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  #1  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:01 PM
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The hammer pin on my 15-22 began walking out of the right side of the lower yesterday at the range. I pushed it back in and it did it again after about 50 rounds. The pin has never been removed. During cleaning, I removed the pin and inspected the J spring within the hammer. It appears that it is broken off. I contacted S&W online yesterday afternoon and I got an email this morning with an order number for a replacement hammer at no charge. I am pleased with the prompt response.
I have seen other threads discussing the same issue. Are they using really cheap parts or is this just the luck of the draw for some of us?
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Old 11-21-2019, 12:10 PM
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Excuse my ignorance because I've barely handled the 15-22 I just bought, but is this the same as the trigger pin walk issue?
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Old 11-21-2019, 01:02 PM
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Who ever is staking the J-pin in place is using too much force. It weakens the pin and the 1st time you punch the hammer pin thru it snaps.

Something that has plagued the 15-22 on and off ever since the switch to the MIM FGC (fire control group)
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Old 11-21-2019, 07:57 PM
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I had not punched the pin through. It has had less than 500 rounds through it and I have cleaned the trigger group with compressed air and Quick Scrub III, followed by a small drop of oil at pivot points. There should have been no reason for any significant force to cause it to snap.
I remember finding what I though was a piece of a staple on the floor near where I clean my guns and I was glad I didn't step on it with a bare foot. It was probably the bottom half of the J spring.
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Old 11-22-2019, 01:28 AM
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There is an aftermarket fix for walking pins, but if the spring is broken, you’d still need to replace the spring.

CMC Smith & Wesson M&P Anti-Walk Pin Kit 15-22 22LR
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Old 11-22-2019, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGBellCSI View Post
I had not punched the pin through.............edit for brevity...............
What I meant to say was when the hammer pin is installed at the factory (1st time punched) the J-pin fails. Then over time the hammer pin will walk out.

Your only option is to replace hammer with a good J-pin. Since you have one on the way from S&W, your good to go when it arrives.

Sorry for confusion
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Old 12-11-2019, 06:16 PM
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The good news is I received the replacement hammer today. The bad news it does NOT have a J spring installed, so it is useless. I called S&W and they said that the hammer they have available does not include the J spring and they don't have the spring available separately. She said that the hammer and spring should be a single unit but couldn't explain why they don't have that unit. They want me to send the gun in for repair. I asked them how they are going to repair it if they don't have a hammer that includes the spring. She had no real answer. I really don't want to send the gun in for a part that I can easily replace. I am going to try to find a hammer either locally or online. I will send the gun in if I can't find a hammer that includes the spring for a reasonable price. There is a gun show this weekend. Maybe somebody there will have one.

Last edited by RGBellCSI; 12-11-2019 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 12-11-2019, 07:55 PM
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Is the only purpose of the J spring to retain a pin? If so, I'd recommend getting anti-walk pins, which are retained by screws on the ends and should eliminate the need for the spring.
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Old 12-12-2019, 08:20 PM
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I ordered a new hammer with J spring from Brownell's. It should be here next week. I should send an invoice to S&W. There is a gun show in town this weekend. I may buy and extra hammer if somebody has one.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:44 PM
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Get some anti-walk/rotating pins and your problem is solved....forever.

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Old 12-17-2019, 12:39 PM
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I replaced the hammer with a standard AR hammer that I got at the gun show. I am now having too many light strikes. I had six light strikes out of about 125 rounds. This occurred with 3 magazines. Before the hammer change, I had very infrequent light strikes. I can see a very small dent in the rim of the failed rounds. The failed rounds did fire after being reloaded into a magazine. I removed the hammer to inspect all of the parts and reinstalled it. One thing I noticed is that if I push the hammer back until it clicks and then push it a little more, it will bind momentarily and then move forward and stop. Is this normal? Does the bolt only push the hammer back far enough for it to engage or could it be pushing it back a little more and be causing it to drag and produce the occasional light strikes?
I also removed and cleaned the firing pin. I had not removed it before since the gun only has around 500 rounds through it. The gun has been cleaned after every shooting session using a brass brush, followed by 3 passes with a bore snake.
I will be going back to the range for further testing tomorrow.
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Old 12-17-2019, 08:51 PM
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I did further testing today and it still had 5 light strikes out of 50 rounds. The gunsmith at the range offered to help me troubleshoot. He replaced the hammer spring and I saw a little improvement but it still failed. He then replaced the hammer and it failed for the first two rounds. We called it a day and put my parts back in the gun. I sent it back to S&W this afternoon. About an hour later, I got an email from S&W saying that they were sending a hammer that included the J spring. Too late! I doubt that it would fix it, unless there really is a special hammer for the 15-22.
I suspect that it will be quite a while until I get the gun back because of the holidays.

Last edited by RGBellCSI; 12-24-2019 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 12-28-2019, 01:31 PM
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I received a second hammer from S&W that DOES NOT included the J spring! This was in response to an email that I sent when I received the first useless hammer and was shipped after I sent the gun back to them for repair. Are they now farming their customer service out to BFE?
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:29 AM
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If your getting light primer strikes that sounds more like the buffer spring needs to be bumped up to the next level. Pull your buffer, look at the back of it. If there is no number, you need a #1, if it has a number 1, you need a #2. Get the anti-walk kit as mentioned above.
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Old 12-30-2019, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
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If your getting light primer strikes that sounds more like the buffer spring needs to be bumped up to the next level. Pull your buffer, look at the back of it. If there is no number, you need a #1, if it has a number 1, you need a #2. Get the anti-walk kit as mentioned above.
It is a 15-22 rimfire. There is no buffer spring.
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Old 12-30-2019, 07:16 PM
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If your getting light primer strikes that sounds more like the buffer spring needs to be bumped up to the next level. Pull your buffer, look at the back of it. If there is no number, you need a #1, if it has a number 1, you need a #2. Get the anti-walk kit as mentioned above.
I don't believe the 15-22 has a buffer/buffer spring.
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Old 12-31-2019, 10:09 AM
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I don't believe the 15-22 has a buffer/buffer spring.
Didn't know, I only have real AR's, but that's usually the first thing to suspect.
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:55 PM
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I got a notice that the gun will be shipped on 1/13/2020 with an expected delivery date of 1/20/2020. I am curious about what they did. When I sent another gun to them for repair, (a 380 EZ with the dreaded last round stovepipe issue) the repair invoice was extremely vague and the testing that they did was insufficient to capture if the problem was actually resolved (it wasn't).
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:28 AM
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After getting my 15-22 back from S&W it works better than it did when I bought it, hopefully yours will be the same.
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Old 01-17-2020, 07:33 PM
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I got the 15-22 back today. The work order says "Replaced hammer". I had two failure to fire out of 150 rounds. I looked at the rim of each of those cartridges and there was a very small mark. I was trying to pay close attention with each shot to see if I could identify anything unusual. With these two shots, the trigger was dead. It appeared that the previous rounds were ejected, the next rounds were chambered, but the hammer was not locked back. The bolt appeared to be fully forward and the failed rounds were ejected properly when I pulled the charging handle back. I put the failed rounds back into a magazine and they fired.

Is is possible for the bolt to cycle far enough to eject a spent casing, load the next round, but not cock the hammer? What are your thoughts?

I had to remove my iron sights and red dot prior to sending it in because I added those after I purchased the gun. I spent quite a while getting everything sighted in and in sync for co-witness. It sure is a fun gun. I hope I can resolve this failure to cock issue quickly. I will probably call S&W and discuss it.
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Old 01-18-2020, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
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Is is possible for the bolt to cycle far enough to eject a spent casing, load the next round, but not cock the hammer?
Not familiar with the 15-22, but I'd say "unlikely", to answer the
question. You could confirm by letting bolt close (at full spring-
driven velocity) on a live round, then ejecting the round and
examining for any primer indent.

Have you checked the bolt and firing pin, for accumulation of wax,
carbon--anything that would hinder the firing pin from taking the
hammer strike?

How's chamber/chamber face, for deposits that could resist
full chambering of cartridge?
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Old 01-18-2020, 01:09 AM
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The bolt and firing pin have been thoroughly cleaned. It was just worked on by S&W and they didn't say or do anything related to dirty parts. The dead trigger is my biggest concern. I am wondering if a light load could cause it to not cycle properly, causing the hammer to not engage with the sear. I have seen discussions about double firing that resulted in a recall. S&W said that my serial number was not affected. If the bolt moved back and pushed the hammer back, but did not engage the hammer with the sear and then the hammer could follow the bolt and new round forward with insufficient force to hit the firing pin and cause the next round to have a light strike and dead trigger.
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Old 01-18-2020, 01:53 AM
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If the bolt moved back and pushed the hammer back, but did not engage the hammer with the sear and then the hammer could follow the bolt and new round forward with insufficient force to hit the firing pin and cause the next round to have a light strike and dead trigger.
Does it have an inertial firing pin?
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Old 01-18-2020, 01:57 AM
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Does it have an inertial firing pin?
The firing pin has a spring.
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Old 01-18-2020, 11:48 AM
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What ammo are you using? I use nothing but CCI Mini Mag 36 gr. HP or 40 gr. solids in mine and have never had the issue you describe. Some .22 loads don't have enough velocity to provide the necessary bolt speed to the rear to reset the trigger and produce the symptoms you describe. Try some CCI ammo and let us know the results. Also make sure the bolt rails are lightly lubed with oil.
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Old 01-18-2020, 01:29 PM
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I was using CCI standard velocity, some Federal Black Box and some Golden Bullets. This gun would eat all of them prior to the J spring breaking. These two failures occurred with the Golden Bullets, which are known to be somewhat inconsistent. My Ruger 10/22 will use any ammo with very few failures. It did have Failure to Feed problems early on and they ended up replacing the receiver. It appears that the hammer that S&W installed improved the issue, but did not eliminate it. There must be something different about the 15-22 hammers when compared to mil-spec AR hammers, since I tried two different hammers and it made the problem much worse. I do plan to do more testing with some Mini-Mags next week.
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:44 PM
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Is the hammer spring installed correctly? It can be installed backwards and if it is in backwards I believe it can cause cocking problems or light strikes.

Here is a picture of a correctly installed spring on a Larue Tactical MBT hammer.
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:19 PM
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Is the hammer spring installed correctly? It can be installed backwards and if it is in backwards I believe it can cause cocking problems or light strikes.
Yes. It was installed by S&W and I verified that it was installed correctly.

I tested at what point the hammer is captured by slowly pull back on the charging handle. It engages approximately 1/4 inch from the from the end of travel. Is this consistent with other 15-22 owners?
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:08 PM
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I did a little more testing and it appears that the bolt can come far enough back to strip the next round, but possibly not far enough to engage the hammer. It is very close, but I believe it is possible for a light load to cause this failure. Hopefully, testing with 100 rounds of Mini-Mags will help in troubleshooting. If it doesn't fail with Mini-Mags I will shoot a bunch of Golden Bullets to see if I can reproduce the failure.
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:47 PM
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Today I shot 100 rounds of Mini-Mags and 100 rounds of Federal Black Box with ZERO failures! The only difference that I can identify is that I did not clean the gun prior to testing the last time. I tested it as it was after S&W repaired it. If it continues to perform as it did today, I will be a happy camper. I can certainly live with an occasional failure for a non-defensive weapon. I fine tuned my iron sights, red dot and laser sights. I am clearly more accurate with the optics than I am with the iron sights. I suspect that may be due to my inability to get a clear front sight focus, even though I just got dedicated prescription shooting glasses. Aging sucks!
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Old 01-22-2020, 04:24 PM
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I shot 75 rounds of Federal Black Box today and I had five failure to fires. It was not like the last time, where I had a dead trigger. The bolt was fully closed and the hammer was cocked. I inspected the rims and there was a prominent strike in all of them. The strike was at least as strong as with the cases that fired correctly. I reloaded one of them in a magazine and it fired. For one of the failed rounds, the previous round sounded weak. I did not notice that with the other four rounds. After shooting the Federal ammo, I shot 50 rounds of CCI standard velocity with no failures. This may be due to the Federal ammo, but why was I able to shoot 100 rounds with no problems the last time I tested? They were all from the same box.
What is your experience with non-CCI ammo? For those that have replaced the firing pin with an after market part, did you see any improvement with the cheaper ammo?
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Old 01-23-2020, 11:32 PM
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I shot 75 rounds of Federal Black Box today and I had five failure to fires. It was not like the last time, where I had a dead trigger. The bolt was fully closed and the hammer was cocked. I inspected the rims and there was a prominent strike in all of them. The strike was at least as strong as with the cases that fired correctly. I reloaded one of them in a magazine and it fired. For one of the failed rounds, the previous round sounded weak. I did not notice that with the other four rounds. After shooting the Federal ammo, I shot 50 rounds of CCI standard velocity with no failures. This may be due to the Federal ammo, but why was I able to shoot 100 rounds with no problems the last time I tested? They were all from the same box.
What is your experience with non-CCI ammo? For those that have replaced the firing pin with an after market part, did you see any improvement with the cheaper ammo?
I must lead a sheltered life, as I haven't ever seen any Federal Black Box 22 ammo. The only Black box that I had been aware of was Winchester, and several of us that tried it had nothing but problems, too much wax, FTF, FTE. Most of the Federal I have seen was the blue boxes, which work great for me, and the Walmart Red boxes along with the white box semi-auto 22lr, which worked in some guns and not in some of my other ones. But almost everything I have tried in my 15-22 has worked as expected.
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:46 AM
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Federal Black Pack: Cabela's Online Store - Quality Hunting, Fishing, Camping and Outdoor Gear
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Old 01-24-2020, 12:34 PM
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Stick with CCI, the best .22RF primers going short of Eley.
I can't remember the last primer failure I've had in the 15-22 with CCI.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:11 PM
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My 22s have liked Remington Golden Bullet best and I don't remember every having a fail to fire with them.
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:49 PM
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I shot 100 rounds of the Federal Black Pack ammo with my Ruger 10/22 and 40 rounds with my Ruger SR22 today. With the 10/22, I had 3 failures to fire, 2 failure to feeds, with bent/grooved casings, and one failure to eject, with the spent casing jammed in the closed bolt. I had two failures to fire with the SR22. I reloaded the fail to fire rounds and 2 of them did not fire on the second attempt. There were two clear marks on the rims that were consistent with the marks on the successfully fired spent casings from these guns.
With my 15/22 and the two Ruger firearms, it is clear that the Federal Black Pack ammo sucks big time. I will just have to accept the high failure rate, burn up the rest of the box and stick with CCI ammo. I have had a fairly high failure rate with Remington Golden Bullets as well. Once again, you get what you pay for!
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Old 01-27-2020, 09:01 PM
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I don't know what to tell you. My M&P 15-22, Ruger 10-22 (modified), and Browning Buckmark 5.5 Field will shoot all of the ammo pictured below (as well as other ammo) with almost no issues at all. Including sub-sonic & standard velocity. HP, SP, 36gr, 40gr, it doesn't matter. Of course, there will be a bad round or two but those are few and far between, and I just consider it's just those particular rounds that were bad. Especially in semi-auto rimfires, keep the chamber clean, the action clean and PROPERLY lubed. Assuming that all of the parts are in working order, you really shouldn't be experiencing an unacceptable amount of malfunctions of any kind. Good luck, hope you get it worked out.



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Old 01-27-2020, 11:24 PM
Meangene Meangene is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: modesto ca. USA
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Lately my favorite ammo has been Agela, it's lower cost makes it very affordable and if functions near perfect in my 15-22.
I theorize that these rifles are all a little different, like identical cars, both have there own quirks, one will work a little better than the other. One likes this, but the other doesn't, one may have displayed no issues at all, but the other is a pain in the a$$.
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