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Old 03-21-2013, 07:07 AM
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Default Optics question

Sorry if this is a stupid question but, If I put and optic sight on my 15-22, do you loose the use of the built in iron sight? I guess it doesn't matter but just curious. Wasn't sure if the new optics would block the sights path. Thanks.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:24 AM
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All depends on the optic. Red dot or magnified?
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:30 AM
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What Billy said. There are ways and means of using the standard sights with both red dots and magnified optics, it all depends on your preference and the overall use of the rifle.

Tell us which sight you looking at and we can give a better answer.

For a non magnified red dot there are ways of keeping the irons useable while having the dot as well. Either what is called an "absolute co witness" where the red dot and the irons are all in the same plane, but the irons obscure some of your red dot sight, or a more popular "lower 1/3 co witness" which means your irons appear in the lower 1/3rd of the field of view of the optic. You can still use them if you need to, but they are not blocking your view.

There are certain parts needed to get either system to work, but they can be done.

Things get complicated by magnified optics, but there are also ways around that.

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Old 03-21-2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by lsu2868 View Post
Sorry if this is a stupid question but, If I put and optic sight on my 15-22, do you loose the use of the built in iron sight?
Not as long as you keep the mounting screws tight. You might want to use some Loctite.

Also, this.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:02 AM
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To be honest I am just now starting to look at the optics and haven't decided which one to go with. I was just gathering info to maybe help make a decision. This is my first experience with optics and all. I just wasn't sure if there is really still a need to be able to view the iron sights if you had optics mounted or if it was good to have both available pending on what situation or scenerio you might be in.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:15 AM
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My two cents, for whatever it's worth, is that on a 15-22 a decent red dot is ideal. Especially one with a small dot. Why? Assuming you can actually see the target at something up to 100 yards away, you'll probably be able to shoot very nice groups up to that distance with a red dot. The only advantage I've found with a magnified scope is that you can see your "hits" on the target when you're shooting, and therefore get the instant feedback to make corrections as needed. I have a Primary Arms red dot on my 15-22 and love it. Let's be realistic...15-22's are plenty accurate, but they're not tack drivers at most distances over 100 yards anyway. Edited to add: With a red dot and a proper mount, you can still keep your iron sights on the gun and either reserve them for "emergencies" or use them together - your choice.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:56 PM
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My two cents, for whatever it's worth, is that on a 15-22 a decent red dot is ideal. Especially one with a small dot. Why? Assuming you can actually see the target at something up to 100 yards away, you'll probably be able to shoot very nice groups up to that distance with a red dot. The only advantage I've found with a magnified scope is that you can see your "hits" on the target when you're shooting, and therefore get the instant feedback to make corrections as needed. I have a Primary Arms red dot on my 15-22 and love it. Let's be realistic...15-22's are plenty accurate, but they're not tack drivers at most distances over 100 yards anyway. Edited to add: With a red dot and a proper mount, you can still keep your iron sights on the gun and either reserve them for "emergencies" or use them together - your choice.
The red dot is what I was leaning towards so your answer basically confirms what I wanted. There are so many choices and it's not like I am going on a "mission" or anything and need something extravigant. Just for the range. Thanks everyone for you help and any more input is welcome.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:11 PM
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Just arrived today. Have it on a UTG medium riser.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:41 PM
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You can put a carry handle rear sight on it, and a rail on top of the carry handle for whatever you want to put on there.

That way, you can use iron sights and a scope or reflex sight.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gm272gs View Post
You can put a carry handle rear sight on it, and a rail on top of the carry handle for whatever you want to put on there.

That way, you can use iron sights and a scope or reflex sight.
I had considered that as well.
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:22 PM
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You can get a scope and leave your iron sights on. You won't see the iron front sight in the scope. I's too close and you won't even see the shadow through the scope.
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:16 PM
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You can get a scope and leave your iron sights on. You won't see the iron front sight in the scope. I's too close and you won't even see the shadow through the scope.
Would you use a riser on that setup...
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsu2868 View Post
Sorry if this is a stupid question but, If I put and optic sight on my 15-22, do you loose the use of the built in iron sight? I guess it doesn't matter but just curious. Wasn't sure if the new optics would block the sights path. Thanks.
I'm in the same boat as you my friend. I never really owned/purchased any optics, but recently caught the bug. I'm like you, no 007 missions, but I think it would be cool to have sites & scope.

Not to hi-jack your thread, but does anyone know if you have to use a scope riser to use the stock sites? Also, at the end of the day, I'm sure it is preference, but is it any easier or convenient to have all site working together, or seperatley? I.e. front & rear sites line up with scope, or front & rear line up seperate from scope, & scope works on it's own?
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Squirrel Master View Post
I'm in the same boat as you my friend. I never really owned/purchased any optics, but recently caught the bug. I'm like you, no 007 missions, but I think it would be cool to have sites & scope.

Not to hi-jack your thread, but does anyone know if you have to use a scope riser to use the stock sites? Also, at the end of the day, I'm sure it is preference, but is it any easier or convenient to have all site working together, or seperatley? I.e. front & rear sites line up with scope, or front & rear line up seperate from scope, & scope works on it's own?
As others said, it depends on your "scope" or "optic". A non-maginifying red dot sight with riser should work fine with your stock iron sights, but it will make the stock sights useless. An EOTech holographic sight can be used with the MOE edition pull-up sights (or Mbus Gen 2) with sights up or down. When the sights are up, they perfectly co-witness with the dot sighted zero at 50 yards. When you use a 3X flip-to-side maginifier with a EOTech or just a stand alone magnifying dot sight, you will see a shadow of your sight as partial obstruction on the bottom 1/5-1/3 through the magnifying scope, but it will be mostly out of focus. I rarely pull the sights down with the EOtech alone, but pull them down for 3X maginifier. Using a stock sight, it obstuck even more and fairly difficult to use with 3X maginifier. You can use a riser for magnifying dot scopes, but that will make your iron sight (stock or pull up) completely useless.

For a rifle scope with maginification, stock iron sights rarely work without a tall riser for the scope. You can add a carrying handle and add the dot sight or scope on the top of handle, but it will make your AR quite heavy. Frankly, it depends on what you want to shoot and the purpose of your AR15-22 (plinker/trainer or survival/home-defense).
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Shooterjgs View Post
Would you use a riser on that setup...

Depends on the shooter. Myself I use a riser for the better relief. Also depends on your scope and the size of the bell on that end towards the front sight. To me it's more comfortable to shoot with a 1/2 riser and low ringed scope mount
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Master View Post
I'm in the same boat as you my friend. I never really owned/purchased any optics, but recently caught the bug. I'm like you, no 007 missions, but I think it would be cool to have sites & scope.

Not to hi-jack your thread, but does anyone know if you have to use a scope riser to use the stock sites? Also, at the end of the day, I'm sure it is preference, but is it any easier or convenient to have all site working together, or seperatley? I.e. front & rear sites line up with scope, or front & rear line up seperate from scope, & scope works on it's own?
If I'm reading you right. You can use a scope alone and "loose" your iron sights. Can't use both at the same time unless you add a riser with a "see through" center riser and look under the scope. That can/will put the scope too high. Remember,you want to keep any sight as close to the barrel as possable for better sighting.

You can use an HG or red dot along with your iron sights. You can use seprate or co witnessed together. Using the front sight and Dot for full co witness or 1/3rd co witness leaving the rear sight down...
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:08 PM
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As others said, it depends on your "scope" or "optic". A non-maginifying red dot sight with riser should work fine with your stock iron sights, but it will make the stock sights useless. An EOTech holographic sight can be used with the MOE edition pull-up sights (or Mbus Gen 2) with sights up or down. When the sights are up, they perfectly co-witness with the dot sighted zero at 50 yards. When you use a 3X flip-to-side maginifier with a EOTech or just a stand alone magnifying dot sight, you will see a shadow of your sight as partial obstruction on the bottom 1/5-1/3 through the magnifying scope, but it will be mostly out of focus. I rarely pull the sights down with the EOtech alone, but pull them down for 3X maginifier. Using a stock sight, it obstuck even more and fairly difficult to use with 3X maginifier. You can use a riser for magnifying dot scopes, but that will make your iron sight (stock or pull up) completely useless.

For a rifle scope with maginification, stock iron sights rarely work without a tall riser for the scope. You can add a carrying handle and add the dot sight or scope on the top of handle, but it will make your AR quite heavy. Frankly, it depends on what you want to shoot and the purpose of your AR15-22 (plinker/trainer or survival/home-defense).
Thanks Go Vtec! This answer is what I was looking for. I think I want a new 15-22 for the range, but I wouldn't mind barely missing a few squirrels either I do love the Magpul pop up sights, and may get the basic model, and buy them seperate. I like the idea of the EOTech holographic option, so I am going to do some more research on them. Thanks again and kind regards. As always, appreciate the knowledge!
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:15 AM
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I believe what I am speaking of in my prior post is a true co-witness, if that means your front & rear sights line up with the red dot on the optic. I like the Magpul pop up sights, and considering an EOtech red dot. Anyone know if a riser would be needed in my case to make this set-up a co-witness? If I do need a riser, what height should I shoot for?
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:55 AM
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I don't believe you need a riser for an Eotech. As I understand it it was designed to work with the AR-15's sight plane which is ~2.5" over the bore. The Eotechs, as I understand it, as this high already without riser.

Shorter dots like the Aimpoint Micro, TRS-25, Primary Arms Micro, Aimpoint Comp series and the like are all less than that and to get them in the right height to use them as the AR-15 was designed require a riser.

Just remember there is nothing magical about a "co-witness" all it means is you can see the sights through the other sight. It does not help with your shooting. If it is an absolute co witness it may speed up the transition from a broken red dot sight to your iron sights, but that's only marginal. The absolute co witness also clutters your field of view.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:19 AM
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I believe what I am speaking of in my prior post is a true co-witness, if that means your front & rear sights line up with the red dot on the optic. I like the Magpul pop up sights, and considering an EOtech red dot. Anyone know if a riser would be needed in my case to make this set-up a co-witness? If I do need a riser, what height should I shoot for?
You should be fine just sitting the EOtech on the rail. They are made to keep low. Your putting a $500.- $1000. scope on a $399. 22 ?
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:24 PM
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II like the Magpul pop up sights, and considering an EOtech red dot. Anyone know if a riser would be needed in my case to make this set-up a co-witness? If I do need a riser, what height should I shoot for?
You don't need a riser with EOTech. It co-witness with MBUS 2 BUIS perfectly.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:08 PM
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Sorry, I just can't bring myself to put an optic on my gun that costs as much if not more than the gun itself. Just plinking around here...not going to war. I have found several on Amazon and at Bass Pro I am going to look at more. In the $50 to $100 range or so.
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Old 03-22-2013, 05:01 PM
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Sorry, I just can't bring myself to put an optic on my gun that costs as much if not more than the gun itself. Just plinking around here...not going to war. I have found several on Amazon and at Bass Pro I am going to look at more. In the $50 to $100 range or so.
I really do like the Bushnell TRS-25 red dot. $90 with a 20% mail in rebate is hard to beat!
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Old 03-22-2013, 05:19 PM
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You should be fine just sitting the EOtech on the rail. They are made to keep low. Your putting a $500.- $1000. scope on a $399. 22 ?
Sorry MM. I am new to the whole rifle & optics seen. I can admit I have very little knowledge when it comes to firearms, outside of safety. However, I am here to learn.

Valuable lesson #1 - do more research (especially regarding price) before you post. LOL

I had a guy suggest that set-up, so I asked about it. The more I think about it, he was probably being sarcastic
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Old 03-22-2013, 05:43 PM
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There is nothing WRONG with that setup. If you have the $ then go for it.

Personally I dislike Eotechs on principal as all the ones I've used have died, while I've yet to kill an Aimpoint.

Personally I think Eotech and Aimpoint are both overkill for a range toy like the 15-22 and think many budget sights will do. The Primary Arms and TRS-25 are good examples of this. I am currently using an Aimpoint H-1 because I had a spare one lying around.

As a general rule the optic on your rifle should cost roughly the same as the rifle so their performance matches. In both rifles and sights you get what you pay for.

That saying is a little dated these days though.

KBK
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Old 03-22-2013, 05:49 PM
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Default Optics question

My son and I squirrel hunt with our 1522's. We have Nikon 3x9x40 rimfire scopes mounted with the P series or M series base. We did have ours on Risers but switched to the rings. These scopes have the BDC circles in the reticles that allow you to shoot out to 150 yards. It is really nice option to be able to turn your scope up in the woods while hunting. We also have a 45 degree mount on our rifles with a reflex red dot for the close in squirrel charges. It is nice to be able to tip the rifle and sight with the red dot. The red dots are sighted in at 25 yards. I would suggest maybe getting 2 risers and put your red dot on one and mount a cheap scope on the other. This way you could interchange optics as needed. This setup would allow you to see what optic setup you like or what would work for you. Just a thought.

Last edited by don5; 03-22-2013 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:59 PM
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Sorry MM. I am new to the whole rifle & optics seen. I can admit I have very little knowledge when it comes to firearms, outside of safety. However, I am here to learn.

Valuable lesson #1 - do more research (especially regarding price) before you post. LOL

I had a guy suggest that set-up, so I asked about it. The more I think about it, he was probably being sarcastic
That's what it's all about and the key. "Willing to learn" no matter what age or skill level. When any one person thinks they know it all,they become dangerous and it's time to switch hobbies. We're all here to help each other.

No worries. "We've" all seen 15-22's dressed to the hilt. They do look good too. Just thought a $1000. scope on a 15-22 ??? If you can afford it,run it. The scope will "out shoot" the rifle if you catch that drift.

My poor little 15-22 gets hand me downs from it's older brothers and that works out well enough. But it also gets used for "playing" with any new parts now and then too.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:03 PM
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My son and I squirrel hunt with our 1522's. We have Nikon 3x9x40 rimfire scopes mounted with the P series or M series base. We did have ours on Risers but switched to the rings. These scopes have the BDC circles in the reticles that allow you to shoot out to 150 yards. It is really nice option to be able to turn your scope up in the woods while hunting. We also have a 45 degree mount on our rifles with a reflex red dot for the close in squirrel charges. It is nice to be able to tip the rifle and sight with the red dot. The red dots are sighted in at 25 yards. I would suggest maybe getting 2 risers and put your red dot on one and mount a cheap scope on the other. This way you could interchange optics as needed. This setup would allow you to see what optic setup you like or what would work for you. Just a thought.
I do that with scoped larger brothers,only I use 45 irons. I have a "cheap" HG on one. They work nice for a real quick back-up.
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