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Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols All Variants of the Smith & Wesson M&P Auto Pistols


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  #1  
Old 12-24-2010, 10:42 AM
crispy crispy is offline
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M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?  
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Default M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?

Can someone help me out with all of the rules for the various competition shooting organizations?

I've decided that the M&P line is the one for me. I love the feel. I love the features. But I don't want to buy something I can't use.

There is a M&P9 with a 5" barrel and there is a M&P9L. What's the diff? Trigger?

There is a M&P40 with a 5" barrel right?

Then there is the pro series. Are there 9's and 40's in the Pro line with 5" barrels?

Which one do I want/not want for IDPA and/or USPSA?

Are some not legal for SSP/Production?

Thanks
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Old 12-24-2010, 11:09 AM
OKFC05 OKFC05 is online now
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M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?  
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Quote:
all of the rules for the various competition shooting organizations?
Wow, that would be a very large book! I can help you with a couple: IDPA and USPSA (IPSC).
I shoot IDPA/SSP and USPSA/ Production with the M&P 9 Pro, which comes with the sights and trigger for these sports. Some people buy the L if they intend to put in the APEX kit and some particular aftermarket sights they prefer; why pay for something you're going to take off?
The reason I use 9mm in these two is that both require only minor power, and there's no point shooting .40. All are legal, some just better suited than others.

Now if you wanted to shoot Limited 10 in USPSA, .40 is an advantage because of major power scoring considerations.

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Old 12-24-2010, 11:22 AM
handgunner356 handgunner356 is offline
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M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?  
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The 5" Pro Series models have the fiber optic front sight/extended rear and lighter trigger. The 40 version would work well in USPSA/IPSC Limited class the 9mm using 10rds would work good in Production class. Not sure about IDPA but guessing the 4.25" 9mm using 10rds for SSP class. The longer slide gives you a better sight radius and less recoil, 9mm is cheaper ammo if you don't reload so it's really up to you to decide what fits you best. No matter what you get there's a class in USPSA for you, I can't say the same for IDPA.
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Old 12-24-2010, 11:27 AM
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M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?  
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Quote:
Not sure about IDPA but guessing the 4.25" 9mm using 10rds for SSP class. No matter what you get there's a class in USPSA for you, I can't say the same for IDPA.
Every one of the M&P pistols is legal in IDPA/SSP, but the 9Pro 5" is the most popular.
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Old 12-24-2010, 11:50 AM
crispy crispy is offline
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M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?  
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Great answers. Exactly what I needed. (I didn't really mean ALL of the rules. Just any that affected the M&P.)

Which classes are an option with the 5" 9mm? Same question with the 5" .40?

I'm leaning towards the Pro 9mm 5" but I don't want to limit myself.

Last edited by crispy; 12-24-2010 at 11:53 AM.
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  #6  
Old 12-24-2010, 01:27 PM
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M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crispy View Post
Great answers. Exactly what I needed.
Which classes are an option with the 5" 9mm? Same question with the 5" .40?

I'm leaning towards the Pro 9mm 5" but I don't want to limit myself.
CLASSES are determined by how well you shoot, so that is up to the shooter.

DIVISIONS are determined by the equipment, but you can always shoot in a division that allows more specialized equipment.

Specifically, in IDPA you can shoot the 9 Pro in SSP (where it naturally falls) or you can shoot it in ESP against STI widebodies.

In USPSA, it naturally falls in Production, but you could also shoot in Limited 10, Limited, or even Open (against unlimited race guns). You would probably get seriously spanked in open and limited.

The advantage of shooting in the natural division is that you are shooting against guns of the same type as yours and it is pretty much a heads-up contest of skill and speed.

That's why I shoot the 9 Pro in SSP and Production where you can compete without equipment issues. I also tend to shoot the same type gun in both IDPA and USPSA during a period of time to keep from confusing myself.

In USPSA Limited10 I use a .40, and a 1911 .45 in Single Stack. I don't shoot Open. I am a CRO so I get to see all the different Division guns up close and personal.
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Last edited by OKFC05; 12-24-2010 at 01:36 PM.
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  #7  
Old 12-24-2010, 02:46 PM
crispy crispy is offline
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M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?  
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Thank you.

Last question(s)...

So for SSP/Production, is there any advantage/disadvantage for choosing the 9mm over the .40?

Why would anyone choose/not choose the 5" version over the 4.25"?

Oh yeah, does anyone shoot compact pistols?
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  #8  
Old 12-24-2010, 04:27 PM
Canuck44 Canuck44 is offline
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M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?  
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If you reload there is no difference really in cost except for the bullets. Brass for both is all over the place. If you don't reload then 9MM is much cheaper to buy and is available everywhere. Depending on where you live .40 maybe scarcer and certainly more expensive. Factory .40 cal will certainly gives you a more snappier recoil. Most folks I know shoot 9MM in the divisions quoted. I assume for the above reasons.

The longer sight radius helps most.

My advice go with the 9MM PRo

Take Care

Bob
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  #9  
Old 12-27-2010, 03:41 PM
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I have a M&P Pro 5 inch barrel. I don't shoot IDPA anymore because the places are too far away. I thought The M&Ps had to be shot in ESP. I have an XD in 9mm and that had to be shot in ESP.

The difference between the M&P 9L and the M&P Pro 9mm is the fiber optic front sight and the fact it has the S&W Performance Center sear.

I like the 40 S&W for USPSA production. I bought an after market barrel for my Glock 35 to shoot lead. 140 grain TC lead bullet at minor power levels is milder than a 9mm. (IMO) I load it to 1000 Fps. If one doesn't reload, the 9mm is better for minor power levels.

But the M&P feels better in my hand. Making it easier, IMO, to manipulate. I am working on shooting it as good as I do the Glock 35. I'm real close.

The main point of this post is: The 9mm & the S&W 40 are good calibers for IDPA and USPSA. You have to choose.
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Old 12-27-2010, 04:58 PM
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M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?  
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I have a 9pro in 4.25" If I was going to buy it specifically for competition, I'd probably go with the 5" since the sights seem more competition oriented than the night sights on the 4.25" pro.

I bought mine as more of a multi purpose gun so the shorter barrel and night sights were a plus to me.
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  #11  
Old 12-27-2010, 04:58 PM
crispy crispy is offline
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M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?  
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I think I'm sold on the 9mm. I don't reload yet, so I'd like to keep cost down.

I'm just looking to see if there are any "gotchas" that would prevent me from shooting in a particular division.
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Old 12-28-2010, 10:22 AM
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I think others have stated this. In IDPA you would be shooting in ESP. (Possibly SSP). But a 40 would be in the same "division".

In USPSA, you could shoot it in just about all divisions. Well, not revolver. It would be minor power level. Actually, you could reload the 9mm to major power levels in the open class. Not a good idea for the longevity of your M&P 9mm. You can not buy, as far as I know, ammo that make major power levels. Have you seen what they use in the Open class? I know shooters that load 9mm to major power levels. They leave their brass on the ground. I try not to pick up any of that stuff.

I plan to use my M&P 9mm Pro in Limited, at minor power level. Just want to get classified in that division. Plan to do the same for Limited 10, but with a 9mm 1911.

The 9mm is an excellent starter caliber. Get one and start competitive shooting.

Go observe some matches. It will go a long way helping you make the decision of which one!

I am not competitive, I mean to be, it just doesn't work out for me. But I have fun.

Last edited by shotslow; 12-28-2010 at 10:27 AM.
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  #13  
Old 12-28-2010, 12:43 PM
crispy crispy is offline
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M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?  
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Is there a listing of pistols allowed for the IDPA SSP division? And excuse my ignorance, but what really is the difference between ESP and SSP? What can you add in ESP?

I found the list for "Production" for USPSA and the 9mm Pro is on it. Although that leads one to wonder why the .40 isn't?

I am going to start on the 7th of this month. I'll have to shoot my SR9c, but my immediate goal is just to learn the game, not to beat anyone.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:45 AM
GaryM&P GaryM&P is offline
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M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?  
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"but what really is the difference between ESP and SSP?"

You can shoot single action autos in ESP but not SSP. You cannot even shoot a stock XD in SSP because it is single action.

At a major match you will be shooting against high dollar competition-only guns in ESP. M&P's are great but you'll have your work cut out for you against a $4000 STI widebody.

I highly recommend going to idpa.com and reading the rules.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:01 PM
crispy crispy is offline
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M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?  
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I've been to IDPA (many times) and unlike USPSA I can't find a "list" of valid guns for Stock Service Pistol.

It could be that I'm blind, but I found it on the USPSA site.

I want to make sure that if I shell out $564 + mags + holster for a M&P Pro 9mm 5",

Smith & Wesson 9MM M&P9 Pro Series 5" Barrel Black Stainless $564.00 SHIPS FREE

that I can run it in the SSP and/or Production divisions of IDPA/USPSA...?

Many MANY thanks to all you S&W experts!
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:48 PM
handgunner356 handgunner356 is offline
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M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition? M&P Pro / 4.25" or 5" / 9mm or .40 for competition?  
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You might want to double check IDPA on the M&P, I don't know why they call a XD a single action other than it fires from a fully cocked striker maybe, if that is the case then the M&P operates the same way. As far as USPSA/IPSC goes they list the Pro 9 in production because that would be the suitable place to compete there againest other like guns. Our club matches usually are no more than 35-40 shooters so they list the open class separate but all the others are thrown together. So you end up seeing how you stack up with Ltd, Ltd 10, Production, Single Stack and Revolver shooters. But the idea is to become more proficient with YOUR firearm, if you're GAMING then buy the gun that has a advanage in a certain class. I have both the Pro 9 and 40. With those I can shoot in LTD/LTD 10(major/minor) and Production(scored minor) with either gun, my results would pretty much show up the same way, I'm not going for any National titles.

Last edited by handgunner356; 12-29-2010 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:18 PM
crispy crispy is offline
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Found this:

No IDPA-Approved Gun List

IDPA does not publish a list of approved guns; There are simply too many makes and models available for a small organization like IDPA to keep up with. Instead, IDPA specifies characteristics of acceptable firearms for each of five equipment divisions, and leaves it to the buyer to ascertain that the model he or she is considering for purchase fully meets the requirements.


On a specific local IDPA chapter website. Would explain why I can't find it.

But I also found several websites where people ask "What is the best gun for IDPA?" and the M&P Pro 9 comes up alllllllll the time...
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:13 AM
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I just bought an M&P Pro 9 to use for IDPA. M&P is definitely, without question SSP (not ESP) and fine for USPSA Production. I also shoot an XDm in ESP. I think the XD should be SSP but I don't make the rules so it really doesn't matter. As someone mentioned, there is no "approved" gun list for IDPA but there is a general list of criteria SSP guns must meet in the rulebook.

I do reload and thought about the M&P Pro 40 but decided on the 9mm because I don't have any other 40 caliber pistols and for IDPA (most of my shooting) there is no advantage to using the 40. For USPSA, I don't think there is any reason why the Pro 40 can't be used in Production and Limited-10 (and possibly Limited too) so the Pro 40 is a more "all around" choice.
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Old 12-31-2010, 10:40 PM
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This has been hashed pretty throughly but I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I've never shot USPSA (would like to) but have shot 8-10 IDPA matches. I had been shooting either an XDM40 or XDM9. Both are ESP (enhanced service pistol). I don't get the logic but it has to do with what happens to the striker internally. The XD/XDMs are considered single action. Having shot Glocks and M&Ps, the trigger action to the operator is very similar. That said, Glocks and M&Ps are in SSP (stock service pistol) and are considered double action as are Sigs, Berettas, and all the DA/SA handguns. I recently bought an M&P Pro 9 for the sole purpose of shooting IDPA. I did if for a couple of reasons. First has to do with gaming the system to an extent. If stay in IDPA you need to eventually shoot a "classifier" round. This essentially establishes your "handicap" so they will know which classification to place you under in an official match. To make marksman (the lowest classification) you have to shoot the course of fire in 210 seconds or better in SSP. If you shoot ESP, you only have 190 seconds to make marksman. I don't know if I'll ever shoot a major match but would rather be shooting in SSP. I also like the "auto forward" feature of the M&P. When you aggressively seat a new magazine at slide lock, the slide releases forward very easily. This equates to time in a match. Other manufacturers may or may not do it but I find that an advantage. Finally, although my Pro is new, I think I shoot it more accurately than my XDMs (which I love like my children). I think the 5" barrel and associated longer sight radius is at least part of the reason.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:25 PM
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Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who chimed in on this topic.

I "pulled the trigger" today and bought a 5" Pro 9mm.

Can not wait to shoot this thing.

Since I had not seen a Pro in person, I guess I was surprised that the rear sights are different than the standard M&P. I don't know how well I'll be able to see without the dots...
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