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Old 02-19-2018, 09:21 PM
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Question 15/22 compared to 10/20?

I am seriously considering a M&P®15-22 SPORT™ M-LOK™ SKU 10208 for rimfire events. Some folks have suggested I might do better with a Ruger 10/22 Tactical ATI AR-22 Model 11198.

I did my first rimfire event Saturday using a borrowed 10/22 carbine with a TrueGlo RDS. First time at such an event and first time with a 10/20. He had a bolt release and extended mag release on it. It was light, easy to use, hit the metal plates as required. All in all, a hoot. I don’t know if he had a trigger mod; it felt comfortable though. It was obvious to me the bolt release and mag extension were very “necessary” for that type event.

The two things that were distracting for me were the mags and last round fired action. I quickly learned that I needed to pre-count the rds so I knew I had 10rds in the mag. No problem, have to do that with my pill holder. The last round fired bolt action continued to distract. On my Mk III 22/45 the action was open after the last round and all I had to do was drop the mag and show the timer it was cleared. On the 10/22 I had to remember to pull the charger and then drop the mag. No big deal if you are use to it, but everything I have used before stayed open.

As far as I know, only one mod is available for the 10/22 to provide the auto stay open after last round feature but I have not read a lot of discussion about it?

I have read the 15/22 does remain open after last round. I have never used a 15/22. I have read that a trigger change will be probably be necesssary.

So, would those of you that have used both rifles please share your insights and advice with me.

Thanks,

Mike
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:33 PM
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I have not participated in a competition but I have spent many hours shooting both rifles.

My vote would be for the 15-22, but I suggest you find a range near you that has them available for rent. The only way you will know what is right for you is to shoot them both.

The 15-22 does hold the bolt open on the last round and if you do go with it the trigger is easy to replace. There are countless threads on this forum discussing different triggers and their pros and cons.

Good luck and good shooting.
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:51 PM
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Not sure why age muddles my ability to make a decision .... I am going to get the 15-22. If it does not meet my needs/expectation I can sell it and do something else. Of course, I hope I don’t get in trouble for owning an attack weapon? Thank you for your input.
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Old 02-20-2018, 10:43 PM
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Default Ruger 10-22 vs Smith & Wesson model 15

I have both and the Smith is much more reliable than the Ruger. Very few problems with the S & W. Its really fun to shoot.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:26 PM
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got a question for ya, Dogfish: you posted "Of course, I hope I don’t get in trouble for owning an attack weapon?"...what does this even mean? truth be told, EVERY firearm can be construed/used as an "attack" weapon, correct?
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by st15rexxx View Post
got a question for ya, Dogfish: you posted "Of course, I hope I don’t get in trouble for owning an attack weapon?"...what does this even mean? truth be told, EVERY firearm can be construed/used as an "attack" weapon, correct?
Just being facetious ; frustrated with the distortions seen in the media. My apologies, should not of gotten political.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:33 PM
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I have a 10-22 and had the Colt version of the 15-22. I ended up with an AR and CMMG conversion that runs perfectly. I sold the Colt and gave my wife the 10-22. It’s the bomb!
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:58 PM
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I have a 10-22 and had the Colt version of the 15-22. I ended up with an AR and CMMG conversion that runs perfectly. I sold the Colt and gave my wife the 10-22. It’s the bomb!
There is no Colt version of the 15-22. Not even a close comparison. The Colt is a completely different rifle than the 15-22. Only thing in common is they both look like AR-15s. The M&P 15-22 is built from the ground up to mimic the control and function of an AR and the Colt just looks like one.
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Dogfish View Post
Just being facetious ; frustrated with the distortions seen in the media. My apologies, should not of gotten political.
and I apologize to you, Dogfish, for being so quick to assume in the negative; I too am frustrated with the media's distortions/fabrications...peace
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Old 02-21-2018, 04:53 AM
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and I apologize to you, Dogfish, for being so quick to assume in the negative; I too am frustrated with the media's distortions/fabrications...peace
Aren't we all; this **** is really getting outta hand!!
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Old 02-21-2018, 05:25 AM
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STEEL WAITING for my attack weapons to escape and go on a rampage....to be honest getting bored of waiting on an inanimate object to get up by itself, load itself and...well you know the rest. When are the bleeding hearts going to get at the 'Attack car' and for all those dying from obesity related deaths...when are we going to do something about the 'Assault spoon and the Fork of destruction' FFS

Get the 15-22
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:56 AM
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I was watching Fox news yesterday and even they get it wrong. The story line was people buying assault rifles and they zoomed in on one of the very evil ones-a M&P 15-22 with .22lr stamped into the receiver! I expect this from CNN but not Fox. It drives me nuts when the news media and politicians don't know a technical subject and speak inaccurately on a very emotional subject that demands precise discussion. Apologies to the OP and moderator for going down a rabbit hole but I feel much better now :-)
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:49 AM
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Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your decision to purchase the 15-22. You will absolutely enjoy both its utility and simplicity. A more reliable and fun .22lr is hard to find.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:11 AM
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I have both..... the 10/22 can be "highly" modified..... like LOL;every part but the receiver with the serial #...... to get a highly accurate target rifle. Course you've got the base gun price + $500-1000 invested.

S&W 15/22 is a great gun...... can change the trigger group..... flashhider stock and grip....... not a target rifle IMHO..... but mine is GTG 1-2" groups offhand out at 50yds........ 4" clays all day .... and half-clays 80-90%
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:16 AM
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Default FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN/EXP'D

"IF" totally stock, the S&W all the way. If putting a bunch of $ into a custom rifle, the Ruger. I bought a 15-22 and a Ruger 10-22 takedown & ran them head to head @ steel challenge. Out of the box the S&W's adjustable stock fit much better and had a better trigger/controls/ergonomics. The finish on the Ruger simply stinks, put a scope on it & expect the finish to come off with the scope if you remove it. An older version 10-22 with lot's of modifications seem to be much more common & rule with both accuracy & speed however. 5 plates hit in under 2 seconds, by our resident 22 semi rifle leader. NOT TO SAY a customized 15-22 couldn't be done, or shoot as well, I just haven't seen them. The "MAJORITY" of people with the $ to drop on all these mods seem to overwhelmingly pick Rugers. The accuracy (NOT REALLY NEEDED FOR STEEL CHALLENGE, IMO) of a highly customized Ruger can't be denied. As I recall the bolt DID stay open after the last shot. I ended up keeping the S&W.

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Old 02-21-2018, 10:29 AM
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I own both. My vote would be for the 10/22. The 15-22 pretty much is what it is due to it's design/manufacture. The 10-22 is a "mister potato head" rifle that allows you to change/upgrade near ANYTHING that doesn't suit you. ( Barrels, stocks,triggers, bolts,mags,----) It has a huge cult like following and near unlimited aftermarket support.
The distractions you mention are easily curable with minor do it yourself / drop in mods . ( btw, Bolts do hold open on the last shot with proper ammo. )Triggers can be brought down to 2.5# the same way (and at little cost.)
My advice would be to buy a basic/mid level 10-22 and spend the $100+ savings to mod it the way you want.
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Old 02-21-2018, 02:29 PM
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Default FOR SURE.

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Originally Posted by Wee Hooker View Post
I own both. My vote would be for the 10/22. The 15-22 pretty much is what it is due to it's design/manufacture. The 10-22 is a "mister potato head" rifle that allows you to change/upgrade near ANYTHING that doesn't suit you. ( Barrels, stocks,triggers, bolts,mags,----) It has a huge cult like following and near unlimited aftermarket support.
The distractions you mention are easily curable with minor do it yourself / drop in mods . ( btw, Bolts do hold open on the last shot with proper ammo. )Triggers can be brought down to 2.5# the same way (and at little cost.)
My advice would be to buy a basic/mid level 10-22 and spend the $100+ savings to mod it the way you want.
I just wonder how many people that have 500-1,000$ into their Rugers said the same thing. Like eating 1 potato chip. While I'm at it, may as well... in for a nickel... When all is said/done/payed for, they are pretty remarkable, can't deny that.

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Old 02-21-2018, 02:56 PM
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I just wonder how many people that have 500-1,000$ into their Rugers said the same thing. Like eating 1 potato chip. While I'm at it, may as well... in for a nickel... When all is said/done/payed for, they are pretty remarkable, can't deny that.
Admittedly, been there, done that. .. a couple of times. (I'm a slow learner.)
While I am not (any longer) an advocate of making a $200 10/22 into a $800 project, I do appreciate that those with self control , can make a few inexpensive changes to greatly improve the rifle for their intended use.

FWIW, I still keep 3, 10/22's. All have had volquartzen hammers ($25) added for a crisp light trigger. All have self modified bolt hold open levers (free) to allow slingshotting the bolt closed. Two have had sights updated to meet their purpose (and my aging eyes.( $40-80). Otherwise, They are near stock. Guess this old dog can still have self control after all?
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Old 02-21-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by nachogrande View Post
I just wonder how many people that have 500-1,000$ into their Rugers said the same thing. Like eating 1 potato chip. While I'm at it, may as well... in for a nickel... When all is said/done/payed for, they are pretty remarkable, can't deny that.
I resemble that-$1200! But it will shoot with $1500 bolt rifles off the bench.
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Old 02-21-2018, 04:49 PM
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I resemble that-$1200! But it will shoot with $1500 bolt rifles off the bench.
I'm good to go with a 15-22 and a $400-500 CZ bolt gun .................. both .......make me


Still got $300 in my pocket towards some nice Leupold glass and a red dot!!!

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Old 02-21-2018, 05:50 PM
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I find the 15-22 to be a bit more user friendly when it comes to field stripping. Otherwise, both of mine run and shoot about the same.
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
I'm good to go with a 15-22 and a $400-500 CZ bolt gun .................. both .......make me


Still got $300 in my pocket towards some nice Leupold glass and a red dot!!!
I think the CZ is the best deal in a quality accurate .22 out of the box. I have a 453 that is excellent.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
I'm good to go with a 15-22 and a $400-500 CZ bolt gun .................. both .......make me


Still got $300 in my pocket towards some nice Leupold glass and a red dot!!!


That is where I am going. I have both 15-22 and 10/22. Leaving the 15-22 as is for a fun family plinker with the collapsible stock. Great rifle. Making minor DIY mods to 10/22 for ease if use and accuracy. Planning to get a Tikka T1X later that I will use and mod if need for better accuracy. I will replace the 10/22 boat paddle stock with a Sporter.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:45 PM
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Default Thanks All

Found everyone's comments to be very interesting and helpful. Picked up the 15-22 Sport yesterday with the Vortex Sparc II. It has been raining forever; eventually I will get to shoot it. Ordered some 10rd mags and a charger.

I may want to change out the grip to something a little more comfortable, just not sure what. I'll see after a few rounds.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:23 AM
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I have both and while I love both, the M&P 22 is more user friendly IMHO.
The Ruger shoots slightly small groups than the Smith, but not enough to matter to me.
I have had some ammo issues with my Smith, but I think it was just that, ammo. The Ruger had the same issues with the same ammo as well.
Personally, I like the M&P a little better than the 10/22 for shooting. I is accurate enough for me.
PS- my M&P 22 Compact will run the same ammo and not miss a beat.
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Old 02-23-2018, 02:30 AM
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The 10-22 will NOT hold the bolt open on the last shot regardless of what anyone says EVER. There was an aftermarket mod that allowed this, but it was only with use of a special magazine. I'll take a modified 10-22 with money thrown into it all day over a 15-22, but that is what it is. If you are going to shoot a competition that requires fast reloads, the 15-22 will be faster hands down. On top of requiring the bolt to be racked on reloads, the 10-22 also can be fiddly with magazines. Also, 10-22's can be finicky and a pain to diagnose failures. Once thats figured out, they will run like clockwork, but it can be a process. Lots of people are big on the 15-22 and I don't think I've ever seen one fail in competition aside from light strikes. Have not witnessed one stovepipe in the few competitions I've been to. The one my cousin got last June however was a solid piece of junk though. Becomes a bolt action very quickly for whatever reason. Too bad there isn't more aftermarket support for this gun.
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:35 AM
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For mini-rifle/steel plate/IPSC type shooting just get a 15-22, simple as that.
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:58 PM
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Default CST - 2ND Gen

Flash 80,

You may wish to check this out for the 10/20 bolt open mod.

2nd Generation CST Auto Bolt Stop and Accessories — Custom Shooting Technologies
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Old 02-23-2018, 02:34 PM
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I prefer the 10/22.

Most are more accurate out of the box and it is infinitely more configurable.
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Old 02-27-2018, 12:38 AM
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Thumbs up To the Range

Finally got to the range. The Vortex Sparc II was a little to the left and low. One of the members, who has a ton more knowledge/experience than I, was measuring the speed of his reloads and took the time to give me a little help. A little adjustment and groups were tight with the Red Eye. About 200 rounds and had two that did not load correctly (casings got crimped). However, the ammo was some old Winchester’s and is probably at least 10 years old.

The co-witness iron sights are not close to the red dot. Guess I need to play with them. I need a spotting scope - walked my rear off ...

All-in-all, really did like it and enjoy myself . Thanks to all for your comments.

Regards,

Mike
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Old 02-27-2018, 07:44 PM
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For mini-rifle/steel plate/IPSC type shooting just get a 15-22, simple as that.
It is a very fun rifle for the family, too. I did some more ammo testing this past weekend at 50 yds. Shooting Wolf MT in the 10/22 (stock, several years old) I got 1 1/8" - 1 1/2" groups of 10-shots. The M&P (also stock) shooting Blazers got 1 1/2" - 1 3/4" groups of 10-shots. However, one target for the M&P was shot with Aguila SV and came in 1 3/8", and that was without cleaning the barrel after shooting about 300 rds of Blazers.

Obviously, the Wolf MT is wasted on these stock rifles, but I was impressed the M&P is at least as accurate as the 10/22. I'll have to shoot more Blazers 10-shot groups through the 10/22 for comparison. In the past, shooting 5-shot groups the M&P seemed overall slightly more accurate than the 10/22 with Blazer, Aguila HV and SV, CCI SV, Federal Classic and GMM.

Both rifles had the same VX1 2-7x33 scopes.
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:08 AM
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Have to agree that anything above mini-mag caliber ammunition is wasted on most stock autoloaders. I can remember shooting Eley club extra when one of my 10-22's was stock and I could see the difference in it over other ammo, but I still wasn't going be keeping any of those targets.
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Old 04-06-2018, 05:03 AM
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I have a few 10/22 and took my new M&P Sport to the range today for the first time.

The 10/22 has an horrendous trigger out of the box. All of mine have Volquartzen match hammers along with the bolt release mod. MUCH nicer. If you really want to go all in you can buy a match sear as well or a whole drop in trigger group. How accurate do you want to spend?

The trigger on the M&P is "acceptable." I wasn't expecting a bench rest match rifle. It's wearing a super cheapo eotech knockoff and shot "OK" groups at 25 yards with Aguila HV ammo. It might be more accurate with different ammo.

The guy who decided the 10/22 didn't need a last round hold open was probably the same guy who designed that *&#^&$^ bolt release. In slow fire I can usually tell when the last round is fired. It does feel a bit different. I doubt you could feel it when running & gunning.
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:20 AM
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There's 3 or 4 10/22 including a Charger pistol and 3 15/22 (also including a pistol) floating around here along with a bunch of other rim fire samples. Both are good platforms. I've put countless rounds through both and I'd say that the 10/22 is a bit more finicky about ammo, jams, mags, etc. Both are very upgradeable and you can make just about any style you could possibly ever imagine.

I'd get 2 of each for starters, then go from there!
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishslayer View Post

The guy who decided the 10/22 didn't need a last round hold open was probably the same guy who designed that *&#^&$^ bolt release. In slow fire I can usually tell when the last round is fired. It does feel a bit different. I doubt you could feel it when running & gunning.
I'll clarify this for those that don't know it. Fishslayer is dead on. I have both rifles. The 10-22 has a notoriously BAD bolt release out of the box. It is hateful. If your going to shoot comp know that this will have to be fixed out of the box. There are solutions for it. I'm just surprised Ruger has never fixed it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. My gun is several years old.

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Old 05-17-2018, 08:18 PM
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I have both rifles also and I upgraded the Ruger 10/22 with a trigger kit. They both have the same Bushnell 1x6 scope on them. They both run flawlessly and I like them both. The S&W 15 22 functions more like an AR-15 so that is it as the edge as being better between the two.
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Old 05-18-2018, 01:06 AM
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There are solutions for it. I'm just surprised Ruger has never fixed it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. My gun is several years old.

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Nope. I have a couple of newer ones & they are the same. Even my BX Trigger group comes with the junk bolt release. Easily fixed, and the BX trigger is pretty delightful otherwise!

Back to the 15-22. The trigger on mine is acceptable and I don't plan any upgrades. I think they are available though.
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Last edited by Fishslayer; 05-18-2018 at 01:08 AM.
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