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Old 01-30-2017, 09:39 PM
15-22 Plinker 15-22 Plinker is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Default Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?

Hello everyone,

I recently started experiencing failure to eject problems once every 25 rounds or so. My empty casings would get crimped by the bolt at the neck of the case (reverse stovepipe). My research on this forum pointed to faulty extractors. I also noticed that when pulling the charging handle, the chambered round ALWAYS stayed chambered.

I bent my extractor towards the center of the bolt, but the problem continued.

I have a 10 round magazine that I converted into a 25 round magazine when I moved into AZ from CA. I noticed that when the magazine is full with 25 rounds, the first couple rounds don't properly load/connect with the bolt!

Before the bolt connects with the round:
Shared album - Google Photos
What a good connection should look like:
Shared album - Google Photos
What happens when the 10 round magazine is loaded with 25 rounds overshoots the bolt catch:
Shared album - Google Photos

I wonder if this is a problem with the bolt, the magazine, or both?

If someone can confirm the 25 round magazines and the 10 round magazines share the same spring, then the magazine is essentially the same as a 25 rounder.

It explains why my FTEs are not connected to the bolt when I pull the charging handle.

Last edited by 15-22 Plinker; 03-11-2017 at 08:55 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-31-2017, 03:39 AM
earlthesniper earlthesniper is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Just my analysis from the pictures that you have posted.

1. Looks like the feed lip is not holding too well as the bullet if already facing too high up already. Thus when fed, it might already catch the upper portion of the chamber already.

So, maybe the magazine spring may have contributed to the disfunction ot the feedlip.

2. For ejection problem, since you are having a "reverse stovepipe" as you have mentuon, it is most likely the extractor needed to be replaced since you already have bent the ejector.

Sent from my SM-N9208 using Tapatalk

Last edited by earlthesniper; 01-31-2017 at 03:40 AM.
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Old 01-31-2017, 05:02 AM
Blackstuff Blackstuff is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Have you tried a few magazines?

Sounds like an extractor problem to me (the extractor is the hook on the bolt, the ejector is the piece attached to the barrel which can be bent).

Try removing the extractor from the bolt and make sure its not jammed, gunked up or damaged; It should look like this;



Here's a video on how to remove it;

Volquartsen M&P 15-22 Exact Edge Extractor Install - YouTube

If that doesn't work and the gun is new then i'd return it to the dealer/get them to send it to S&W.
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Old 01-31-2017, 08:43 AM
bacardigold bacardigold is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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I had a similar issue to this where the round would be pointing upwards at a greater angle usually whilst firing the gun and the bolt would hit it side on thus jamming. After some investigation I put it down to the two older mags that I had and the fact that the feed lips were worn just as earlthesniper commented. I stopped using these mags and used newer ones and the problem went away.
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Old 01-31-2017, 04:08 PM
15-22 Plinker 15-22 Plinker is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll try to get my hands on some new magazines and see how everything works out. I have owned the rifle for 10 months now and have shot about 2500 rounds thru it. I only have 3 magazines and have equally used them from when I first bought the gun.

I noticed the FTEs began after moving to Arizona and the only change I made was converting the blue follower magazines to hold 25 rounds.

My extractor looks clean. Is the extractor supposed to connect with the round while it is being pushed out of the magazine? Or is it supposed to connect after the round has been shoved in the chamber?
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Old 01-31-2017, 09:24 PM
earlthesniper earlthesniper is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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My extractor looks clean. Is the extractor supposed to connect with the round while it is being pushed out of the magazine? Or is it supposed to connect after the round has been shoved in the chamber?[/QUOTE]


Yes. It is connected once you chamber a round. It is supposed to hook up once a round is in the chamber.

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Old 01-31-2017, 11:04 PM
TX-Dennis TX-Dennis is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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I concur with those who've suggested a worn out magazine. The polymer feed lips eventually wear away causing these issues. Buy a few new magazines, and you should be fine.
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Old 02-01-2017, 04:11 AM
Blackstuff Blackstuff is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Do all three of your magazines do the same thing? If you've only put 2500rds through it, shared amongst three magazines there's no way the feed lips should be worn out! (I'm assuming you bought the gun from new of course)
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:06 AM
tomcatt51 tomcatt51 is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 15-22 Plinker View Post
Is the extractor supposed to connect with the round while it is being pushed out of the magazine? Or is it supposed to connect after the round has been shoved in the chamber?
The bolt catches the rim of the top rd in the mag which travels forward with the bolt and as the rd rises the rim slides up rim recess surfaces UNDER the extractor.

Pull the bolt and look at the bolt face. You can see how the rim recess is open at the bottom so the rim can slide up into position, sliding UNDER the extractor as it does.

From first contact the rim is in position to slide up under the extractor.
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:36 PM
Kenneth07ex Kenneth07ex is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Mags are not very expensive, so why not eliminate that possibility. Sounds like you could use a few more anyway. If the problem started with the mag alteration, then why not start with a new one (or three)?
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:47 PM
Seven High Seven High is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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A thorough cleaning and lubrication, especially the extractor, might relieve your problem.
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Old 02-02-2017, 09:51 AM
bacardigold bacardigold is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth07ex View Post
Mags are not very expensive, so why not eliminate that possibility.
Unless you live in the UK that is, where they cost around $35-$40 each
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Old 02-05-2017, 02:37 PM
15-22 Plinker 15-22 Plinker is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Hello. I picked up a new 25 round magazine this week and just shot it this morning. IT FAILED. Note that the spring was also not even loaded to 25 round tension. Must be something wrong with the extractor.

Shared album Google Photos

This is a 15-22 that is less than one year old. I will be sending it back to S&W to see if they can fix it. If it comes back with problems, I will upgrade to the Volquartsen extractor.

It is interesting that it always ends up in a "reverse" stovepipe.

Last edited by 15-22 Plinker; 03-11-2017 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 02-05-2017, 03:10 PM
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GhostMutt GhostMutt is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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You haven't twisted the barrel in the upper have you by removing your flashhidder incorrectly? or ever dropped the bolt, bending the guide rails? If not then the problem is as you suggest the ejector or extractor, either way i'd be sending it back to S&W, they'll see you right....i feel for you though
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Old 02-05-2017, 03:27 PM
15-22 Plinker 15-22 Plinker is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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I have removed the flash hider once. I doesn't look like the barrel is twisted. The extractor still lines up perfectly with the cutout.

Shared album Google Photos

Last edited by 15-22 Plinker; 03-11-2017 at 08:56 PM.
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  #16  
Old 02-06-2017, 04:55 PM
superstingray superstingray is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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You need to adjust that ejector and go ahead and get the volquartzen extractor 2 very easy and cheap upgrades!! and if you have not cleaned and lubed your rifle do that also!!

Last edited by superstingray; 02-06-2017 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 02-06-2017, 09:54 PM
racefan racefan is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Hi guys and gals long time lurker here and have got a lot of great information here for my 15-22.

My 15-22 would stovepipe every second shot and in a 6 out of 10 shots. in the first 100 rounds I had about 60 FTE's so I adjusted the ejector but made little to no difference so I purchased the volquartzen extractor and installed in 2 minutes 700 rounds later NOT 1 FTE yes I said not 1 FTE after installing this extractor. This is a must install for this firearm.

To the original poster purchase this extractor and see if it fixes the problem first before shipping back to S&W and if you do ship it back switch the extractors back out. I wonder if Smith installs this when shipped back as they seem to fix the issue but nobody can notice anything changed with the firearm when they get it back and S&W will not comment on what they did.
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:07 AM
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racefan View Post
This is a must install for this firearm.
3+ years....shoot at least once a week, put 1000's of rounds through mine....not one FTE ever!

Original factory extractor.
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:58 PM
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Plus 1 for above.

I will however most likely pick up one of the VQ extractors next time I order with RipOffells.... sorry BrownellsUK if I need to put my order over the min for free shipping.

Rob
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:08 PM
superstingray superstingray is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostMutt View Post
3+ years....shoot at least once a week, put 1000's of rounds through mine....not one FTE ever!

Original factory extractor.
GhostMutt you got a good one!!! I have about 5 to 600 rounds through my 1- 1/2 month old 15/22 sport!!! I bought three new mags for it they worked ok but not perfect but the mag that came with it would not function properly at all stove pipes and FTE's took all the great info on this site and could see ejector was not right so fixed that and just went ahead and got the Volquartzen extractor and my rifle is flawless with many types of ammo!!! so I can't say if it was ejector or extractor but one thing I do know it was frustrating to not have my new 15/22 not work right out of the box!! Anyway I absolutley love this thing and can't wait to go to range everyday to shoot it!!!
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:27 PM
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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I bought a new 15-22 at Academy the last time they had the special pricing and $50 gift card deal.With all the discounts it came to $294 + tax

I took it straight from Academt to the range without doing any thing to it.

I shot well over 700 rounds before I got a FTE.

It's now been cleaned and lubed for the 1st time and going to the range this afternoon.

Every brand and type of 22lr I tried in it functioned perfectly,plated and unplated.I have several 1400 rd buckets of Rem Golden Bullets and lots of mini mags so I will be shooting mostly those.

I have a Burris FF3 red dot plus Burris Trippler on it and at 50 yds the 15-22 wipes the 10 ring out of a B-3 target

I bought 5 new 25rd mags from gunmag warehouse before Christmas for $13 each.
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:41 PM
tomcatt51 tomcatt51 is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 15-22 Plinker View Post
I bent my extractor towards the center of the bolt, but the problem continued.
You might check that again. The "tip" of the ejector hook should almost touch (as close as you can get it without it touching) the center rib of the bolt. It should be high enough to almost touch the underside of the bolt.

The extractor isn't hard to change and the Volquartsen extractors are available. I have two of them "just in case" but am still using the originals.

Last edited by tomcatt51; 03-11-2017 at 08:43 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 02-07-2017, 10:07 PM
racefan racefan is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Glad to hear some purchased 15-22's that worked fine out of the box but there are a lot that don't. Mine was one of them no matter what ammo I tried same results I changed the extractor and now can shoot any ammo and not one FTE so that tells me my extractor was bad. Since the op has this same problem as I had and a lot of others in other forums that there 15-22 does not work correct then he needs to change the extractor.
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Old 03-11-2017, 05:00 PM
15-22 Plinker 15-22 Plinker is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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Good news. I received my 15-22 back from S&W yesterday (3/10)
Put 250 rounds through it this morning and no problems anymore =D
150 rounds CCI standard velocity. 100 winchester super-x.

In their invoice, they noted that the only change they made was replace the ejector.

Here is a pic of the NEW ejector:
Shared album - Google Photos
Here is a pic of the ejector prior to repair:
Shared album - Google Photos
The NEW is angled much higher than I would attempt on my own. The old is almost parallel to the curb

It is so high, that it is actually in contact with the bolt:
Shared album - Google Photos

They did not change the extractor.
Thanks for all your input.
Hope this helps anyone else out there with similar problems.

Last edited by 15-22 Plinker; 03-11-2017 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:38 AM
Andyk Andyk is offline
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Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong? Failure to feed / eject because mag spring too strong?  
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After around 20,000 rounds, I started getting stovepipes and ftfs. Thought it was the mags and kept tossing ones I thought were bad aside. I was down to 3 I trusted out of 12. Finally installed a VQ extractor and ran about 700 rounds today through all the "bad" mags. No issues at all. I'm going to install one in my backup even though it has less than 5000 rounds through it and not had any issues. Did have a few duds, think I'll pull the firing pin and check it out.
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