I won a S&W contest a month ago, $1000 4th place, so I thought I would buy my 1st semi-auto. After much comparison fondling of Taurus and Springfield and Sig and on and on I was very happy to have the M&P in my hand. I was unable to shoot any of them, so I chose based on how they felt in my hand. I have carried and fired wheel guns for years - Model 13-1 357 and a lately a new 642 (for summer carry) and now I am proud to own a 3rd S&W.

I have only been dry-firing the M&P because I am waiting for the snow to melt so I can go to the range. The trigger mechanism is horrible. It has 3 or 4 rough spots as I squeeze, then hangs just as it releases. But also, that armature that goes from the trigger around the top of the mag well and back to the sear(?) is rubbing on the right side slide stop lever, and has rubbed a shiny spot on it already. When cocked, as I pull back on the trigger, the slide rocks very slightly, and the right side slide lock lever moves.

I took it back to the shop I bought it from and they handed me a 40 Compact and it felt very similar, so I got the "They all do that." I was not aware of that armature rubbing the slide stop lever until tonight, which prompted me to go to the experts.

I read about the Apex parts, I know that would solve some of that roughness and lower the 'pull', and I might just go there, but this armature that is rubbing can't be correct, can it? Would the Apex parts fix that?

Forgive my terminology, I am not an expert. But I need one now. Suggestions? And thanks!

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Marty 4513TSW 13-1 642 60-10

The trigger bar does rub on the slide stop, it's normal. The trigger will smooth out over time but the Apex parts are superb and will make your trigger feel a lot better a lot sooner.

Marty:

What presspics said....

DO go for the Apex kit when you get the opportunity (and the $100). It makes a heck of a difference. But just dry firing (and some very careful lubrication) will clean up most of it. It IS supposed to rub along the side of the grip frame a bit.

The real reasons for roughness are the drop safety plunger (that loop on the top of the trigger bar has to contact it) being shaped wrong, and the engagement angles of the stock sear. The Apex kit fixes both of those.

If you're not really put off by the trigger, some lubricant and dry firing should be sufficient. The Apex kit changed my (now 3) M&P's into something that feels like my two circa 1968 S&W wheelguns - at the time, about the best production triggers you could buy.

(I'm just a happy camper with the Apex stuff. Very pleased with the performance, and with the folks at Apex in general.)

Regards,

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Stu.

Thanks guys for the replies. It just seemed strange that a part should rub on another part. What is the reason to do that, I wonder? And yes, I understand the angles and shapes, I saw part of the Apex video.

Thanks again. I might get out to shoot it today.

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Marty 4513TSW 13-1 642 60-10

The reason it rubs is because the M&P has an ambidextrous slide release. On other guns there is no slide release on that side of the frame so there is nothing for the trigger bar to rub against other than the polymer frame.

Installing the Apex kit doesn't void any warranty, does it?

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Marty 4513TSW 13-1 642 60-10

It's usually a good idea to put back any stock parts when sending a gun in for warranty work no matter what manufacturer.

Marty:

I don't think they'd notice in this case, but I would worry about getting back the same little bits.... The MA-Compliant sear spring & plunger are a pretty obvious change, but it's probably impossible to tell who did it anyway. My vote would be to remove a RAM kit, and the new sear and springs, but you can't do anything about the MA-Compliant sear spring and plunger.

(If you have the new small sear spring, you may want to swap that back, but be very careful when removing the sear and trying to get the spring plunger out - odds are they'll go flying across the room.)

My "official" (like it really matters) view is that any modification that requires five minutes or less to "put back" doesn't count.... Just the issue of getting your own parts back.

Some years back, I blew up a Colt Combat Commander for the second time (nasty frame defect, actually) and sent the gun back to Colt. They wanted just under $400 to remove all of my custom parts (slide stop, grip safety, Pachmayr grips, Bar-Sto barrel, and a few other odds & ends) to bring the gun back to spec. They refused to actually fix the frame defect, or warrant the "repaired" gun....

(I told 'em to ship it back.... The frame grew a .22LR conversion kit, and I sold the slide to a friend who was doing a "project" gun. The side was fine. I have no idea why the frame was defective, or if it could have been fixed at all, but it was pretty obviously defective. Old gun, willed to me by a friend, and Lord knows where he got it. But it would have been nice....)

Back to topic , I don't think I'd bother swapping the drop safety plunger or the trigger springs. PITA in both cases. Unless another problem exists that ties exactly to those parts, I would presume that S&W would ignore 'em. (Again, getting the springs back might be interesting.) Neither the trigger spring or the Apex drop safety plunger really change much of anything, other than the plunger smoothing out (and somewhat reducing) trigger pull.

Can't speak for today, with the problems that Para's been having, but a while back I had a problem with a gun with some aftermarket parts that were more or less deep in the issues involved. Not only did they ignore them, but their QA guy tested some "stock" parts for me, and sent me a couple to see if I could find any issues between them and my aftermarket parts. When I thanked him, and asked about the aftermarket issue, he said "so?"....

Regards,

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Stu.

It may void the warranty depending on the problem. If you send it in with Apex parts then S&W will return the gun to factory spec before sending it back to you. They will most likely dispose of the Apex parts on you.

Take the money that you would spend on a set of Apex parts, buy more ammo, go shoot the gun. Problem is soon solved.
You get better with the gun and the gun gets better for you. My M&P .40 has over 15,000 rounds downrange and keeps on getting better. Yours will too.
Randy

That's no fun.... Besides Randy Lee and Scott (and Lisa) can use the money ....

But it does help to be reasonably skilled at that sort of thing. And to have the extra $90 or so....

In all seriousness though, yours is not bad advice. Just IMHO the Apex kit will do it faster, and I think putting 15,000 rounds through my M&P40C would likely leave me with a ball of melted plastic and some metal scraps ....

(Reality check: I just bought an M&P9C. During the three days between when I bought it and when I made it to the range, I dry-fired it about 400 times. The difference between "shot #1" and "shot #400" was definite.... I blame evil spirits for taking that long to get the gun to the range - I've been known to take a new one to the range BEFORE taking it home.... There's a cleaning kit in the trunk for just that purpose. You gotta clean 'em first .)

Regards,

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Stu.

The apex kit is nice but I will say that the M&P triggers clean up nicely without the need for aftermarket parts. There is a thread around here (and on another M&P dedicated website) that will lead you through a pictorial procedure on how to do your own trigger job without parts. Have to say that my 45FS cleaned up nice and now delivers a crisp 5.5# trigger that is comperable to my Apex triggered M&P..

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Dave

Dave:

If it's Dan Burwell's "article", I saw it about a year ago, when I bought my first M&P. Problem there (it is a good article!) is that it requires some skills I don't have.... Apex has essentially packaged a similar fix as a drop-in.

(I have a personal rule: "Don't muck with the engagement surfaces".... I was considering the drop safety plunger mod at one time - either for the M&P or for a similar design. The brain says "P22", but it could have been the PPS. I don't have either one anymore. That one I think I could have done. But not the sear....)

But, if you're happy, you're happy. I can't tell you that you're not, nor can I forbid you to be happy .... Sammy did say he'd nibble on your ankles, though, but what does he know?

Somewhat seriously - $80 for a kit that'll drop in and work, with minimal time/skill on my part (or about $50 to a smith) beats trashing a couple sears getting it right ....

It's nice to have the options....

Regards,

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Stu.

Thanks for the advice folks!

I went to the range yesterday but didn't have my tall boots on - the snow was too deep to wade out into the field to move the target frames.

I guess I was so spoiled by my 13-1 revolver's smooth as silk trigger (and even my newer 642) that it was a shock to have this grinding rubbing gritty thing working in a brand new pistol. I've been dry-firing it since I got it, doesn't seem to have changed yet, so I'll continue that for a while.

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Marty 4513TSW 13-1 642 60-10

Yes that's article. For the record, I'm not advocating anybody do anything to their gun that they are not comfortable with. I also agree that $80 is a very decent price. Just wanted to point out there are alternatives. I've got M&P's with both home installed fixes and have been happy with both.

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Dave