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  #51  
Old 08-09-2017, 10:30 PM
njl njl is offline
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Last night I tried reproducing the problem at home, doing slide lock reloads with one of the mags I'd used at the match loaded with 9 rounds of the ammo from the match and the top round being a dummy (same 147gr Montana Gold bullet, but no powder or primer). I slapped mags into the G19 until my hand was sore, and couldn't make it happen.

I tried again tonight using an older mag that I know has a worn/shorter spring, and again, slapped the mag into the gun until my hand was sore...still couldn't get it to auto-close on an empty chamber.

I don't know what I'm doing differently...but it's done it 4 times at the range after live firing to slide lock.
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  #52  
Old 08-09-2017, 11:59 PM
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Could it be that your mag loading stroke was bringing the gun DOWN onto the mag vs. pushing the mag UP into the gun?

I reload with the gun at chin height so I can see it and the target. The gun stays still. I rip the empty mag out with my off hand, drop it or stow it, retrieve the loaded mag and smack it up into the gun. The slide auto-forwards immediately. I acquire a two handed firing grip and go back to work.

If the slide does not auto-forward, my off-hand (Left) thumb hits the stop tab to release it on the way to acquiring the firing grip.

I use the hand-over sling shot method for all malfunction procedures.
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  #53  
Old 08-10-2017, 03:06 AM
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I would concentrate more on the slide catch lever itself as was said in a previous post. It's not the magazine springs or followers that have an effect on disengaging the lever...only pushing it up on an empty mag. Once the follower engages the catch, the pressure from the recoil spring keeps it open until released onto either no magazine or one with rounds compressing the follower so as not to engage the slide lock lever again. The area on the back of the lever where it locks into the slide is probably worn so the mating surfaces aren't creating enough friction to stay latched when slamming a new mag in place. This can be further exacerbated by a weak slide lock caused by a weak magazine spring or a follower binding up. What I mean is if the follower only sort of half way engages the slide lock by not sending the lever fully into the receiving pocket on the slide then the lock up is already weak. Then if you slam a mag in, that lever is gonna pop right out the socket.

So, get a new slide stop lever, disassemble and clean your mags and lightly lube the followers then check your silde stop engagement by inserting an empty magazine and pulling back the slide slowly until it clicks into place. It should shoot up into the notch in the slide with a nice solid click. Then do the same again only this time pull the slide back as fast as you can.

If you still have problems after that then check the notch on the slide where the lever catches and maybe do what one of the other posters talked about with roughing that up just a touch with some 400 grit or something like that. I'd be willing to bet you won't have to go that far though.

Oh, and also make sure that no oil or grease is on the mating surfaces between the stop and the slide.
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  #54  
Old 08-10-2017, 10:22 PM
ThrowinRocks ThrowinRocks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalDep View Post
Really...I wonder why, then, they made it external, protruding, and ambidextrous.
As stated above. Slide stop not a Slide release.

All of my 1st gens do it. I would consider it a feature but if you can't keep your finger off the trigger when reloading then it becomes a dangerous operation.
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  #55  
Old 08-10-2017, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ThrowinRocks View Post
As stated above. Slide stop not a Slide release.

All of my 1st gens do it. I would consider it a feature but if you can't keep your finger off the trigger when reloading then it becomes a dangerous operation.
If you can't keep your finger off the trigger while reloading, EVERY reloading operation is dangerous.
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  #56  
Old 08-10-2017, 10:45 PM
ThrowinRocks ThrowinRocks is offline
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Yeah, Sorry I didn't put EVERY in my reply. LOL
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  #57  
Old 08-10-2017, 11:00 PM
njl njl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CB3 View Post
Could it be that your mag loading stroke was bringing the gun DOWN onto the mag vs. pushing the mag UP into the gun?
It's possible. It's probably a combination of upward force on the mag and downward with the pistol. The easy solution, which I'll practice at the range and use for future matches, is use 10rd mags for reloads...but I'm still curious to figure out why this has only happened so far at the range when using the downloaded 15rd mags.
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  #58  
Old 08-12-2017, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by LOBONCA View Post
Were the guns designed this way or is it just a fluke?

Personally I like it and I can count on both guns auto forwarding. Makes things very fast on reload. What is your opinion?
Fluke or not, I always liked it on my M&P's as it makes for a faster reload, one less step.
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  #59  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:32 AM
TX-Dennis TX-Dennis is offline
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Too bad the magazines don't click in securely with a gentle push and a click that sounds like high quality machinery - like my Taurus does.



I'm kidding, of course . . . but the Taurus magazine release does feel (and sound) elegantly well made when the magazine seats with a gentle push. It's unlike any other pistol I own in that regard - Smith, Ruger, CZ, Sig, TriStar, Bersa all require more force and sometimes auto forward if enough force is used.
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  #60  
Old 08-17-2017, 02:05 AM
SoCalDep SoCalDep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrowinRocks View Post
As stated above. Slide stop not a Slide release.

All of my 1st gens do it. I would consider it a feature but if you can't keep your finger off the trigger when reloading then it becomes a dangerous operation.
...And as I've said many times on this forum before...

You can call it what you want. It is a slide release. It releases the slide. It was designed to do it regardless of what some lawyer wrote in a manual and regardless of what some internet commando says.

The auto-forward is not a feature, the pistol was not "designed" purposefully to allow this, it encourages bad habits and it was disliked enough that it was one of the major changes to the 2.0 version.

If you can't keep your finger off the trigger while reloading then holding a pistol is a dangerous operation. (And-- Now I see CB3 beat me to that observation)

Last edited by SoCalDep; 08-17-2017 at 02:12 AM. Reason: Admitting redundancy
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  #61  
Old 08-17-2017, 07:50 AM
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What does the magazine button do? Why, it STOPS the magazine in the grip as its primary function. It's secondary function is to RELEASE the magazine. It's always called a mag release; never a mag stop.

What does a slide STOP do? Its first function is to lock the slide back, but not permanently. It must also by design be able to RELEASE the slide as it's second function. People argue that this dual function lever can only be called one thing.

Eh. Semantics. No matter your terminology--slide lever; slide lock; slide stop; slide release. All this nomenclature describes the function of the part. I know to which part you are referring. My panties aren't in a bunch.

But it if you call a mag release a mag stop, you are just flat wrong! :-))
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  #62  
Old 08-17-2017, 09:58 AM
ThrowinRocks ThrowinRocks is offline
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IT's called a mag catch. lol

Good thing he knows more about S&W's firearms than S&W does. When you call them to ask for a replacement Slide Stop that's what will be printed on the receipt that you get in the box but I'm not the EXPERT.

SMITH & WESSON - M&P SLIDE STOP ASSEMBLY, GEN 3

Just search this # with Google and see what shows up. 424270000
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  #63  
Old 08-17-2017, 10:23 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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As said, "auto-forward" behavior is quite popular in IDPA where you normally shoot to slide lock. I have seen many shooters so dependent on it that if the gun does not close when the magazine is hard rammed, they will bump the baseplate instead of going to the lever. That usually works, but if it does not, they are really losing time.

I think there are Glock shooters rounding the corner of the stop to promote auto forward, I don't know about MP users.

The SECOND worst thing about the phenomenon is a gun that auto forwards PART of the time and you never know what it is going to take to complete the reload.

The FIRST worst thing is that every once in a while, the slide will get ahead of the top round and close on an empty chamber. Most common in IDPA with 10 rounds in a 17 round magazine and lots of free space for the ammo to bounce up and down in.

S&W probably made the right move on the 2.0, especially in light of the Page 16 warning.
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  #64  
Old 08-17-2017, 08:55 PM
SoCalDep SoCalDep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrowinRocks View Post
IT's called a mag catch. lol

Good thing he knows more about S&W's firearms than S&W does. When you call them to ask for a replacement Slide Stop that's what will be printed on the receipt that you get in the box but I'm not the EXPERT.

SMITH & WESSON - M&P SLIDE STOP ASSEMBLY, GEN 3

Just search this # with Google and see what shows up. 424270000
I know enough to know that S&W designed the part with serrations on the top of it to assist in pushing it down. I know enough to know that Rob Leatham, Ernest Langdon, Larry Vickers, Mike Pannone, Travis Haley, Frank Proctor, and several other KNOWN experts use the part as a slide release - same as on other guns.

But hey - it says it on a parts list and in a manual. I guess if a car company decides to call the gas pedal on a car a squirrel button we are all obligated to oblige their whims and call it that.

The "it's a slide stop not a slide release" argument is so absolutely uneducated, ignorant, and dogmatic as to simply inform me who knows nothing about actually using firearms, or who is so stuck in their ways as to completely ignore reality.
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  #65  
Old 08-17-2017, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCalDep View Post
I guess if a car company decides to call the gas pedal on a car a squirrel button we are all obligated to oblige their whims and call it that
Squirrel button! That's f-ing hilarious!

But, come on guys... this is getting pretty ludicrous. Yes, most companies call it a slide stop, and that is it's primary function but a lot of people use them as a release and it's perfectly acceptable to do so. We're all on the same team! Team guns!

Slide stop people: stop trying to tell people that they shouldn't use it as a release!

Slide release people: stop trying to tell anyone that it's actually called a slide release... It's not. I don't know of any firearm manufacturer that calls it that.

Now go shoot some guns!
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  #66  
Old 08-17-2017, 10:25 PM
KELSW KELSW is offline
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On my Walther PPQ manual it is called a "slide stop" but also says to release slide push down on slide stop to move slide forward . Also says pull slide back from rear serrations . I use my slide stop on my PPQ to release the slide and chamber a round . PPQ has a large "slide stop" .
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  #67  
Old 08-17-2017, 11:36 PM
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This thread is hilarious. I have been to over a dozen combat handgunning schools and have had the slides auto-forward on everything from Glock to Sig to S&W. It happens less on guns that sit in safes most of their lives and happens a lot on guns that actually see training on a regular basis. Has never hindered me in any way shape or form during range time, force on force training or in the field. If the slide auto shuts, I get back to shooting. If it doesn't, I shut it and get back to shooting. I don't Google what the lever is called or check the manual to see what the designer wanted it to do. I get back in the fight and let other people worry about it.
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  #68  
Old 08-18-2017, 10:29 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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Yeah, it's not like slide stop vs slide release is IMPORTANT, like pointing out the difference between "clip" and "magazine." Now that is serious expertise.
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