Would anybody be interested in an Aluminum 80% lower for the 15-22?
Standard AR width or 15-22 width?
What would you like on it?
Push button sling swivels?
Standard buffer tube threads?
Folding stock option?
Standard or oversize trigger guard?
They would be as machined and not anodized so the finishing options are limitless.
Your input will be used for the final decision.

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Buy cheap, pay twice.

I would... Make it as standard as an AR as you can. Trigger guard should be removable. Everything else sounds great! Why not create a replacement upper as well?

I would. And I agree w/ @kingfhb...standard AR. Sling swivels would be cool. Threaded buffer tube, too.

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LE6920 M&P 15-22 M&P 9 10-22TD

YES PLEASE TO EVERYTHING YOU SAID....

As close to a standard AR lower as you can get and still mount the 15-22 upper.

Removable trigger guard.

Standard buffer tube threads.

Jig to finish lower.

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Molon Labe!

Jody,

This is quite an interesting question you pose. I would say it has to be as close to the
actual AR lower as possible, while maintaining all the functionality fit and finish of the
15-22. I would say that threaded for a receiver extension tube is a must, as is the
ability to use any standard AR trigger guard.

Price is going to be the sore point. You will be machining this in the U.S.A. out of
Billet T6065, I'm thinking it's going to be hard to match the price point of a standard
AR Forged Lower and I'm not sure if anyone is going to spend "billet money" for a
15-22 lower (which also has to go through an FFL).

I would think we would be better off if you could machine a T6065 Billet Upper rather
than a lower? I dunno! Either way I want to see it happen!

IN !! where do I send my money?

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J.P.

Interesting idea!


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I'm betting you will likely get a cease and desist order from S&W over this because I don't think the patents have run out. Anything that uses something that is dimensionally unique to the 15-22 is probably covered. One reason why Plinker and Promag got those requests from S&W to stop making their magazines.

If the lower is 80% machined, you no longer are required to go through an FFL, after all it isn't serialized. Just purchase it as any other gun part.

Take. My. Money!

All of it!

An aluminum lower doesn't do it for me. Why not just buy a dedicated AR-22 at that point? I like the MP because it is so light weight.

There is really nothing unique about the 15-22 lower other than material. The mag companies got into trouble about the patent on the bolt stop feature. That little plastic piece that sticks out of the magazine to push up on the bolt catch.
It looks like some kind of deal has been worked out.

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Buy cheap, pay twice.

So a "regular" lower for an AR15 doesn't require the FFL and a serial number if it is 80% machined?

Nevermind....I understand....

Another alternative would be to bypass the Federal Firearms License/background check process, purchase an upper receiver assembly, lower parts kit, stock and buy an 80% lower receiver. An 80% lower receiver is an unfinished AR-15 lower receiver that requires the end user to mill out and drill the last 20% percent to make a functioning receiver that can accept a lower parts kit.

A lower receiver completed beyond 80% is considered a firearm by the BATFE, hence the name 80% lower.

Per:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...receiver-part/

This is not legal advice, it's not even my wording.
I copied it from; 80% Lower Receiver Information | Tactical Machining

What is an 80% receiver?

An 80% Receiver is a partially completed piece of material that requires special tooling and skills to be completed and considered a firearm. Unlike a firearm receiver it is not required to be transferred through a Federal Firearms Licensed holder (FFL).

Legalities

A lot of questions have been raised about how our 80% AR-15 Lower Receivers can be considered non-firearms. We've received a determination letter from the ATF stating that the ATF does not view this as a firearm because to complete the receiver it requires specialized skills and tooling.

Do I need an FFL to make a firearm?

In a short answer, no. As long as you can legally own the firearm in the state, county and city you reside in you are allowed to manufacture a firearm for your own personal use. No serial number is required however it is suggested to engrave a serial number, model and manufacturer on your receiver in case it is lost or stolen.

All National Firearms Act (NFA) regulations apply to your firearm. You may create a short-barreled rifle out of your firearm via a BATFE (Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosive) Form 1 after BATFE approval.

Recommended Tools

Completing an 80% Lower Receiver can be accomplished using a variety of tooling and methods, the most common methods require using a manual mill or a drill press. Both manual mills and drill presses can be purchased off web sites like craigslist or ebay as well as from local tooling suppliers. Once you have the machine of your choice, end mills and drills will be required to complete the remaining operations.

Resources

There are many resources on the internet you can use to acquire help and information from the home build gunsmith community. Some of our recommended forums are the following: Tactical Machining Build it yourself forums. Our resource center includes information and advice to commonly asked questions as well as direct answers from us on any question you may have. Weapons Guild & Home Gunsmith - Weapons guild and home gun smith are two great communities of home builders who would be more than happy to help you in your 80% completion project.

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Buy cheap, pay twice.

No interest from me, but if you proceed, I wish you all the best.

I'm from the school of thought that the designers of the 15-22 knew exactly what they were doing and there is no need to "fix" their design. I can't imagine needing an all metal 15-22, but if I did I would rather buy a 22 AR, or 22 upper to go on my AR, than re-engineer an existing gun.

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

With that mentality we would still be using swords and shields... or clubs and rocks. Innovative designs drive the world my friend. "What I got is good enuf" is how we never progress.

Just saying.

Turning a plastic plinker into something that already exists is not innovative. What new is being talked about here? Has your polymer 15-22 failed you? What will this product offer that is innovative or better than buying a 22 AR or putting a 22 upper on your AR?

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

You're right. You keep rubbing sticks together. I'll use my zippo.


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If Smith offered an aluminum 15-22 for an extra $100, I probably would have been all over it. But I wouldn't buy an 80% lower, or even a 100% lower for it today.

And out of curiosity, why buffer tube threads? No buffer or spring needed, so why go through the extra machining?

How else would you mount a stock?
The back end could be machined to accept any different kind of folding stocks.

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Buy cheap, pay twice.

For the wannabes.

You didn't answer my questions. No offense to Tacticool, but how is this innovative? Is it new technology? Does it improve upon a 22 AR or 22 upper? Does it offer the same benefits of the above but at a lower price?

I'm not trying to be cute but just want to understand the logic here?

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

The whole point about an aluminum lower for the 15-22 is BECAUSE
The whole point about an 80% lower is BECAUSE I CAN and it's NOYB what I own.

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Buy cheap, pay twice.

Does putting a B.A.D. lever on a 15-22 make it any better of a weapon? Or a set of BUIS? Or any tactical add-on whatsoever?? Or does the Magpul version of the 15-22 shoot better than the Basic version? No. It's innovative because it allows for the weapon to be equipped and outfitted exactly like an actual AR-15 without any adapters or modifications to the lower. It's innovative because it would allow for standard AR items other than just a trigger to be used... folding stocks, non-collapsible stocks, etc. It would allow for a Delta ring assembly without the adapter or the "gap" between the lower and the delta ring. It would allow a standard free floating hand guard to be used out of the box.

Mimicking the actual platform of the AR-15 is the goal. Training... with a 15-22 that exactly mimics the AR-15 you're training with something that is as close as possible (Aside from a dedicated upper on an AR lower) to the real thing. If you don't understand the value of training with weapons that closely resemble the real thing than you've obviously never served any time in the Military, Law Enforcement or the Security field.

If the adapters that allow some of these same modifications are innovative, why wouldn't an 80% lower that incorporates everything you need the adapters for and THEN SOME be innovative???

I think your Logo is going to look awesome engraved in that lower!

Once I get my CNC Mill all set up, I think one of my projects is going to be, crafting
my own lower from scratch. Lots of waste but how cool to say "I made that, no, really...
I MADE that!"

Folding..... Or maybe Tacticool22 could fab a modular QD reciever extension tube.

Maybe better design an alternative to Magpul B.A.D.

My 2 pennies... But maybe rather than trying to get as close as possible to an AR lower... big yawn... a more unique lower that would bring something special to the 1522 rather than just a CMMG lower that fits.

I am thinking AR width so any safety and trigger group could be used.
The AR stuff is such a huge yawn. I was at the SHOT show and there was nothing that jumped out. It felt like European vacation when they were stuck in the roundabout, except this time it was "Hey look, another AR"
Well, there was one AR that had replaceable mag wells so you could use all kinds of different mags. From pistol to AK.

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Buy cheap, pay twice.

I like the idea. It seems to me it is a nitch item thru. I see cost being a big hurdle to get over for some. I agree with some of the other forum members in that I would like to see a metal upper. But, what better way to complement a metal upper than with a metal lower. So, for my two cents, well one cent(taxes for thinking), I say it is a idea worth some time looking into.

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15T,15-22,5946 & some not S&W

The long answer is YES!

I like the idea. If you can, why not? I would consider getting one.

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Semper Fi

That's fine, your gun, your call, but as long as S&W's patents are in place (know when they expire?) it seems we're pretty much dead ended. You can't even reasonably get an aftermarket barrel. I would like to have a light weight barrel. We're stuck. The other thing becomes cost. By the time you're done "mimicking" you could could have had the "real" AR you're mimicking.

Don't misunderstand, I like my 15-22, but it's for Ruger (now NSSF) Rimfire Challenge. I could have built a 10-22 but the 15-22 seems to run more reliably, fewer magazine/feeding issues.

So, am I "interested in an Aluminum 80% lower"? Not really.

I guess I just envisioned a bar of aluminum just like the 15-22 has the plastic.

has mine shipped yet? Can't wait

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J.P.

I understand what you are saying but you are not answering my question. If you want to mimic an AR as close as possible, why change the nature of the 15-22? Why not buy something that already exists? If your whole point is 100%, why buy a 15-22 anyway? When I bought mine, I knew what I was getting. If I felt it critical to be 100%, I would have bought the real thing.

Once again, not trying to be a jerk but I am a businessman. A vendor is asking if folks want a product. So sell it. Don't tell me you can innovate the 15-22 to be almost 100% like an AR. Tell me why this product is better than the options already out there. I'm certainly not saying it isn't but would like to see the selling points... besides making it do what other product already does. That is the whole point of marketing... giving folks a reason to choose your product over something different.

I bought a 15-22 because I was willing to accept it not being a 100% AR clone. The advantage over a dedicated upper was that for about the same price, I could have a 2nd complete rifle. That is a selling point for the 15-22. So why don't we discuss why we should buy a new lower for the 15-22?

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

Why?

Because I want it.

No further discussion needed.

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Molon Labe!

But what can U do for my 87A Springfield. Here is a firearm that can really shoot, just needs some tweaking. How about an aluminum lower? LOL

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Painted my Mag release red

Hate on it if you want, I don't see it weighing much more than it already does.

I'd be thrilled, having an AGP folding stock on a 15-22 for example.

I wouldnt call it hating... just a difference between hobbyist and practical.

I'm somewhere inbetween. If I want a metal upper/lower conversion for my 1522 then I'm going to buy all the parts at once and call it a CMMG. On the other hand, if there was a unique application for a different 1522 lower such as a folding or QD reciever extention tube (really like the idea of a QD extension), right side bolt release system better than BAD, or some other cool thing that Tacticool22 might dream up, then that would be of interest to me.

So is that something Tacticool could offer without building a whole new, metal receiver or would the enhancement require a new one? Seems like most people are wanting some sort of unique stock for their 15-22.

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FIDELITAS ET FORTITUDO

There was a vid a while back of a guy who hacked off the extension tube on a 1522 lower and somehow rigged it to accept a threaded extension tube. It wasn't something that looked like I wanted to try.

The folding stock on my Sig522 SWAT is convenient. When I'm done shooting I can just fold the stock and slip it in the carry bag without having to remove the suppressor. I could buy a much longer bag but prefer shorter.

Jody, please clarify…are you proposing to market 80% lowers specifically for the 15 22 for the purchaser to complete, or are you offering the machining service to complete an available existing 80% lower to 100% for the S&W 15 22 application?

If it is the first option, go for it, I wish you the best of luck.

If it is the second option, have you considered…

All the 80% lowers I’ve ever seen have the pivot pin holes already drilled, which precludes using a stock S&W 15 22 upper since the front pivot pin hole is lower and farther forward in the S&W 15 22 upper than in a mil-spec AR upper.

Also, the magazine wells are already broached in an 80%, so that means the 15 22 mag will have more “wiggle” room fore and aft since it’s body length is just slightly smaller in the cartridge length direction than a 223 magazine body.

I'll take one, if you do them. My 15-22 would look good with an ACE SOCOM stock.

I'd be fairly interested in one.

The 15-22 is great, but it can't be set up identically to some AR-15's because of the receiver extension.

I love a UBR stock, and I run one on a shorty AR-15 with a mini can up front for balance. My 15-22 can't do that without some serious modification. Which is easier? Get a 15-22 lower and install the propriety UBR receiver extension and stock or permanently modify the lower, install mounting options and then do the stock?

I love the light weight of my 15-22 as it stands. I've even got light weight ABS plastic on it to keep it light, but it doesn't mimic it's bigger, smaller brother.

KBK

FYI, if Tacticool22 machines the 80% lower FOR someone, then selling it will require an FFL transfer. About the only reason most people buy an 80% lower is to nullify the FFL transfer hassle and expense.

Jody,

If you do this 80% lower, are you also going to provide a jig that people can buy to
properly locate all the holes and cuts?

You might want to be careful what you wish for, there.

Just sayin'.

Hmmm... Good point!

Couldn't we turn the lowers into... pistols since they technically started as nothing????

That's my question. Matching upper and lower to create a 15-22 pistol that uses bolt group, and the same magazines as a 15-22. Could be a fun project!

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Semper Fi