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Old 05-13-2013, 01:59 AM
Ammobob Ammobob is offline
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I realize I am new around here, so please forgive me if this topic is not allowed, or if it in an improper place, I am still trying to learn the ropes so to speak. As I sit back and look at the current ammo situation, especially regarding .22 LR cartridges, I find myself thinking some things I never thought I would. And again, I mean this in no way to be disrespectful to anyone, just some general thoughts, right or wrong. It seems to me that most places I check or keep up with are getting a fair amount of ammo in on a pretty regular basis. Now granted nowhere near optimum levels, but I am seeing 10's of thousands if not more of rounds in circulation (new stock) each week, from several retailers.

I used to think that the shortage was coming from the people who have nothing better to do but stand in line at your major chains, or sit on their computer all day with alerts set up, and they are buying everything that comes out, as fast as it comes out, no matter what the price; only to resell at crazy prices. (and your just plain panic ammo confiscation buyers and other assorted conspiracy theorists) And we have ALL seen previously reputable companies cash in on the frenzy by charging ludicrous amounts for their ammo. However, quite a few places have kept their prices normal, but not many.

I see this as gun guys taking advantage of other gun guys, but that's for another thread. And for the record I know how the free market, economics, supply & demand and all that jaz works, and would have it no other way, but TO ME there comes a point when it becomes unethical. Anyway moving on.

While this certainly is happening quite often, another trend I see is people with massive stocks (gun guys) buying up everything in sight as well just to sit on, which doesn't help at all. Now a man should be able to buy whatever he wants, and however much of it he wants, but TO ME, 10k rounds of .22lr and still snapping up everything in sight seems a little excessive.

Especially when there are people (hundreds of thousands) brand new to shooting over the past 6 months or so, who have their first guns, but can't get any ammo. And then you have people caught with their pants down for whatever reason, (and it's not always lack of planning) that can't get ammo.

I'll try to wind this to a point. Doesn't it seem like gun owners are hurting gun owners by some of this behavior? And doesn't it seem like if you already have 5k-10k rounds of 22lr, (knowing there is no real confiscation or whatever going on) that those of us so well stocked should leave a little meat on the bone for others less fortunate?

I don't know, maybe I shouldn't post at 2am. I am just trying to make sense of this situation, and it seems like a lot of gun people, and gun stores, are using this "crisis" to hurt people financially more than is necessary. Maybe I just have a problem with what I see as out and out greed or unethical pricing.

As I said, I am not trying to start a war, or get people all upset, just trying to wrap my head around all of these things we find going on. I will never accept that it is not unethical to sell a 500 count box of .22 thunderbolt, that you paid $20 for, and turn around and resell it to a desperate person for $500. I am all for making a decent profit, but some of this I see really turns my stomach.

I'm sure plenty will say I am wrong, and that's okay. I just believe that ethics and integrity are worth a considerable amount more to me than hurting someone to make wads of cash, and it is my opinion that some pricing I have seen out there crosses the line. Makes me feel like some of these people would do the same with water or food. Doesn't that bother anyone anymore?

Anyway, I am done. I hope this doesn't get deleted without a chance for fair discussion, and I certainly hope I was respectful and didn't come off as nasty or hurtful to anyone.

Happy Shooting. -Bob
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:28 AM
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Hi Bob. Welcome.

I'm going to be direct. I love to shoot rimfire. I have a lot of .22 ammo. I have been collecting .22 LR for 10 years because I've been caught in the many gun buying frenzies. I have not bought any since Sandyhook. I have sold some recently because lead is gold right now.

Ammo is not food, at least not yet. You have no right to have it at cheap prices. The only right you have to it is slowly being chipped away every day. The "fair market" is just that. I think it's time to read The Little Red Hen again. The Little Red Hen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm sorry this has happened to you. The bullets will come back soon. I'm sure you will become like some of us an put a few extra away. Remember, the next ammo shortage is only another school shooting or election away. Good luck to you Sir.

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Old 05-13-2013, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammobob View Post
Now a man should be able to buy whatever he wants, and however much of it he wants, but TO ME, 10k rounds of .22lr and still snapping up everything in sight seems a little excessive.
Interesting comment... one that looks like two completely different people wrote. In one sentence you state one should be able to buy however much ammo he wants and in the same sentence state anything above some arbitrary number you have set is excessive.

You can't have it both ways. Either you are for a free market... or you aren't. Be like me telling my wife 10 pair of shoes is enough. To some 10 pair is enough but I sure don't want the government or anyone else sticking their nose into her business telling her what they think is enough. Same with any other, non essential commodity... such as guns and ammo.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:39 AM
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I don't see the problem here.A guy can buy and sell what he wants at whatever price the market will bear.Or he can hoard it if he likes,but part of the price he will pay is that some will judge him an ******* for doing it.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:47 AM
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I understand where you are coming from Ammobob. I'm sure like just about everyone else I really can't wait until the ammo situation stabilizes. The times I have gone early in the morning to find 9mm ammo I always see the same people already there and my first thought is- don't these guys have a job??? Sometimes they show up around midnight and wait there all night. Last week there was a guy like that who said all he wanted was .22 lr and had some 9mm in his car and if anyone could get .22 he would trade for 9mm and I thought about it. Once the store opened , he snatched up a big bulk box of 9mm and when I made it to the counter they were out of nines but had several boxes of 525 rds of .22. I decided not to play that game and not get any ammo I didn't need and let someone behind me get it.

But this is how bad the ammo situation is. I'm all for a free market, but when these hoarders and scalpers try to profit from a new gun owner ....well, I'll leave it alone.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:55 AM
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I liken the situation to what the defense contractors are doing to us in Southwest Asia with the exorbitant cost for goods and services. Some people call those contractors criminals while they see nothing wrong with buying up ammo and reselling at ridiculous prices. They're both taking advantage of a situation for EXTREME monetary gain. But hey, I guess that's the way the free market works...
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:59 AM
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Free market, free country (still...kinda), freedom to think and say what you want. I do find the relationship between your forum name and the topic of your post somewhat ironic. Carry on.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:04 AM
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As Gordon Gecko said, greed is good!
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:35 AM
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From my perspective, it seems that by having websites with thousands of people telling thousands more "where the ammo is" is compounding the problem. I would think that the marketplace, left to it's own up & down cyles and people out looking on their own for ammo they may need, would be a better solution. I realize, that in some parts of the country (well almost all parts of the country now) that ammo shortages are real and online buying is the norm for many. But each person, left to their own search online or locally, would certainly curtail the ammo supplies being sold out in minutes in most cases and in turn give more people that chance to get some.

This is just an observation, good or bad. So don't hate me for my opinion.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:07 AM
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I just checked an auction site for .22lr. Several listings starting at $125 for a brick. Some just list "500 rnds .22lr ammo" without brand, bullet weight, or any other information. And bids were $65 or more. There are some starting as low as $35 for a brick [or equivalent], so it's the buyers that are boosting the price. If the bidders dried up, what would the non-shooters do with all their ammo? And I would be surprised if some of the early morning crowd at Walmart ever go shooting. Certainly not in all the calibers they buy.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:35 PM
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History repeats itself because more people than not never learn the lessons of life.

The situation that was the catalyst to all of this is a lesson in civics. The political results so far is a lesson in the application of constitutional process. And the buying of guns and ammo at unprecedented levels as a result of the aforementioned is a lesson in human nature.

Learn these lessons for God's sake and apply them to life... Makes things a little more predictable and a lot less frustrating.

Enjoyed my trip to the range yesterday shooting my M&P 15-22. Third trip in a week. Got plenty to shoot more because I had prepared a little and adjusted a lot.

This will pass. When it does, remember and apply the necessary measures to forestall the impact the next time has on you. The next time might be something much more serious than not having 22 lr to play with... and the gougers and the lemmings freaking out will be there again. Avoid both. Neither will be to your benefit. One is the buzzard and the other Is the carrion. Don't just hold your nose. Stay away from the stench in the first place.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:39 PM
RPeacock1128 RPeacock1128 is offline
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I'm sure it's just shop talk but several of the larger retailers in my area said that their distributors have had more ammo available in May -- more so than any month since Christmas. We will see but at this point I buy what is available to me at a good price. I stick with Midway or a few well respected smaller online retailers. The Available Ammo Thread has been good to me - allowing me to purchase 5,000 or so rounds in the past 3 months. If I'm lucky I only shoot 250 rounds per month so I'm good. I will continue to pick up a brick any time I can access the Midway site fast enough to beat everyone else to the ammo. I refuse to pay GunBroker prices for .22 - I saw a post over the weekend where one guy bought a brick of Remington Subsonic for $160 ------ he is crazy. Midway (even Natchez with their ridiculous shipping) had the same for $34.99 last week.

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Old 05-13-2013, 01:41 PM
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Enough ammo?

No such thing.

This too will pass.

When it does, I hope the lesson is learned and people will prepare for the next time it will happen as there will indeed be a next time.

BE PREPARED!
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:54 PM
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Sorry, I joined the ranks of the hoarders last week. I have been an accumulator since Bill Clinton won in 1992. I was in the local big box store and there was this single box of ammo setting there all lonely so I bought it. It was a 1,000 round box of 7.62X51mm M80 NATO. I didn't need it, but it looked so lonely there by itself.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:54 PM
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I find it astounding the sheer enormity of rounds being sold and hoarded in these past months and say a little prayer for all those UPS,FEDEX and USPS delivery men and women out there......Let's all remember their effort and aching backs this Christmas...Shall we?
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:56 PM
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Gun owners are in a very vulnerable position now. Rather than dividing our ranks in the face of an organized enemy I say be patient and things will improve.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammobob View Post
And doesn't it seem like if you already have 5k-10k rounds of 22lr, (knowing there is no real confiscation or whatever going on) that those of us so well stocked should leave a little meat on the bone for others less fortunate?
Bob, I understand your frustration. I'm new to rifle shooting. Bought a 15-22 in January, and didn't know there was an ammo shortage until afterwards. I am one of those who has over 5k-10k rounds.

This morning I went to Wal-Mart to pick some stuff for the wife. Went by the ammo case and they got a huge shipment in. 9mm, 7.62x39, .223, and a lot of 22lr. They had cases of 333 Winchester; boxes of CCI Mini Mag (which I have never actually seen in the wild until today). They had bricks of CCI Quiet. You get the point.

I grabbed 3 boxes of 333 Winchester even though I have ammo. I'll be honest, I've sold some ammo (@ .07 -.08 a round). I've given ammo away to church members. I sell it for two reason. One, so I can pay for what I shoot. Two, it helps me give some away.

If I leave some "meat on the bone" I have no way of knowing who is less fortunate and who is going to sell it online for $100 a brick. So, I buy it so I'll know it goes to a good home. Folks may not like it, but I don't like driving all over the place looking for ammo either. Ammo is not a need (yet). And judging by Wal-mart and my LGS, the situation is getting better. Be patient.

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Old 05-13-2013, 03:31 PM
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I saw a funny cartoon that had Obama smiling and read "I made you think it was about the guns, but all along it was about the ammo". It's all going somewhere, but only "certain" people know where.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:03 PM
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Well I thought I'd put my 02 cents in since I only on a couple 22 rifles. When I go buy ammo I am looking for 22 but I barely find some, but when I do I buy and most always end up with 9mm since my lgs is 1 box per customer luckily the 9's aren't hard to come by.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:31 PM
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Well I bought an M&P 15-22 as my first gun purchase on Thursday (just turned 19, parents never were much into shooting/hunting). I figured it would allow me to learn how to handle an AR, without the powerful and expensive .223 cartridge, while allowing me to buy cheap ammunition so I can target shoot without breaking the bank. Honestly, when I went to buy the gun, I was oblivious to the whole .22LR shortage. I knew about the .223's, but never EVER thought the little .22's would be rare. I asked the cashier (a friend of mine) to grab me some ammo to get me started, and he sold me 200 rounds. I burnt through those pretty quickly... Then, I figured I'd go pick up some more ammo at WalMart and save some cash. Nowhere to be found. Looked everywhere locally and online.... NO AMMO. The only place with ammo wanted $17 for 50 rounds of cheap Federal ammo. So yeah, it sucks to be a new gun owner in this market. I finally bought my own gun, and now I can't even shoot it. Rant off.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:34 PM
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I'll bet that when the ammo shortage is over, the prices will go down. But... they will not be as low as before. No matter what price you pay then, you will be glad you paid that price. In a few years you will be wishing you bought more at that price.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:39 PM
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[QUOTE=SickStroke6.0;137220934] Well I bought an M&P 15-22 as my first gun purchase on Thursday (just turned 19, parents never were much into shooting/hunting). I figured it would allow me to learn how to handle an AR, without the powerful and expensive .223 cartridge, while allowing me to buy cheap ammunition so I can target shoot without breaking the bank. Honestly, when I went to buy the gun, I was oblivious to the whole .22LR shortage. I knew about the .223's, but never EVER thought the little .22's would be rare. I asked the cashier (a friend of mine) to grab me some ammo to get me started, and he sold me 200 rounds. I burnt through those pretty quickly... Then, I figured I'd go pick up some more ammo at WalMart and save some cash. Nowhere to be found. Looked everywhere locally and online.... NO AMMO. The only place with ammo wanted $17 for 50 rounds of cheap Federal ammo. So yeah, it sucks to be a new gun owner in this market. I finally bought my own gun, and now I can't even shoot it. Rant off. [/QUOTES]

Shoot me a PM and I'll send you some.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:40 PM
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Here in NJ we don't benefit from any big box ammo sellers.[Walmart do not sell ammo or firearms in NJ] so we're regulated to few LGS's who carry ammo,Dick's and the internet....none of which have anything but a few rounds of .32 ammo so we look longingly at even .50 cents/.22,.75 cants/9 mm and 1 dollar/.38 rounds.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:30 PM
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So this is an amusing thread and from a different perspective. I notice that almost all posters here are new to the forum and it seems like shooting. Add young on top of it and we get the expected results. There is a different view. We've had ammo shortages and component shortages for years. They come and go, but about the only real common element is they reoccur.

For some background, back in the early 70s we had gasoline rationing caused by the "Arab oil embargo". The then liberal congress felt the fair way to solve it was to just allow everyone to buy a small amount and keep the price "reasonable." What happened was everyone found a way to cheat or they just didn't have enough. Some folks, like retirees or the unemployed actually had more than they needed. Others like those who drove long distances didn't have enough.

The current system seems better for ammo. If you want ammo, you can get it. Might not be at a price you want, but its out there. I have a friend who had 300 gallons of Shell's finest in his barn. He had connections and he used them.

I'm even amused at the guy who thinks 10,000 rounds is a bit much. Once you've been through this, you won't think that at all and you'll have that much as a "safety stock". I do, but I'm considering selling it because there are guys who want to shoot so badly they'll pay $100 a brick. But if they're building a supply at that kind of pricing, they'll be taking a huge loss. Sooner or later we can pretty accurately predict things will sort of return to normal. Meaning the Walmarts will all have their 550 packs for anyone who wants them. Sure, they'll cost more than the $13.42 I was paying 5 years ago. But keep in mind all prices are going up. You can't run trillion dollar deficits without igniting some inflation. I don't look at government numbers, I look at the price of a burger and fries. It keeps going up.

So what happens to the guy with 100,000 rounds who paid $100 a brick? He'll have to shoot it because he can't sell it for anything like his cost.

Another interesting parallel comes up with components. Todays price for a "brick" of primers, 1,000 of them, is about $37-40. Depends on the brand and seller. In my ancient stock I've still got some that were around $7. I was incensed when they doubled to $14. When supplies stabilized and I saw some at $9 I bought a bunch. Then I stopped buying because I had enough. Then in the early 1980s (when most of you weren't even born) I got another rude awakening. Primers had slipped up above $20. Then when Clinton showed up, they went to nearly $30. Things were OK for a while and they remained just under $30. Now suddenly they've taken another jump and some of the much maligned hoarders are dumping them at $50 and above if they find a buyer. Yes, I still have some of the $7 ones. Better still I have a few hundred from my father that he bought in the 1950s (you can tell because they have wooden trays.)

If you're upset, its OK with me. Consider it a lesson in being prepared. If you're not, either find another hobby or tough it out. The most sound economic policy for those without ammo or anything else is to buy as little as you can survive without. We're all telling you the same thing. In the past every single shortage has been relieved by the free market system. Sure, there will be a higher "new normal", but it won't be nearly as high as us scalpers demand. Its foolish to attempt to buy a multi-year supply at the high rates. But remember there will be another a few years out. Learn from your mistakes.

The Japanese introduced a model of just-in-time. For shooting that means stop at Wallyworld on your way to the range and pick up a box of ammo. Works great until a few guys decide they want more than the single day's supply. Then what you see is what we currently have. Doesn't work so well. The marketplace is populated by guys who feel 100 rounds is plenty and then old coots like me who feel 50,000 is a good round number. All we can say with any certainty is that the guys with 100 rounds won't be shooting much an will spend a lot of time visiting WalMart trying to find more. Gasoline to get there, too. We also can say with a pretty good certainty that I'll still be shooting for a while.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:42 PM
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Dicks right.I learned to stock up on reloading supplies years ago and I have enough to last a long time.The 22 shortage caught me off guard,but I discovered I had several thousand rounds stashed away that I had forgotten about.Just wait until things are more normal and buy more than you plan to shoot right away.That stockpile will build nicely and when the next shortage comes you can gloat if you like 😏
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:51 PM
SickStroke6.0 SickStroke6.0 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bamabred View Post
Shoot me a PM and I'll send you some.
PM on the way. I see you're in Alabama too... Where are you finding ammo?

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Originally Posted by rburg View Post
So this is an amusing thread and from a different perspective. I notice that almost all posters here are new to the forum and it seems like shooting. Add young on top of it and we get the expected results. There is a different view. We've had ammo shortages and component shortages for years. They come and go, but about the only real common element is they reoccur.

For some background, back in the early 70s we had gasoline rationing caused by the "Arab oil embargo". The then liberal congress felt the fair way to solve it was to just allow everyone to buy a small amount and keep the price "reasonable." What happened was everyone found a way to cheat or they just didn't have enough. Some folks, like retirees or the unemployed actually had more than they needed. Others like those who drove long distances didn't have enough.

The current system seems better for ammo. If you want ammo, you can get it. Might not be at a price you want, but its out there. I have a friend who had 300 gallons of Shell's finest in his barn. He had connections and he used them.

I'm even amused at the guy who thinks 10,000 rounds is a bit much. Once you've been through this, you won't think that at all and you'll have that much as a "safety stock". I do, but I'm considering selling it because there are guys who want to shoot so badly they'll pay $100 a brick. But if they're building a supply at that kind of pricing, they'll be taking a huge loss. Sooner or later we can pretty accurately predict things will sort of return to normal. Meaning the Walmarts will all have their 550 packs for anyone who wants them. Sure, they'll cost more than the $13.42 I was paying 5 years ago. But keep in mind all prices are going up. You can't run trillion dollar deficits without igniting some inflation. I don't look at government numbers, I look at the price of a burger and fries. It keeps going up.

So what happens to the guy with 100,000 rounds who paid $100 a brick? He'll have to shoot it because he can't sell it for anything like his cost.

Another interesting parallel comes up with components. Todays price for a "brick" of primers, 1,000 of them, is about $37-40. Depends on the brand and seller. In my ancient stock I've still got some that were around $7. I was incensed when they doubled to $14. When supplies stabilized and I saw some at $9 I bought a bunch. Then I stopped buying because I had enough. Then in the early 1980s (when most of you weren't even born) I got another rude awakening. Primers had slipped up above $20. Then when Clinton showed up, they went to nearly $30. Things were OK for a while and they remained just under $30. Now suddenly they've taken another jump and some of the much maligned hoarders are dumping them at $50 and above if they find a buyer. Yes, I still have some of the $7 ones. Better still I have a few hundred from my father that he bought in the 1950s (you can tell because they have wooden trays.)

If you're upset, its OK with me. Consider it a lesson in being prepared. If you're not, either find another hobby or tough it out. The most sound economic policy for those without ammo or anything else is to buy as little as you can survive without. We're all telling you the same thing. In the past every single shortage has been relieved by the free market system. Sure, there will be a higher "new normal", but it won't be nearly as high as us scalpers demand. Its foolish to attempt to buy a multi-year supply at the high rates. But remember there will be another a few years out. Learn from your mistakes.

The Japanese introduced a model of just-in-time. For shooting that means stop at Wallyworld on your way to the range and pick up a box of ammo. Works great until a few guys decide they want more than the single day's supply. Then what you see is what we currently have. Doesn't work so well. The marketplace is populated by guys who feel 100 rounds is plenty and then old coots like me who feel 50,000 is a good round number. All we can say with any certainty is that the guys with 100 rounds won't be shooting much an will spend a lot of time visiting WalMart trying to find more. Gasoline to get there, too. We also can say with a pretty good certainty that I'll still be shooting for a while.
Very informational... I'm sure it will blow over soon, but it just stinks having a brand new M&P 15-22 without easily accessible ammo for a decent price. I have already began a plan to set aside $20 a week to buy a brick with after the shortage blows over. At this rate, I will collect 27.3k each year. I'll be satisfied when I hit 200k, and then I will probably slack off to a brick a month. Thanks for the insight!
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:01 PM
rburg rburg is offline
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Originally Posted by SickStroke6.0 View Post



At this rate, I will collect 27.3k each year. I'll be satisfied when I hit 200k, and then I will probably slack off to a brick a month.
Just be aware there is a drawback to that plan. I know because I hit it like a brick wall. Say things have gone well for you and you have the 200K rounds. Then one day your wife decides she wants a newer house. You're open to the idea because it might include a gun room. But then all your dreams come crashing down around you. Someone has to lug all that ammo out to a car or truck, drive it to the new house, the cart it back inside. Ug.

So the old saying you can't have too much ammo has some little side rules. If you've got to swim with it, you can have too much. Same goes for humping it uphill. Keep that in mind from the start. Also if you're on fire, you can have too much.

Hint: storing bricks of 22s is best done in a container designed to be lifted. In this instance milk cases seem to work pretty well. Except you can put more in one than you can lift and carry. The sweet spot seems to be just over half full. And they stack up to about 4 high. Higher means more lifting and back injuries.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:50 PM
the ringo kid the ringo kid is offline
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I got severely lucky this past Saturday and happened to be buying a new pair of good walking sneakers at Academy Sports and Outdoors store. I headed for their Customer Service counter where any ammo is held and attained from-fully expecting them to have none at all. On arrival--I saw many boxes of 9mm Winchester ammo available for about $21. They have a 3 box per day rule--but one box per caliber. So I asked if they had any .22 and 30-40-and 8mm--none--I was about to leave when the lady said they had 9mm-brands that were not visible on the counter..

She asked if I had a 9mm hand gun-said yup and I asked that since nothing else I wanted was available, could I get 3 boxes of 9mm? She said nope-so I said I have another person with me so if I could get 2 boxes? She said as long as the other person pays for one and I the other? I said no problem, gave mine to the other person to pay-having handed her the cash--paid for mine and was about to leave the store and noticed the shift was changing so--I barely felt guilty when I decided to try pulling a fast one--and waited a few minutes then went to the counter and was thinking of getting two more boxes of 50 rounds-but my friend already went to get the car-so I limited my greed to one more box. This was on Saturday. Well I was thinking that maybe the ammo situation was starting to get better? Well, I was in the area again today and--nope--everything already sold out. Apparently most of the shoppers on Saturday were only thinking of BBqs, eating out or having a good time with the family--so buying ammo might have slipped their minds temporarily.

Sorry to sound so sneaky but--when I have not seen 9mm on the shelves in my area for a year--I took a chance and got 3 boxes of 50 Winchester made 9mm cartridges.

The last tiny bit of ammo purchasing success I had-was when I was able to get 2 boxes of Winchester made .22. They and every other retailer in my area with the exception for one gun shop thats been here for 1 year--nobody has had 22 in stock and most for at least a year. The new gun shop I went to-had the same Winchester .22 and 9MM in stock (and the guy admitted to paying people to stand in line to buy for him) and for what I paid for a single box of .22--which was $3.50--he had for almost $30.00 I paid roughly $21 for a box of Winchester 9mm--he had his listed at $95.

Mildly put--I want ammo-but not that desperate. I can get it for various prices through a few varied sources I know--so paying this guys prices I will not be doing.

Sorry for my rant--im off my soapbox now.

PS, the other 9MM brands not visible on the counter were Federal and PMC. I ended up with my favorite being the Winchester.

Last edited by the ringo kid; 05-13-2013 at 06:52 PM.
  #29  
Old 05-13-2013, 07:13 PM
bbqbob51 bbqbob51 is offline
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During the shortage of 2008-2009 I had just barely enough to shoot. It felt like there would never be any ammo available again. Of course it did become available and at times actually was on sale, Palmetto State Armory had .357mag FMJ on sale last summer for $15.99 per 50 round box with free shipping! I bought 4 boxes which is what have done for the past 4 years, buy when the deals are good. I never panicked and bought tons of something but when it was on sale I picked up a few boxes.
Last summer Cabela's had 2100 rounds of Federal 22lr in a 50cal steel ammo box on sale for $74.99, $10 off and I picked up one. I used something like $8 of my rewards point I had on my Cabela's Visa card so I paid less than $70, for 2100 rounds not 550! I have bought next to nothing since December because I have enough to last me more than a year of normal shooting for me so I plan on waiting for things calm a bit and the prices and supply settle down. When it does I will buy when on sale...hopefully!
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:31 PM
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I have 700 rounds of 9 mm left. I figure I have a 7 month supply. When it is gone I will not replace my .20 per round ammo for .50 nor will I replace my .04 per round 22lr for .10 per round.

My income has not doubled in the last 6 months and I will find another hobby before I pay double the price.

I have already noticed the indoor range near my home on a Saturday is only half full.

These prices can only stay up if Homeland Security is allowed to continue to stockpile billions of rounds.

Please write your Congressman and tell them to stop funding any government agency that is hoarding ammo with the intent to artificially inflate ammo prices.

Russ
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:36 PM
the ringo kid the ringo kid is offline
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Originally Posted by bbqbob51 View Post
During the shortage of 2008-2009 I had just barely enough to shoot. It felt like there would never be any ammo available again. Of course it did become available and at times actually was on sale, Palmetto State Armory had .357mag FMJ on sale last summer for $15.99 per 50 round box with free shipping! I bought 4 boxes which is what have done for the past 4 years, buy when the deals are good. I never panicked and bought tons of something but when it was on sale I picked up a few boxes.
Last summer Cabela's had 2100 rounds of Federal 22lr in a 50cal steel ammo box on sale for $74.99, $10 off and I picked up one. I used something like $8 of my rewards point I had on my Cabela's Visa card so I paid less than $70, for 2100 rounds not 550! I have bought next to nothing since December because I have enough to last me more than a year of normal shooting for me so I plan on waiting for things calm a bit and the prices and supply settle down. When it does I will buy when on sale...hopefully!
Cabela's is a great place. I wish we had them here in my area.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:40 PM
the ringo kid the ringo kid is offline
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Originally Posted by RussC View Post
I have 700 rounds of 9 mm left. I figure I have a 7 month supply. When it is gone I will not replace my .20 per round ammo for .50 nor will I replace my .04 per round 22lr for .10 per round.

My income has not doubled in the last 6 months and I will find another hobby before I pay double the price.

I have already noticed the indoor range near my home on a Saturday is only half full.

These prices can only stay up if Homeland Security is allowed to continue to stockpile billions of rounds.

Please write your Congressman and tell them to stop funding any government agency that is hoarding ammo with the intent to artificially inflate ammo prices.

Russ
Hi Russ, that's my points exactly. Ill buy but not at the prices set by those at Gun shows or that gun shop I was talking about. Prices will fall and will take a bit of time--just like Gas prices.

However, when that happens? I have learned my lesson and will buy a few boxes of ammo per month--just in case. A good friend of mine in Washington has been buying for years now--at least 2-3 boxes a month of whatever he has--and has enough to fill a few footlockers full.

What I have can barely fill a single M-60 ammo can.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:01 PM
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All I will say is we are our own worst enemy...as long as there are those they will pay the grossly inflated prices, they (the dealers) will have no reason to lower them.
Me?? I am glad I have a local shop that does not ship ammo and does not gouge prices....JMO
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:05 PM
Ammobob Ammobob is offline
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Originally Posted by strobro32 View Post
Hi Bob. Welcome.

I'm going to be direct. I love to shoot rimfire. I have a lot of .22 ammo. I have been collecting .22 LR for 10 years because I've been caught in the many gun buying frenzies. I have not bought any since Sandyhook. I have sold some recently because lead is gold right now.

Ammo is not food, at least not yet. You have no right to have it at cheap prices. The only right you have to it is slowly being chipped away every day. The "fair market" is just that. I think it's time to read The Little Red Hen again. The Little Red Hen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm sorry this has happened to you. The bullets will come back soon. I'm sure you will become like some of us an put a few extra away. Remember, the next ammo shortage is only another school shooting or election away. Good luck to you Sir.
I am extremely familiar with economics, supply and demand, and the free market system, and would have it no other way, as I said. It makes no difference to me, as I have several thousand rounds of my go to calibers at all times. However, the problem is for me, that I see some very unethical and questionable behavior going on out there, from gun guys, to gun guys. As I said, to me, it will always be unethical to sell something you are still only paying $20 or less for for $500 just to take advantage of someone's need or panic. To me, that is beyond greedy, and unethical. If that doesn't bother you, I guess there is no since for you and I to discuss it really. Thanks for the input. (and the little red hen story doesn't really apply.)

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Old 05-13-2013, 09:11 PM
Ammobob Ammobob is offline
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Originally Posted by RedNeck Jim View Post
Interesting comment... one that looks like two completely different people wrote. In one sentence you state one should be able to buy however much ammo he wants and in the same sentence state anything above some arbitrary number you have set is excessive.

You can't have it both ways. Either you are for a free market... or you aren't. Be like me telling my wife 10 pair of shoes is enough. To some 10 pair is enough but I sure don't want the government or anyone else sticking their nose into her business telling her what they think is enough. Same with any other, non essential commodity... such as guns and ammo.
I agree with you. It is the ethical dilemma that I am struggling with. While it is perfectly reasonable to sell for whatever you wish, and buy for whatever you can afford, we come to the thought that just because you CAN do something doesn't always mean you SHOULD. I am completely fine with free market ideals, but excessive greed bothers me.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:15 PM
Ammobob Ammobob is offline
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Free market, free country (still...kinda), freedom to think and say what you want. I do find the relationship between your forum name and the topic of your post somewhat ironic. Carry on.
It was an interesting coincidence. Being "Bob" I tried many other things gun related to go with it. Ammo was the only thing that worked after about the 3rd or 4th try, so ammobob it is. Has nothing to do with my question.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:16 PM
Smitty357 Smitty357 is offline
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Some people have more money than they do sense.

And then there is the others who have more brass than they do primers.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:21 PM
Nitrous SSC Nitrous SSC is offline
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All the retired people of America have banded together and realized if they get all the 22 ammo off the shelf as soon as its placed there they can sell it for more because everyone else that has a job can't be at the shooting store. So they sell it to them for more. Our local classifieds people are selling it for 45-50$ a brick, its ridiculous. Eventually their pension checks will be used up and it will go back down. Every time I visit the local sporting stores there are old guys in fold out chairs waiting. Its so sad.

"free market" is a term being used by the gougers to further their personal rip off goals. However fear not. There are tight groups of active shooters that are NOT ripping each other off and helping one another out. I was able to score 2lbs of tight group simply because I'm out shooting regularly with the local events.

When the floor drops out (and it will) people will have so much .22 they won't know what to do with it. I'm seeing it already with Pmags. People loosing their asses on spending $30 a piece for them now can't get rid of them for 18$ because the market is flooded. Soon you will see P-mags on your local classifieds going for less than retail. (as long as no one else goes bonkers with an AR)

Its a stupid panic that will pass. DO NOT FEED INTO IT. If you go buy a brick of 22 for $40 punch yourself in the face. Simply wait a month or 2 and don't go shooting.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
Sorry, I joined the ranks of the hoarders last week. I have been an accumulator since Bill Clinton won in 1992. I was in the local big box store and there was this single box of ammo setting there all lonely so I bought it. It was a 1,000 round box of 7.62X51mm M80 NATO. I didn't need it, but it looked so lonely there by itself.
LC, you are a compassionate soul. I kinda got a tear or two flowing as I typed this ...

Now go do the logical thing and get yourself something that uses that ammo, if you REALLY did not need it.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:25 PM
Ammobob Ammobob is offline
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Originally Posted by Bamabred View Post
Bob, I understand your frustration. I'm new to rifle shooting. Bought a 15-22 in January, and didn't know there was an ammo shortage until afterwards. I am one of those who has over 5k-10k rounds.

This morning I went to Wal-Mart to pick some stuff for the wife. Went by the ammo case and they got a huge shipment in. 9mm, 7.62x39, .223, and a lot of 22lr. They had cases of 333 Winchester; boxes of CCI Mini Mag (which I have never actually seen in the wild until today). They had bricks of CCI Quiet. You get the point.

I grabbed 3 boxes of 333 Winchester even though I have ammo. I'll be honest, I've sold some ammo (@ .07 -.08 a round). I've given ammo away to church members. I sell it for two reason. One, so I can pay for what I shoot. Two, it helps me give some away.

If I leave some "meat on the bone" I have no way of knowing who is less fortunate and who is going to sell it online for $100 a brick. So, I buy it so I'll know it goes to a good home. Folks may not like it, but I don't like driving all over the place looking for ammo either. Ammo is not a need (yet). And judging by Wal-mart and my LGS, the situation is getting better. Be patient.
I can understand that. I also have sold ammo for what I had in it, and given some away myself. I have a few thousand rounds set back in a secure location for all of my major calibers, as well as a good stock of food, water, tp, ect. I don't have a problem with stocking up, or prepping, or even hoarding. What bothers me is the people who are greed driven above anything else. The fact that a person would even think to charge $1.00 a round for .22lr just makes me sick to my stomach. (the whole ethics thing)

And I do disagree with you on one point, ammo IS a need. Without it you can't really protect yourself and loved ones from people who have it.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:27 PM
Nitrous SSC Nitrous SSC is offline
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And I do disagree with you on one point, ammo IS a need. Without it you can't really protect yourself and loved ones from people who have it.
A few hundred rounds? understandable. A few thousand? Come on. You'll be dead by the time you can fire off .22LR's. What are you going to shoot at as a threat? The hoard of rabid jackrabbits?
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  #42  
Old 05-13-2013, 09:28 PM
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just look at the in stock .22lr ammo thread. look a peoples posts that mostly joined this year. their posts are all for the in stock .22 ammo thread, no interest in 15-22s, just ammo. I say shut it down for good.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:30 PM
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just look at the in stock .22lr ammo thread. look a peoples posts that mostly joined this year. their posts are all for the in stock .22 ammo thread, no interest in 15-22s, just ammo. I say shut it down for good.
Agree'd. Its not a tight enough community to help each other out. It helps the lurkers that quietly charge up their credit cards then true shooters.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:39 PM
Ammobob Ammobob is offline
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So this is an amusing thread and from a different perspective. I notice that almost all posters here are new to the forum and it seems like shooting. Add young on top of it and we get the expected results. There is a different view. We've had ammo shortages and component shortages for years. They come and go, but about the only real common element is they reoccur.

For some background, back in the early 70s we had gasoline rationing caused by the "Arab oil embargo". The then liberal congress felt the fair way to solve it was to just allow everyone to buy a small amount and keep the price "reasonable." What happened was everyone found a way to cheat or they just didn't have enough. Some folks, like retirees or the unemployed actually had more than they needed. Others like those who drove long distances didn't have enough.

The current system seems better for ammo. If you want ammo, you can get it. Might not be at a price you want, but its out there. I have a friend who had 300 gallons of Shell's finest in his barn. He had connections and he used them.

I'm even amused at the guy who thinks 10,000 rounds is a bit much. Once you've been through this, you won't think that at all and you'll have that much as a "safety stock". I do, but I'm considering selling it because there are guys who want to shoot so badly they'll pay $100 a brick. But if they're building a supply at that kind of pricing, they'll be taking a huge loss. Sooner or later we can pretty accurately predict things will sort of return to normal. Meaning the Walmarts will all have their 550 packs for anyone who wants them. Sure, they'll cost more than the $13.42 I was paying 5 years ago. But keep in mind all prices are going up. You can't run trillion dollar deficits without igniting some inflation. I don't look at government numbers, I look at the price of a burger and fries. It keeps going up.

So what happens to the guy with 100,000 rounds who paid $100 a brick? He'll have to shoot it because he can't sell it for anything like his cost.

Another interesting parallel comes up with components. Todays price for a "brick" of primers, 1,000 of them, is about $37-40. Depends on the brand and seller. In my ancient stock I've still got some that were around $7. I was incensed when they doubled to $14. When supplies stabilized and I saw some at $9 I bought a bunch. Then I stopped buying because I had enough. Then in the early 1980s (when most of you weren't even born) I got another rude awakening. Primers had slipped up above $20. Then when Clinton showed up, they went to nearly $30. Things were OK for a while and they remained just under $30. Now suddenly they've taken another jump and some of the much maligned hoarders are dumping them at $50 and above if they find a buyer. Yes, I still have some of the $7 ones. Better still I have a few hundred from my father that he bought in the 1950s (you can tell because they have wooden trays.)

If you're upset, its OK with me. Consider it a lesson in being prepared. If you're not, either find another hobby or tough it out. The most sound economic policy for those without ammo or anything else is to buy as little as you can survive without. We're all telling you the same thing. In the past every single shortage has been relieved by the free market system. Sure, there will be a higher "new normal", but it won't be nearly as high as us scalpers demand. Its foolish to attempt to buy a multi-year supply at the high rates. But remember there will be another a few years out. Learn from your mistakes.

The Japanese introduced a model of just-in-time. For shooting that means stop at Wallyworld on your way to the range and pick up a box of ammo. Works great until a few guys decide they want more than the single day's supply. Then what you see is what we currently have. Doesn't work so well. The marketplace is populated by guys who feel 100 rounds is plenty and then old coots like me who feel 50,000 is a good round number. All we can say with any certainty is that the guys with 100 rounds won't be shooting much an will spend a lot of time visiting WalMart trying to find more. Gasoline to get there, too. We also can say with a pretty good certainty that I'll still be shooting for a while.
Actually I am not too young myself, remember the gas shortages and all the other mentioned things. I have an emergency storage of many things, food, water , ammo, ect in case things get ugly, and I have for years. The military if nothing else teaches you to be prepared. (not to mention boy scouts lol!)

As I have said in numerous posts, I don't have any problems with the system, and I am not upset that I got caught without a stock of .22lr. (I actually never considered for a second that .22 would be an issue and that's my fault)

What bothers me is the greed, and lack of ethics in the market. Especially in stores that cater to gun folks. They have to know about repeat business and word of mouth, and their business was built on the backs of gun folks, yet they jump on the $1.00 a round for .22lr bandwagon. I expect that from auction sites and scalpers, but I don't expect it from gun stores. I appreciate an overhead and a decent markup to cover it. But this is NOT what's happening and we both know it.

I find it odd when I can trust walmart to keep the prices normal and not my lgs, when I have been loyal to my lgs, and spent more gun related money there to support them than I ever did or will walmart. At these prices I feel like they owe me a dinner and a kiss for what they are trying to do to me. And that, to me, is the problem. It's unethical and greedy flat out.
  #45  
Old 05-13-2013, 09:49 PM
Ammobob Ammobob is offline
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A few hundred rounds? understandable. A few thousand? Come on. You'll be dead by the time you can fire off .22LR's. What are you going to shoot at as a threat? The hoard of rabid jackrabbits?
If necessary, yes. Actually .22lr is one of the primary calibers in a survival type situation for food gathering. Cheap, light, accurate, quiet, and can kill a large variety of game. I would hunt with it for anything smaller than deer before I would use up my larger, more expensive ammo.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:56 PM
sonjason sonjason is offline
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I can't believe this post is still going. We all know the ammo "shortage" is BS and that a free market creates gouging. Some of you may remember when Nintendo Wii was a hot commodity... Didn't take long until everyone that wanted it had one and then you couldn't give one away and the stores were full of them. That day is coming folks. Now shut down the in stock ammo thread and quit paying ridiculous prices for ammo and this **** will go away.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:00 PM
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strobro32 strobro32 is offline
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I am extremely familiar with economics, supply and demand, and the free market system, and would have it no other way, as I said. It makes no difference to me, as I have several thousand rounds of my go to calibers at all times. However, the problem is for me, that I see some very unethical and questionable behavior going on out there, from gun guys, to gun guys. As I said, to me, it will always be unethical to sell something you are still only paying $20 or less for for $500 just to take advantage of someone's need or panic. To me, that is beyond greedy, and unethical. If that doesn't bother you, I guess there is no since for you and I to discuss it really. Thanks for the input. (and the little red hen story doesn't really apply.)
We are not talking about air, food or water. .22 LR ammo is a nonessential commodity, like booze. A commodity is worth what the market will pay. Just because I bought gold in 1987 for $350 an oz does not mean I will sell it to you for that. There is nothing unethical about that.

BTW, The Little Red Hen is completely relevant for all the people who feel entitled to the spoils, benefits (or pricing) of all hard working, prepared and experienced people of the world. If the price of ammo is too high, don't buy. Just wait. It will come down.

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  #48  
Old 05-13-2013, 10:08 PM
Nitrous SSC Nitrous SSC is offline
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If necessary, yes. Actually .22lr is one of the primary calibers in a survival type situation for food gathering. Cheap, light, accurate, quiet, and can kill a large variety of game. I would hunt with it for anything smaller than deer before I would use up my larger, more expensive ammo.
Good luck spending days tracking down what you shot.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:10 PM
Ammobob Ammobob is offline
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We are not talking about air, food or water. .22 LR ammo is a nonessential commodity, like booze. A commodity is worth what the market will pay. Just because I bought gold in 1987 for $350 an oz does not mean I will sell it to you for that. There is nothing unethical about that.

BTW, The Little Red Hen is completely relevant for all the people who feel entitled to the spoils, benefits (or pricing) of all hard working, prepared and experienced people of the world. If the price of ammo is too high, don't buy. Just wait. It will come down.
Yes, but I am not a something for nothing guy, and this is not a something for nothing question, it is a question of ethics. In my opinion. And I have also seen people exhibit this behavior to people in desperate need with vital supplies. I'm not knocking anyone trying to make a decent wage, or earn a living. When I see my local gun store put a $85.00 sticker over a $20.99 walmart sticker, THAT I have a problem with.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:12 PM
canvsbk canvsbk is offline
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I'm old enough to remember the $100 cabbage patch dolls.....
Things will settle down, they always do. I try to stay 2-3 years ahead on reloading stuff but I gotta admit this .22 thing caught me off guard, I haven't counted my .22 shells since high school days, but I watch it pretty close now.
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