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  #1  
Old 01-17-2011, 08:39 PM
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Default M&P mag disconnect

I'm very interested in getting into the M&P platform. I have 2 MINOR beefs that I feel can be taken care of.

1. I want a gun without a mag safety...those models come with that verbage in WHITE LETTERING on the side of the slide...I dont like that. Any ideas on how to fix this issue? Could I buy a gun WITH mag safety and have the safety removed without messing with the integrity of the gun and/or warranty? Could it be buffed off?

2. I really dont like the reset on the trigger. I know that there are TONS of options out there that help with both reset and travel so this is not too bad of an issue.

Just 2 issues I have with the gun that are again very minor but was wondering if any of you have the same feelings.
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2011, 08:46 PM
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The mag safety is easy to remove:

S&W M&P mag disconnect removal
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryM&P View Post
The mag safety is easy to remove:

S&W M&P mag disconnect removal
Thats great! Since this will be my EDC will this "cut spring" make reliability a problem? Maybe I should just deal with the stupid white words...
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Old 01-18-2011, 07:58 AM
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I did my carry gun three years ago and it has never malfunctioned.

Springs are available from Speed Shooter Specialities:
Mag Safety Deactivation Spring
Speed Shooter Specialties

Or you can cut down a 1911 mag catch spring (which is what I did).
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  #5  
Old 01-18-2011, 08:05 AM
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I must be one of the few who look for a mag disconnect on my guns. I won't carry a gun without it. Some of my range guns don't have them, though.
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post
I must be one of the few who look for a mag disconnect on my guns. I won't carry a gun without it. Some of my range guns don't have them, though.

I can't think of any good reason for a mag disconnect, unless you're worried about someone taking the gun away from you. I won't let them get that close. I'm much more worried about getting charged in the middle of a mag change.
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:16 AM
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Suggest the OP try shooting a Pro model (available in both standard and 5" barrels).
They don't have any add-on "safeties" and have the improved factory trigger.
The "nanny" lettering found on guns now does not bother me, as the are not exactly works of art anyway; I buy them strictly to shoot.
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Last edited by OKFC05; 01-18-2011 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryM&P View Post
I did my carry gun three years ago and it has never malfunctioned.

Springs are available from Speed Shooter Specialities:
Mag Safety Deactivation Spring
Speed Shooter Specialties

Or you can cut down a 1911 mag catch spring (which is what I did).
THAT is what I wanted to see! Thanks Gary!
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  #9  
Old 01-18-2011, 01:57 PM
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I just removed the mag safety lever from my M&P 40. I replaced it with a cut-down spring from an assortment of springs sold at a Big-Box hardware store for under $4.

But to be safe, or to feel better about it, I ordered the $4 spring from Speed Shooters, which I will install when it arrives.
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Old 01-18-2011, 06:32 PM
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The springs form shooters specialty are the best. I had 2 M&P 9mm with the mag disconnect and used those springs. Took all of 10 minutes really and have never failed to function. I have at least 2000 rounds thru one of them and probably 1000 thru the other.
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:26 PM
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OK...so after you remove the mag safe lever and put the new spring in...is it 100% identical to a gun WITH OUT a mag safe?
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agksimon View Post
I can't think of any good reason for a mag disconnect, unless you're worried about someone taking the gun away from you. I won't let them get that close. I'm much more worried about getting charged in the middle of a mag change.
Really? there are many documented cases of the mag disconnect saving lives. Mostly cops who had their gun taken from them, but also cases of untrained people thinking the gun was unloaded after removing the magazine. I can't think of ONE case where having the ability to fire one round with the mag out has saved a life. Do you walk around in 100% situational awareness all the time? . Never struggled with a grocery bag while opening the car door? Never been on a date and concentrating on her as you walk her to her door? Never had to deal with a couple of kids arguing over who gets the window seat? Do you have eyes in the back of your head? Attacks happen quick and up close. I'm 6'2, 225 pounds. I'm not gonna say I will always get the upper hand in a struggle. Unless you're a robot, you CAN make a mistake. Like drivers who have been driving for years and they get into an accident. The odds of being in an actual shootout are probably 1 million to one (depending on your location). The odds of having the presence of mind to reload in the middle of that gunfight while you are dodging bullets and trying to stay alive are even bigger, not to mention being able to quickly and smoothly get that second mag in without dropping it or putting it in backwards, unless you have been extensively trained, and the odds of the one round you DO have being an instant man-stopper are even bigger. So now you have an empty gun, with the slide NOT locked back, and you need two hands to reload and chamber that round.

Mag disconnects fell out of favor right around the time the internet came into play. Internet rumor and armchair warriors have convinced people they are Jack Bauer.

Last edited by kbm6893; 01-19-2011 at 08:04 AM.
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  #13  
Old 01-31-2011, 07:18 PM
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I don't like mag disconnects because they work to untrain my mind that the gun is always loaded and can be fired, even with an empty mag well. While this may not be the case with my M&P 40c (or my Five-Seven for that matter), it is the case with just about every other gun I own. This creates a moment of confusion and possible accidents when handling other guns, especially the ones that require the trigger to be pulled before disassembly (Glock, XD, FN Five Seven, etc). Personally, I don't want a mag anywhere near my gun (loaded or not), when I have to pull the trigger in my home for maintenance reasons. My safety routine involves removing the mag and racking the slide more than once to check that the gun is empty. Having to put a mag in some of my guns to release the trigger sets up the potential for a mistake when I safety check it. It is unlikely to happen, but now that I am introducing more guns with mag disconnects alongside my existing ones without one that require the trigger to be pulled for stripping, the odds of an accident are increasing.
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  #14  
Old 01-31-2011, 08:36 PM
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In the new issue of Handgunner Magazine, Massad Ayoob's article is titled "Safety Catch" Lesson's From Real-World Shootings. Mag safetys do save lives...the next one could be yours.
spricks
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  #15  
Old 01-31-2011, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spricks View Post
In the new issue of Handgunner Magazine, Massad Ayoob's article is titled "Safety Catch" Lesson's From Real-World Shootings. Mag safetys do save lives...the next one could be yours.
spricks
No offense Spricks, but in my opinion Ayoob is a clown, just like Sanow, Marshall and Suarez. Just for one example, Ayoob railed against the .380 when it was catching on with Kel Tec. Then when Ruger came out with the LCP, he was out there pimping it as if he had never been against it.

As for his opinion, he of course is entitled to it just like anyone else. What bothers me is when companies leave you no choice by designing only one choice. Even worse is when state governments use these design features as ideas for new restrictive laws, like in California where mag disconnects are mandatory now (gee, thanks for giving them that idea manufacturers). I give credit to Rohrbaugh for abandoning the idea of installing electronic smart locks (like Colt played with on their defunct polymer pistol...I think it was called the P2000) because they were alerted by the gun community that states would likely use them as an excuse to require such things on all guns.

If someone wants a disconnect, they should be allowed to have choices of available models which offer it as an option...just like I should be able to not have it. Unfortunately, in California I no longer have the choice. I just can't wait to see what other ideas manufacturers will give to state governments next. This one is particularly bad in my opinion because it leaves no easy option to bypass it, unlike the other annoying new ideas/new California requirements like loaded chamber indicators (dangerous to rely on...should always manually check) or cocked striker indicators (could be broken, thus errantly leading one to believe the gun is not going to fire if the trigger is pulled), etc.
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  #16  
Old 02-01-2011, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
.. but in my opinion Ayoob is a clown, just like Sanow, Marshall and Suarez.
Wisdom beyond your years!

If there was ever an excellent reason to not buy this pistol it's the small lettering on the warnings. Just see how bad this looks. And the hideous white lettering on the rear sight! :



-- Chuck
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  #17  
Old 02-01-2011, 08:37 AM
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That does look bad! What is going on with all these on-the-gun instruction manuals? I'm trying to line up the sights, not read a book about something I should know already anyway.
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  #18  
Old 02-01-2011, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seed View Post
I don't like mag disconnects because they work to untrain my mind that the gun is always loaded and can be fired, even with an empty mag well.
I have the mag disconnect and can't imagine how anyone's mind will be 'untrained' that a gun may be loaded because of this safety feature.

I treat every gun as if it is loaded, and never point any gun, even an airsoft or paintball gun, in a dangerous direction. The fact that my gun has a mag disconnect sure doesn't change that fact.

There is no reason to pull the trigger to strip the gun so I don't see the issue there either.

Mine has the disconnect by choice, and if I later decide I don't want it I will remove it. Another benefit is I don't have the goofy writing on the side of my slide.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:26 PM
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If all my guns had a mag disconnect, then it would not be a problem. The fact is that most of the too many I own do not have one...I grew up on guns that do not have the mag disconnect. When it comes to safety checking them, besides never pointing them in an unsafe direction, assuming the gun is always loaded and all that, there were a few redundancies which were healthy in striker-fired to disassemble/no mag-disconnect pistols to reassure the gun is safe. One of these was to not have the mag (loaded or unloaded) near any gun you are clearing/cleaning/safety checking/observing/handing to another person, etc. The other was to rack the slide a few times before and after you check to make sure the chamber is empty.

Well if you are about to strip a Glock, XD, Five-Seven, Kahr, or some other striker fired pistol like them (I own all of the above), you have to pull the trigger beforehand. When I do this, I don't want a mag of which I cannot see is loaded or not in the well...Just before I strip my guns, I often rack the slide one last time to quadruple-check the gun is not loaded. If a mag is in it and there is a tiny chance it is loaded, such as in a gun I have not fired in a while that I have ready for use, yet forgotten it was in that condition, then I could very well be chambering a round. It has happened to me one time when I accidentally chambered my Glock 19 which I thought for sure was unloaded, but wasn't. I was pulling back the slide, expecting it to stay back. It didn't and this alerted me that something was not right. I quintuple checked it and all was fine. Of course, I have a Beretta 92 which often will not hold the slide back on empty with the crappy PB mags that came with it unless I am forceful on the rack. In a human moment, without redundancies I could conceivably perform an error and put a hole in the bedroom floor.

Now that I have another gun with a mag disconnect, one of the redundancies is removed. I have to detrain myself from keeping the mags away from my gun when I am performing functions on it, other than firing it.
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:20 PM
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Sorry, maybe I'm stooopid but I don't have to have a magazine anywhere near my M&P with the disconnect to strip it. If I did have to insert the magazine to dry fire the weapon, I think I could be sure the magazine was empty before inserting it in the weapon and then rack the slide a couple times to be sure a round has not mysteriously appeared. For one thing the magazine will hold the action open, and I can easily see the chamber and the magazine verifying there is no round anywhere near the firing pin.

I just completely fail to see how a magazine disconnect is dangerous or trains me to be dangerous. Sorry, just don't see it.
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:58 AM
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You don't have to see it...you have a choice of having it if you like it, whereas I don't because I live in a state that loves to turn gimmicks into requirements. In my opinion, there are more than a few things that can increase the chances of ND when a mag has to be inserted in some of my guns and not others for disassembly procedures to begin. I don't like mag disconnects for that reason mostly, but not exclusively. But lucky me...I am forced to have them now.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:15 AM
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Still waiting for someone to point me to an instance of a mag disconnect causing someone to be injured. Other than competition, where you have to click on an empty changer to show it's empty, I simply do not see the drawback to them. Plenty of people HAVE been saved by them.
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Old 02-02-2011, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
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In my opinion, there are more than a few things that can increase the chances of ND when a mag has to be inserted in some of my guns and not others for disassembly procedures to begin.

I don't understand what you are saying, I don't think you own an M&P with the mag disconnect. You are giving people the wrong impression here.

You DO NOT need a magazine in the gun to strip it. There is NO SAFETY ISSUE at all to the mag disconnect.

Perhaps your other weapons require the mag in them, the M&P does not.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:38 PM
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You don't need a mag in it to strip it. But you do need a mag to release the firing pin. In most of my guns, you need to release the striker to strip the gun. In the case of my Five-Seven, you need to release the striker with an empty mag before you strip it. I have grown up with striker-fired pistols where you have to release the striker from its cocked position before you strip them. Before doing so, one of the redundant steps is to take the mag out while safety checking and pulling the trigger to release the striker from its cocked position. Having the mag out while safety checking and pulling the trigger reduced the chances of ever accidentally (unbeknownst to me) loading the chamber with a live round. Now that I have to leave a mag in, this extra precaution of not having a mag anywhere near the gun (loaded or unloaded) is removed. I have to undo what I was taught to do and have been doing for years. Now that mag disconnects are required in California, I am being forced to deal with them, whereas others in the free parts of the country have a choice as to whether or not they can have them.

When having to deal with the disconnect in S&W's may not be dangerous, it certainly is when dealing with other guns that are not designed with it if I have to pull the trigger to disassemble them. Having the mag nowhere near the gun was always part of the safety process. Pulling the trigger is part of the disassembly process. Not wanting to have a potential to mix up the take down procedures of different striker fired guns where I have always had to pull the trigger to begin the process, I would like to have the choice to not be forced to buy guns with a mag disconnect.

I hope I'm not being confusing. I really am trying to explain my preferences versus what is a new reality. I will eventually get used to more and more guns with mag disconnects...I just personally would prefer that none of mine had it.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:27 PM
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I prefer my pistols fire with a round in the chamber regardless if a magazine is there as well.

-- Chuck
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:36 PM
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I prefer my pistols fire with a round in the chamber regardless if a magazine is there as well.

-- Chuck
I agree with that as well.
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Old 02-04-2011, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seed View Post
You don't need a mag in it to strip it. But you do need a mag to release the firing pin. In most of my guns, you need to release the striker to strip the gun.

I hope I'm not being confusing. I really am trying to explain my preferences versus what is a new reality. I will eventually get used to more and more guns with mag disconnects...I just personally would prefer that none of mine had it.
This is an M&P forum, and the M&P does not need a magazine to be stripped. In fact, technically you do not need a magazine to fire the weapon, all you need to do is trip the mag disconnect with a pen or something simple like that if you really want to fire the pin.

But yes, this is very confusing because there is no reason to fire the pin to disassemble the M&P, therefore complaining about the mag disconnect on an M&P being dangerous to strip the weapon is confusing.

Maybe on other weapons, yes.
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