I just bought a M&P40 Pro (5 inch) and a M&P40C (no safeties/locks, but with night sights). Originally was going to go with a Glock 35 and 27, but due to the issues that have been occurring at a more frequent rate, lately, I figured to put my money into another company (actually saved a little). Always was interested in the M&P (I have a 1006, 629, and a 642 that I just had done in NP3 Plus), but never bit the bullet.

Anyways, I want to get the triggers on both guns similar, as I wanted to do with the Glocks. From what I've read, some say the difference between the Pro models and the standard M&Ps are night and day (the guns are coming in, but due to NJ's stupid one handgun a month law, I likely won't be able to take possession for two months... since I have another to transfer between then and now). Looking around, I saw some recommendations for the Apex Duty/Carry package, as well as the RAM. If I don't go with the package, I likely will do the RAM on both.

What I wanted to know is what makes the Pro trigger so much different? I saw the description on the Performance Center page, and shy of the polishing/tuning, it looks like the sear is the big change. Judging that sending my Compact into S&W will give me a trigger just like my Pro, is this able to be done by myself? I would be installing the Apex kit, if I went that route, and should be able to manage it (did the Apex J-frame kit).

Mainly, I’m looking for a decent trigger pull that is identical between the two guns. Sending the Compact to S&W is probably more costly than the two kits (factoring shipping), so I’m kind of leaning towards Apex. I looked at Brownells and didn’t see anything about a P/C sear, but I also didn’t see the Apex Duty/Carry kit there.

Thanks for any help.

If you want an identical trigger pull all that is necessary is to replace the sear in the compact with a Performance Center sear. Five to ten minute job.

If you want a better trigger pull replace the sears and striker blocks in both guns with Apex parts. That's what I did (even the Pros).

I just sent two M&Ps to the Performance Center to accomplish exactly what you wanted done. One is a 9mm with a 4.25" barrel and the other a 45 with the 4" barrel. Both have full size grips. I asked for the Pro parts and to make both identical in feel. What I got back were two guns I can't tell apart in terms of trigger feel, which in both cases had been dramatically improved. Cost per gun was $110 plus shipping up and back.
Keith

Thanks for the responses.

If I do it myself (at least the Apex parts), I would likely just do the RAM and the Duty/Carry pack. I saw that trigger kit, which I can't remember the name, but it was strictly for competition guns. At least the Compact might be used for off-duty/carry. How is the reset on the Pro models? Is that changed so I wouldn't need to do the RAM?

At the worst, I can hold off on making a decision until they come in. I could dry/live fire them at the range and look for any difference... then go from there.

Reset is no different on the Pro or the standard. Keep in mind that the RAM has caused the "dead trigger" issue in some guns. IMO the "big hole" sear housing would be a necessity before installing a RAM.

Swap the sears. mod the non pro sear according to the Burwell instruction and it will be close to the Pro sear.

Gary:

Seems to me that the DCAEK kit (sear & spring swap), while it doesn't cause the dead trigger, sort of helps it. The RAM device hasn't got much to do with that - it really just moves things into place.

The dead trigger is caused by the top of the sear flopping around during recoil, and not being where it's supposed to be when the rear end of the striker is in place to connect with it.

A stronger spring and bigger plunger seems to fix it, but it's not necessarily a DIY project. Dirt or crud under the sear may be the real cause, but for some reason the Apex mods just seem to make it happen "right now" instead of some thousands of rounds later. Getting the sear out to clean it is a plastic bag job, and a major PITA, too....

For the OP, I would go with the Apex DCAEK and RAM kits for both guns - very easy to install if you're remotely competent (or about a half-hour of bench time for a smith per gun), and while it's a bit of a YMMV thing, it seems to be a big help. The feel on my three is rather like my ancient S&W wheelguns, circa 1968, which was when S&W's inexpensive revolvers had about the best out-of-the-box triggers you could buy.

The RAM kit requires that your sear block have a big hole in it - about a quarter-inch in diameter. Models with a thumb safety don't have it. If you have a Hilary Lock, you'll need to remove that, too, but that version accepts the RAM kit.

Many of the M&P's made after about last October have a newer sear block and spring that will prevent the dead trigger problem. It's pretty much impossible to find out which one you've got without taking it apart, but you'd be doing that to install the DCAEK kit anyway. (Use a plastic bag!)

The original plunger is a microscopic thing. Little bitty tweezers to handle it and it's spring. The newer version is about twice as big. Apex supplies a replacement sear spring for both versions in it's DCAEK kit. While you've got the block out and apart, if you find you've got the older version, you can ship the block to Apex for an upgrade. (About $30 for customers, and not a firearm, so any old traceable shipping method will work - they recommend FedEx or UPS. Turnaround's about a week.)

S&W apparently won't upgrade you until you actually have a problem....

It also appears that you can get new sear block assemblies with the upgrade, but I think only one supplier will "guarantee" that's what you'll get. ("Speed Shooter's Supply" or something like that - I've never dealt with them. My M&P40C trigger went dead immediately, and Randy offered to fix it. Didn't say that there'd be a charge .... This was very early on in the product's life.)

The problem with DIY work on the block is in getting a new plunger, and in enlarging the hole. The block is quite hard, and you have to take a little divot out of the side of the area where the hole is located. A good mill or drill press, the right cutter, and some skill, is required. The former day job (yikes - it's been about 18 years!) had good enough machine tools that I never needed any of that stuff, and I've only missed it a couple times since the job went away. Someday, a drill press, or maybe a Unimat ....

Burwell posted a nice article on DIY work for the rest of the sear and USB issues ("USB" - drop safety plunger, part of the DCAEK kit, too). Worth a read even if you're not going to do it yourself. I personally wouldn't touch the sear, but was tempted to do the USB mod anyway. It's not that difficult, and will make a difference. Apex's version of the USB is allegedly slightly better than hacking the original, but, again, YMMV.

S&W stamps these things out, and the whole thing is designed to loose standards. It tends to work regardless, like the original Browning design for the 1911, but it's an SD gun, not a target piece. Six rounds into a six inch circle at 30'....

There's also a new trigger available from Apex. I would not want one in a carry gun, but if you're going to shoot competition, it's supposed to be nice.

BTW, I've not dealt with Dan Burwell, but have also never heard a complaint. About all that I know is that he's busy, so "when" could be a problem. If a need arose, I'd trust him.

Regards,

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Stu.

SMMAssociates, thanks for the info. Your post was very informative.

I believe the M&Ps are going to be newer. Should be made within the past year, unless they are very old stock. I want to take a look at them when they arrive, so I get the correct RAM. I think the Compact doesn't have any "extras," and I'm pretty sure the Pro doesn't.

I'll probably get the Apex kits. Now, I just got to look at night sights for the Pro so I get the correct POI.

Screwball:

Glad to help....

One thing to worry about with respect to the sear block (i.e., whether or not it needs to be updated) is that these were "slipstreamed".... What that means is that the folks at S&W assembled new guns with whatever parts were laying around. Not the end of the world, but there's no hard "after" date, and the supplies guys (i.e., Brownells, Midway) likewise got whatever was available, too.

I really don't trust Brownells or Midway to know which block they have.... "Speed Shooters", I don't know anything about, unfortunately, but I think they do know what's going on, at least.

The RAM kit moves the tip of the trigger bar to where it has to be to get a reset - and makes for a louder "click" (in some cases). If the trigger return spring breaks, the RAM will take over, although the gun may not reset on the first try. Sort of a "better than nothing" thing. If you're going to put a DCAEK kit in, doing the RAM kit at the same time would be very convenient, but if you don't have a Hilary Lock, there's nothing to it. (Taking out the Hilary Lock is pretty simple, too.)

Regards,

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Stu.