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  #1  
Old 07-07-2010, 05:09 PM
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Default M&P external safety add on

I have a gun with no safeties except the cantilever on the trigger, after a friend shot himself with a Glock I am wondering if I want to carry a striker fired gun especially after I put in the Apex sear.

I am used to a 1911 gun so an external safety manipulation to me on the draw is second nature.

Here is how much penetration you can get with a 9mm FMJ in the thigh out above the knee, back in the calf, out again above the jack boot.

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Old 07-07-2010, 05:19 PM
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While I wish your friend a speedy and full recovery, that injury screams of him having put his finger on the trigger when holstering or un-holstering his Glock. Manual safeties are no substitute for being well trained and mentally alert (and always following the 4 cardinal rules of firearms safety). Of course something else may have engaged the trigger, like a thumb strap. But again, that is covered with training and mental alertness. As I say in training, there are NO accidental discharges only negligent discharges. That being said, if you feel better with a manual safety by all means get an M&P with one or have S&W put one on. You may also want to consider getting Apex's kit for duty guns that increases trigger pull weight.

Last edited by mlk18; 07-07-2010 at 05:23 PM. Reason: Added more wisdom.
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Old 07-07-2010, 07:36 PM
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Dave, that is one wicked looking wound...please extend my wish for a speedy recovery.

Would you or your friend care to share with the rest of us, how this "negligent discharge" occured? The reason I'm asking is that we could possibly learn from his unfortunate "accident", which may then prevent something like this from happening again.
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:58 PM
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I sincerely hope this guy will or has recovered fully.

This looks as though a violation of the most basic firearm safety rules.

Can't blame a guns design for that.

The most important safety is your brain. The second, your trigger finger.
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Old 07-07-2010, 09:11 PM
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OUCH!!! ~first off...
The obvious thoughts are with your friend for a full quick recovery.

I have to say though...
When you pull that pistol you are 100% and on your A game.
You remain that way until your holster goes click and your secure.

It may seem overly cautious, but remember you fight how you train.
If everytime you pull that pistol you are completely focused,
you have a better chance to act the same the next time (under pressure).

Man that looks like it is a gift that keeps on giving...
I am sure it only hurts more over time... ouch!!!
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:37 AM
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It was in an action match, he shot the handgun and reholstered into a Serpa clone type holster and got some T-Shirt into the holster, he transitioned to his M-16 and when he took the first step, the shirt pulled taught and pulled the trigger. The gun cycled and reloaded another round in the holster, had it been the Glock 18 on full auto it would have ate his leg, or a duty round rather than FMJ.

Ok so does anyone know if the external safety is available to add onto the gun.

My gun does not have the magazine disconnect, it does not have the kiddie key lock, it does not have the external manual safety. So it has the trigger safety, what is it going to hurt to have a manual safety since I am used to it and with the new Apex sear I am kind of nervous to carry the gun.

Last edited by David Hineline; 07-08-2010 at 02:42 AM.
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hineline View Post
Ok so does anyone know if the external safety is available to add onto the gun.

My gun does not have the magazine disconnect, it does not have the kiddie key lock, it does not have the external manual safety. So it has the trigger safety, what is it going to hurt to have a manual safety since I am used to it and with the new Apex sear I am kind of nervous to carry the gun.
I believe if you review the second from last thread on this page below, you may find the answer about safety add on.

My question to you and your buddy is; even IF he did have a manual safety on his pistol, in this particular incident, would he have engaged the safety especially while in "competition" mode where every second counts?

Since you have seen, up close and personal, the destructive and dangerous effect of what a ball round, let alone a JHP, can do, I'm sure that you are more than worried about something like this occuring with your "un-safety-ed" pistol. I don't blame you for feeling "nervous" now, however, I would think long and hard about converting your pistol with a manual safety, especially, if this is your SD/CCW piece. Silvercn took the words right out of my mouth when he stated that constant vigilance and awareness are key whenever your weapon is unholstered. Not to say that your buddy was careless in any way, but it sounds like one of those "freak accidents", that we all can still learn from.

I guess what I'm saying is that, in my opinion, your "self defense tool" should be as ready as possible when you need it to be. If that makes you "nervous", then maybe more training, including taking a gun safety class, might help you overcome this.
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:10 PM
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It might be worth a call to S&W to ask for sure if the safety can be added. It seems it was discussed before and couldn't be done, but I think they were asking if the 45 safety could be used on the 9/40 guns.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:22 PM
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Well there was lots of Ford Vs Chevy information in that thread. Some like it hot, some like it not.

So I will just give you more pictures.

My gun



My Glocks


My daughter

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Old 07-08-2010, 10:52 PM
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David, in response to your original question, S&W will not add that safety to your M&P, they can not make a change to the gun that changes the SKU number of the gun. I have the safety levers if you, or someone, can do the installation. I don't have any dimensions or instructions but if you want to give it a shot just email me at kenny-d AT mindspring DOT com.
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  #11  
Old 07-10-2010, 01:46 AM
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Gunsmith named Dan Burwell got back to me, since my frame is not cut for it, and I do not have the proper trigger block assy. I am out of luck.

I will continue to keep stuff off the trigger when it does not belong there.
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Old 07-10-2010, 02:28 PM
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Trading yours for one with a safety is about the same as adding the safety, I believe, but I have a very customer friendly gun dealer.
First, I moved from Glocks to M&P's (ergonomics, mostly, although I got $300 in rebates, since I traded 6 for 6, not all at the same time)
Now, I am moving to add the 1911 type safety. You almost have to engage and lock it while using the slide release lever, as your thumb goes under the manual safety, not over it, unless your thumb is like Doctor J's. Slide closes, round is chambered, safety engaged.
Unfortunately, bad things can happen to passive safety design handguns, despite that we think we are taking all precautions, double checks, etc.
Fortunatley your friend avoided the femoral artery and femur, or he could have been in serious trouble ( doesn't take terribly long to bleed out from severing the femoral, and a busted femur is 6 months of surgeries and recovery time).
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  #13  
Old 07-10-2010, 06:06 PM
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Default M&P External safety

Ordered my M&P 40c without the magazine safety and with the external safeties (ambi). Never had a problem with ADs with my Glock, though one of our local PDs was rather famous for them. Just thought it would be a good idea for my next striker fired pistol, since I also spend a good deal of time shooting 1911's. Hope you friend has quick recovery, this is a lesson for all of us when reholstering our weapons.
Thanks,
Bill
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Old 07-17-2010, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlk18 View Post
As I say in training, there are NO accidental discharges only negligent discharges.
This strikes me as an absolute statement, and there are NO absolutes (usually). As I've reported before, many years ago I had an accidental discharge, caused when I activated the thumb safey on a Llama .380 1911-style pistol. My finger NEVER touched the trigger, the problem was with the gun. There was no negligence on my part, it was just an accident caused by a defective weapon. Fortunately it happened on the range and no damage was caused, other than my own personal "accident" (fill in your own details here :-)
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toocool View Post
there are NO absolutes (usually).


TFred.
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:58 PM
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Many years ago I was shooting a Ruger Pre-MK I .22 pistol. The only way to lock the bolt open on that pistol is to hold the bolt back and engage the safety while doing so. I had the bolt locked open, loaded a fresh magazine, and pushed the safety off, which caused the bolt to close. I pointed the pistol at my target and pressed the trigger. Nothing. Still pointing the pistol down range I took my finger off the trigger and looked at the gun. The safety appeared to be down in the fire position and the gun was in battery. I pushed down on the safety again, finger still off the trigger, and the gun fired. Luckily I still had the gun pointed down range at my target. Not all unintended discharges are negligent.
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Old 07-22-2010, 03:05 PM
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I am most curious about how this "action match" stage was set up....

From your description of what occurred it sounds like your friend transitioned from a "hot" pistol (after shooting it during the stage) to a hot rifle after holstering the pistol???

If this is the correct order of the events leading up to the "AD", then the way the stage was designed makes NO sense. Why would you be shooting your pistol if you are also armed with a carbine/rifle? Why would a match require a shooter to essentially conduct a "Speed Holster" under the clock? I can see a transition from the carbine to the pistol under the clock, that is common, but requiring a "speed holster" under stress, whether it be time induced stress or otherwise makes no sense.
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Old 05-30-2011, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickDrak View Post
If this is the correct order of the events leading up to the "AD", then the way the stage was designed makes NO sense. Why would you be shooting your pistol if you are also armed with a carbine/rifle? Why would a match require a shooter to essentially conduct a "Speed Holster" under the clock? I can see a transition from the carbine to the pistol under the clock, that is common, but requiring a "speed holster" under stress, whether it be time induced stress or otherwise makes no sense.
Plenty of scenarios that would call for this. Moving from indoors (extreme close quarters - no space to swing the long) to outdoors.
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Old 06-01-2011, 09:07 AM
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David - I hope your friend makes a quick & full recovery. I showed the picture you posted to my sons and pointed out how experienced your friend is with firearms and explained how "innocent" this accident was. I'm hoping it's a teachable moment that stays with them for life. Thanks for sharing what I'm sure is an embarrassing moment for your friend. We can all learn a lot from this.
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hineline View Post
... does anyone know if the external safety is available to add onto the gun.
If you call this S&W number: 1-800-331-0852 Ext. 2905 the folks there will tell you that it is NOT possible to add on a safety. And, that there are certain models you can purchase that have them already built in.
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Old 07-04-2011, 03:47 PM
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Hope your friend is recovering well. This is a good post to share as a safety reminder.
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Old 07-26-2011, 07:53 PM
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From now on I will carry my MP 45 with an empty chamber,It takes a split of a second to chamber a round and fire,I saw a you- tube video where a guy after being attacked with a knife ,got hold of his glock and chamber a round and fire ,he did it so fast you have to see the video twice to realize what he did.The bad guy was dead before he hit the ground.
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Old 07-26-2011, 11:30 PM
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You're not "that guy."

Carry the pistol in Condition 1. Take a professional "basic tactical pistol" course of 3 days duration.

If you're not comfortable with this get a M1911 with the thumb safety or HK45 with the LEM trigger.

Shooting yourself is a problem. Bad shooter, holsters, and untucked shirts are almost universally to blame, not the pistol.

-- Chuck
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:40 AM
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+1 to Chuck!

"Israeli carry" (empty chamber) is fine if you're constantly moving through marketplaces and condensed masses of humanity where you may have to wrestle for your own firearm, but it sucks horribly most every other time when you may have to draw your SD gun under life-threattening and non-ideal circumstances.

Get yourself a decent holster , don't snag your shirt into the holster when you insert the gun, and get some training.

If you think you have the time to draw, rack, and get a shot off, try running a Tueler drill.

Empty your gun (no, really, double, triple, quadruple check it's empty!!!) then get a friend to run at you (simulating a knife attack) from 10 yards. I guarantee you will hardly clear leather, let alone have time to rack, before he's all over you.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop View Post
From now on I will carry my MP 45 with an empty chamber,It takes a split of a second to chamber a round and fire,I saw a you- tube video where a guy after being attacked with a knife ,got hold of his glock and chamber a round and fire ,he did it so fast you have to see the video twice to realize what he did.The bad guy was dead before he hit the ground.
I'd strongly recommend against doing this.

Life is not a video. You're other hand may not be available. You may be fighting off the suspect with your weak hand. You may be injured. You may be pushing a loved one out of the line of fire. You may see the threat coming and want to covertly draw the gun. "Racking " the slide blows the whole covert thing out the window.

There are a lot of reasons why you should have a gun that's loaded if you are carrying a gun into harms way. Loaded means fully loaded.

This really boils down to proper equipment and training. The friend of the OP was using a knockoff holster. He was competing in a game type environment.

In a real world type environment, there is no rush to re-holster after becoming involved in an incident. Any decent instructor worth the title will teach students to scan for additional threats prior to holstering.
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:51 PM
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Why not just get a gun with a safety... If its not feasible to add a safety to your current firearm..... I got rid if my glock19 ... Traded it for a smith 66-1 with box and tools ... I carry my 4006 now ... And feel secure with a round in the chamber and safety on....
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:27 PM
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David,

Here's hoping you friend makes a speedy recovery.

As someone that just ditched an M&P 9mm because it lacked a thumb safety (and had a mag disconnect) for an M&P40 with the safety (and no mag disconnect) that is the action I'd recommend. As a 1911 shooter, the manual safety gun suits me perfectly. It matches my 1911s and my M&P22. I applaud S&W for giving us the choice.
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Glock AD GSW at Match This thread Refback 12-24-2013 02:54 AM
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Glock AD GSW at Match - M4Carbine.net Forums This thread Refback 05-03-2012 12:43 PM
OUCH! Some "Glock" leg... - Calguns.net This thread Refback 03-09-2012 12:25 PM
ND: Bad Holster manipulation? (Graphic Content Warning) | Gun Free Zone This thread Refback 02-20-2012 09:38 AM
Negligent Discharge | Gun Free Zone This thread Refback 02-19-2012 09:18 AM
Glocks fires by tee shirt... This thread Refback 02-18-2012 08:30 AM

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