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Old 12-13-2009, 02:02 PM
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Default How adjust sites on M&P

My M&P .40 groups well but hits low and to the left, with different ammo too.
How do I adjust the sites?
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:06 PM
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Or it might be this
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:21 PM
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What OKF said (as usual).
Besides, the only way there would be to adjust POI up and down (elevation) on a gun with fixed sights, would be to mill them down, or replace them with shorter one's. I'd tend towards wanting to try using sand bags off of the bench with 3 shooters at a specific distance, all firing the same ammo, at the same size target. Only if all 3 shooters group in the same spot on their target's, would I condemn the weapons sights. YMMV?
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:32 PM
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Ya'll seem to be quick to condemn someones shooting style.
So I reckon ya'll adjust 'yourselves' to the gun, instead of the sights to the point of impact?
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by guntherapist View Post
Ya'll seem to be quick to condemn someones shooting style.
So I reckon ya'll adjust 'yourselves' to the gun, instead of the sights to the point of impact?
Not enough information provided to give a definitive answer.
The logical progression for this type of problem is
!. Determine if the gun is the problem. With the M&Ps I've shot there has not been a problem finding ammunition to match sight elevation. Windage is easily adjusted by drifting the sights. The easiest way to check sights is have a highly qualified person or 2 to shoot it.
2. In my beginning pistol classes, I frequently find people unaccustomed to the safe-action trigger pulls shooting low and left. In some cases, I have to take the pistol and shoot a group with it to get them to start listening about proper grip and trigger control.

Had a student last month shootin a foot low at 5 yards with a Glock 9mm. Pure trigger control problem. I had the student hold the gun and align the sights while I activated the trigger and it hit dead center. The light came on!
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Old 12-13-2009, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guntherapist View Post
Ya'll seem to be quick to condemn someones shooting style.
So I reckon ya'll adjust 'yourselves' to the gun, instead of the sights to the point of impact?
The folks are not condemning, they are attempting to help. I guess you think it is better to adjust the gun to your shooting style, rather than put the gun on a pistol rest and see for sure where POI really is. We should put up a sticky for properly adjusting a gun site off a bag or rest. It appears many people think you simply raise the gun, fire, then raise the sight up and right.....
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Old 12-13-2009, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guntherapist View Post
My M&P .40 groups well but hits low and to the left, with different ammo too.
How do I adjust the sites?
Windage is adjusted by moving the rear sight in the direction you wish the group to move. Thus, in your case, move rear sight to the right.

Elevation is adjusted by getting a different height front sight from S&W. You will need a shorter front sight.

Since the sights are fixed, and can only be adjusted as indicated, you should figure out what will be your carry load and sight in for that. You will just not be able to adjust all the time for different loads.

The sights are fit extremely tight at the factory. Moving them is a source of endless frustration for many people.

Last edited by shawn mccarver; 12-13-2009 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 12-13-2009, 08:27 PM
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The sights are fit extremely tight at the factory. Moving them is a source of endless frustration for many people.

I want to put in a HIVIZ sight on my M&P. Are the factory sights put in with a threadlocker or just friction fit? BTW I shoot low and left also with my M&P. This is a good thread for me, thanks!
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Old 12-13-2009, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphabrace View Post
The sights are fit extremely tight at the factory. Moving them is a source of endless frustration for many people.

I want to put in a HIVIZ sight on my M&P. Are the factory sights put in with a threadlocker or just friction fit? BTW I shoot low and left also with my M&P. This is a good thread for me, thanks!
They are fit very tight the rear one is not to difficult to remove. It comes out left to right only. The front sight is a real pain to get out without a pusher tool. You can send just the slide to Novak they will sell and install them for you, if they have what you want. You might consider another option would be to install the Novak adjustable rear sight which is nearly a match for the one that comes on the M&P.

http://www.novaksights.com/index.htm

Last edited by magnum12pm; 12-13-2009 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 12-13-2009, 09:14 PM
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Thanks Magnum. I am thinking of designing a removal and or adjustable tool for the sights since I cannot find anything I like. The left to right is when looking at the rear of the pistol correct?
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Old 12-13-2009, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by alphabrace View Post
Thanks Magnum. I am thinking of designing a removal and or adjustable tool for the sights since I cannot find anything I like. The left to right is when looking at the rear of the pistol correct?
That is correct.
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Old 12-13-2009, 09:35 PM
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Now, this thread has finally started to progress.
Thank ya'll.
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:08 AM
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Glad you managed to find the assistance you required?
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:29 AM
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One after market sight manufacturer alluded to the dove tail on the MP series pistols as having exhibited variances. As for sight pushers a local fellow whom reports to be a gunsmith has the top of the line sight pusher ($500-$600??Cost). He managed to mess up the instillation of a Novak front sight and a 10-8 rear sight. What can you say other than he did his best which wasnít good enough. Thatís been my experience with the MP to date.
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Old 12-14-2009, 10:11 AM
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well I don't want to jump in the middle of this fray, but I will add this,

I had an M&P 45 that shot low and right.................till I learned the trigger,

I'm a lefty BTW.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis40x View Post
One after market sight manufacturer alluded to the dove tail on the MP series pistols as having exhibited variances. As for sight pushers a local fellow whom reports to be a gunsmith has the top of the line sight pusher ($500-$600??Cost). He managed to mess up the instillation of a Novak front sight and a 10-8 rear sight. What can you say other than he did his best which wasnít good enough. Thatís been my experience with the MP to date.
So in other words, leave it to the real pros? Like the good folks at Novak.
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Old 12-14-2009, 05:47 PM
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Mine was shooting low and left too, but then I realized that it's just me, because when I shoot with my left hand, I shoot low and to the right.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:02 PM
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So in other words, leave it to the real pros? Like the good folks at Novak.
I sent a MP 40 slide to Novak last year for adjustable fiber optic site installation. If you send just the slide you can go USPS on the cheap. They had it back to me in less than a week, to my amazement, of course I live 130 miles from their location in Charleston. I think they charge about 35 bucks for install.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:26 PM
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How much to move it?

1) Find the sight radius by measuring the distance between the front and rear sight.
2) Divide this measurement into the range in inches you are sighting in at. this gives you a "Radius Multiple"

Whatever you move the rear sight will move the impact on the target by this multiple.

Example:
Sight radius= 5 inches
Yardage 25= 900 inches

900/5=180 (Radius Multiple)

Moving your rear sight 1/16 of an inch (.0625) will move the point of impact 11.25 inches at 25 yards

Working the other way divide the amount you want to move the point of impact on the target by your "Radius Multiple" and you will get the amount to move your rear site.

Hope this helps.
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:26 PM
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I course I live 130 miles from their location in Charleston.
1206 30th Street Parkersburg, WV 26101
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:06 PM
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1206 30th Street Parkersburg, WV 26101
That the second location mistake I have made this week. It must be my age showing its self. Thanks for getting my bearings on the right track.
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Old 12-15-2009, 12:05 AM
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So a friend of mine (yeah, a friend, that should work...) would like to know the best way to overcome shooting low left. Is it simply practicing and paying more attention to how you pull it or is there a better way. It's strange that I, I mean my friend has never had this problem before. I guess it must be something with the "safe action" trigger design. This is my, I mean his first experience with the feature.
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:40 PM
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So a friend of mine (yeah, a friend, that should work...) would like to know the best way to overcome shooting low left. Is it simply practicing and paying more attention to how you pull it or is there a better way. It's strange that I, I mean my friend has never had this problem before. I guess it must be something with the "safe action" trigger design. This is my, I mean his first experience with the feature.
It does take a little getting used to with the double action only trigger control. I had the same problem when I first got my MP 40 three years ago. You may want to make sure you are using proper grip technique, but mostly it is a matter of good trigger control...
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by magnum12pm View Post
It does take a little getting used to with the double action only trigger control. I had the same problem when I first got my MP 40 three years ago. You may want to make sure you are using proper grip technique, but mostly it is a matter of good trigger control...
Magum12pm, how do you learn good trigger technique? Is it simply practice?
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:31 PM
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Magum12pm, how do you learn good trigger technique? Is it simply practice?
You want to use the pad (above first joint) of the trigger finger. The best way I know of to learn trigger control is to dry fire the pistol, while holding a good sight picture on something around the house or garage. Now pull the trigger carefully while working to keep the sights on the target during the stroke of the trigger. A shooter can learn a lot about accurate shooting without firing a shot. You might even search the INTERNET for videos of shooting instruction demos. This is just for example, If you want to learn quick presentation of the weapon from a holster, you would not dream of practicing with a loaded gun. You would draw and dry fire until you master the technique, then load the gun. Never under estimate the value of dry fire. I would advise you to always make certain your weapon is unloaded before beginning a practice session.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:27 PM
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You want to use the pad (above first joint) of the trigger finger. The best way I know of to learn trigger control is to dry fire the pistol, while holding a good sight picture on something around the house or garage. Now pull the trigger carefully while working to keep the sights on the target during the stroke of the trigger. A shooter can learn a lot about accurate shooting without firing a shot. You might even search the INTERNET for videos of shooting instruction demos. This is just for example, If you want to learn quick presentation of the weapon from a holster, you would not dream of practicing with a loaded gun. You would draw and dry fire until you master the technique, then load the gun. Never under estimate the value of dry fire. I would advise you to always make certain your weapon is unloaded before beginning a practice session.
Hmmm, now I'm starting to get a little worried... I already went through that when I first got the gun, getting used to it. Originally it shot very well, but at the last range trip or two I noticed the trend. Maybe I'm reverting, but the possibility of something mechanical (though I wouldn't know what) is creeping into mind.

I'll take the drill back up and see how the next trip goes before I jump to conclusions. Maybe my sights moved
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
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Hmmm, now I'm starting to get a little worried... I already went through that when I first got the gun, getting used to it. Originally it shot very well, but at the last range trip or two I noticed the trend. Maybe I'm reverting, but the possibility of something mechanical (though I wouldn't know what) is creeping into mind.

I'll take the drill back up and see how the next trip goes before I jump to conclusions. Maybe my sights moved
Its never a waste of time to verify proper site adjustment on a solid rest, if for nothing else but to sooth the mind of worries, I've done it more than once. It is most likely not site problem. My experience has shown me that you almost need a sledge hammer to move the sites on an MP. I have chuckled a few times when wondering why the factory even bothers to put a set screw on the rear site.
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Spotteddog View Post
What OKF said (as usual).
Besides, the only way there would be to adjust POI up and down (elevation) on a gun with fixed sights, would be to mill them down, or replace them with shorter one's. I'd tend towards wanting to try using sand bags off of the bench with 3 shooters at a specific distance, all firing the same ammo, at the same size target. Only if all 3 shooters group in the same spot on their target's, would I condemn the weapons sights. YMMV?
Very sound advice, and I don't see where help has to be perceived as condemnation...? Many years ago, I was at the range with my brand new Beretta .40 (pretty snappy recoil in that gun...). Well, I was absolutely convinced that the sights were off due to the consistent low & left hits. So, I figured I'd get a second opinion, and asked the range officer to try it. Sure enough, he blew the center out of the target! I was a little embarassed, but hey, the trigger was new to me, I never had formal training, and at the time I was used to nice 1911 trigger pulls...

I did appreciate that little 'lesson,' and now always follow the steps highlighted in a couple of the previous posts before assuming it's the sights. Dry fire practice on a stationary target is definitely a good way to see if (or, how much...) the muzzle is moving when you pull the trigger.
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:38 PM
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Default push pull method

Magnum or anyone else please chime in...
I find myself pushing out with my strong arm and pulling back with weak supporting arm to create a resistance type of grip/shooting framework. It seems to firm up the shoulders to arms to hands, framework to shoot from. Anyone else do this or is this just crazy talk?
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
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Magnum or anyone else please chime in...
I find myself pushing out with my strong arm and pulling back with weak supporting arm to create a resistance type of grip/shooting framework. It seems to firm up the shoulders to arms to hands, framework to shoot from. Anyone else do this or is this just crazy talk?
I have heard a couple of pro shooters suggest the push pull method, don't remember who. I think it is a sound theory, I may do it myself and not realize it. Its like teaching someone your job at work and forgetting a few of the fine points because you have been on the job a long time, taking somethings for granted.
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:17 PM
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Yee Haw I just denied all you problem solvers some pride.
There is a little set screw on the rear sight that can be adjusted for bulls eye shooting.
Did none of you professionals know about this? No I did not condemn the pistol sights, just tweaked them to be dead on.
Ya'll need to let the air out of your chest.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:37 PM
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i know i am a little late to this thread but i need some help. hopefully you guys can help.. to some one that is new to owning firearms and handguns (me).. how exactly do you adjust the rear sight?? i have shoot 200+ rounds and i have a good grouping, but its to the right of where my sights line up. actually quite a bit to the right! i had two other experienced shooters also give it a whirl to see if it was just me, and its not.. i see there is an allen head screw on the top of the sight, is that what i need to loosen in order to re aligne my sight?? help would be greatly appreciated i dont like having to compinsate for it. im mechanically inclined, its just i dont want to mess up my brand new gun, i wanna know for sure that im doing it right.. thanks
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