I bought two 14 round .45ACP magazines. Try as I may, I can only get 13 rounds in each. It is just not possible to get that extra 14th round in! These are S&W brand magazines and they have the 14th round indicator hole.

Any thoughts?

They have heavy springs. Let them set with 13 till they "take a set" or
try mag loader. Mine was hard at first.

I just got a new 14 round mag, and your post made me try to load it up for the first time. I could only get 13 in at first. Then with 13 in it I rapped the rear of the mag on the palm of my hand. All the odd # counting holes showed a cartridge and the evens were dark. The 14th then went in without a problem. Must have something to do with how the rounds line up inside the mag tube....

__________________
Tom
"Panem et Circenses"

Mine are really hard to get the 14th round in as well (I have two). I only load mine to 13 for a couple of reasons. I have seen some reports of the mag spring bending when loaded to full capacity, and the only people that make springs for these mags are S&W. I replaced all my baseplates with 10-8 performance baseplates for the 14 round mags and it made a world of difference in how they fell and handle. I am sure you will be able to load up the 14th round after leaving it loaded with 13 for a short time, it is a fairly common issue.

Thanks for the info!

From a reliability standpoint, you really only want to put 13rds in them anyway.


C4

__________________
S&W M&P Armorer
S&W LE Distr.

Really? and why would that be?

Not enough space at the bottom of the mag. Causes the rounds to put to much pressure against the feed lips (binding them).

Same goes with Glock mags. They should be down loaded by one (for optimal reliability).


C4

__________________
S&W M&P Armorer
S&W LE Distr.

Another issue with the mag loaded to the full 14 rounds is seating the mag when the slide is forward. It takes a very hard slam to get the magazine to seat and catch properly. Speed reloads with the Smith 14 round and most all Glock magazines are much more reliable and easy when downloaded by one.

Never had this happen with a Glock or any other magazine fed weapon (including my M16 and everything jammed that). If Smith, Glock, or any other manufacturer intended for you to download a mag, they would have done so by making the capacity 1 less. I never understood this line of thinking along with the whole mag-spring wear out debate. My 2 cents.

It generally shows itself when doing tactical reloads (closed bolt or the slide is forward). The mag will not properly lock.

All gun manufacturers think that you will only be inserting their mag when the bolt or slide is locked back (emergency reload). Remember that gun companies typically know very little about how to run the guns they make.

Fully loaded mags apply a lot of pressure to the feed lips of a mag. If we are talking about a USGI AR/M16 mag, those lips will spread very quickly, which is the leading cause of double feeds (type 3 malfunctions).

The springs used by most gun companies are cheap SS springs. They only have about 10% of their life left when new. So keeping them compressed for long periods of time weakens then faster.

I don't know how much training you have gone to, but the instructors that I train with (Vickers and Hackathorn) always advise to download Glock mags, 14rd 45 M&P mags and AR/M16 mags. Whether you want to believe me or not, people with far more experience than you and I combined believe it is a good idea. Might want to re-think you opinion.





C4

__________________
S&W M&P Armorer
S&W LE Distr.

I'm not trying to start a measuring contest here, what I am saying is that I can't wrap my head around that philosophy as I have not experienced issues due to this. I have Beretta mags that have been loaded (to max) for the past 3 years except for when I claean them after range trips. There are no issues. I had a Glock 19 for 2 years that was loaded to max until the day I traded it, again no issues. It's been a while since I picked up an M16, so I won't comment on their current state. I've had plenty of training in the military and on the job and YES, there are people in both camps that subscribe to the same mantra as Larry Vickers and say "Always download". I've had 2 range instructors argue over the issue and came to the conclusion that what works for him works for him and what works for me works for me.

As for leaving a mag loaded and this damaging the spring, this is also a matter of discussion. Cycling the spring is what wears it out not compression or rest. Best way I heard it compared was think of your car. Most have 4 coil springs (2 front, 2 rear). If you left those springs compressed for for 20 years, they'd wear out right? But what wears them out quicker? Constant compression or driving over rough terrain (causing them to cycle)? What will destroy you're mag springs in a hurry is stretching them. That's a lesson I learned the hard way a long time ago!

Since my M&P .45 is still in the land of shipping to my LGS, I haven't been able to test the 14 round theory with it yet. So for the time being, I'll agree to disagree.

Its kind of like riding a motorcyle. Its not IF you are going to get into an accident, but when.

So you might not have experienced any malfunctions with your guns OR you have and just attributed it to something OTHER than the mags.

"Oh, the gun is dirty, Oh I forgot to lube it, Oh I limp wristed it, Oh I did this or that."

People don't often understand that the cause of the malfunction is directly do to a worn out mag.

Talking with engineers that manufacturer springs, they tell me that a spring JUST SITTING in the magazine is losing power. This is why EVERY MANUFACTURER on the planet advises you to change out your mag springs every 3-5 years. This is commonly referred to as a "clue."

Again, the MAIN issue with downloading a mag is so you can perform a tactical reload (as there just isn't enough room at the bottom of the mag to seat it with the slide or bolt forward). When you add in stress, then it becomes even harder.

C4

__________________
S&W M&P Armorer
S&W LE Distr.

On the contrary, I have experienced mag related failures on several occassions. That's why I periodically replace my springs like you mentioned, its just routine maintenance and the cost of trusting a mass produced mechanical object to defend your life. As I mentioned, I'm just not a fan of downloading and haven't experienced any issues that say I should do otherwise. As to a tactical reload with a full mag, I've never had a problem getting it done (on a practice range). Thankfully, I've never had to do it with someone shooting back.

The M&P 14 round mag that I have will take 14 rounds without a problem. Beyond that, also as I said my M&P .45 is still in the land of shipping (2.5 weeks after order) so I have not had a chance to test your theory or mine. However, when it finally shows up, I do intend to run the ever loving snot out of it before I use it to replace my current duty and carry guns. If I am wrong about the practice of downloading the mag, I will happily report such and eat the appropriate crow for not heeding your advice.

And you are right about the springs losing power over time if they sit one way or another, that we can agree on. I have always used the car analogy when explaining that (usually to those less experienced than myself) it is cycling and over stretching that will kill your mags the fastest. Better to say it this way: if the pistol was designe to fire x rounds before "wear out", the mag was designed to cycle the amount.

C4: Thanks for posting this. I have noticed this phenom of a tight magazine and just prefer to carry with one empty space in the magazine. This may be modified on some guns with magazines designed with a little extra space when at capacity. That is, they seem to almost take another round so the magazine will seat properly with a full magazine and the slide forward. If it is tight, I know to remove one cartridge. I notice this on some mags for the 1911 and my Sig 239. However, it is fine to load a pistol with a full magazine and chamber it, leaving one empty space in the magazine. Your point of tactical reload makes a lot of sense. Some folks only think of reloading when their pistol goes dry.