Looking into buying a 22lr assault rifle look-a-like and im leaning towards the gsg-5 but the m-4 vertions have peaked my intrest how do they stack up per say?

I was also questioning the same thing as you. I looked at the Colt M4 22, Sig, GSG-5, and the S&W 15-22. I ended up ordering the S&W after watching lots of videos and reading countless reviews on it. It seems to be very durable and not have too many problems. I also like that most AR 15 stuff fits on it. I have not shot any of them however. I'm just going by word of mouth and internet research.

I own both. I very much enjoy the GSG5 which is an early model, and mine's very accurate. That said, it is more finicky (FTF's) than the M&P and unless you like to and are equipped to "tinker" with the GSG's bolt set-up (tightening screws) and other potentially annoying minor details, the M&P is a much more reliable, trouble-free choice. There's also MUCH more to mod and tons of add-ons for the M&P.

the sig and gsg5 seem nice, but i would avoid the colt, mossberg, and hk

When I was looking into the M4 and the M&P15-22 I was told by 3 different dealers, that you are better off with the 15-22 because the M4 while looking like a regular AR15 doesn't have the same innards so to speak, and that all the skills you learn on the 15-22 will trade up when/if you decide to move over to .223/5.56

The advice paid off too, cause first time I went out shooting with it (first time rifle shooting too). my buddy handed me his LEO, 5.56 and I didnt make an *** of myself =)

The sig is a nice weapon, i have two friends with the gsgs they are both having probs i did some home work i really wanted the colt but when i found out that the ar triggers work in th m&p 15-22 meant that it was more tunable and the bolt realease worked on the smith and the take down was simple i was sold and needless to say im one very happy customer. glad i didnt go with brand x bottom line though get what you want and like but i know im very pleased with the m&p

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bodypiercing by Smith&Wesson

The 15-22 is the best AR-15 trainer you can buy. The others may look more tacticool or shoot a bit more accurate, but as a dedicated AR-15 trainer the 15-22 is the way to go. It field strips just like the AR-15 as far as take down pins and fire control group goes. It also feels like an AR-15 in hand.

If you want a more accurate .22 rifle then my opinion would be to go for a ruger or savage. If you want a more tacticool looking .22 go for the GSG or Sig. But if you want an AR-15 trainer go for the S&W M&P 15-22 you will not be disappointed.

15-22 was my choice (and clearly the best AR option), but I've certainly had a lot of fun shooting my dad's GSG too. Initially he had some FTF issues with it, but since I showed him how to carefully load the mags the 15-22 way (i.e. not using the load assist button to drop the rounds in), it's pretty much been flawless with CCI Blazers, and not too bad with Rem Goldens too.




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That's my opinion

Ditto, stay away from the Colt. The Sig is a nice 22LR rifle, one of my friends has it and it shots well and is well built. I was able to handle the Colt, never got to fire it. But the internals of the Colts are very much like an airsoft rifle in the build department. When I noticed the barrel was not solid but a thin tube, that was it for me. The M&P 15/22 is so solid when compared to the Colt and so very easy to clean and maintain. The Colt requires a major tear down to just clean the bolt. Again just my .02 cent.

Before I bought mine I looked into the colt. What sold me on the 15-22 was the last shot hold open.

The Colt M4 .22lr & HK 416 22lr are made by Umarex. Colt licensed it's good name to an airgun company.

A year ago, I wanted a dedicated .22lr AR platform. I had no idea what I was looking at. The salesman handed me a Colt M4 Ops and a M&P 15-22. The Colt felt reassuringly heavy. It looked the part. It had the Colt logo. I chose it over the M&P 15-22.

I shot it. Having no basis for comparison I thought it was ok. I found it odd that the manual stated that removing the bolt was not necessary. I found it even more odd that there was no easy way to remove the bolt for cleaning.

To separate the Colt upper from the lower, the instruction says to loosen the flash suppressor. I loosened it, and started to push a brush through. Remember the bolt doesn't come out, so cleaning from the breech is not possible. Pushing a rod through was annoying. Even touch the bolt, and it released, slamming into the brush.

I pushed, and all of a sudden the barrel dislocated from the receiver. The flash suppressor unscrewed from the barrel.

The tension provided from the tightened down flash hider is the only thing that holds the barrel in place. I'm mechanically inclined. I figured I'd fully disassemble it and fix it.

These pictures were taken after I wiped off the amazing amount of .22lr crud that built up in the action and on the bolt. Hosing it down with Gun Scrubber, as suggested in the manual, never really got it clean.


Looks good on the outside.


This is what's on the inside.


Barrel dislocation.


Action.


The guts of the upper & action.

Scary isn't it? A pretty shroud over a pencil barrel, and a chintzy action. This is the "quality" of the Umarex product. On top of all of this:

• No last shot hold open.
• Pistol grip is proprietary & not standard AR.
• Butt stock is proprietary & not standard AR.
• Trigger is proprietary & not standard AR.
• The forward assist is just for looks.
• The dust cover is always open, it never holds closed.

I couldn't sell or trade this thing off and keep a clear conscious. A friend of mine, who is unemployed, wanted it. I gave him full disclosure, and gave it to him.

A few weeks later I bought the one I should have bought in the first place, a S&W M&P 15-22.

Glad to see that information in pictures. I had read lots about those issues before making my mind up on the M&P.

thanks god i didnt buy that gsg ak47......it was a chintze pencil barrel with a shroud covering it only to held in place by the muzzle brake....what a p o s

I had a gsg 5, it was fun but inferior to the 15-22 IMO. The gsg is a clamshell design and a real pain to take down to clean. The barrel is pencil thin under the shroud. It had more FTF than I expected. Always felt loose, even with tight loctited screws.

A lot of people are happy with their gsg's and I did have fun with it. The 15-22 is just a better design and I recommend it.

That looks like a ****ing nightmare. Thanks for sharing
For some reason, people place the polymer receivers as a major turn off and go with something with more heft and go for something like that. Bad move, in my opinion.

You know I cant figure that one out, why the hell would you want a heavier weapon?

Maybe its just me, but I like having a lightweight weapon!

Some folks think heavier means more expensive, it doesn't.. it's an old thought.. With the metals of today, you can have both, and we do. You just have to pay more for the lighter parts.

Again a heavy rifle is only a problem if you are a soldier, since you will be hauling that sucker everywhere and everyplace 24/7. LEO have much shorter carry time, civilians even less.. Also recoil is less with a heavier weapon. But this can be address with compensators and heavy buffers.. Know what you want and build and carry what fits those needs and with the technology we have today, anything is possible ...............with the right amounts of bills. Keepem in the X ring.

Morning Brian

People have all kinds of reasons for wanting a heavier weapon.

In my case I want my cheap practice 22 AR/M-4's to be as close to the weight of my real AR/M-4's as possible.

No sense in practicing with a light weight 22 AR clone only to pick up the real thing & have the feel so different that the practice with the light weight 22 actually hurt the ability to accurately hold & shoot a real AR/M-4.

wow ok yall got me sold on the 15-22 now how ever @Brett248vista, what model is that? (It has the front sights and m-4 style front like i want.) Thank yall so much for all the info and quick response

What model 15-22 is this?

That's a standard 15-22 with custom replacement of the barrel nut and hand guards, with a screw-on FSP/gas block attached to the barrel. One of these days I'm going to do the same, as I really prefer this look over the pseudo-freefloat look that S&W ships, and it would match my 5.56 much better.
However, the 15-22's factory configuration is a perfectly functional setup, and I've got far too many other things to blow time and money on right now.
(It still looks badass Brett...)

I love the light weight of my 15-22, that means when I added all my gizmos, it wasn't overly heavy. Has a true last shot hold open, trouble free, what issues I've had I attributed to the winchester 333 and golden bullets I tried.

My son has the Sig 522, very nice, shoots great. Seems to be a little more ammo sensative, we have moved past the winchester 333, but occasionally he'll have an issue with federal 550, the 15-22 does not. The Sig has a last shot hold open, but the mag is what holds it open, so when you drop the mag, the bolt goes shut. The mags on the Sig are a bear to load, so we got a couple of Black dog load assists for them, which I feel are essential for the 522 magazines.

If I had bought the Sig first, I'd be just as happy with it, but since I have the 15-22, I wouldn't trade it for the Sig. I too liked the Colt, at the time, it was quite a bit higher at the shows I was going to, then I saw what issues were most common with it and was glad I went with the 15-22. Having said that, when I bought my 15-22, I searched it out and saw plenty of issues with it as well, non of which, I have experienced.

Whoever has that GSG5 pistol, that thing looks awesome!

I noticed your front iron site is on with a scope.
Does this help in using your scope to be more accurate?
Will this work with RDS?
I love your setup.

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I see you. Now it's to late.

Yeah, I hear that most often. In my opinion, if I wanted something close to my AR-15 to train with, I would still go with the M&P or I would get a .22lr conversion kit for my AR. The Smith may be plastic but it functions just like the other rifle. That Colt/Umarex appears to be style over function. That thin barrel irks me really bad haha

After spending two minutes handling the Colt, my decision was made - I haven't felt such a chintzy, poorly manufactured weapon in a while.

I understand those that want the same weight to train with, but wouldn't that come at some sort of cost? With the same weight, and less fire power, wouldn't there be less felt recoil (if any?).

Why not just get a 22 upper and use the same lower?

5.56 has pretty non-existent recoil too.

also has anyone heard anything about the chiappa mfour 22?

Chiappa Firearms

Anybody ever tried this one or know much about the company?
comes with 2 mags (28rnd )

I made the mistake of buying a Colt/Umarex M4-22 when they first came out. They look nice but that's it, the design is overly complicated and poorly executed. I wouldn't recommend one of these to my worst enemy. The Sig 522 is heads and shoulders better than the Colt/Umarex and a decent rifle. It feels good in hand and shoots well, plus it has a good trigger and I like the folding stock. I like the one I bought after I dumped the Colt. The Smith & Wesson M&P15-22 though is IMO the best of the bunch. I bought one of the first ones before they threaded the barrel. Great rifle, accurate and trouble free with the same manual of arms of a centerfire AR. The only thing I didn't like was the unthreaded barrel, so when Smith introduced the next version with the flash suppressor I bought one. Then I saw my first MOE model and this one I feel is even better so I upgraded to the MOE.
After countless rounds through all my different M&P15-22s I can say they are great rifles. So stay away from the Colt, unless you enjoy getting aggravated, the Sig is good if you don't want an AR type manual of arms. But if I could have only one it would be the S&W M&P15-22. Check out the MOE model which has really neat features.

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GSG-5 owner here. It's one of the older ones that was shipped in the first batch. Ran great for about 1400 rounds and then I was running into multiple FTF and FTE issues every magazine. This last trip out it suffered a cracked bolt carrier in the exact same spot as others have posted about.

Just got notification of my Dark Earth MOE moved up to a shipped status. Very excited to have reliable 22 coming my way!

Among all the tactical .22s I picked these two. Both are great rifles. Sig522 is a bit heavy and more accurate. 15-22 is lighter and has a lot more available accessories via AR platform. 15-22 gets more range time .





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It's a regular 15-22, I added a Tacticool22 barrel nut adapter and used a DPMS AR15 Barrel Nut, DPMS Delta Ring Kit, Armalite A2 sight post (with custom machine spacer compliments of Brett (BELT_FED) DPMS Carbine Length Hand Guards and Hand Guard End Cap.

What are the scopes/red dots you have on those, and how do you like them?

Also how do you like the angled foregrip, I've been thinking about trying one and would love a informed opinion.

Not sure about what Phil has on the Sig, but the other two are Primary Arms red dot's.

The Sig522 has a Primary Arms compact 4x. It has a very fine (thin) reticle designed similar to an ACOG TA01. The 15-22 has a Primary Arms MicroDot. Both have given great service for the past couple years. The 4x is heavy and I use it for more precise aiming, so it's well suited to the Sig. The MicroDot is light and good for what I use it for bouncing around soda cans and junk. I like the AFG. I have three of them. Two of them in the pics here, and one on my Bushmaster.

I consider myself an expert on this subject. I owned a GSG-5 (actually two of them) for a little over a year and now I have the 15-22. The GSG-5 was a cool looking gun and I was very excited to get it. We took it to the range and it started jamming. I studied up, got the right ammo, cleaned it, and tried again, and again, and again. Almost half of the rounds that I tried to put through the GSG ended up FTF and were severely bent. I finally took it back, Big 5 was great about it, they gave me another one, which I thought was great. It wasn't, it jammed just as often as the first. When I cleaned it, little pieces of metal fell out. I don't think they were important parts because the GSG didn't work any worse once they were gone, but it didn't work any better either. I finally took the second one back to Big 5 and asked them to throw it in the trash. They gave me store credit, I got the 15-22 and everything has been great since then. I've had two ftf's in about 1500 rounds, both easily cleared with a pull of the charging handle, back shooting in about 3 seconds. It is also much more sturdy than the GSG, here is why that matters--I tried to zero the GSG every time we went shooting, the mounting rail wasn't secure enough and it never kept a good zero, I was basically re-zeroing after every jam (i.e. every other shot). I've learned a lot about patience, frustration and anger management from my GSG, but almost nothing about shooting. The 15-22 zeroed in about 10 minutes and can split an onion at 75 yards on the first shot. I haven't had a jam, but the rail is not moving anywhere, so I doubt I'll need to re-zero when I do get one. In case the conclusion isn't obvious, buy a 15-22 for yourself or your son, and get a GSG for someone you hate or someone you are afraid might try to shoot you while you're sleeping. It'll jam and you'll have plenty of time to get up, get dressed, brush your teeth, find your 15-22, load a magazine and shoot them before they clear the jam and shoot again.

I could be wrong, but just looking at the Chippa Mfour it looks like it uses Commercial spec stocks. Not a train smash if it does, but something to look at.

The forward assist also looks like it is non functional, and the flash hiders are all set screwed on, the barrel is not threaded.

None of those are bad in and of themselves, but it doesn't inspire much confidence.

KBK

- http://gunpowdertherapy.com/wordpress/?p=903

I was just looking at the exploded diagram of these, and they look waaaay better than the umarex ones, also if i read this correctly the upper is usable on a std ar lower. kudos to them for offering the diagrams readily on their site. that alone would make more more comfortable purchasing from them.

No matter how many different dedicated AR15 inspired .22lr rifles there are on the market, I always assert that the M&P 15 / 15PC are the best of the bunch.

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-John