE:

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  #13  
Old 10-12-2011, 11:17 AM
GeoffSFAs10 GeoffSFAs10 is offline
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Looks good. there is also a guy on here ( painterlyshooter i think ) who sells a nice dust cover. I have one my rifle if you wanting one. Im still trying to find a cheap broken plastioc airsoft m4 that i can try to take the forward assit button off of
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:08 PM
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Although I didn't change out the foregrip, I did go one step further and added a see-thru riser and compact scope. Now I can switch from open sights to scope, at will, and it really works good for me!
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Old 10-12-2011, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffSFAs10 View Post
Looks good. there is also a guy on here ( painterlyshooter i think ) who sells a nice dust cover. I have one my rifle if you wanting one. Im still trying to find a cheap broken plastioc airsoft m4 that i can try to take the forward assit button off of
I've might have seen that, it looks pretty good, but it attaches with double sided tape and uses a magnet as a release mechanism. Good idea, but not sure about the attachment as things with double sided tape tend to not work to well in the desert, as heat and dryness tend to wreak havoc on adhesives out here over time.

I've had bad luck using any type of tape adhesive products in Arizona as the extreme heat tends to make adhesives gluey. Even leaving it in the trunk of a car can be hot enough in the summer to melt the best of adhesive products. And what the sun and heat doesn't melt, the lack of humidity dries up and disintegrates over time.

Last edited by davnic66; 10-12-2011 at 04:54 PM.
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  #16  
Old 10-12-2011, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davnic66 View Post
I've might have seen that, it looks pretty good, but it attaches with double sided tape and uses a magnet as a release mechanism. Good idea, but not sure about the attachment as things with double sided tape tend to not work to well in the desert, as heat and dryness tend to wreak havoc on adhesives out here over time.
I think you are referring to Painterlyshotgroup, who makes and sells the dust cover. He uses automobile trim tape, which seems to hold up under just about any condition. Give him a shout and see what he has to say. I have the dust cover and it works very well, and looks great.
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
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What? No pics?
I'll be sure to post pics when I get the handle
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  #18  
Old 10-12-2011, 07:32 PM
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Davnic66,
That is one sweet looking job! Makes me feel like I
am in "The Nam" (Vietnam) and I've never been there.
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:25 AM
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Love the crisp, clean look...great work
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:28 AM
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Davnic --

Very nice conversion.

-- Chuck
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:58 PM
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I also like the somewhat plain M4 look as you can tell by the pic of my 15-22...
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:00 PM
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Very nice. You should take your rifle into those gun shops and let them know what can be done.
I like the M4 hand guard. It just feels better.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davnic66 View Post
I've might have seen that, it looks pretty good, but it attaches with double sided tape and uses a magnet as a release mechanism. Good idea, but not sure about the attachment as things with double sided tape tend to not work to well in the desert, as heat and dryness tend to wreak havoc on adhesives out here over time.

I've had bad luck using any type of tape adhesive products in Arizona as the extreme heat tends to make adhesives gluey. Even leaving it in the trunk of a car can be hot enough in the summer to melt the best of adhesive products. And what the sun and heat doesn't melt, the lack of humidity dries up and disintegrates over time.
I definitely understand. The tape I send with the cover is automotive VHB tape, not just run of the mill double sided tape. But certain things like solvents and extreme climates may prove problematic for the tape. I personally glued my dust cover on so its more permanently attached, however, I don't advocate doing that right away unless one is 100% sure they are happy and want the cover on the gun. The tape allows for a functional hold without being permanent.
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacticool22 View Post
Very nice. You should take your rifle into those gun shops and let them know what can be done.
I like the M4 hand guard. It just feels better.
I have pics of it on my phone and have showed the doubters and they are amazed at the look. Always coming at me with, "how'd you get the delta ring on there" and I always tell 'em, "tacticool22.com"
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Old 10-14-2011, 04:24 PM
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Just saw the poll, so I marked the CAR option. I have small hands, but in addition to that I am firmly in the "less is more" camp. Can't stand the big chunky M4 guards (just who's going to be doing all those successive full-auto mag dumps, anyway?); I don't even like the A2 pistol grips and have hunted down original A1 PGs to get away from them.

Similarly I prefer the old A1 integral handle and sights, even though I know the flat-top is theoretically more practical. But I run an ACOG on my 5.56 which works great, and I can stick my thumb through the handle and carry it just like I did 40 some years ago. Modular is nice!

I really like my 15-22, and can live with the flat-top and rail, but still think that they could sell a boatload of carbines like yours.
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Old 10-14-2011, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat Guano View Post
Just saw the poll, so I marked the CAR option. I have small hands, but in addition to that I am firmly in the "less is more" camp. Can't stand the big chunky M4 guards (just who's going to be doing all those successive full-auto mag dumps, anyway?); I don't even like the A2 pistol grips and have hunted down original A1 PGs to get away from them.

Similarly I prefer the old A1 integral handle and sights, even though I know the flat-top is theoretically more practical. But I run an ACOG on my 5.56 which works great, and I can stick my thumb through the handle and carry it just like I did 40 some years ago. Modular is nice!

I really like my 15-22, and can live with the flat-top and rail, but still think that they could sell a boatload of carbines like yours.
When I decided to set out and convert the 15-22, a friend with larger hands wanted one also, so I actually built the one with the M4 handguard for them and the one with the CAR handguard is mine, as I have smaller hands also. In addition, the smaller CAR handguard is easier for my kids to handle.

I can't imagine why S&W didn't come out with one like this to compete with Colt's version, S&W would dominate the market.
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Old 10-14-2011, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davnic66 View Post
I have pics of it on my phone and have showed the doubters and they are amazed at the look. Always coming at me with, "how'd you get the delta ring on there" and I always tell 'em, "tacticool22.com"
Thank you.
I glad S&W didn't come out with one like this to compete with Colt's version, that allows a small company to dominate the market.
BTW, I have come out with some stuff for Colt/H&K/Umarex the Ruger 10/22 the Mossberg and others.
If any of you have an idea to market, I am more than willing to listen.
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  #28  
Old 10-16-2011, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmitch View Post
You can get a A2 sight for the 15-22 in either AR style or AK style that fits with no shimming required from fellow member FMJ50 (true shot technologies) here in the forums. Check the venders lists. Just a note to provide an alternative for an A2 sight. Davnic66, I really like the way you did yours with the new fore grip. Looks pretty hot. I just cut two inches off the factory fore grip on mine.
I got the A2 front sight from True Shot Technologies - FMJ50, looks pretty good but there is only one screw to secure it to the barrel and that is also the attacment point for the sling swivel. I will be installing it soon and will post my findings asap. Looks like it will be real nice though.
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  #29  
Old 10-17-2011, 12:44 PM
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I hope S&W follows this forum, this would be a great addition to the line.
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  #30  
Old 10-17-2011, 01:07 PM
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I'm kind of surprised Brett248vista hasn't chimed in here. He also did a conversion. His also gives you an idea of how the conversion looks with the dust cover on...
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  #31  
Old 10-17-2011, 04:08 PM
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I like what you have done, once I get my M&P 15/22, I will be hitting you up for some advise. Very nice looking AR... Keep up the good work, I like seeing good AR builds..
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  #32  
Old 10-18-2011, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PainterlyShotgroup View Post
I'm kind of surprised Brett248vista hasn't chimed in here. He also did a conversion. His also gives you an idea of how the conversion looks with the dust cover on...
I do like the look with the dust cover. I had been thinking of getting one and was going to get one off an AR15 and try to figure a way to mount it but realized they are larger than the one for the 15-22. I would like one with the detail in it and metal so you hear the noise it makes when it flips open, but I don't think that's gonna be feasable, so I might just get one of yours and try it out.
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  #33  
Old 10-18-2011, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davnic66 View Post
I do like the look with the dust cover. I had been thinking of getting one and was going to get one off an AR15 and try to figure a way to mount it but realized they are larger than the one for the 15-22. I would like one with the detail in it and metal so you hear the noise it makes when it flips open, but I don't think that's gonna be feasable, so I might just get one of yours and try it out.
There was an aluminum one on ebay a while back. Someone had jumped on the forum and started a thread about it, but I haven't heard anything since.

The covers usually do smack the side of the receiver and make a crisp "whack" sound, however, it isn't metallic sounding.

I would like to get it set up where I can have them machined out of metal or plastic and mass produced. It would make things easier for me and hopefully workout to be less expensive in the end than me making them by hand.
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  #34  
Old 10-18-2011, 05:02 PM
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dustcover is something i want next aswell.

As for the handguard conversion, just order the stuff from Tacticool, amazing quality and I love the look it gives the rifle.
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  #35  
Old 10-18-2011, 05:04 PM
Brett248Vista Brett248Vista is offline
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Doug,

I was going to post photos, but you beat me to it
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  #36  
Old 10-18-2011, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Brett248Vista View Post
Doug,

I was going to post photos, but you beat me to it
Do you have any recent ones that show the different pin and magnet mount?
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  #37  
Old 10-18-2011, 06:15 PM
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I haven't taken any recently! I will do that
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  #38  
Old 10-18-2011, 07:34 PM
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Well, I didn't mean to hijack your thread davnic66. To get back on track here. Of the two, I like the M4 look. I like what Incredible Me did with the Magpul hand guard a lot as well. Nice job with that! It really got me thinking about doing a conversion myself. For now, I've gone so far as to cut the hand guards down about 2 1/2 to 3 inches. I have an A2 sight from TrueShotTechnologies to put on the end. So far I like the look. It seems to match my 5.56 better. I think eventually I will want to do a full conversion though...

Last edited by PainterlyShotgroup; 10-18-2011 at 09:47 PM. Reason: I'm an idiot
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  #39  
Old 10-18-2011, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PainterlyShotgroup View Post
There was an aluminum one on ebay a while back. Someone had jumped on the forum and started a thread about it, but I haven't heard anything since.

The covers usually do smack the side of the receiver and make a crisp "whack" sound, however, it isn't metallic sounding.

I would like to get it set up where I can have them machined out of metal or plastic and mass produced. It would make things easier for me and hopefully workout to be less expensive in the end than me making them by hand.
Cool, a metal one or even synthetic that has the embossed contours of a standard AR15 type dust cover would be awesome.
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  #40  
Old 10-18-2011, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PainterlyShotgroup View Post
Well, I didn't mean to hijack your thread davnic66. To get back on track here. Of the two, I like the M4 look. I like what Incredible Me did with the Magpul hand guard a lot as well. Nice job with that! It really got me thinking about doing a conversion myself. For now, I've gone so far as to cut the hand guards down about 2 1/2 to 3 inches. I have an A2 sight from TrueShotTechnologies to put on the end. So far I like the look. It seems to match my 5.56 better. I think eventually I will want to do a full conversion though...
No worries. I also like Incredible Me's conversion as well, actually one of the nicer looks I've seen. I went through the entire "post your pics" thread and there some rather impressive conversions. Definately got some good ideas for my next endeavor, which will be a high tech ultra modern tactical showpiece, lol.

Last edited by davnic66; 10-25-2011 at 08:23 PM.
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  #41  
Old 10-19-2011, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by PainterlyShotgroup View Post
Well, I didn't mean to hijack your thread davnic66. To get back on track here. Of the two, I like the M4 look. I like what Incredible Me did with the Magpul hand guard a lot as well. Nice job with that! It really got me thinking about doing a conversion myself. For now, I've gone so far as to cut the hand guards down about 2 1/2 to 3 inches. I have an A2 sight from TrueShotTechnologies to put on the end. So far I like the look. It seems to match my 5.56 better. I think eventually I will want to do a full conversion though...

I did the same mod as above. I really like the look of the 15-22 with the shorter fore grip. Taking two inches off and using the A2 sight gives the same sight radius as the factory sights and the balance of barrel length and fore grip length looks better. Thanks to Davnic66 for the idea. I really like my 15-22 now more than ever. And as far as a home defense gun, will someone looking down the barrel have time to ascertain whether it's .22 or .223 they're looking at? Personally I'd run for cover.

Added photo of my mod.

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  #42  
Old 10-20-2011, 06:57 PM
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The dust cover is the one thing I still need for my 15-22.
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  #43  
Old 10-24-2011, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnr5 View Post
The dust cover is the one thing I still need for my 15-22.
I really like that handguard. Would you please share the type/mfgr/where you got yours? Also, is it the same length as a M4 or CAR handguard? That would be cool if it was able to be switched out on the fly, but it looks like it probably uses a different cap on the end by the front sight. Thanks for any info you can share.
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  #44  
Old 10-25-2011, 04:19 PM
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Looks like an Magpul MOE carbine handguard, i have the same one
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  #45  
Old 10-26-2011, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incredible Me View Post
Looks like an Magpul MOE carbine handguard, i have the same one
It is a carbine-length Magpul MOE and can be swapped out for a standard mil-spec M4 handguard at the drop of a hat. I got mine at a local shop that sells on the internet as well. Coleman Tyler, AR15web.com -Best prices on all AR15, kits, parts, rifles I fastened a 10-24 screw through the handguard end cap and into the gas tube hole in the front sight base. This effectively eliminates the movement of the front of the forend that we get as a result of the barrel being smaller than the hole. I also have a mid-length handguard I can put on if I want to loosen the screws on the front sight base and move it forward a little bit. I run the carbine length so my 15-22 and my AR match each other.
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  #46  
Old 10-26-2011, 10:33 PM
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As an old USAF puke, I'm partial to the CAR(that's because, that the AR I carried when deployed w/S&W Mod 15 or 19)or a railed handguard AR.

Aim small,
tat
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  #47  
Old 11-01-2011, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnr5 View Post
The dust cover is the one thing I still need for my 15-22.
What front sight are you using? Is it the one from TrueShot Technologies with the bayonet lug ground off?
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  #48  
Old 11-02-2011, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davnic66 View Post
What front sight are you using? Is it the one from TrueShot Technologies with the bayonet lug ground off?
It looks like TrueShotTechnology's sight. If you contact FMJ50 he may be able to provide one with the lug intact. He owns TrueShotTechnology.
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  #49  
Old 11-03-2011, 03:34 PM
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Either the M4 or the CAR hand guard is good - - As long as you "Dura-Coat" it in.....


PINK!
Think Pink




Ron

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  #50  
Old 11-07-2011, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonJon View Post
Either the M4 or the CAR hand guard is good - - As long as you "Dura-Coat" it in.....


PINK!
Think Pink




Ron

Really don't know what to say about "pink" weapons, just doesn't seem right to me.
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