Hi, long time lurker in need of assistance sorting out M&P options….. I spent yesterday driving to all the gun shops within reasonable driving distance in hopes of holding a CZ P06 thinking that if it felt “right” in my hand I could then order one from the CZ custom shop with trigger work done and the sight system of my choice. No one had one in stock.

I wasn’t interested in another striker fired polymer frame pistol but one of the gun shop guys told me I should at least check out the “feel” of a full sized M&P…. I have to admit it really did feel “right” in my hand. The gun I tried had a safety…. not a Pro version and the trigger did suck .

I’m 55 and need all the help I can get seeing the front sight these days. The primary role I’m looking to fill is something lighter to carry around my property for 4 legged type varmints and mostly slow fire bull’s-eye type shooting.

I don’t know if I would be satisfied with a Pro model trigger or not. The only fiber optic pistol I have is fast to get on target but not so hot for precision slow fire groups. … Does the FO sight that comes on the 5” pro model have a smaller diameter rod that would work well for slow fire bull’s eye target or varmint hunting?

I’ve been a 1911 shooter for a long time…. I have a hunch that I’d end up wanting an APEX completion weight trigger on a pistol that had a manual safety…. None of the M&P Pro models come with a manual safety option though correct?

I’m pretty sure I’d end up wanting to try a .357 Sig barrel at some point as well…. I’m guessing it would be easier to find one in a standard length barrel rather than a 5”… also correct? Same issue with holster selection?

I guess it all boils to I really did like the “feel” of the M&P even though I wasn’t looking for another striker fire polymer gun. I live in the very NW corner of NC… plan A would be to find a forum member close to zip 28631 that has a Pro model M&P or a CZ P06 that I could check out….

I’ve tried to lay out my intended uses…. General comments or suggestions would be welcomed.

Thanks,

John

I don't think you'd like the M&P.
The FO is 1.5mm, which is the most popular size now. It should not affect your precision shooting at all. No striker fired gun will match a tuned 1911 singe-action trigger. I think you will hate the CZ trigger, custom work and all. It is not a single-action 1911 trigger, period.

You sound like a perfect candidate for a lightweight 1911 from S&W.
A scandium frame gun weighs only 30oz and you can buy the sights and trigger you want already on the gun from S&W and not spend the rest of your life trying to "fix it."
SW1911 E Series - Smith & Wesson

By the way, I have both a S&W M&P Pro and a S&W 1911 Pro.

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Science plus Art

Did you try a CZ P07? It has the Omega trigger/safety that can switched from TDA to SA.

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NRA Certified Instructor

remat457, yes the P07 was the only CZ I found in stock.... didn't know that about the trigger.... I was very disappointed about how that pistol felt in my hand though...

OKFCO5, thanks for your feedback... you're right I'm sure about no trigger being as sweet as a well tuned 1911. I have a Glock 26 that I had to get the 3.5 pound connector installed on before I was able to shoot the kind of on paper groups I was hoping for. Problem is this was bought as a concealed carry gun and now I rarely carry it in town due to the light trigger....

I'm very pleased with my Kahr PM 9 and it's long but very smooth trigger pull. I shoot it surprisingly well and it is my primary in town self defense gun.

I have also been breaking in an FN P9. At first the trigger was not so great but now with several hundred rounds through it the pull has smoothed up pretty well and I'm hitting better with it too. Still waiting for the holster I ordered for that gun to show up so I can give it some roving around field use.

I was surprised that you did not care for the custom work on the CZ triggers. They sure have a bunch of loyal online fans.... but like I said this week was the first time I ever even picked up a CZ pistol.

I have another specific M&P question. I held both the full sized .45 and the .40.... The gun shop guy said he couldn't feel any real difference in the grip size. I'm not sure if it was due to different grips inserts on the two pistols I held but the .40 seemed a better fit for my hand.... Have others here found the .40 to have a noticeable more compact grip too?

Thanks,

John

40cal CZ's don't have the reliability record of their 9mm counterparts. The M&P was designed as a 40cal.

45 has a slightly larger frame than the 9,40 and 357.

Better trigger is solved with Apex parts or will improve quite a bit with use.

I did about half a trigger job following Burwell's instructions on his website. Google Burwell trigger job.

I didn't do any sear work .

Just polished on the trigger bar.

I rounded the edge of the firing pin block plunger.

Mine has an excellent pull now.

Replaced front sight with a Hi-Viz green fiber optic.

Big help for old eyes.

Good Luck

I don't think you'd go wrong with the M&P, although if you had your heart set on the CZ, you will always have that lingering thought until you at least try one.

Some practical shooters whose blogs I read recommend a fiber optic front sight with a wider rear notch. I've played with fiber optics but still prefer iron/tritiums. I'm 47 and tried out the XS Big Dot a few years back. I found it was a harder sight system to line up accurately with a handgun and to me, was harder to pick up on a big white ball than a Heinie serrated front blade. When you're shooting bulls eyes, you'd either have to establish point of aim/point of impact with a fiber optic dot, or ignore the glowing dot and use the traditional "top of the front sight" for point of aim. Some of the fiber optics front sights are relatively narrow and harder to see.

I have found that a serrated front sight on a semi auto pistol is still the best sight for me. Heinie and 10-8 Performance offer serrated front sights, both tritium and gold bead (10-8) in conjunction with the option of wider rear notches. Their front sight widths are .125 inches. Warren offers a fiber optics front sight that is serrated, but it is only .115 inches wide. That may or may not work for you.

My Glocks wear Heinie Straigh 8s. The serrated front sight is easier for me to pick up than other brands. My M&P 45 still wears the Novak style night sights, but will either get fitted with Heinies or 10-8s in the future.

Anyway, ain't if fun trying to accessorize your handgun.....

Cz P01 & P06 models have terrible barrel flip hard gun to shoot
had em - sold em
My M&P's are more fun to shoot - got introduced to them when I shot a friends M&Pc 40 - shot like a dream - as far as 1911's didn't want one when I was in the army don't want one now - shoot with people who shoot them - all have top end models & are good shooters. constanly fumbling with them - jams and so on .
Get a Pro best bargain out there mine has been flawless .
FYI

Thanks guys. Is there any reason a PRO model could not accept the APEX trigger components? Plan A would be to buy a PRO and be satisfied but it would be a bummer to discover that the PRO's trigger was designed in a way that didn't allow for a later upgrade...

I was pretty sure the .40's grip was a better fit for my hand than the 45's did.... I'm thinking that I will slow down and wait until I can find someone locally that has a M&P that I can shoot some before making another pistol purchase.

I just placed a $600.00 + ammo order with Ammo To Go. They had some great pricing on both 9 MM and .45 ACP range ammo. That burned up the "got a new gun itch that needs scratching" budget for the next few Months....

I'm still really struck by how "right" the .40 M&P felt in my hand. S&W got the grip geometry just right IMO.

You can put the APEX kit in a Pro. I chose not to in mine; not that much difference for me (shooting both, not sitting and playing with them).
Something you should be aware of if your main use is "slowfire bullseye shooting" as you indicated in the OP.
As accurate as my S&W Pro is--plenty good for IDPA and USPSA--it is not as accurate as a typical bullseye gun. You can get 3" at 25yds fairly easily, but you're not going to get the 1" accuracy of a bullseye gun. Any of my old bullseye revolvers will shoot 1" at 25 yd with their favorite ammo if I can hold it still. I have one 1911 that will do it, but none of the other semi-autos, and certainly none of the "combat tupperware."

You pays your money and you makes your choices....

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Science plus Art

I have enjoyed some pretty extensive use of the CZ range of pistols over the years, from basic service weapons to specialised race pistols.

Most models have found always can benefit from some extra work done to tidy them up for everyday use, reliability and other issues of personal taste.

Personally think the M&P stands head and shoulders above that of the CZ in design, contruction and is definately more user friendly.

But its all down to personal choice and costs... always best to try all options before making decision if possible!

[QUOTE=
As accurate as my S&W Pro is--plenty good for IDPA and USPSA--it is not as accurate as a typical bullseye gun. You can get 3" at 25yds fairly easily, but you're not going to get the 1" accuracy of a bullseye gun. Any of my old bullseye revolvers will shoot 1" at 25 yd with their favorite ammo if I can hold it still. I have one 1911 that will do it, but none of the other semi-autos, and certainly none of the "combat tupperware."

You pays your money and you makes your choices....[/QUOTE]


Thanks for the reality check... I was pretty set on not wanting another polymer pistol for this slot in the collection. I have to say that even after a full week the "feel" of the .40 M&P is still kind of haunting me though....

My 55 year old eyes couldn't shoot better than a 3" group with any kind of iron sights these days no matter what kind of corrective lens system I might use.... however I did notice that at least one company is now milling slides to accept miniature red dot systems...

I have a Mountain Gun in .45 Colt set up with an Ultra Dot that I can still hit well with.... I'm not sure how even a top shelf red dot would hold up to slamming back and forth with a slide mount though...

I'll dig up the link I found and post it in this thread.... cost of machine work plus the suggested sight was at least $200.00 above the base cost of a stock pistol.... Spending that kind of $ on a gun whose main roll would be informal backyard shooting and woods roaming would be kind of like the guy who buys the $50000.00 red convertible in a midlife attempt to regain his youth.... but still, if it is a practical system it sure would be fun...

Is there much chance that after market barrels <start with a .40 and add 9 MM and maybe .357 Sig> would bring 25 yard accuracy to 2" or less?

Anyway, thanks again.... I'll go track down the link I was talking about.

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