I found this interesting page on the 22 LR round I thought I would share and see what you guys think of it.

Lethality_of_the_22_LR

Good read. Thanks for that.
I always felt that as long as you have good placement, a .22LR can get the job done as well as any other caliber.

I will say it is quite interesting. He only shot to 300 yards. There was another thread on this site that a guy was shooting I believe 400+ yards at a chuck roast, wrapped in jeans and taped. He was using a hotter load I believe. All the shots penetrated and went through the entire thing.

It goes unmentioned. These .22's aren't toys. They're still a weapon. They will still kill anything in front of them given the right conditions. I'm not surprised that these .22's can reach that far.

As stated earlier, very interesting though.

Talk to the members of the Israeli MOSSAD about the effectiveness of the .22. I think they have a "little" experience in using that cartridge during some clandestine operations......just a "little".....

The trouble with that is.....finding one to admit he is a member.....

TAKJR

While this is an entertaining story (not sure how applicable a gutted turkey is to a human abdomen), my .22s would still be the last firearms I reached for to defend myself and my family.

My sentiments, as well. The purpose of a defensive firearm is to STOP an attacker. Whether or not he dies in the process is up to God.

If he is not stopped and continues his attack, what does it matter if he bleeds to death 15 or 20 minutes later?

I'll tell you what a .22lr definitely won't kill.....this argument.

A .22 may expand, but a .45 will never shrink.

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Hold my beer and watch this!

Hahahaha! That was great!

I look at it this way, 1 22lr probably wont stop an intruder, but 12? I've got a good bet that that probably will. And if not, than the kukri I keep next to my bed will be more than enough to finish the job.

Really though I doubt I'll ever Have to discharge my weapon.

Not the world's greatest manstopper, BUT it's a fact that most people don't like being shot: even by a lowly 22LR. I'd feel better facing an attacker with a 25 rnd 15-22 than I would with a snubnose 38 or 357. And I'm a pretty damn good shot with a snubnose out to 25 yards. But with the adrenalyn pumping, I'd take 25 rnds out of a 22LR rifle because I think I'd be able to land most all of them where I wanted. That said, I carry a snubnose (and feel good about it) as I haven't figured out how to conceal a 15-22.

Seriously? Wow.
I'd never trust a .22LR with my life unless the other choice was a pointy stick. You would take the lesser ignition reliability, lower mass, less expansion, etc. of a rimfire 22LR (even a quality round) over something like this?

Apparently some of the doubters have never been around or talked to someone in ems. I have seen plenty of dead or close to it all from a little .22 round. I'm not saying it is the best or should be the first choice for HD, but trust me it will get the job done.

I have to agree with darksideemt. Other EMT's, First Responder's, DA's, and Law Enforcement have said, the most common caliber of a gun related death or injury is a .22lr

Good for all you folks who tout the .22 as an acceptable defensive round. Tell me where to send the flowers when it doesn't work.

I'll take my .40 S&W or 9mm.

My first weapon of HD is a 30 yo stevens 12 ga shotgun full choke single shot. it doesn't spread much and will destroy whatever it hits.

My second would be the 15-22 even as small of a round like the 22LR is deadly in the right spot or if you can hit them enough times with it and the semi auto 15-22 can spit enough rounds out to do just that in a short amount of time without the worry of hitting your neighbors.

My first is an M9 with 124gr +p.
My second is a G19 with 124gr +p
My third is a 1911 with .45 ACP 230gr
My fourth is an AR-15 with MK318 MOD-0...
...Then I guess I'd pick up the 15-22.

But in the end, if you feel comfortable trusting your life and the lives of your loved ones to a ~40gr rimfire .22LR, that's your call.
It's better than a pointy stick.

(Side note: these types of threads usually serve no useful purpose and end up with people getting grouchy at each other.)

I agree with your side note you will notice I did list my 12 ga as the primary. Perhaps my next weapon will be a semi-auto 12 GA shotgun lol.

True, the 22LR would not be the weapon I would grab FIRST for defence, but with that said, if I only had a 22LR to grab, and it's my M&P 15/22, I feel sorry for the person I raise this fine weapon up upon... as the saying goes, "He died from Lead poisoning at an accelerated rate".. 22LR lead, don't matter 9mm, 40cal or the trusted 45 or .357 magnum, it all be lead.... and we shoot to stop the threath..

I would not chose the .22LR as my 1st choice but I may not be able to choose; if that is what I can get to 1st then I will be ready to use it.

My 1st choice is a .45 with RBCD self defense rounds
2nd is a .40 with RBCD
3rd 12 ga 3 1/2" Buck Shot

I hope it never comes to the point of having to use one of the above but if it should. "Please smile and wait for the flash."

Bill

too bad that turkey won't get eaten, though.

mmmmmmm Turkey... mmmmmmmmmmmm

:-)

Having personally tested subsonic 22 ammo for penetration in treated 2x4's I can assure you that the human skull is no match for them! I have dispatched 400 lbs. slaughter hogs with it, and seen steers dispatched it. I also took a man to MCV Hospital in Richmond who had been shot in the head with a 25acp. I talked to him all the way and he was talkin to LEO when I left. The small gun works most of the time but remember Mr. Murphy!

Treated pine is much softer than a human skull. Apples, oranges

You killed a moving hog from 20 yards away who was wearing a thick winter coat and firing back at you? Man, that's a mean hog.

By all means, use whatever you want to defend your life.
However, in a home defense situation, against an armed intruder, in the dark, I'd feel far better about my chances aiming center mass with a center-fire 9mm, .45, or 5.56.

Now, obviously, if for some strange reason all I had was a .22LR, yes, I'd use it and be glad for it. But it would never be my first choice.

(It seems like we're all just repeating ourselves endlessly...)

Please be nice its just a discussion the original post was a FYI isn't that interesting type of link, and anything can kill even a BB gun or Pellet gun if you hit something in the right place .

A snubby J frame with 8 LR's or 7 Magnums would NOT be underarmed vs 5 .38's. If you think a .22 is less than lethal-go ask Bobby Kennedy.

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Forum consigliere

You people keep missing the point; in a defensive situation you are shooting to STOP the attacker as quickly as possible. The operative word is STOP. That takes a large caliber wound to the heart, brain or central nervous system. A .22 LR might do it, but it cannot be depended upon to do it. The ONLY sure way to stop someone with a .22 LR is one or more shots directly into the brain through an eye socket or an ear canal. Anyone who depends upon any .22 LR as a primary defensive tool is a fool.

For the guys who say they'll just empty a 25-round magazine into the perp, good luck if it goes to court. I can just hear a prosecutor asking:

"Mr. Shooter, why was it necessary to shoot Mr. Perp 25 times and empty the entire excessive capacity magazine of your military-style assault rifle into his body? Wouldn't just one or two shots have sufficed?"

As has been said before, but bears repeating, there are a lot of nonsense statements being made by people will little firearms experience and even less defensive firearms training. Such folks, if ever involved in an actual shooting, will likely either wind up shot by the intruder or find themselves in court with one or more felony charges.

Make my Day Law!!!!
But I agree, if a 22 if what you reach for in self defense, your screwed. Some guy here in colorado was shot 8 times by his mother with a 22, he still managed to throw her down the stairs, stomp her to death, and calmly call 911.

So how many people have you shot/killed and what calibre did you use???

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Forum consigliere

Too many to count and nothing smaller than .50 BMG.

You?

Same as you-none
Which makes my position as well grounded as yours.

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Forum consigliere

I didn't say none, but whether I have or not is none of your business and certainly not fodder for this forum.

If you feel safe defending yourself from an armed attacker with a .22 LR, have at it. It's your life, not mine.

OK Kids.......... Play Nice.....

No-one will win this debate.... so lets get back to playing with our TOYS and put smiles on our faces

I find myself in a quandary on this subject. In these types of threads, I always state that the .22lr would not be my choice for self defense, I would use the shotgun or .40 cal pistol. However, in the end of the world, need to bug out type threads, I always state that my son and I are grabbing our .22lr. Seem to contradict myself when I think about it. Hmmmm.....

I can understand where you are coming from. The fact is they are mostly two different situations.

In a bug out type situation one could argue it comes down to how much you can carry on your back. With that in mind, leaving out the other items one would need for survival and just focusing on weapons, it stands to reason that one would need a gun which is light weight, can take various types of game (some only with well placed shots mind you), is chambered in a common cartridge, is reliable and allows for the user to carry a decent amount of ammo without it being a burden.

As for home defense....well, the key words here are "home" and "defense".

It's one thing to have the luxury and time to take a well aimed, well placed shot with a .22lr to a deer's head.
It's another all together when you have an armed criminal coming after you and yours.

All in all, at this moment, I think for my bug out gun I'd grab my 5.56 and bring my CMMG .22 conversion. One Gun, two COMMON cartridges, both with a lot of versatility. Or my 12gauge. You can do a lot with a 12 Gauge also....