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Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols All Variants of the Smith & Wesson M&P Auto Pistols


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Old 05-21-2011, 04:42 PM
Florida Shooter Florida Shooter is offline
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Default M&P FS 9mm - With or without thumb safety

After deliberately seeking the M&P with thumb safety, I have read enough to consider having one without the safety.

Here's one of my posts on other web sites:

My deer rifle had a thumb safety that was engaged until I was ready to shoot. My over/under shotgun also had a thumb safety on the tang that I was condition to slide off just as the gun was coming up for a shot - and in woods and brush of Vermont,'those shots had to be fast. That said, I am seeing a distict difference in this case. The pistol will be carried concealed either IWB or OWB depending on clothing and circumstances at 3:30 more or less [never AIWB] for self defense. It will be in the holster for carry or in the hand when it's needed for its intended purpose. In the holster, the internal safety devices will be sufficient. In my hand for self defense a thumb safety is one more thing that just might mess up my presentation and firing of the pistol - scary, considering the need would be to stop a BG and save my own life or the life of another innocent person. Also, the good stuff than can be done to the inyards would be curtailed in part in the TS version. Therefore, I have just convinced myself that it is in my own best interests to get the M&P9 FS WITHOUT the TS.

Here is a post on Pistol Training Forum by an experienced person whose nom de plume is DocGKR, and your input on it will be appreciated:

"Imagine being mugged, hit over the head, and stunned; bad guy pulls out your pistol, but does not remove safety and so pistol fails to go off as he sits there squeezing the trigger...I personally saw this happen to someone.

You are at home and set your pistol down for a brief moment as you begin to change and your child who was hiding reaches up and grabs it....I personally have seen this occur once as well.

You are carrying IWB and your jacket zipper catches on the trigger as your attention wonders a brief second while re-holstering after a stressful encounter--boom...I have seen this happen to someone as well. This can be particularly tragic with AIWB..., [when a zipper catches on a trigger]
"

Your own candid views and reasoning on this subject will be very much appreciated.

Last edited by Florida Shooter; 05-21-2011 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 05-21-2011, 06:46 PM
Brass Nuggets Brass Nuggets is offline
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Very interesting thoughts, I’ve struggled on this for a time, I bought a Sig226… because it’s double action. I don’t rely on thumb safety, so only my 1911’s have them.

I guess it really comes down to purpose…and need… So I make sure what’s loaded is pointed in the right direction, and what’s idle and loaded meets the intended purpose.

Just my thoughts….
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Old 05-21-2011, 07:04 PM
crofoot629 crofoot629 is offline
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I’m a big fan of frame mounted thumb safeties.

With a bare minimum of training their operation is seamless. If you really don’t train enough to be able to reliably disengage and reengage a frame mounted thumb safety, then perhaps you really, really need one?

Many “tier 1 operators” choose 1911’s as their handguns. So I certainly don’t think we can realistically say thumb safeties are a “bad” design in themselves.

It’s a training issue if you can’t reliably operate your thumb safety. Now I know all of us don’t have the time or money to attend Thunder Ranch, or some other high quality firearms training school, but a thumb safety is not rocket science.

BTW I had a chance to T&E a group of M&P’s of different calibers and sizes while I was still employed at the Sheriff’s Office. I was quite impressed with the S&W M&P’s. We however choose to stay with Glocks. I liked the Smiths and wanted one in 45 acp with thumb safety. I’ve been gone long enough now that I don’t know how the 4th generation Glock 22’s are working out. It was sort of a dirty little secret, but many of our older Glock 22’s and 23’s would not run reliably with lights attached.

Emory

Last edited by crofoot629; 05-21-2011 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:40 PM
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If the M&P safety stayed in place like any 1911s I would like it. But it doesn't. A flea fart can knock it on or off. I have it on my M&P-45 and I will have it removed.
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Old 05-22-2011, 10:32 AM
The Sarge The Sarge is offline
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The frame mounted safety is a personal choice. Some like them, some don't. You can always carry in the fire position and use the safety as an option. Food for thought: There is no documentation of a police officer being killed because he could not get his safety off. There are documented cases where a pistol safety saved an officer's life. Above all, use what works best for you. Bill
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:14 AM
OKFC05 OKFC05 is offline
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"Those dang guns are dangerous!"
My Grandmother was right, and no amount of "safeties" or mechanical solutions will change that. So if you're looking for the "safe solution", forget it. No gun is any safer than the person holding it, who must keep in mind that "A safety is a mechanical device that can fail." ( I have my Hunter Safety students chant this aloud)

A 1911 must have a thumb safety due to its design.
The only reason an M&P has a thumb safety is for department requirements or personal perference. It is purely an add-on that keeps the trigger from moving, but with the other 3 safeties present in the M&P design (which are all released by pulling the trigger) the gun passes all drop and safety tests without a thumb safety.

If you keep an M&P in a fitted kydex holster, don't point the gun at anything you're not willing to destroy, and keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire, you don't need a thumb safety.

If you want a thumb safety, get it--but don't count on it and ignore other safety procedures. On my range, sweeping somebody (including yourself) with a muzzle and saying "It's OK, the safety is on" will get you removed.
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:19 AM
mkygod mkygod is offline
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I was hell bent on getting an M&P9c with the safety as well, but alas I wasn't able to because ironically, the version w/ the safety wasn't on the safe handgun list for California.
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Old 05-23-2011, 03:41 PM
EPWrangler EPWrangler is offline
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Default Kali right?

What Kalifornia finally did something right? No thumb safety? Cool! Even the left coast can be right sometimes.
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:00 PM
M88 M88 is offline
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I like the way the safeties sit on S&W 1911's but not as much as the M&P's. Have you tried shooting on with it to see how it feels when you shot it.
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:49 PM
Florida Shooter Florida Shooter is offline
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No, that's not currently available to me - but I have handled one for sale at retail. One of the huge problems with the thumb safety on the FS M&P is that it's not compatible with a decent draw, for me. The safeties on my deer rifle and my shotgun were RIGHT THERE, and were no trouble at all.

I might feel differently about the thumb safety on the M&P if it were placed as ergonomically as they were on my deer rifle and upland shotgun - but they're not. The time I'd be most likely to use the safety would be in re-holstering. That would be peace of mind. But in other circumstances, not so much.

At this point, I am almost - ALMOST - committed to the non-thumb safety from the get go.
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Old 05-24-2011, 04:04 AM
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SMMAssociates SMMAssociates is offline
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EPWrangler:

IMHO, CA rejected the thumb safety version because it can't include a Hilary Lock....

The thumb safety, which nominally protects the shooter, is much less important than the lock which is supposed to protect the children, and, of course, the Criminals and Terrorists....

Florida Shooter:

I've got three M&P's - one, a 40C, with a thumb safety. I carry that one around the house. However, I'm a 1911 guy, and actually miss the thumb safety, even though it's quite wrong, which is why I ended up with one. (It's actually the frame from a 9C that turned up with one.)

That said, I'm more than used to it....

If you're not trained up in the use of the thumb safety, it's probably a bad idea, and since the gun is almost safe enough without it, no matter what, presuming you don't manage to get your shirt caught in the trigger guard, it's probably best to NOT have it.

My basic rule is that everything I carry has to work more or less the same way. If a component is missing (like a thumb safety), it's far better to be confused by missing it when you try to thumb it off than to try to remember to do it at all if it's unfamiliar, or, Heaven Forbid, have to remember that it goes the other way.... (All three of my "backwards" safety guns - two S&W's and a Walther - are safe enough with the safety off, as long as you're careful to de-cock them before holstering.)

Guess the point, in your case, though, is that you're not used to a thumb safety on a handgun. Other than the "stuff in the trigger guard" issues, there's really no good reason to put one on an M&P.... IMHO, that "distracted" and you might forget to turn it on anyway....

(I trained to snap off the safety during presentation, before the finger goes into the trigger guard, and then snap it back on about as quickly as the finger comes out. That's the only way to really be safe with the design. Very easy to train up to, though. One of the reasons I put the thumb safety on the carry 40C is so I wouldn't "break training" when on the range. If you're going to carry it, you have to shoot it....)

Also, if you don't mind some funny square holes in the plastic (S&W will send you some plugs if you ask nice), it takes about five minutes (OK, ten for me ) to remove the thumb safety, with no effect at all on the rest of the gun. Just don't lose the parts....

The only real downside to the thumb safety guns, at this time, with respect to the way the gun functions, is that Apex doesn't have a RAM kit for those models - the sear block is a bit too different, and the RAM components actually use the hole where the Hilary Lock goes (or was ). S&W will also send you a plug for that hole, too....

SO, given that Randy has promised a RAM kit for the thumb safety guns someday, there's probably no downside to going with an M&P with the thumb safety since you can always remove it. Unless you really want a Hilary Lock....

It's considered bad Karma to remove a manufacturer-supplied safety device from a carry gun, but unless you're an LEO, it probably won't matter. I wasn't here, I didn't say this....

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