So I was at the range and the rangemaster and I were talking. Long story short, he made it sound like a "given" that a 10/22 would be more accurate than a 15-22.

I don't necessarily disagree but I don't think it's a no-brainer.

What do you guys think...

Out of the box, a 10/22 outperforms a 15-22 in accuracy? Yay or nay.

If not, what needs to be done to a 15-22 to 'hang' with a 10/22?

We don't get as many 15-22 specific aftermarket parts like barrels but we can drop in triggers and such. What could be modified on a 15-22 to increase accuracy?

Common consensus is that a bone stock, out of the box 10/22 will shoot 1 to 2" groups @ 50 yards. The 15/22 will match that.

depends on the model 10/22 but i would say they are equal for the most part

For what it's worth... American Rifleman did a comparison of all the black rifle .22s in their Dec 2010 issue. The Ruger outperformed the 15-22 in accuracy.

Ruger: Smallest group .62in. Largest 1.27in. Average .95in

15-22: Smallest group 1.08in. Largest 2.10in. Average 1.75in.

Lol....buzz kill

Don't shoot the messenger...

Whether the 10/22 is more accurate than a 15-22 is irrelevant. I don't think the 10/22 compares in the category of sheer pleasure. In the "fun" category, I don't think any other .22 rifle can compete with the 15-22.

Surely you can find something better to do with your 15-22 than shoot groups and worry about the size. Why is everyone so interested in "group size" anyway, and why would you attempt to modify a 15-22 to turn it into a target rifle?

apples to oranges.

meh - i get the apples to oranges but...

both 10 round (at least in Cali) 22lr semi-autos, economical entry cost, decent aftermarket options...

they have a lot in common - more in common than not I would say.

Only, you rock and roll with one and you sit and study with the other...

Just thought I'd throw this out there. The weekend that I purchased my 15-22, I spoke to a gunsmith about doing a buildup on a 10-22. He told me that if I bought a 10-22 from Wal-Mart, he would not touch it. He said that Wal-Mart guns are all bulk builds to less than industry standards and that things such a head space were no where to spec and that the guns were junk. He said the accuracy is sub standard and just absolutely worthless firearms. He said I needed a 10-22 from a true gun store, not a big box store such as Wal-Mart, Academy, Cabellas, Etc. I wonder if this is true and I wonder if S&W would lower their standards to supply Wal-Mart with 15-22's? I figure that this gunsmith was full of it IMHO.

I'd have to say, depending on what kind of accuracy you are looking for, for bullseye the Ruger has an edge. But for Combat the M&P has the edge. I guess you have to define the course outline first to see which one will have the advantage. As a range master since 1996, I have trained my guys for combat tactical situations, thus why I'm getting this M&P for training aid and also since I retired I don't get the free 5.56 ammo that I use to.. So now its coming out of pocket..

I am not a professional shooter by any means, but this is just my humble opinion on marskmanship and the two weapons in question. I did shoot competetively in NRA .22 contests in my teens using a Browning T-Bolt .22 and did quite well, winning many competitions and acquiring an impressive collection of trophies and awards and I also consistantly qualified as an expert marksman with the M16-A2 in the military and consider myself to be a "pretty good shot" for what it's worth.

I currently own the S&W 15-22 that I converted to a M4 / CAR style with open sights and have not used a scope on it as of yet. I have owned both the Ruger 10/22 Carbine and the Ruger 10/22 Sporter model with the walnut stock (the walnut Sporter stock is a little bit longer than the carbine stock and I believe adds a slight amount of accuracy, but that is proably just in my head because I just think the walnut sporter stock is nicer looking, lol). Other than changing the handguard on the 15-22 and adding a scope on the 10/22, both were "out of the box" with no other performance enhancements.

I have used both open sights and a $200 Nikon ProStaff 3-9x40 on the 10/22 and found for my purposes (casual target shooting and plinking cans and the odd potato or two) the 10/22 to be quite accurate. I could consistantly hit what I guess would be the size of a quarter (which I am happy with as a shot group) at around 50 feet with open sights and around 100-150 feet with the aforementioned scope.

With the 15-22 using open sights I seem to be able to hit the same quarter sized area at around 50 feet or so with what I consider the same shot consistency. By that I mean that I seem to get about the same amount of "strays" out of that quarter sized area, which I attribute to shooter error. I have not tried using a scope on the 15-22 yet, but I would assume that the accuracy would be about the same at the 100-150 feet range with the scope.

Now to be more specific about the last two paragraphs. Those quarter size shot groups were from the sitting position at a bench using a sandbag front rest to stabalize the weapon during sighting in at the outdoor range. That's the only time I use paper targets and actually gauge my shot groups for accuracy and size. After I get the weapon zeroed in, I usually don't go to the range. Living in Arizona we have lots of open desert which to go shooting in. We usually bring biodegradable clays, tin cans (yes, we police up after ourselves), or bags of potatoes which provide plenty of fun targets to shoot at. Also, I'd be plenty happy with either one for small game or varmint shooting if I was so inclined.

I sold my Ruger 10/22 Sporter after I bought the S&W 15-22 mainly because the 15-22 to me was just as accurate, easier to field strip and clean, has way more customizing possibilities and is just more of an all around "fun gun". I do like accuracy and even before I bought the 15-22 I planned on selling the 10/22 for a more accurate bolt action. I was planning on either another Ruger but was leaning more heavily towards the Browning.

So I guess the point of all my rambling, is..... 1.) Yes, out of the box the 15-22 can hang with the 10/22, and honestly, to me, the difference between the 10/22 and the 15-22 for the average shooter (me included) is negligible unless you have the thing clamped down in a bench vise and are splitting hairs..... so..... 2.) Pick the one you like best, considering its form and functionality for your purpose..... and..... 3.) If you want a really really accurate weapon, the best option IMO is bolt action all the way.

Hope that helped and after reading all I wrote, it appears I have way too much time on my hands, lol.

No question that the 15-22 can hang with the 10-22. I used both at a recent Appleseed event and got similar Rifleman qualifying scores with each using the same CCI SV ammo.

I've made some modifications to each, so it's not quite an out-of-the-box comparison:

15-22 Mods: Geiselle SSA trigger. ACOG sight. Removed endcap. Tightened barrel nut super tight with Shoo-rench prior to event.
10-22 Mods: Kidd trigger. VQ barrel. Leupold rimfire scope. Bubba'd cheek rest on stock for better sight alignment.

If I were shooting from a rest, I'd probably choose the 10-22 for marginally better accuracy. The 15-22 is perfect for Appleseed where "ease of use" (magazine changes, bolt lock/release, adjustable stock position, pistol grip etc) becomes equally important as accuracy given the time limits of each stage. The 15-22 is easier to clean.

My recommendation is to get both and continuously tinker with each them!

HAHAHAHA - truth

so does removing the end-cap really give the barrel a 'free-floating' status like a free-float conversion would?

Not sure.. a few months ago, I noticed that my 15-22 would give unpredictable groups when shooting off a rest or using a sling. I figured something was going on with the barrel, so I ditched the endcap and tightened the barrel nut with a wrench.

Now it shoots great, but I'm not sure which solution worked.

I would say yes it can. I have a savage 10-22 and I can hold same groups with both. But then again I really think that it comes down to the nut behind the trigger. The shooter will always be the biggest variable.

The guy putting down the guns sold by Wal-Mart, Cabalas, etc. is
either 1) ignorant or 2) a lier. Nuf said, case closed!

I hear ya Neezer, I have not really kept a log of my shot groups but I to have noticed that since I removed the end cap & tightened the barrel nut to the suggested 20 ft. lbs. that I can shred the center bulls-eye out of a 6" Shoot-n-See target @ 25 yds. ..... I am very happy with the performance of my 15-22.

i bet if you used some match ammo, you'd change your tune. and cleaning them also doesn't help



(this isn't directed toward anyone)
seriously, i love my 15-22, but lets not get all fanboi about it. a 10/22 is half the price of a 15/22. with another $150 in parts a 10/22 could out perform a 15/22 in every way but looking/operating like an AR.

so, we have to agree, its apple vs oranges.

Funny you ask. I have been shooting both a lot lately. Both with 25 round mags, same ammo, at hundred yards.
Out of the box I can shoot the Ruger a little bit better at that range. I am more used to the V and front post of the Ruger.
At a 100 yards, the 15-22 combat sites just are harder to shoot.
Put a TASCO 3x9 on them. The same scope on both. Shot 25 rounds pretty rapid. (CCI mini mags)
Both put rounds about the size of an apple.

So short story. I can shoot an out of box Ruger 10/22 better at 100 yards than a 15-22.
With a cheap scope at 100 yards. I would say about equal.

Fun Factor - 15-22!!!

Guy22

The 10/22 they used outperformed the 15-22 they used. My 10/22 with a gunsmith trigger job does not outperform my 15-22 with the JP spring set. They are pretty much the same but I prefer the 15-22. And, the 10/22 not staying open after the last shot has always bothered me - I consider it a safety issue.

I don't really get the whole "looks like an assault rifle but it's only a .22" craze. The ruger 10/22 is probably the most customizable .22 out there. It's probably the most commonly owned gun in the country. The 15-22 does nothing for me that the 10/22 does. I find that many people buy them to feel "tacticool". I like my AR. I've fired them, and they're fine, but so is my 10/22. And the 15-22 is just too much plastic for me. Feels like a toy.

the wallmart here orders there guns from sport south i dont think they have a stack of guns for wallmart and another stack for other gun shops

find a new gunsmith, that man is a moron. I've heard the SAME thing about Rem 700's....and it's just ****. The Rem 700 is just a bargin basement gun with poor machining no matter WHERE you buy it...as they are all the same guns. Walmart doesn't get anything different than your LGS

if you're 10/22 with a "gunsmith trigger job" can't out shoot a 15-22....well, somethings up. My 10/22 has much less in it than my mp15-22...and my 10/22 groups are half the size. Hell, my 522 grouped better than my 15/22 with both barrels! I hate i sold it, but it was just too damned heavy...

and how is the bolt not locking back any kind of safety issue??!??

If you lose count of your shots, then there could be a live round left in the chamber if you're not careful (and yes, I always manually lock the bolt after shooting, but it takes two hands). It's the one thing that I don't like about the 10/22.

I don't think anyone on this forum is claiming that the 15/22 is the most accurate rimfire rifle out there. I also don't think the 10/22 is the most accurate rimfire (even with cool mods). Both are nice semiauto's that are reasonably priced vs. their performance. It's "apples vs pears" (ie, they are similar, but slightly different)

For super accuracy, a 54 action Anschutz bolt gun with premium ammo will dust both the 15/22 and the 10/22 in target shooting. No question. Apples and oranges. However, for Appleseed-type shoots with 40 well-aimed shots in 4 minutes with magazine changes and position changes, you need a semiauto. I personally think the 15/22 is superior to the 10/22 for these events based solely on it's ease of use, even if it shoots quarter-sized groups instead of dime-sized groups off a rest at the range. YMMV.

"The guy putting down the guns sold by Wal-Mart, Cabalas, etc. is
either 1) ignorant or 2) a lier. Nuf said, case closed! "

I agree. Bad rumor to start.
No manufacturer is going to put out a inferior product on purpose and cause liability problems along with irrate customers.

DIY auto bolt release...
Auto bolt release for 10/22 - TheFiringLine Forums

always check your chamber. and always treat guns as loaded.

oh, and don't throw out a $2K Annie. a full Kidd with half the money will give it a run

you still need to manually lock the bolt before you can auto-release it.

I guess the group size is all there is unless you've got your own wide open spaces to go plinking in. So, range shooting is just about the most common type of shooting available - I'd rather go after tin cans and dirt clods and varmits, but bulls eye is about all that's available.

It's probably the most "Commonly owned gun in the country"???
Nope!!! Not by a long shot!!! LOL!!!
Marlin Model 60
Over 11 million sold.
1960 - now.
This is the gun most commonly owned. Do a liittle research and see why???
Guy22

Maybe so, but I have yet to see a Marlin 60 at the range. I don't know anybody who owns one, and I doubt they are as customizable as the 10/22.

I agree with the Marlin Model 60 outshooting the 10-22.

Qualified:
With the same type sights, my Marlin 60 and Marlin 99M1 both will out shoot my standard 10-22 with no mods.
My no mod 10-22 will out shoot my S&W 15-22.
My Savage Mark II will out shoot all the above.
My Green Mountain barrel and heavely modified 10-22 will out shoot all the above and will run my CZ-453 a close race, but not quite keep up with the 453.

All that being said, the 10-22 is sure a lot of fun playing with and doing the mods to it.

SOOOO....I just shoot all of them as much as possible.

Ahh, but boys love their toys!

__________________
Endeavor to persevere. <><

And my $.02 worth. After owning a 10-22 for 20 years I know my 10-22 will kill more gophers consistantly on any given day than my 15-22. Not shooting paper at known ranges but small targets and what you guesstimate ranges in varing terrain. That said I do love my 15-22 looks and fun to shoot factor over my 10-22 Of the two I like the 15-22 better. I will probably pass on my 10-22 to my oldest son just because I don't need as many .22 rifles as I have.

It would be easy to prove. The Wal-Mart/Cabelas, etc gun would have different part/SKU numbers. The Mfgrs would inventory the different units via part number differences.

I guessin' the gunsmith was whining cuz he can't get the same price discounts as the big guys...

Funny, I own all of these. I was quite disappointed I had to pay more than $400 for my 15-22. My Anschutz I picked up for $200. A 10/22 can be had for $180 and can be customized easily to be a tack driver. I wouldn't be surprised to see a custom 10/22 compete.

I have found several Kimbers that shoot well and have a friend that shoots nationally with a customized Kimber. For me, I like precision shooting so accuracy problems really bother me. The 15-22 is fun for my son to shoot, but not so much for me. I'd rather set up matches and light them with a shot or cut a playing card in half at 50 feet. Anyone can pop a balloon at 100 yards, so what's the thrill?

I also like Remington 541T's. Another good shooter.

i spoke with the mng all of there guns came from sport south i saw the catalog they ordered from. it was sports south