I have a UTG Red Dot sight mounted on my 15-22, and I can't zero it. The group size is 3-4" at 50 yards, which is fine with me. The problem is the groups move a lot. The first group I shot was 2" low and 4" left. I adjusted 16 clicks right and 8 clicks up. The next group was in the same place. Over the next hour and 200 rounds, I was able to make the impact points move, but the groups would never stay in one place. For example, a group would be 3" left and 3" low. I would not adjust anything and the next group would be 3" right and 3" low. If I tried to adjust the next group, there was no predicting where the next group would be. However, all the center points of all the groups were within 6-8" of the aim point. I have tightened the Red Dot as tight as I can on the rail without stripping the screw. The UTG will mount on both Picatinny and Weaver rails and when mounted on the 15-22 there is "slop" in the slot before it is tightened. I am experienced shooter with iron sights and scopes, but this is my first Red Dot. This problem does not occur with the iron sights, but they are difficult for my old eyes to use.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Get a Trijicon or Aimpoint.

Thanks for your reply. Do you really think the UTG is at fault? Do they have a bad reputation, or do people think they are bad because they have a low cost? However, it is obviously one possibility. Are there any others?

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Since you mentioned that the issue doesn't happen wth irons, it must be the optic. UTG is a cheap optic but many use them on 22's. It is possible you got a lemon. I'd send it in for warranty repair if UTG offers it. By once, cry once is my opinion on optics and it has served me well. Of course, this is within reason but with the many options out that that are both low budget and durable I'd never buy or recommend UTG products (amongst others) to anyone.

Sounds like you either have a loose barrel nut or the optic is not attached rigidly enough to the firearm. You mentioned some slop before tightening... that's normal.

3" groups at 50 yards is ok if shooting off hand. If from a bench rest or bipod, that's simply unacceptable.

Tightening a (loose) barrel nut even a little bit can do wonders for accuracy. If you make or buy a barrel nut tool, clamp the barrel, not the upper/lower receiver.

I would echo what has been said above. Since iron sights are dead on while the RDS moves, I would say try contacting UTG for warranty information. This would be my first step. Second would be trying to tighten the barrel nut.

Buy cheap buy twice......but in your case it may be buy many

times

keith

If the problem does not occur with irons or scopes then i can't see the issue being with the barrel nut, which can effect accuracy if it is loose...it seems to me like the red dot is rattling around after each shot group. If it is a dud then even the little recoil of the 22 will throw it off. Send it back...either try another or get a refund and go with a slightly higher priced red dot...no need for an aimpoint or eotech unless you are fortunate enough to be able to afford one. Primary Arms or the Vortex red dots are good low to mid budget red dots.

Thanks, guys. I am going to focus on the Red Dot for now. I think, if the barrel nut was a problem, I would be getting worse group size than I am getting. At 50 yards, the dot covers 2.5 inches, so it is difficult (for me) to get any smaller groups than that. The problem is that the groups move without adjusting the Red Dot, or if I do adjust the Red Dot, the groups move unpredictably. I guess you get what you pay for, and the next thing I pay for will be a Vortex.

Try running both the windage and elevation adjusters thru their full range of travel a couple times and see if that helps. Sometimes they hang up and do what you're describing.

Another trick is to tap the sight itself with a hard object when you make an adjustment to help prevent any sticking.

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JR

This may just be the thing but make sure you first remove it from your 15-22



keith

I know it sounds ratty, but on many optics, red dot or scope, including my Leupold after an adjustment I tap (NOT POUND) the turrets with the plastic handle of a pocketknife, my comb, ammo box, whatever. If not, sometimes it can take a few shots for the adjustment to "settle". Not so much on the Leupold. Evidently a testament to quality manufacturing....JMHO

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CERAKOTE Svcs.
Class 01 FFL

Wandering groups are usually the red dot or scope .
Make sure every thing is tight and then carefully shoot , from a bench , 10 different 5 shot groups on 10 targets. Number them 1 through 10 in the order fired . With mine , you could actually see the groups wander around on the targets , not one group stayed in one place. Boxed the sight and targets up with a letter and returned to Bushnell...they fixed it , no problems after that.
Targets don't lie !
Gary

I didnt want to have to be the guy that brought it up but what MOA value is each click on your red dot.

For example my Red dot is a 1" MOA making each click exactly .5" per click at 50 yards and .25" at 25 yards. Just asking because of several reasons here.

1. 50 yards can be done easily with a red dot but your groupings will probably start to spread out at this distance.

2. if the red dot is a .25" MOA per click then each click at 50 yards is only an eighth of an inch.

I would come in a bit and start at 25 yards try the tapping trick and see what happens then move out farther. but remember whatever the MOA at 50 yards is per click cut it in half again for 25 yards so a eighth inch MOA at 50 yards becomes a 16th of an inch at 25 yards.

Hope this helps.

My Red dot Co-witnesses with my iron sites so if it moves I can tell.

I use a Burris FF3 on a 15-22 in the Burris AR Mount and I couldn't be more pleased.For the longer distances I team it up with a Burris Trippler.

The Burris FF3 does duty on a few of my S&W revolvers in the Raptor Engineering mount made by forum member revolver_ph

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

^^^ DITTO.

My setup might differ from the more common 3-MOA dot in that I use the 8-MOA dot for steel shooting. Because the F3 in the AR mount co-witnesses exactly with the OEM sights I can tell immediately if the setting is wandering. (This benefit is also pointed out by Gaschiermeyer.)

After many thousands of rounds the setting has not wandered.

I appreciate all the replies. Doing a lot of reading about red dots, I ran across information on parallax. I don't pretend to understand if fully, but, if your optic is parallax free, when you move your eye in relation to the optic, the red dot stays on the target. If your optic is not parallax free (cheap construction), when you move your eye in relation to the optic, the red dot moves. I clamped my rifle, and then looked through my optic, and moved my eye in relation to the optic and the red dot moves a lot. So, I must always insure that my eye is in exactly the same place in relation to the optic (kinda hard to do) when shooting each group. Otherwise the groups will move. If this is a wrong conclusion, please be kind. This is new to me.

Parallax is easily understood - Close one eye. Look at your scene; have objects that are closer and further away. Now, close the open eye, and open the closed one. Objects that are closer will shift more than those that are further away.

This is parallax. A device that is parallax free, as you said, will not shift based on your point of view (actually, it does shift, however, it always points to the same location, regardless of your point of view - so the line from your eyeball to the target passes through the same 'point' in the red dot reticle).

Devices which are 'parallax free after some distance' are suggesting that the shift will be noticeable in distances closer than that range, and negligible at further distances.

Depending on the range that you are shooting, and the red dot that you are using, you could be seeing a parallax effect. However, 6-8" at 50 yards (your original grouping) is still pretty large; parallax shouldn't account for that much disparity - Red dots that I am familiar with (even cheap ones) are parallax free after about 20 yards.

If, when you clamped the rifle down, and just moved your head, the red dot did not remain ON TARGET regardless of head position, then it sounds like you have a defective red dot.

You're kinda right. What you need to do is keep the dot near the center of the window. This will minimize parallax.

So, clamp down the gun with the dot on your target. Move your head so the dot moves to the edge of the window and see what the dot does on the target as you do this. Move so the dot moves around the edges of the window and see how much the dot moves on the target as you do this.

There is one distance where your red dot will be parallax free. As you move away from this distance parallax increases. Many scopes have adjustable parallax. On these you can change the distance at which the scope is parallax free.

Bottom line is: To minimize parallax keep the dot centered in the window.

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the explanations. I am going to the range and investigate further, as soon as the mud dries up.

By the way, this is a UTG red dot with a parallex setting of infinity.

My problem is parallex. I went to the range this afternoon. I put the rifle in a rest with the red dot on the target at 50 yards. When I moved my eye up and down, and back and forth, the dot moved plus or minus five inches both horizontally and vertically (10 inches total in each direction). My groups stopped moving when I really concentrated on keeping the dot in the exact center of the optic. Keeping the dot in the exact center is a lot harder than I thought it would be so I am going to purchase a Vortex red dot that is supposed to be parallex free. I should have bought a better optic to begin with. I appreciate everyone's time and advice.

This is where "cheekweld" comes in too. I have Magpul MOE stocks. In part because I like the contour of the available thick butt pad but mostly because Magpul has different height cheek risers that snap on. With a C-more Railway a 1/4" cheek riser (not scope riser) puts the dot consistently in the center of the window effortlessly.
AR-15 CTR/MOE CHEEK RISER | Brownells

I can see how that would make it better. A red dot is supposed to be for fast acquisition at fairly short range. That is hard to do if you have to spend time trying to center the dot in the optic.

Something that I have done to get used to using a red dot on my rifle is to co-witness it with the iron sights. This allows you to find the dot at the center of the glass easily, as it should align with the front and rear sight to some extent, offering a good point if reference. This will not work for every rifle sight and dot setup, as I know some do not absolute co-witness. I set mine up like this on purpose, and set my iron sights for the same shooting distance as the dot. I found that doing this when shooting at the range, or even dry fire practice at home, has improved my dot acquisition and accuracy when using the dot only.



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This is always great advice, but the OP (and others new to red dot sights) should regard this as desirable, but not absolutely necessary.

One of the many benefits of a red dot sight, especially in action shooting, is that the POA/POI will be the same whether the dot is in the center of the view field or way out on the perimeter.

I know nothing about UTG sights, but I have eight (8) red dot sights from various manufacturers, several of which are not particularly expensive. (Starting at $70ish.) All retain their horizontal POA/POI alignment no matter where the dot is on the glass. Naturally, the vertical alignment varies with distance as affected by trajectory. But this is related to ballistics and has nothing to do with optics.

Good advice about co-witnessing the sights and the optics, where possible.

I just bought a Vortex. I will let you guys know the results after I have installed it and been to the range. I will not blame the optic until I am sure it is not just me.

Final outcome. The Vortex sight made a huge difference. My groups no longer wander around. The dot does not move when I move my eye in relation to the optic. Also, as some of you suggested, I put my front sight in the raised position and used it as an aid to centering the red dot, and that greatly improved the effectiveness of the UTG sight, so that my group placement became consistent with that sight as well. Thanks to all for your time and helpful advice!

Try Green Dot, of if it's a heavy load, Blue Dot

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an actual conservative