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Old 09-16-2016, 12:33 PM
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Default 15-22 Mistake?

Hello everyone,

Just bought a new 15-22 a couple of weeks ago. I haven't even fired it yet. I bought the older model because I like the handguard with rails all around and the big sights more than the newer one.
I also bought it because of so much talk about how great this rifle is but now I read that it was banned from an event because of issues, dangerous issues.

Any recommendations, should I sell before I even give it a chance? One thing I want is something that's safe. I have a family.

They are the number one priority above anything, no matter how much I love this 15-22.
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Old 09-16-2016, 12:44 PM
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If you have doubts about the rifle before even firing it, then i would definitely sell it.
Spoons are safe, get a spoon.
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Old 09-16-2016, 12:46 PM
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Most of us have not had the types of issues recently reported at the Appleseed events.

I would categorize it as about as safe as a firearm can get, given the mechanical parts and pressures/forces that are applied to it.

I've had OOB and pin walking incidents with the 15/22. The pins were due to trying a different trigger, and I'm sure I didn't seat everything correctly. The OOB I have no idea; my son was shooting at the time; I use a brass catcher so no shrapnel hit anyone.

Cheers!
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Old 09-16-2016, 01:02 PM
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Just so that we are clear, the rifle, the 15-22 was banned from Appleseed events. Due to malfunctions...they do not state anywhere within the descriptions of these malfunctions, what equipment was being used. IF they were stock from the factory with no add ons or changes then S&W will be responsible for any damages that occurred.

HOWEVER we all like to tinker, i'm sure that the reason most of us opted for the 15-22 was for its 'compatibility' with AR parts, swap this, add on that. Lets get one thing straight IT IS NOT AN AR...we all know the width of the lower is different, for anyone who has replaced their trigger they are running a trigger meant for an AR and not specifically for a 15-22 (CMC aside) So, without knowing if the rifles that malfunctioned at the Appleseed had replacement triggers or springs or other non supplied S&W parts then we can only hold judgement on the rifle.

ONE thing is for sure that if S&W take these concerns and find out that the malfunctions happened with rifles that had different triggers or springs in then they will just laugh at any attempt at blame and set their legal teams on anyone who tries to slander their company. IF S&W are putting out inferior built rifles (which seems to be an issue with the latest sport version, lots of extraction reported problems) Then expect recalls.

Until we know if the problem was the rifle, the replacements or the operator, we can assume that ALL our 15-22's are safe.

Always check and clean your equipment prior to shooting because your safety is paramount.
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Old 09-16-2016, 01:13 PM
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Only you can decide if the rifle is right for you and your family.

I have two of them. One has been shot primarily by my son (now 13) for the past three years. The other is newer and is shot primarily by me. We have had no issues that I would consider dangerous. The older rifle has been back to S&W (twice sadly) for repair of light strikes and extraction issues. Annoying, yes . . . dangerous, no. It has fired well over 10,000 rounds so far.
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Old 09-16-2016, 01:14 PM
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Meanwhile don't plan on using your 1522 at any Appleseed event!

M&P 15/22s Banned At Appleseed Events After Out Of Battery and “Run Away” Discharges – Bearing Arms
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Old 09-16-2016, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostMutt View Post
Just so that we are clear, the rifle, the 15-22 was banned from Appleseed events. Due to malfunctions...they do not state anywhere within the descriptions of these malfunctions, what equipment was being used. IF they were stock from the factory with no add ons or changes then S&W will be responsible for any damages that occurred.

HOWEVER we all like to tinker, i'm sure that the reason most of us opted for the 15-22 was for its 'compatibility' with AR parts, swap this, add on that. Lets get one thing straight IT IS NOT AN AR...we all know the width of the lower is different, for anyone who has replaced their trigger they are running a trigger meant for an AR and not specifically for a 15-22 (CMC aside) So, without knowing if the rifles that malfunctioned at the Appleseed had replacement triggers or springs or other non supplied S&W parts then we can only hold judgement on the rifle.

ONE thing is for sure that if S&W take these concerns and find out that the malfunctions happened with rifles that had different triggers or springs in then they will just laugh at any attempt at blame and set their legal teams on anyone who tries to slander their company. IF S&W are putting out inferior built rifles (which seems to be an issue with the latest sport version, lots of extraction reported problems) Then expect recalls.

Until we know if the problem was the rifle, the replacements or the operator, we can assume that ALL our 15-22's are safe.

Always check and clean your equipment prior to shooting because your safety is paramount.
Wow so are you telling me that the Sport is also known for having issues? Today is not a good day for me. I bought a Sport 2 just months ago too.
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Old 09-16-2016, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten_Lights View Post
Wow so are you telling me that the Sport is also known for having issues? Today is not a good day for me. I bought a Sport 2 just months ago too.
We are talking about the S&W M&P 15-22 sport.

People generally post on this forum with issues, especially new owners (i know i did-nothing serious in my case just asking for advice) However reading the forum of late it seems that there are a few peeps out there who have had problems with extraction issues with the new sport versions. These and i will stress that these are isolated issues, you never hear from the same posters after they have presumable had their rifles fixed. I am sure there are plenty of folks who have sports and have never even heard of this forum and don't care to know, who shoot their rifles without any issues at all.

A forum where people come for help with issues is not a reliable database for the performance of the rifle in a general sense. I have shot thousands of rounds through mine, changed and swapped pretty much everything i can, (except the handguard) and have never had an issue with my rifle that was not ammo related, never had a stovepipe or any other issues related to the bolt or the blowback action of the rifle. I have replaced the trigger, the pins are noticeably narrower than the lower, but they as long as they sit without moving then i will never expect to have any issues. I do check regularly if they have walked and in over 2000 rounds they have not moved a mm.

Fire your rifle, if you like it keep it, if it malfunctions when you fire it, take it back to the store where you bought it and exchange it for something else....just bear in mind that OOB are rare and 'run aways' are virtually unheard of...and can happen in ANY rifle.

Only you can decide if the rifle is right for you, i have a family as well and can understand your apprehension, but without firing it, it is unwarranted and pure guess work.
I plan on teaching my kids with my 15-22 when they are a couple of years older. I have confidence in my 15-22.
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:59 PM
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I'm happy to let my left handed 12 y/o shoot my 15-22.

Mine has had over 10k rounds through it, often 500+ in a day and goes ages without cleaning.

I have ordered an after market ejector, because I can. It runs like a sewing machine on 555 and Highland HVHP, runs on CCI Velocitors and Stingers, runs on Winchester SuperX and Remington Subsonics. It does not like Gecco standard velocity.

I am happy to keep shooting mine.
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Old 09-16-2016, 03:05 PM
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See, a little reassurance from all of you and now when I get home I'm going to take my 15-22 out and stare at her all over again.
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Old 09-16-2016, 03:46 PM
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And you know whatever happens if there is a problem with the gun S&W will make it right. They have too many of these sold, want to continue selling them and have their companies reputation on the line. I would expect that if no problem is found with the gun S&W will want the world to know exactly what the issue is. Again to protect their reputation and continue selling the 15-22.
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Old 09-17-2016, 09:14 PM
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If you are worried. Just send it to me and I will keep you posted on how much fun it is to shoot.
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Old 09-17-2016, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayback View Post
I'm happy to let my left handed 12 y/o shoot my 15-22.

Mine has had over 10k rounds through it, often 500+ in a day and goes ages without cleaning.

I have ordered an after market ejector, because I can. It runs like a sewing machine on 555 and Highland HVHP, runs on CCI Velocitors and Stingers, runs on Winchester SuperX and Remington Subsonics. It does not like Gecco standard velocity.

I am happy to keep shooting mine.
I installed an ALG FCG, JP yellow trigger spring, JoeBob's trigger adjustment screw, and a Volquartsen extractor. Gun runs flawlessly, and will eat anything I feed it.
As I said somewhere else, between my son and I, we burned through approximarly 300 rounds in a few hours shooting a steel challenge match a few weeks ago, and no issues at all.
I agree with Kayback, there's absolutely zero reason to not trust your 15-22. The Appleseed issues can happen with any rimfire weapon (and have). All of the data released by Appleseed points to a knee-jerk reaction.

Last edited by huafist; 09-17-2016 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 09-17-2016, 11:00 PM
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I did notice that a lot of folks with OOB problems were either using
Remington Thunderbolts, or Remington Golden Bullets...
both of those are well-known headache ammo...
known issues of that brand are:
1. Out of spec bullet
2. bad crimps
3. double powder charge
4. low powder charge
5. zero powder charge (squib)
6. out of spec case
7. spotty primer
8. zero primer

Quit using them for anything but single-action revolvers about a decade ago...
so when I see folks paying exorbitant prices for them since the crunch
started, all one can do is feel sorry for those who buy 'em...
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Old 09-17-2016, 11:07 PM
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As far as run-away, that's a more serious issue that can get one
in a lot of trouble with BATF...it is possible that there was a faulty
sear responsible for it all, a bad batch, perhaps...hopefully...

S&W's current fix involves replacing the trigger, sear, and all springs
involved in Fire Control...which makes me wonder if it was just
a simple design issue...or again, maybe a mis-spec'ed run of parts...

But the amount of times it has happened with the 15-22 at events is enough
to say it's far from a knee-jerk reaction. It's a serious problem.

IF ANYONE HAS ANY DOUBTS about their rifle,
call S&W, have them send you a label, and send it in for repair.
Evidently the new parts prevent the chance of run-away from ever happening again.
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Last edited by Big Shrek; 09-17-2016 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 09-17-2016, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shrek View Post
As far as run-away, that's a more serious issue that can get one
in a lot of trouble with BATF...it is possible that there was a faulty
sear responsible for it all, a bad batch, perhaps...hopefully...

S&W's current fix involves replacing the trigger, sear, and all springs
involved in Fire Control...which makes me wonder if it was just
a simple design issue...or again, maybe a mis-spec'ed run of parts...

But the amount of times it has happened with the 15-22 at events is enough
to say it's far from a knee-jerk reaction. It's a serious problem.

IF ANYONE HAS ANY DOUBTS about their rifle,
call S&W, have them send you a label, and send it in for repair.
Evidently the new parts prevent the chance of run-away from ever happening again.
Maybe I missed something, but the only instance of a runaway gun that I saw in the Appleseed announcement was one that one of their instructors monkeyed with?
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:13 AM
Kayback Kayback is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shrek View Post
As far as run-away, that's a more serious issue that can get one
in a lot of trouble with BATF...it is possible that there was a faulty
sear responsible for it all, a bad batch, perhaps...hopefully...

S&W's current fix involves replacing the trigger, sear, and all springs
involved in Fire Control...which makes me wonder if it was just
a simple design issue...or again, maybe a mis-spec'ed run of parts...

But the amount of times it has happened with the 15-22 at events is enough
to say it's far from a knee-jerk reaction. It's a serious problem.

IF ANYONE HAS ANY DOUBTS about their rifle,
call S&W, have them send you a label, and send it in for repair.
Evidently the new parts prevent the chance of run-away from ever happening again.
How many times have run aways happened? The one instance reported at an Appleseed event had been worked on by an amateur "smith".

If you use an LM bolt in a Galil, the bolt with the rubber firing pin stop you will get run aways eventually when the rubber perished. It happens very frequently.
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Old 09-18-2016, 06:55 AM
tomcatt51 tomcatt51 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shrek View Post
But the amount of times it has happened with the 15-22 at events is enough to say it's far from a knee-jerk reaction. It's a serious problem.
Where have you seen or heard anything to justify this? I have 15-22s, shoot them in competition, follow this forum and I have not heard of or seen ANY mention of a "run-away", going full auto, except in the Appleseed statement and that (PER THEIR STATEMENT) occurred after their "instructor" worked on the rifle.

If you're aware of other instances please share them with us.
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Old 09-18-2016, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcatt51 View Post
Where have you seen or heard anything to justify this? I have 15-22s, shoot them in competition, follow this forum and I have not heard of or seen ANY mention of a "run-away", going full auto, except in the Appleseed statement and that (PER THEIR STATEMENT) occurred after their "instructor" worked on the rifle.

If you're aware of other instances please share them with us.
Tomcatt51, has a very valid point....never in all my posts and surfing of this forum have I ever come across a full auto runaway in a 15-22 with a stock or aftermarket trigger, surely if this problem had occurred more times than the instances of the 'instructor worked on rifle' then we would have read about it on here. Also the moment anyone does anything to their rifle, S&W are well within their right to deny any responsibility and said work will undoubtedly void warranty, so the Run-Away instances, regardless of what caused it, by the mere fact that the Appleseed instructor, not a S&W qualified gunsmith, worked on it...make it purely his fault. If he suspected problems it should have been sent back to S&W who as this forum has taught me, make good on repairs. Something weird is going on here...
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Old 09-18-2016, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten_Lights View Post
Hello everyone,

Just bought a new 15-22 a couple of weeks ago. I haven't even fired it yet. I bought the older model because I like the handguard with rails all around and the big sights more than the newer one.
I also bought it because of so much talk about how great this rifle is but now I read that it was banned from an event because of issues, dangerous issues.

Any recommendations, should I sell before I even give it a chance? One thing I want is something that's safe. I have a family.

They are the number one priority above anything, no matter how much I love this 15-22.
Don't worry about a thing. I'll take it off your hands for $100.00 and I'll even pay for shipping.

Last edited by Jim1392; 09-18-2016 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 09-18-2016, 08:02 AM
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I have full confidence in my 15/22.

To me the Appleseed thing sounds like a total knee jerk reaction based on anecdotal evidence and not on scientific data. Did these accidents happen? All accounts say yes. But before I would call out the gun itself, I would really have to look at everything involved. In the few cases where there was a problem, I don't see where any of the weapons and ammo used were handed over to an independent and specialized inspector to be tested.

Far too many questions arise before I could point my finger at the 15/22 itself. There obviously is that possibility. But there are so many other potential issues related to owner/operator error, maintenance, physical modifications, improper installation of aftermarket parts, etc. etc. etc, or related to the ammo itself.

Then the other thing that pops into my head is from most accounts, the M&P 15/22 is the number 1 most popular 22lr gun in this type of guns category. So chances are if it is outnumbering other brands of similar products 10 to 1 at these events the likelihood of an M&P 15/22 being involved in some sort of "incident" goes up dramatically as well.
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Old 09-18-2016, 02:22 PM
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I just looked at the Appleseed web sight and you would think that a statement like this would be very easy to find. Only place it even mentions the 15-22 is on the info portion of a shoot on the schedule page.

All the info we are reading are coming from blogs and other forums. I would like to see the actual statement from appleseed honestly and I can't find it.

Maybe someone with better search skills will have some luck.
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjt50 View Post
All the info we are reading are coming from blogs and other forums. I would like to see the actual statement from appleseed honestly and I can't find it.

Maybe someone with better search skills will have some luck.
It appears that there's a problem with the 15/22!

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Old 09-18-2016, 10:52 PM
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Thank you....
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Old 09-19-2016, 12:47 AM
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I have an older one that came with the newer trigger and it's been great. I'll probably get KNS pins as a precaution.

Until it's broke, I ain't fixin' it.
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Old 09-19-2016, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ten_Lights View Post
See, a little reassurance from all of you and now when I get home I'm going to take my 15-22 out and stare at her all over again.
Probably be more fun to take it to the range and shoot it...just sayin'...
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Old 02-23-2017, 02:12 AM
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I feel your pain, Ten Lights...I too once believed that everything posted on the interwebs must be true...now go out and shoot the darned thing like it owes you money!

Last edited by st15rexxx; 02-23-2017 at 06:53 AM.
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