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Old 04-23-2017, 03:38 PM
natbea09 natbea09 is offline
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Default Mount or misaligned barrel?

I have a Smith and wesson m&p 15-22 with a leupold vx2 3-9 rimfire scope mounted on a burris p.e.p.r mount. My elevation and windage knobs maxed out and I'm still about 3in off both ways. This happened to me originally with a cheap bushnell scope and I thought maybe the problem was the scope. I got this leupold scope and I have the same problem. I unmounted the mount and backed it up on the rail to test it out and same issue. Is it possible this mount is too high for my 22lr? Still wouldn't explain the windage issue though. Maybe the mount is a lemon? I had also sent the gun in for warranty work for malfunctions and they did replace my barrel along with a couple other things. Could it be when they replaced the barrel they didn't align it properly? I could use some serious help figuring this out. I have the same mount for my 223 and had zero issues zeroing it. Any ideas??

Last edited by natbea09; 04-23-2017 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 04-23-2017, 04:31 PM
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Wow, 3" out!
Never heard of this issue before. I would take off the mount and scope, put the irons back on and see if the rifle shoots straight, that would tell you if there is anything amiss with the barrel. If the barrel nut is not on tight that would explain a few fliers but not a 3" discrepancy in accuracy.
Once you have worked out if your barrel is at fault or not you can go back to your mount and scope and see which of those is giving you the issue. Burris and Leupold is top quality equipment though so I would be highly surprised if they are causing your issues.

Call Colombo, you need to do some investigating.
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Old 04-23-2017, 04:51 PM
natbea09 natbea09 is offline
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Just shot with my irons and they are good to go. 👍 So since this is the 2nd scope I try this brings me to believe that the mount is the problem?
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Old 04-23-2017, 05:05 PM
sithlord sithlord is offline
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At what range are you 3" off (and in what direction)?

It's certainly possible that it's the mount; you could always put it on your .223 and find out.

The windage being off sounds odd.. Might see if anyone at your range has a bore-sight...
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Old 04-23-2017, 05:06 PM
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You are mounted on the upper and not the handguard? Even so you'd have to be gripping like the Hulk if you were to shift the POI 3 inches.

Post some pics of the mount on the rifle so we can get a better look at potential problems with the mount. Which it does seem may be the culprit.
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Old 04-23-2017, 05:13 PM
natbea09 natbea09 is offline
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Originally Posted by sithlord View Post
At what range are you 3" off (and in what direction)?

It's certainly possible that it's the mount; you could always put it on your .223 and find out.

The windage being off sounds odd.. Might see if anyone at your range has a bore-sight...
I had to get ridiculously close just to get on paper so about 10 yards. I'm 3in to the left and 3in low and my adjustments are maxed out.
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Old 04-23-2017, 05:31 PM
natbea09 natbea09 is offline
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Here are some pictures.. Pretty basic stuff.
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Mount or misaligned barrel?-20170423_181604-jpg   Mount or misaligned barrel?-20170423_181648-jpg  
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Old 04-23-2017, 06:01 PM
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I don't know if it's just my eyes or the angle of the picture but looking at pic 2 from the left side of the rifle that seems to sit fine, but looking at the right side pic 1 the mount seems to look higher. Maybe just an optical illusion or me looking for a reason but it seems that way to me.

That being said, your mount sit no higher on the rifle than mine does so the height and position of the scope is fine.
I would hazard an guess that your mount may be causing the problem??? could you put a spirit level on it and see if it levels out. To be honest i'm just clutching at straws buddy.

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Old 04-23-2017, 06:27 PM
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Found this on the forum....post number 2 suggest that you could turn the mount around and remount the scope (so the mount is backwards) and see if you are still off low on your elevation but with your windage being right instead of left then the issue is with your mount. Seeing as the OP on this thread never answered it's just another shot in the dark.

It certainly is a frustrating one.
Scope mounting problems
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Old 04-23-2017, 06:38 PM
natbea09 natbea09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostMutt View Post
I don't know if it's just my eyes or the angle of the picture but looking at pic 2 from the left side of the rifle that seems to sit fine, but looking at the right side pic 1 the mount seems to look higher. Maybe just an optical illusion or me looking for a reason but it seems that way to me.

That being said, your mount sit no higher on the rifle than mine does so the height and position of the scope is fine.
I would hazard an guess that your mount may be causing the problem??? could you put a spirit level on it and see if it levels out. To be honest i'm just clutching at straws buddy.
It's not an illusion the ring mounts do not go flush. I either have a big gap on one side or the other side. No matter how hard I try there is always a gap.
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Old 04-23-2017, 07:15 PM
Bassyaks Bassyaks is offline
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Is it possible you have a 30mm scope on 1" mounts?
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Old 04-23-2017, 07:23 PM
natbea09 natbea09 is offline
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Quote:
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Is it possible you have a 30mm scope on 1" mounts?
No. My scope is a leupold vx2 3-9 1in.
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Old 04-23-2017, 07:58 PM
LAA LAA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natbea09 View Post
It's not an illusion the ring mounts do not go flush. I either have a big gap on one side or the other side. No matter how hard I try there is always a gap.
As far as those gaps go, just loosen one side & tighten the other, until they're even on both sides. I use these same mounts. There will always be a small gap, but at even on both sides. Not saying that will eliminate the problem though.
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:05 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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There seem to be windage issues on many scope mounts allegedly intended for AR picatinny rails*. In the first photo, the objective appears to be visibly higher than the rear. If that's the actual case, there's no way you'll get that to sight in.

I installed a similar mount on a friends rifle and the windage is way off on a boresight attempt. Didn't mess with the adjustment screws, but I doubt it will sight in.

A different mounting system on another rifle needed to be flipped to get the windage correct.

You might try a set of extra high rings to see if they'll line up better. Burris signature Zee rings use offset inserts to allow you to correct for windage/elevation errors. A ring kit (around $14) gives you a maximum of 30 minutes of correction.

*Actually, the problem may be that the mount was for the Weaver bases and they didn't cut them to allow for the extra material on the top of a Picatinny rail.

Last edited by WR Moore; 04-23-2017 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:15 PM
LAA LAA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
There seem to be windage issues on many scope mounts allegedly intended for AR picatinny rails. In the first photo, the objective appears to be visibly higher than the rear. If that's the actual case, there's no way you'll get that to sight in.
I think it's an illusion. In the first pic, it looks high. In the second pic, with the rifle turned around, the front looks low, or at least level.
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:23 PM
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LOL what colour was the dress?

I'd get yourself a new mount..even a cheap set off the bay just to test the scope is not the issue. If your irons are on target it's not the barrel, if your scope works with a cheap set of rings, it's not the scope, that leaves the mount...Don't Burris have lifetime warranty? They will replace or refund or take it back where you bought it and swap it for something else.
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:32 PM
natbea09 natbea09 is offline
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It should be lifetime warranty. I'll call burris tomorrow to see if I can get an exchange or something.
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:43 PM
LAA LAA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natbea09 View Post
It should be lifetime warranty. I'll call burris tomorrow to see if I can get an exchange or something.
Lots of methods to find out if the mount is in alignment. I'd find out first, before asking for exchanges, refunds, etc. But that's me. From what I've seen in the pics, what looks obvious in the first pic, doesn't look that way in the second photo.
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:39 AM
natbea09 natbea09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAA View Post
Lots of methods to find out if the mount is in alignment. I'd find out first, before asking for exchanges, refunds, etc. But that's me. From what I've seen in the pics, what looks obvious in the first pic, doesn't look that way in the second photo.

My iron sights are good. I've tried two different scopes. Doesn't that suggest the mount? There are no alignment adjustments for the mount. I'll try to find a YouTube video to see if I can find out how to tell if my mount is aligned.
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Old 04-24-2017, 07:02 AM
MichiganScott MichiganScott is offline
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The mount looks off, both vertically and horizontally. Either it's been installed incorrectly or it's defective. Try reinstalling it in different slots before calling Burris.
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Old 04-24-2017, 07:30 AM
natbea09 natbea09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganScott View Post
The mount looks off, both vertically and horizontally. Either it's been installed incorrectly or it's defective. Try reinstalling it in different slots before calling Burris.
I did try different slots with no success. And it's installed correctly, even torqued to spec.
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Old 04-24-2017, 07:44 AM
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...center the scope adjustments...get a laser bore sight...and that will show just how far the mount is off...
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Old 04-24-2017, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natbea09 View Post
I did try different slots with no success. And it's installed correctly, even torqued to spec.
Double check your torque. You may have too much clamp up force/pressure due to the torque. On my Vortex scope, the tech recommended torque for the rings that were lower than Burris. If the mount is not defective, front and rear, left and right should have the same amount of gap. Also the bell housing where the turrets or elevation and windage adjustment is too close to the rear ring . Too much clamping force is enough to affect the internals as explain by the tech especially when the ring is too close to the bell housing.

Looking ar your pictures, you have a gap right side of the front ring and a gap on the left side of the rear ring. This maybe enough to affect your scope as the rings are placing a twisting load on the tube. Try getting the gaps even and maybe check with Leupold if they have a recommended torque.

Last edited by Newhouse; 04-24-2017 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 04-25-2017, 06:38 AM
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Applying the same amount of torque to each bolt would not fix the differing gaps on the scope mount. If one side is just snugged down all the way down (to the right torque setting or not), before adjusting the other side, then there will always be a larger gap on one side than the other.

You must adjust each bolt a little at a time moving from side to side to get the gap (and there should be one) on either side the same, however i'm extremely skeptical that this is the problem here.

For such a large problem to exist i would guess that either the mount isn't true, the picatinny rail isn't square or less likely it has been mounted incorrectly (which the pictures don't seem to indicate) or the scope is broken. My money is on the mount being out of kilter given that both windage and elevation are both cranked out.
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Old 05-05-2017, 09:09 AM
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So, after purchasing a Leupold mark 2 ims mount and getting it all setup, torqued to spec, and hitting the range. I was finally able to make sensible adjustments and get it zeroed. My Burris mount was the culprit. Thanks for all your help everyone!
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Old 05-05-2017, 01:02 PM
Bassyaks Bassyaks is offline
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You mount is FUd look in the second picture the space between the 2 tightening screws is different. Make sure that the GUIDE pin isn't on a of the lug instead of in the slot.
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Old 05-15-2017, 11:27 PM
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Is the scope mount zero MOA or something else?
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:51 PM
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For future reference for all, you should always go by the optic to mount specs from the optic manufacturer and mount to weapon specs from the mount /rings manufacturer. The specs provided by mount manufacturers for the optic to mount are generic / universal / catch-all specs. Glad to see you got it squared away.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:16 PM
Bassyaks Bassyaks is offline
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So what was the problem?
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