New guy,...lots of questions

djm · #1 07-23-2010, 01:46 PM

Hi folks, new to the forums, new to the M&P and relatively new to pistols in general. I've used shotguns and rifles all my life, spent several years in the military, where I "played" with many weapon systems...though only became proficient with a couple.

So, question #1 has to do with my grip.

I've put about 500 rounds through my new M&P.40, and I'm shooting pretty consistent 4" to 5" groups at 10 yards. But I can't seem to get past that. So, I'm looking at everything to see where I can improve. (BTW, I intend to get some coaching one of these days, but it'll likely be a little while.)
While dry firing I notice that I am jerking the trigger some, though I've never had that problem before. So I tried a few different grips, and found that I had the most stable feel with my strong thumb resting on top of the safety, and my support thumb on the side below the slide and just on or behind the take-down lever. The problem that I see/feel with this is the potential for either of my thumbs to get bitten by the slide, or perhaps leaning on the take-down lever too much.

I'm not exactly grouping tighter this way yet, but hopefully that will come in time.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks

ptiller · #2 07-24-2010, 03:12 AM

Many ranges carry correction targets. Based on where your shot hits, the target can indicate ( written on the target ) what you are maybe doing to effect your shots. You can do a google image search and find something similar on the web.
You can also just google "pistol grip" or similar and find all sort of article on the subject.
Good luck.

djm · #3 07-24-2010, 08:53 AM

I have looked into it and read many articles on the subject, but I was hoping to get some firsthand info about the full size M&P in particular, from knowledgeable folks who shoot them regularly.

Also, I've put about 500 rounds through and dry fired another 200 or so cycles. Without any modifications, how much better can I expect the trigger to get over time? And how long is the typical "break-in" period, as it applies to the trigger/sear?

MotorCityGun · #4 07-24-2010, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptiller

Many ranges carry correction targets. Based on where your shot hits, the target can indicate ( written on the target ) what you are maybe doing to effect your shots. You can do a google image search and find something similar on the web.
You can also just google "pistol grip" or similar and find all sort of article on the subject.
Good luck.

Try this one out.

RooiValk · #5 07-26-2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djm

Also, I've put about 500 rounds through and dry fired another 200 or so cycles. Without any modifications, how much better can I expect the trigger to get over time? And how long is the typical "break-in" period, as it applies to the trigger/sear?

I pretty much have the same question posed in another thread. The trigger is really horrible, but I'm used to firing assault rifles so I don't know if this kind of grittiness in the trigger is normal.

missiondude · #6 07-26-2010, 09:22 PM

Get the Apex Tactical trigger kit that is appropriate for what you are using the gun for and dont look back. I did my wifes gun and she shoots ragged holes at 7 yds all day long. I was so impressed with the trigger after I was done, that I bought another kit, then looked for a 40 to install it in... Give Randy a call at Apex, you will not be sorry.

Dragon88 · #7 07-26-2010, 09:22 PM

I experimented with the "thumbs in line" grip for a while thinking it would magically help my pistol shooting. It always felt unnatural to me, mostly because I shoot revolvers a lot and the grips are so different. Finally I gave up on that and went back to my normal grip, with my right hand in a firm "handshake" on the pistol, left hand supporting, left thumb hanging off to the left. Also I began concentrating on my trigger control and flinch, and that was the big key. You could have the most technically accurate, solid grip ever, but if you flinch and jerk the trigger the bullets will still be all over the target.

Start a regimen of dry-fire practice with snap caps. Concentrate on moving just your trigger finger back in a smooth, fluid motion, everything else is rock solid. The trigger should break with the sights still exactly aligned on target. Also run drills where a partner loads a magazine for you with one round being a snap cap in an unknown order in the magazine. The click and no bang will be a surprise, and if you flinch when that snap cap comes up, you know you still need to resolve that issue.

MotorCityGun · #8 07-26-2010, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragon88

The click and no bang will be a surprise, and if you flinch when that snap cap comes up, you know you still need to resolve that issue.

A buddy of mine said that the two loudest sounds you will hear when firing a weapon is "click" when you expected to hear "bang", and "bang" when you expected to hear "click".

Dragon88 · #9 07-26-2010, 11:57 PM

That's very true. I've never had an unexpected (negligent) bang and I never plan to, knock on wood.

You really need to set your ego aside when practicing these skills. When you flinch or throw a shot or jerk the trigger, don't get flustered, use it as information on your shooting and try to not do it again. When you flinch when that unexpected snap cap comes up, man, your partner and others on the line can see you do it from a mile away. You see it all the time when guys don't realize their pistol has run dry or jammed. Just focus and keep working it. This last weekend I was "pushing" on the last shots in a string while practicing rapid fire, it made me feel stupid but now I know what I need to work on.

djm · #10 07-27-2010, 06:31 AM

Thanks for the responses so far, keep 'em coming.

When dry firing, I'll go several reps where the front sight won't move at all, then I'll have a couple in a row where it is all over the place. And that is pretty consistent with the appearance of my targets as well.

I'd be content (maybe) with 4 inch groups at 10 yards - if I didn't have the rare 2" group pop up every now and then, making me aware of my inconsistencies.

It's not in my nature to blame the equipment for any problem...you know, the hammer didn't bend the nail...but I read an awful lot about these triggers being pretty rough. When I went to the range to try several different guns, this one stuck out because it had the best feel and the best trigger. Now that one was a rental, and who knows how many rounds had been through it, but it makes me hold out a little bit of hope that it does get better with use.

silvercn · #11 07-28-2010, 02:46 AM

I know your frustration.
I consider myself a good shot... but always room for improvement.

We were at pratice the other day and the instructors had an idea to have the shooter hold the gun and get on target.
Then they would be the one to pull the trigger. SPOT ON!!!

For me that really drove home the meaning of trigger control.
Not slapping, not flinching, etc. etc.

Really focus on your trigger pull and keeping that aim EXACTLY ON TARGET.
I know it is strange... but it will greatly increase your accuracy when in your SD role playing and quick draw and shoot. (it did for me)

JYogi · #12 07-28-2010, 08:51 AM

Its soooo true, trigger control is the most important thing and honestly my biggest issue still. When I get my M&P I am going to start some serious dry fire drills and train with this one the right way from the start.

I have a M&Pc .357 Sig coming and I want to make this my EDC

djm · #13 07-28-2010, 09:41 AM

While dry firing I noticed that I get much less front sight movement when I choke up on the trigger more, placing it right on the edge of the first joint. As I was taught, this was the cardinal sin of a good trigger squeeze, and you should always use the center of the finger pad and never use the joint unless you're hunting quail with a 12 gauge or something. Now, I haven't done any live firing this way yet to see if I end up pulling to the right, but when dry firing its rock solid. It just feels more like a deliberate squeeze, and less like a surprising and sudden jerk caused by a heavy finger load followed by a sudden release.

Its tough to put it into words, I guess I just don't have the vocabulary. But you should get the idea.

Thoughts?

djm · #14 08-04-2010, 01:27 PM

So...I'm still undecided which grip I prefer, (thumbs in line just doesn't feel right), but I think my trigger is getting better. It actually surprised me a couple times yesterday; and that hadn't happened before. It seems to be a little smoother, and breaking slightly cleaner. Now, it may be my imagination, but I like it.

Also, after reading several opinions on the forums, I blacked out the dots on my rear sight - and I like it much better.