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  #1  
Old 10-27-2011, 12:50 AM
Cliph Cliph is offline
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Default What size Allen wrench for rear sight adjustment?

I want to adjust windage on my M&P 40. What is the proper size Allen wrench to loosen the screw?
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:29 AM
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For my M&P9c, it was 1/16 for the rear sight. Make sure you use imperial inches because there is no metric equivalent that will exactly fit it.
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:39 PM
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I just called Jeff in S&W Customer Support with this question. His answer,"Well, it's less than an 1/8, so it must be 1/32 or 1/64." Where do they get their employees? The answer must be recorded somewhere at S&W. An engineer designed it and someone ordered a bijillion from somewhere. Why is it not in the manual? Is it a trade secret or is S&W Customer Support always this inept?
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Old 10-27-2011, 03:55 PM
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unless a different size is used for different calibers of pistol it is 1/16th. mine is.
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:38 PM
tgmorris99 tgmorris99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliph View Post
I want to adjust windage on my M&P 40. What is the proper size Allen wrench to loosen the screw?
The M&P Armorer's Manual clearly calls it out as 1/16"
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:48 PM
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Default Wow, thanks!

I'm very impressed with both the accuracy and speed of these responses.
I am grateful to you all.
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Old 10-30-2011, 01:08 AM
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You could also just buy a $3 set of allen wrenches and use the one that fits. It doesn't require posting on a message board and calling customer service. Who knows, maybe someday you will use one of the other 8+ sizes that will come with the set on something else. Also remember, "righty tighty, lefty loosey."
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:48 PM
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I bought a set of allens and uses the 1/16th and it didn't fit it was to small and Nxt size up was 2 big. I still haven't got it off , imma try a star Nxt.
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Old 01-25-2014, 07:00 PM
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I had the same problem about the screw so thought I'd check here to see if any info....someone posted here its 1/16 and that it's in the manual. I must have two poor allen wrench sets because one was too big, one was too small from both metric and standard. I actually committed a sin and stripped mine, Ugh. Had to drill it out...then I put in my firesightes/adjustable...and now I realize I don't have the tiniest allen wrench in the world to fit its screw. Guess that's life. Tomorrow, a couple new sets of allen wrenches are coming home. Hope some can relate and I just don't look like a moron. Good luck guys. Oh, the tips on putting slides in freezer....I think worked for removing the sights.
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:26 AM
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1/16 standard worked on all three of my M&P's.
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazdajoe View Post
You could also just buy a $3 set of allen wrenches and use the one that fits. It doesn't require posting on a message board and calling customer service. Who knows, maybe someday you will use one of the other 8+ sizes that will come with the set on something else. Also remember, "righty tighty, lefty loosey."
Like most tools, cheap allen wrenches ain't good and good allen wrenches ain't cheap. You get what you pay for. That's probably why he's having problems.

A good ball-end and case-hardened allen wrench is worth its weight in gold when you have to have one that really works.
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:08 AM
Foofer23 Foofer23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cliph View Post
I just called Jeff in S&W Customer Support with this question. His answer,"Well, it's less than an 1/8, so it must be 1/32 or 1/64." Where do they get their employees? The answer must be recorded somewhere at S&W. An engineer designed it and someone ordered a bijillion from somewhere. Why is it not in the manual? Is it a trade secret or is S&W Customer Support always this inept?
I find myself asking that question every time I get off the phone with them
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonFlyer View Post
Like most tools, cheap allen wrenches ain't good and good allen wrenches ain't cheap. You get what you pay for. That's probably why he's having problems.

A good ball-end and case-hardened allen wrench is worth its weight in gold when you have to have one that really works.
Agree 100%. Everything on our equipment at work is held together with allen head bolts. I use allen wrenches, short and long, ball end and regular. 3/8" allen sockets, short and long, ball end and regular. Also use 1/2" drive impact allen sockets.

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Old 01-26-2014, 10:34 AM
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I'm not a BIG fan of single purpose tool kits but this may be something handy to have, if you don't have the tools and want to ensure you have the right tool for the M&P. IF the tools are a decent quality, it's not INSANELY priced

Smith & Wesson® Armorer Tool : Cabela's
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Old 01-26-2014, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by smokindog View Post
I'm not a BIG fan of single purpose tool kits but this may be something handy to have, if you don't have the tools and want to ensure you have the right tool for the M&P. IF the tools are a decent quality, it's not INSANELY priced

Smith & Wesson® Armorer Tool : Cabela's
Dang, and I just made a Cabela's order yesterday. Coulda saved myself some shipping.
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:54 PM
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Dang, and I just made a Cabela's order yesterday. Coulda saved myself some shipping.
The "Wish List" is your friend. Put it on the wish list and add it next time.
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by WilsonFlyer View Post
Like most tools, cheap allen wrenches ain't good and good allen wrenches ain't cheap. You get what you pay for. That's probably why he's having problems.

A good ball-end and case-hardened allen wrench is worth its weight in gold when you have to have one that really works.
I have good (not cheap) allen (hex) wrenches in various styles including ball-end and case-hardened and they all fit loose in the screw on my M&P Pro. The loose fit and red Loctite from the factory is a problem. I knew that if I just applied brute force I would strip out the screw. I used a propane soldering iron with a tip that just fit into the hex on the screw and heated it up. It came out without any problem when I got it hot enough.

I ordered new screws and they have the same loose fit as the factory.

1/16" is the correct size but be careful and don't strip the nut.
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Old 01-26-2014, 04:15 PM
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A Bondhus brand 1/16" L wrench fits my Pro set screw about as good as it gets.

Brad
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Old 01-26-2014, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlysir View Post
I have good (not cheap) allen (hex) wrenches in various styles including ball-end and case-hardened and they all fit loose in the screw on my M&P Pro.
This is why I keep a set of SAE and Metric Allen wrenches on my bench.

Let's face it, these set screws are not high dollar items. It's highly likely that the quality control is not great for them. So, 100 might be a perfect fit for a 1/16" wrench and the next might not fit at all. Plus you have the problem of "stacking tolerances." If your wrench is on the small side of the tolerance and the set screw is on the large side of the tolerance, the wrench will fit loose.

Often times a metric wrench will fit better when the SAE is loose.
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Old 01-26-2014, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
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A Bondhus brand 1/16" L wrench fits my Pro set screw about as good as it gets.

Brad
That is one of the brands I tried, also older Craftsman, Proto. I tried Ball end, socket hex. I tried everything I had. I did have one Bondhus screw driver type hex that fit a little tighter but not much. They all fit loose. Heat was the solution for me to prevent rounding out the head of the screw. Like others have said, tolerance stack, foreign made screws are part of the problem.

As a side note to this discussion. The screws are #5-40 X 3/16" Cup Point Socket Set Screws. #5 is also called 1/8" by some manufactures.
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Old 01-27-2014, 12:40 PM
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I had a problem getting mine out due to tollerance in machining i guess. None of my 1/16 I had work. Husky, craftsman, dewalt, etc. Ended up just taking the hole top off took the barrel out and wen to ace to find one that fit. I tried 6 different ones before one actualy fitted...
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Old 01-27-2014, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlysir View Post
I have good (not cheap) allen (hex) wrenches in various styles including ball-end and case-hardened and they all fit loose in the screw on my M&P Pro. The loose fit and red Loctite from the factory is a problem. I knew that if I just applied brute force I would strip out the screw. I used a propane soldering iron with a tip that just fit into the hex on the screw and heated it up. It came out without any problem when I got it hot enough.

I ordered new screws and they have the same loose fit as the factory.

1/16" is the correct size but be careful and don't strip the nut.
Wow. Red Loctite on that screw from the factory? Unbelievable! (I believe you.) That's insane. There is absolutely no acceptable reason to put red Loctite on that screw. Period.
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Old 01-27-2014, 02:10 PM
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Very little need for the set screw at all. Once the screw is out, the journey has just begun.
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Old 01-27-2014, 02:39 PM
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Wow. Red Loctite on that screw from the factory? Unbelievable! (I believe you.) That's insane. There is absolutely no acceptable reason to put red Loctite on that screw. Period.
There is some kind of red something on the screw, but I don't believe it's LocTite. The screw on my .45 came loose without much effort and no heat. That wouldn't be possible if it were red LocTite.
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:36 PM
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Very little need for the set screw at all. Once the screw is out, the journey has just begun.
Damned good point.
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:38 PM
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FWIW, the ones on my M&P 22s had blue loctite on them. I haven't seen any sign of any on my other M&Ps. Of course, YMMV.
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:03 PM
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I took the set screw out of my Shield prior to attempting to remove it. It wouldn't budge until I applied heat. I put some penetrating oil down the screw hole and used one of my JMT sight pushers to remove the sight. It's important to use some penetrating oil and let it sit for a little while. Longer is better. The Shield sights are tight, but not any tighter than most 3rd generation S&W autos. Biggest problem is that they have little surface area for a pusher to engage. I developed a special push pin for the JMT pusher just for the Shield. Other brands like MGW that pull on the sight rather than push, must have a Shield specific slide bar to fully engage the Shield sight. I went a different route, utilizing a push pin that sits on the second ledge of the sight. It would be better if it were dead on the bottom, but the second "step" works better in the long haul.
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:18 PM
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There is some kind of red something on the screw, but I don't believe it's LocTite. The screw on my .45 came loose without much effort and no heat. That wouldn't be possible if it were red LocTite.
There was something red visible on the screw on mine. The screw would not budge until I got it very hot, then it came right out with minimal effort. Acted just like red LocTite.

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Old 01-28-2014, 09:47 AM
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Agreed. If it wasn't red Loctite, it was a damn good imitation.
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:55 AM
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1/16. I purchased replacement screws and the wrench at Speed Shooters. The original screw and 1/16 wrench was sloppy and I worried about stripping it.
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Old 01-28-2014, 01:33 PM
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Agreed. If it wasn't red Loctite, it was a damn good imitation.
Maybe mine was just poorly applied. My set screw came loose easily and the sight was easy to move. I guess my .45 is unique in this respect.
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Old 01-29-2014, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by smokindog View Post
I'm not a BIG fan of single purpose tool kits but this may be something handy to have, if you don't have the tools and want to ensure you have the right tool for the M&P. IF the tools are a decent quality, it's not INSANELY priced

Smith & Wesson® Armorer Tool : Cabela's
FYI: I bought this kit from Amazon and the hex wrench in my kit is a 1.5 mm as near as I can tell. It measures .058" and 1.47 mm, for sure it is not 1/16 in. The punches appear to be ok.

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Old 01-29-2014, 07:12 PM
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So are you saying it's not worth the $$ and this isn't quite true?
Smith & Wesson's professional-quality, universal Armorer Tool comes with a variety of punches, pins and wrenches to simplify your gunsmithing tasks. All the tools are contained in the center chamber of the tool and are simple to swap. The tool includes a 1/16" Allen wrench; 1/8" and 1/16" roll-tip and flat-tip punch pins; a slave pin; 1/16" and 1/8" brass flat-tip punch pins; 1/8" brass roll-tip punch pin; 1/32", 1/16" and 1/8" cut-tip punch pins. The tool is secured in a MOLLE-compatible sheath.
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FYI: I bought this kit from Amazon and the hex wrench in my kit is a 1.5 mm as near as I can tell. It measures .058" and 1.47 mm, for sure it is not 1/16 in. The punches appear to be ok.
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Old 01-29-2014, 07:39 PM
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FYI: I bought this kit from Amazon and the hex wrench in my kit is a 1.5 mm as near as I can tell. It measures .058" and 1.47 mm, for sure it is not 1/16 in. The punches appear to be ok.
Let's see, you bought a $35 tool and the allen wrench is off by about .004" and this surprises you?

This is not uncommon with these tiny wrenches. Sometimes they are just made too small or big. You want precision, you need to spend more money.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:04 PM
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What size Allen wrench for rear sight adjustment? What size Allen wrench for rear sight adjustment? What size Allen wrench for rear sight adjustment? What size Allen wrench for rear sight adjustment? What size Allen wrench for rear sight adjustment?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Let's see, you bought a $35 tool and the allen wrench is off by about .004" and this surprises you?

This is not uncommon with these tiny wrenches. Sometimes they are just made too small or big. You want precision, you need to spend more money.
I was just posting information on what I found. The free hex tools I have got with my night sights fit better then this. The hex tool is supposed to be 1/16" but it spins freely in the set screw.

Last edited by curlysir; 01-29-2014 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:09 PM
curlysir curlysir is offline
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What size Allen wrench for rear sight adjustment? What size Allen wrench for rear sight adjustment? What size Allen wrench for rear sight adjustment? What size Allen wrench for rear sight adjustment? What size Allen wrench for rear sight adjustment?  
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Originally Posted by smokindog View Post
So are you saying it's not worth the $$ and this isn't quite true?
Smith & Wesson's professional-quality, universal Armorer Tool comes with a variety of punches, pins and wrenches to simplify your gunsmithing tasks. All the tools are contained in the center chamber of the tool and are simple to swap. The tool includes a 1/16" Allen wrench; 1/8" and 1/16" roll-tip and flat-tip punch pins; a slave pin; 1/16" and 1/8" brass flat-tip punch pins; 1/8" brass roll-tip punch pin; 1/32", 1/16" and 1/8" cut-tip punch pins. The tool is secured in a MOLLE-compatible sheath.
All I am saying is that the 1/16" allen wrench in my Armorer Tool is not 1/16", more likely 1.5 mm. Worth $35? I don't know. The rest of the tools appear to be ok. I don't know that I would want to use it to knock out a real tight pin.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:20 PM
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If you have a pic of your sight removal tool setup it would be appreciated....
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Originally Posted by epj View Post
I took the set screw out of my Shield prior to attempting to remove it. It wouldn't budge until I applied heat. I put some penetrating oil down the screw hole and used one of my JMT sight pushers to remove the sight. It's important to use some penetrating oil and let it sit for a little while. Longer is better. The Shield sights are tight, but not any tighter than most 3rd generation S&W autos. Biggest problem is that they have little surface area for a pusher to engage. I developed a special push pin for the JMT pusher just for the Shield. Other brands like MGW that pull on the sight rather than push, must have a Shield specific slide bar to fully engage the Shield sight. I went a different route, utilizing a push pin that sits on the second ledge of the sight. It would be better if it were dead on the bottom, but the second "step" works better in the long haul.
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:19 PM
bobelk99 bobelk99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
You want precision, you need to spend more money.
I am pretty new here, but I have found your posts to be informative and well though out.

That said: What source would you recommend for 'tools' that are true to size (precision)?
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:45 PM
WilsonFlyer WilsonFlyer is offline
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Even if you have a perfect wrench, variances in the hex in the set screws purchased in bulk by the thousands are going to ofset the wrench anyway. At the end of the day, it's a **** shoot. Find something tight (Metric or SAE) and take the dingin' set screw out.
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:45 PM
WilsonFlyer WilsonFlyer is offline
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Really?? LMAO
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonFlyer View Post
Even if you have a perfect wrench, variances in the hex in the set screws purchased in bulk by the thousands are going to ofset the wrench anyway. At the end of the day, it's a **** shoot. Find something tight (Metric or SAE) and take the dingin' set screw out.
This is correct. The tool is only half the equation. The small allen screws are especially problematic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobelk99 View Post
I am pretty new here, but I have found your posts to be informative and well though out.

That said: What source would you recommend for 'tools' that are true to size (precision)?
Thanks. The best is difficult to nail down. However, the most consistent I've seen have been Snap-On. There are plenty of tools for less that are fine, but those have been the most consistently good.

The point I was making above was not that the tool has no value, just that I don't expect much from a tool intended to do multiple purposes and to be portable. Those are almost always second best.

Putting together my own portable armorer's kit, I like these:
Dasco 22 6-Piece Pin Punch Kit #22 Not all of them, just the two small ones.
WTS: Shooboy Custom Gunsmithing Hammers !!!
A multi-bit screwdriver

And, believe it or not, one of these: (one metric and one SAE)
FOLD-UP WRENCH SETS | Brownells

With these I can fix most issues I've seen with most guns. An armorer's block is also nice, but not as easily portable.
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Old 10-30-2015, 11:57 PM
etrvn1326 etrvn1326 is offline
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It has to be a 1/32 allen wrench. Or .050. Just sucks cause you can't just buy that individual one with a set of big ones you will not need.
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Old 10-31-2015, 09:10 PM
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It is a 1/16"' (.0625).
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Old 11-04-2015, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
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Very little need for the set screw at all. Once the screw is out, the journey has just begun.
QFT.

In addition to the 1/16" allen wrench you will also need a small 3-6lb sledge hammer, a brass or aluminum drift punch, masking tape and a vise. The sight is pressed in with hydraulics at the factory and 99% of the time they are a son-of-a-b%@% to move.

Tape up the slide, clamp in vise, use sledge and punch and take your time.

Good luck.
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Old 11-04-2015, 05:35 PM
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Prior to the internet and the age of information, we would get out our sets of allen wrenches , both inch and metric sizes and see if one fit. If not you went to the hardware store and got it there or modify one that was too big with a needle file until it was just right...that one was then only used for that sight screw.
I have several modified for just one purpose and used for nothing else.
Gary
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Old 11-04-2015, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonesurfer View Post
QFT.

In addition to the 1/16" allen wrench you will also need a small 3-6lb sledge hammer, a brass or aluminum drift punch, masking tape and a vise. The sight is pressed in with hydraulics at the factory and 99% of the time they are a son-of-a-b%@% to move.

Tape up the slide, clamp in vise, use sledge and punch and take your time.

Good luck.
A 6 lb sledge hammer is a mighty big sledge hammer . . .
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Old 11-04-2015, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonesurfer View Post
QFT.

In addition to the 1/16" allen wrench you will also need a small 3-6lb sledge hammer, a brass or aluminum drift punch, masking tape and a vise. The sight is pressed in with hydraulics at the factory and 99% of the time they are a son-of-a-b%@% to move.

Tape up the slide, clamp in vise, use sledge and punch and take your time.

Good luck.
Or, you can use a proper sight pusher to do the job correctly. I offer one (JMT) @ $75, or there is the MGW at $125+\- . There are others, but these two I know to work. Some others may or may not. Just food for thought.
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Old 11-04-2015, 09:45 PM
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Let's see, this is post #47 concerning a 1/16" allen wrench. Next time I will be more concerned about the fasteners on my pistols. I didn't know it was a problem, I just looked in the tool box, found one that fit and what do you know, the screw came out. Since I have found out they must be precise I measured it, and it was .0625 (1/16"), so I guess I am ok. Manufacturing tolerances being what they are, I'm really lucky. :-)
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