Primary Arms PAM3M

[rraisley]

Okay, so I just got my M3 sight today. Looks good. It co-witnesses with the MBUS sights on my MOE, and I like the multiple reticles. I have two questions, though, before I take it out the first time:

? How are the Windage and Elevation dials calibrated? Is each large line 5 MoA, and each small one 1 MoA, or is each large line 0.5 MoA, with each small being 0.1 MoA?

? What is the rubber piece with 3 holes used for? Looks like it's to fit somehow on theWindage, Elevation and Battery Cap mounts, but I'm not sure how. Doesn't seem like the holes would stretch enough to fit over the small buttons the cord is attached to, but I don't know.

I got the extended mount with it, just in case, but the NcStar QD mount works well, so will be using it. I was trying to figure out how to carry my 15-22 along with the BSA scope with Burris QD PEPR, and the M3 with the NcStar QD mount, and still have room for my 4 mags and grip/bipod in the 5 pockets on the outside of my UTG tactical case, but figured I'd just mount the M3 /under/ the rail while in the case, then use whichever I want after arrival at the range. That should work (and is no doubt obvious to everyone here except me, but I've shot pistols for over 50 years, and my rifle for under 1 month, so...).

[Majorlk]

That information should be in the owner's manual. It has been for every other scope/RDS I have used.

That said, the standard is .25 MOA per click at 100 yards - four clicks moves the POI one inch. It will take eight clicks at 50 yards and 16 clicks at 25 yards to move the POI one inch at those distances.

[rraisley]

The only manual for the M3 is a single sheet of paper, saying which way to turn to make corrections, but nothing about scale. But then, my BSA scope with mRAD reticle had absolutely NO information on that reticle or my scope in particular; when I asked on phone help, they sent me a rather laughable diagram that was supposed to make it all clear (attached).

The divisions on the scope circle has 5 short lines (and clicks) for each long one, so I doubt they're .25 MOA.

[Majorlk]

I guess that's the difference between manufacturers of real scopes and RDS and those that make AirSoft toys.

[rraisley]

Kinda nasty. I ask for opinions on what red dot to get, and everyone says Primary Arms is the only one to consider (a bit of an exaggeration, but searching indicates that many seem to LOVE it), or when suggestions are made for the BSA Mil-Mil being the best scope under $500, and then when I get them, I've gone "cheap." No winning, I guess.

[Gopher Slayer]

Ignore the haters and make up your own mind after shooting the hell out of it. PA doesn't make airsoft toys. I'll get the answer for you from Marshall (owner) because I'm a friendly forum member.

[rraisley]

Thanks, GS. I emailed PA about it, but being it's a weekend, haven't heard back.

I'm not the least concerned about my purchase. The PA M3 is quality in every way, is so bright I'll need to turn it down, has four reticles for me to play with, and is solid as get out. The BSA Mil-Mil scope is extremely bright, and the Mil reticle makes corrections a snap at any distance, without any calculations. So I'm happy with what I have. I'm just trying to use it all the best I can, just as I am my 15-22.

It seems a bit funny to be ridiculed for spending $370 on a scope and mount, and another $150 on a red dot and mount, for a $480 rifle. I mean, I love my 15-22, but it's not exactly an Anschutz, so I feel I'm matching up my optics pretty well to my weapon.

[Gopher Slayer]

I just sent him a IM on another forum. He checks his IM's often, so it shouldn't be long. I would also like to be reminded what the values are.

Remember to post in the pic thread. My 1-4x24 is on it's way. I'll get some pics up after I dial her in and blast a few gophers.

[Gopher Slayer]

Here's what Marshall said.


"Hi Eric

Thanks for the help with this. Each click is about 1/2 MOA. It should be close to zero out of the box. I always mention to remember the dot moves the opposite direction from POI.

The rubber piece is a retainer for the elevation and windage caps. It comes with wire retainers but the rubber is a more finished look. They are a pain to get over the cap on the knob but once on stay in place."

[rraisley]

Originally Posted by Gopher Slayer

Each click is about 1/2 MOA.

Makes sense. Except that means 5 clicks (5 short lines) is 2.5 MOA which is one long line on the calibration knobs, which is a bit unusual.

The rubber piece is a retainer for the elevation and windage caps. It comes with wire retainers but the rubber is a more finished look. They are a pain to get over the cap on the knob but once on stay in place."

Yeah, I can see that.

Thanks a lot!

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Originally Posted by rraisley

Makes sense. Except that means 5 clicks (5 short lines) is 2.5 MOA which is one long line on the calibration knobs, which is a bit unusual.

Keep in mind that these dime store optics are usually not consistent. 5 clicks could be closer to 2MOA or 3MOA.... one click closer to .25MOA or over .5MOA.... there's no telling. What these optics are good for is zeroing at a particular distance and leaving it. I use the dot for holdover when needed. I have two Primary Arms MicroDot and they work great on my 15-22 and Ruger 22/45.



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[Aceman58]

You can try SightMark Red Dot, they are affordable (on a 22LR) around $79 and are a solid performer. They co-witness will either full or 1/3 with my Magpul front and rear. My full size AR15 has a Aimpoint ML3 and this SightMark is a clone of that. Second, I have a rule about installing any optic that cost more than the rifle it sits upon, but that's just me. The M&P 15/22 is not going to defend me in battle, but I do want it to work.

I also can recommend the Vortex Strikefire Red Dot ($179), very solid performer as well. Good luck..

[rraisley]

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

Keep in mind that these dime store optics are usually not consistent.

You guys shop at different dime stores than I do. I don't consider a $100 scope a dime store optic, but to each his/her own.

[Evil Dog]

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

Keep in mind that these dime store optics are usually not consistent.

Not everyone can afford optics that cost more then the rifle.

[rraisley]

Originally Posted by Evil Dog

Not everyone can afford optics that cost more then the rifle.

True. And i have nothing but praise for the 3M. It's bright, holds a great zero (as does the QD mount it's on), love the different dot types (circle plus dot is my favorite), battery seems to last long (left in on accidentally a couple days, and it's still going), very clear. Also very clear when using MBUS sights through it, so need to even remove it for iron sights.

[Martimus]

Personally if the optic were being used on a combat weapon I would wholeheartedly agree to buy the best one that you can possibly afford. After all, even the smallest inconsistency could prove fatal when someone is shooting back at you.

For competition, using a more expensive optic can also have it's advantages but, at the same time, many shooters may not ever exerience an issue using the inexpensive optic. If you want the expensive optic, get it. Similar can be said of the inexpensive optic. Will it make a difference? You can always try it and find out... Worst case you can sell the optic and buy something else.

For plinking and practice, I personally don't see the need to invest in an optic that costs more than the weapon. If you can afford the cost of the optic, or can justify the additional cost, more power to you! For me, however, I'm quite happy using the Primary Arms optics as they accomplish what I want them to accomplish.

[Kayback]

For serious use a magnified optic should cost roughly the same as the weapon it is on. Any more and you have more scope than the gun is able to utilize, less and the gun will out perform the scope.

For a .22? Yeah hey, no need to break the bank. Things like the T-1 are designed to work after jumping out of a plane at 40 000' into deep water, insert over a beach into a desert and survive an IED. You're 15/22 isn't.

You need something that will do the basics. The cost can reflect that.

All being said though, the more expensive optics do tend to have a clearer picture.

[BillyJack2012]

PA makes a great product. I use one on my AR and it holds zero even with 5.56 recoil. Nice choice for the 15-22.

(Rubber Thingie)