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Old 05-08-2018, 05:08 PM
Don15-22 Don15-22 is offline
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Default M&P15-22 trigger issues

I have a couple of M&P15-22s that are something like 10 years old. I had replaced the original mil-spec triggers with Geissele 3 Gun triggers, then last year switched in a Hiperfire 24c and an Elftmann trigger in the two guns. No problem. I used it for Steel Challenge and general practice.

Took them out recently and had a consistent malfunction. Specifically, the last round out of the magazine wouldn't fire. If I loaded two or more rounds in the mag, the first one went off but the last one didn't (empty mag at that point, obviously). Occasionally it might happen mid-magazine, but fairly reliably on the last round.

Took apart both bolts, and saw no issues with the firing pins. Swapped back the Geissele triggers, but no joy. Finally swapped back one of the original triggers in one gun, and it immediately began to run correctly.

What I don't understand is what could have changed over the years to cause the failures when the same configuration worked before. Obviously, I'd like to put back the better triggers so I can use them for competitions.

Any ideas?
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Old 05-08-2018, 05:44 PM
fff92y fff92y is offline
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Have you tried just loading 1 round in a mag and then cambering, does it fire then? Both ways from hold open release and full charging handle to load from bolt closed. Is the bolt forward fully forward when you have FTF?
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Old 05-08-2018, 06:15 PM
Don15-22 Don15-22 is offline
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Thanks for the response.

Yes, I've tried loading only 1 round in the magazine, and it failed. Don't remember whether it was on a closed or open bolt, as I tried it a few times.

The bolt was always closed when I had the failure to fire. Didn't see any difference in the position of the bolt between having the magazine empty and loaded.

Also, FWIW, I always saw a dent on the cartridge rim, even though it didn't fire.
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Old 05-08-2018, 11:58 PM
fff92y fff92y is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don15-22 View Post
Thanks for the response.

Yes, I've tried loading only 1 round in the magazine, and it failed. Don't remember whether it was on a closed or open bolt, as I tried it a few times.

The bolt was always closed when I had the failure to fire. Didn't see any difference in the position of the bolt between having the magazine empty and loaded.

Also, FWIW, I always saw a dent on the cartridge rim, even though it didn't fire.
If its always on the last round of a mag, I maybe barking up the wrong tree but it sounds like to me that maybe your bolt could be binding / dragging on your hold open mechanism. Try shooting till your last round is loaded but you have not tried to fire, drop the mag while checking if the bolt moves more and if it does close more and see what happens. If she fires after dropping the mag but not when its left in it sounds like the bolt hold open is causing dragging on the bolt possibly preventing the bolt going all the way forward causing the FTF. Also could explain the intermittent issue you see also. And if is it the issue as for a fix frankly not sure. Lets see what we find out first.
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Old 05-09-2018, 09:47 AM
Don15-22 Don15-22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fff92y View Post
If its always on the last round of a mag, I maybe barking up the wrong tree but it sounds like to me that maybe your bolt could be binding / dragging on your hold open mechanism. Try shooting till your last round is loaded but you have not tried to fire, drop the mag while checking if the bolt moves more and if it does close more and see what happens. If she fires after dropping the mag but not when its left in it sounds like the bolt hold open is causing dragging on the bolt possibly preventing the bolt going all the way forward causing the FTF. Also could explain the intermittent issue you see also. And if is it the issue as for a fix frankly not sure. Lets see what we find out first.
Thanks, that's a good suggestion. I'll give it a try.

I can get followers for my Black Dog ar-15 magazines that don't activate the bolt hold open. I'm curious if they make followers for S&W magazines that do the same thing. Worst case, maybe a little reconfiguring may do the trick.

Also, is it possible that this behavior has cropped up because the recoil spring has weakened over the years? Anyone know where I could get a replacement spring? I haven't been able to find anywhere that sells spare parts for the 15-22.
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Old 05-09-2018, 01:15 PM
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cjt50 cjt50 is offline
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When you had the bolts apart how did the firing pin springs look.

Only reason I ask is if they are compromised, it could be a source of light or no primer strikes. I have had firing pin springs break and usually the broken piece will get jammed into the rest of the spring. It could keep it from fully hitting the primer. Also it could kept the spring from going back to is relaxed state where the back of the pin is ready for a good wack and the front of the pin is retracted into the bolt.

I had a broken firing spring disable my S&W Victory because the hammer couldn't hit the firing pin. I could see the same thing happening with the 15-22 since they are both inertia designs.

Just some food for thought.....

BTW, only realistic source for parts is S&W. Couple places have started making extractors and extractor plungers

Last edited by cjt50; 05-09-2018 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 05-09-2018, 03:48 PM
Don15-22 Don15-22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjt50 View Post
When you had the bolts apart how did the firing pin springs look.

Only reason I ask is if they are compromised, it could be a source of light or no primer strikes. I have had firing pin springs break and usually the broken piece will get jammed into the rest of the spring. It could keep it from fully hitting the primer. Also it could kept the spring from going back to is relaxed state where the back of the pin is ready for a good wack and the front of the pin is retracted into the bolt.

I had a broken firing spring disable my S&W Victory because the hammer couldn't hit the firing pin. I could see the same thing happening with the 15-22 since they are both inertia designs.

Just some food for thought.....

BTW, only realistic source for parts is S&W. Couple places have started making extractors and extractor plungers
I saw no evidence of either firing pin spring being defective. It's possible that they've both weakened over the years, but they're both intact. I also checked whether the firing pins protruded far enough from the bolt faces by manually pushing the firing pins by hand. Didn't see an issue there.

I'm leaning to the possibility of weakened recoil springs, and will try to test them out fairly soon.
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:31 PM
Don15-22 Don15-22 is offline
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Update:
Contacted S&W customer service, and they're sending me new recoil springs. I'll report back after they come in and I have a chance to test them out.

Thanks for your suggestions - weak recoil springs seemed like the most likely culprit.
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:37 PM
Don15-22 Don15-22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don15-22 View Post
Update:
Contacted S&W customer service, and they're sending me new recoil springs. I'll report back after they come in and I have a chance to test them out.

Thanks for your suggestions - weak recoil springs seemed like the most likely culprit.
Fixed.

Installed the new recoil springs, and put the original triggers back that had been malfunctioning before. Could no longer duplicate the problem.

Thanks for the suggestions about the recoil spring being the problem.
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