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Old 07-12-2017, 09:21 PM
MosbyDawg MosbyDawg is offline
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Just installed an aftermarket charging handle on my MP15-22. I have a Volquartsen extractor to install also. I have an M&P Bodyguard .380 that I sent to Galloway to have it upgraded because of the problems associated with these firearms. I shoot blackpowder competatively. There are many options available to purchase reproduction firearms that are top-notch firearms. I've always been one to refuse this option because of pricing and after purchasing having to do trigger upgrades and other things to bring the firearm up to "snuff".Brings me back to the M&P22 and the Bodyguard. I don't understand why I have to go through all this BS to make these firearms perform as they should right out of the box. Light strikes ,FTF,FTE ,etc. ... Am I wrong? I just don't believe one should have to purchase a "performance" model to get functionality. Where do you all stand?
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:38 PM
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22lr are often finicky and the bodyguard was never know for their reliability. Some function flawless while others don't function

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Old 07-12-2017, 10:10 PM
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While there are quality products in this world at bargain prices, I typically stick to the "you get what you pay for" philosophy. The lowest priced offerings from a manufacturer typically aren't of the same quality as their more expensive offerings.

You wouldn't expect to find the same kind of quality in a $13K Chevy Spark as you would in an $80K Corvette Z06, would you?
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:23 AM
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S&W could install aftermarket charging handles and Volquartsen extractors on the M&P15-22 and increase the wholesale price by $100 to cover the parts. The question becomes just how many shooters would prefer the "new ungraded" guns versus the original cheaper model and be willing to pay the difference?

I have never understood why anyone would buy a gun and then complain about the quality after the sale on an Internet forum. Obviously they have access to a computer and should have had some idea ahead of time that people feel the need to "improve" the product after the sale. You have choices.
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:47 AM
Destructo6 Destructo6 is offline
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I'm a firm believer that new guns should work flawlessly right out of the box.

I'm also a firm believer that if it doesn't, the manufacturer should fix it until it does, and pay for shipping to/fro. If they never see their screw-ups, how are they to know they are producing problems (barring QC that doesn't seem to exist)?

Add-ons like a nicer charging handle don't really figure into this. My stock charging handle, and those on work guns that have seen hundreds of different users and tens of thousands of rounds, seems to work adequately.
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Old 07-13-2017, 10:02 AM
Wee Hooker Wee Hooker is offline
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I'm not convinced anybody "needs" to do anything to get these guns to run right. My BG380 (even with the dreaded original laser) and M&P15-22 ran fine out of the box and continue to do so. Others I know who have the same firearms have had similar results. In fact, the shop I work in with has sold hundreds of bodyguards and dozens of 15-22's. None have come back for repair that I have seen. If the gun doesn't run, send it to S&W. That's what the warranty is for.

That said, I get that some folks just want to upgrade components to " make it better". That's on them and an entirely different story.
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Old 07-13-2017, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MosbyDawg View Post
Just installed an aftermarket charging handle on my MP15-22.
What specific problem was this intended to correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MosbyDawg View Post
Light strikes ,FTF,FTE ,etc. ...
How could any of those issues be caused by the stock charging handle?
What did S&W say when you sent it in for warranty service?
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:17 PM
bamashooter bamashooter is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destructo6 View Post
I'm a firm believer that new guns should work flawlessly right out of the box.

I'm also a firm believer that if it doesn't, the manufacturer should fix it until it does, and pay for shipping to/fro. If they never see their screw-ups, how are they to know they are producing problems (barring QC that doesn't seem to exist)?

Add-ons like a nicer charging handle don't really figure into this. My stock charging handle, and those on work guns that have seen hundreds of different users and tens of thousands of rounds, seems to work adequately.
I agree 100%. Whatever the price, it should work flawlessly. If not, it's on the manufacturer's dime. If you need to double the price of the item for it to function properly, then double it. Just give me the choices of what product to buy or don't manufacture the product. Real simple.
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:28 AM
ken158 ken158 is offline
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Anything that is bargain priced will not have all the bells and whistles many guys want. After buying these accessories they are now invested highly in a bargain priced gun and will never realize a return on their investment. Do your homework, decide exactly what you want and save accordingly. Kinda like customizing a car... better like what you got cause you aren't getting custom $$$ back if you sell.
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:31 AM
MosbyDawg MosbyDawg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1970 View Post
While there are quality products in this world at bargain prices, I typically stick to the "you get what you pay for" philosophy. The lowest priced offerings from a manufacturer typically aren't of the same quality as their more expensive offerings.

You wouldn't expect to find the same kind of quality in a $13K Chevy Spark as you would in an $80K Corvette Z06, would you?
No, but I would expect it to go up and down the road with little maintenance and trouble whether it cost 13K or 80k.
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:37 AM
MosbyDawg MosbyDawg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyFingers View Post
What specific problem was this intended to correct?



How could any of those issues be caused by the stock charging handle?
What did S&W say when you sent it in for warranty service?
The replacement of the charging handle was mine. Just as it was your choice to reply to this thread. And the extractor was installed after the problems I read about on this forum. I wanted to be pro-active and replace the extractor before having a problem. Same as the Galloway upgrade on the Bodyguard.
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:55 AM
MosbyDawg MosbyDawg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganScott View Post
S&W could install aftermarket charging handles and Volquartsen extractors on the M&P15-22 and increase the wholesale price by $100 to cover the parts. The question becomes just how many shooters would prefer the "new ungraded" guns versus the original cheaper model and be willing to pay the difference?

I have never understood why anyone would buy a gun and then complain about the quality after the sale on an Internet forum. Obviously they have access to a computer and should have had some idea ahead of time that people feel the need to "improve" the product after the sale. You have choices.
I purchased both firearms of my own free will.I'm not bitching. I'm bringing up things that are all over this forum and hoping that S&W is watching and will hear what seems obvious. I like both firearms. Don't get or take me wrong. I'm not asking for a major overhaul here. The extractor can be had for under $5 and the oob and fte issues go out the door. Took me 5 minutes to install. No $100 increase in the price of the firearm. But why wouldn't they do this at the factory? It's an obvious problem and an easy fix for them .That's all.
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Old 07-14-2017, 12:03 PM
MosbyDawg MosbyDawg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyFingers View Post
What specific problem was this intended to correct?



How could any of those issues be caused by the stock charging handle?
What did S&W say when you sent it in for warranty service?
Why wait six months for a $5 part when I can get it in two days a replace it in 5 minutes? Did you read the post about the wait times and even S&W not having parts until August (I think they were springs though but nonetheless)? Why would I replace a questionable extractor with another questionable extractor?
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:34 AM
Flash_80 Flash_80 is offline
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I agree this kind of thing shouldn't happen on a new gun. Moreover, once in a blue moon, ok, but enough that it becomes a known issue is another thing. I don't have a 15-22, my cousin just bought one though, and thats why I started coming into this part of the forum. Research. Didn't take me long or much reading to see all this either.

The first day he got it, he took it home and shot the thing. Next day he brought it to the house. Said he was getting a lot of jams. Said he found this part when he pulled the mag out. It was the plunger. Spring and extractor flew out of it the first day and he never noticed (no clue how the plunger stuck around long enough to be found). I ordered a VQ extractor and an A22 spring off Ebay for him instead of sending the thing back to Smith for god knows how long. Runs perfect now, but come on, one day? Glad the forum was here for us to get the tip on the A22 spring matching up though. 15-22 springs are evidently like hen's teeth.
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Old 07-15-2017, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destructo6 View Post
I'm a firm believer that new guns should work flawlessly right out of the box.
.
.

.
I would agree with your statement provided that the user is operating the firearm correctly.

I have seen huge numbers of people have issues with firearms that are purely operator. The past few years have seen large numbers of people buy firearms for the first time.

Many get no training on how to shoot, what they should buy, etc. The see a few posts and make modifications to their new firearm. When something goes wrong, it's always the fault of the firearm. That just ain't true.
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Old 07-15-2017, 04:22 PM
MichiganScott MichiganScott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destructo6 View Post
I'm a firm believer that new guns should work flawlessly right out of the box.
Agreed, assuming the owner cleans and lubes the gun in accordance to the manufacturer's instructions. Way too many people figure that the thick waxy coating is lube.

Then there are the guns that come from the manufacturer dry (except for the metal chips left over from manufacture) and are shot that way.
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Old 07-15-2017, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MichiganScott View Post
Agreed, assuming the owner cleans and lubes the gun in accordance to the manufacturer's instructions. Way too many people figure that the thick waxy coating is lube.

Then there are the guns that come from the manufacturer dry (except for the metal chips left over from manufacture) and are shot that way.
Cleaning and lubing is only part of the correct operation of a firearm.


For instance, in the case of a pistol (and even an AR) they slam the magazine into place, the slide/bolt moves forward and the firearm is "defective".

Or they limp wrist a pistol to the point where the slide short cycles and a empty casing jams..... Again its a defective firearm.

Or, they ignore the aiming sight picture, can't hit anything and guess whose fault it is.... yup, the manufacturer.

Even a hammer won't do its job if operated incorrectly.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MosbyDawg View Post
The replacement of the charging handle was mine...And the extractor was installed after the problems I read about on this forum. I wanted to be pro-active and replace the extractor before having a problem
So, to clarify, you did experience actual malfunctions that were corrected by these replacement parts?

Or you installed aftermarket parts in a functioning firearm to prevent possible future malfunctions?

Keep in mind that people are much more likely to post a complaint than a compliment. Internet forums tend to amplify perceived problems far beyond their actual rate of occurrence. I have over 17,000 rounds through my 15-22 with the stock extractor and charging handle without a single extraction problem.

I have had issues with ejection that were caused by a loose ejector that multiple trips to S&W were unable to correct. I purchased the tools to correct this issue myself and have not had it recur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MosbyDawg View Post
Why wait six months for a $5 part when I can get it in two days a replace it in 5 minutes? Did you read the post about the wait times and even S&W not having parts until August (I think they were springs though but nonetheless)? Why would I replace a questionable extractor with another questionable extractor?
If you weren't having malfunctions that could definitely be attributed to the factory extractor, then it wasn't a questionable component. If you just wanted to install aftermarket parts for peace of mind, that's certainly your choice, but it's disingenuous to make a blanket statement that all 15-22 factory extractors are flawed.
Again, your original and followup statements are unclear on whether you actually experienced malfunctions.

Last edited by CrazyFingers; 07-17-2017 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:56 PM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Hooker View Post
I'm not convinced anybody "needs" to do anything to get these guns to run right. My BG380 (even with the dreaded original laser) and M&P15-22 ran fine out of the box and continue to do so. Others I know who have the same firearms have had similar results. In fact, the shop I work in with has sold hundreds of bodyguards and dozens of 15-22's. None have come back for repair that I have seen. If the gun doesn't run, send it to S&W. That's what the warranty is for.

That said, I get that some folks just want to upgrade components to " make it better". That's on them and an entirely different story.
Mine too!!!!......if you want to add "toys".......Go for it!
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:44 PM
Flash_80 Flash_80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_80 View Post
I agree this kind of thing shouldn't happen on a new gun. Moreover, once in a blue moon, ok, but enough that it becomes a known issue is another thing. I don't have a 15-22, my cousin just bought one though, and thats why I started coming into this part of the forum. Research. Didn't take me long or much reading to see all this either.

The first day he got it, he took it home and shot the thing. Next day he brought it to the house. Said he was getting a lot of jams. Said he found this part when he pulled the mag out. It was the plunger. Spring and extractor flew out of it the first day and he never noticed (no clue how the plunger stuck around long enough to be found). I ordered a VQ extractor and an A22 spring off Ebay for him instead of sending the thing back to Smith for god knows how long. Runs perfect now, but come on, one day? Glad the forum was here for us to get the tip on the A22 spring matching up though. 15-22 springs are evidently like hen's teeth.
I said "Runs Perfect". I may have jumped the gun. It extracts perfect. It gets light strikes ever 1 or 2 rounds. Saw a thread on firing pins, and his is way back up in that hole. About to check that route now, as maybe its too short.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:36 PM
nachogrande nachogrande is offline
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Default THERE YOU GO.

the extractor was installed after the problems I read about on this forum. I wanted to be pro-active.

Everything on the net is true dontcha know. Fixing what aint broke? In search of a problem that may not exist? Letting the net spend your $ for you. Live and learn, lessons get more expensive with age. Let someone else put double what the gun cost into it (if you want it all tricked out), then buy it used for less than the original gun cost new??? The only issues I've had with my stock 15-22 were when I let the bolt get crudded up & that was only when trying to eject non fired rounds. The blowback design should eject fired rounds. Just cleaning the bore & receiver won't cut it forever. Take the bolt apart (EASY) clean/lube, NOT OVER LUBE, & it should work fine.

Last edited by nachogrande; 07-17-2017 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 07-18-2017, 12:00 AM
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Hornady One Shot dry lube is truly your friend!
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Old 07-18-2017, 08:23 AM
tomcatt51 tomcatt51 is offline
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Hornady One Shot dry lube is truly your friend!
NO lube on the bolt and rails has been working fine for me. I'm also still running the original extractors. It's my fourth year shooting NSSF Rimfire Challenge with my 15-22s with no problems except for a couple of broken firing pins.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:58 PM
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I have to say I'm with others on this one. Every one is different and I know how I want a gun to feel ( for me).. I like a heavy gun, with a light trigger..so I made my 15-22 the way I like it..some people like a certain charging handle, or a grip..what you like i may find extremely uncomfortable..I would like to see a lower price and just upgrade to what I know and like..when I have the extra cash to dispose of..
Just my thoughts and to each there own....
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:15 PM
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I would probably never install aftermarket parts on a firearm until I had some rounds down range to check for accuracy and reliability.

Am I correct in understanding that the OP installed new parts on the 15-22 and send the .380 in for upgrades without having fired either one, just on the basis of internet rumors/postings? Seems weird to me, but everyone beats their own dog in their own way.
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Old 08-07-2017, 12:37 AM
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I just bought a 15 22, it's going to be weeks before I can pick it up. CA laws...... but before I receive it I have purchased a rubber stock pad. Anti walk pins, and extra mags. Lots of Internet research says I might need more but I'm not doing anything until I put a few hundred rounds through.

Did the same with my 10/22. Can't wait to pick up the new rifle.

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Old 08-07-2017, 12:48 AM
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I would probably never install aftermarket parts on a firearm until I had some rounds down range to check for accuracy and reliability.

Am I correct in understanding that the OP installed new parts on the 15-22 and send the .380 in for upgrades without having fired either one, just on the basis of internet rumors/postings? Seems weird to me, but everyone beats their own dog in their own way.
Depends. There are plenty of other users who have uses their own time and dimes to discover, identify and find solutions for problems, why should I waste my time and money replicating the findings of many others?

If there is an obvious problem (like the plastic sights Glocks generally ship with) replacing them out the box is an obvious action. The extractor on tbe 15-22 has given enough issues with other users that you won't lose anything by simply replacing it out of hand.

I'll agree mine only needed replacing after a couple thousand rounds but it did need replacing. Why not just do it and not worry about it?
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