Have both M&P 9 and 9c. I can be just as accurate with the 9c as the full size. I find myself with a big grin out at the range because they are both so darn easy to shoot. It's really easy to fill a fist size area on a target at 30 ft. That should be good enough for a ccw. Now what's your reason for using a pistola on something 75 ft. away? Certainly not self defense cause if that's the case you are in a world of hurt. If it's just throwing junk down the range to see how far you can, just have fun with it. If you are shooting coyotes go get the rifle.
I don't pay any attention to internet chatter about accuracy. That seems to be more an issue of the user than the gun. Now reliability, customer service, and repair are things that I worth checking out on the internet.

I would like to see results of a ransom rest and M&P 9 at 25 yards
would not be surprised some people have difficulty with the M&P trigger

Been shooting my HS Victor since I was in college. Very Accurate in my hands. Same on the 1911 platform guns.
The M&P9 FS is my first polymer gun... but I tried them all first. Shot the glocks best, but figured the Smith was just a learning curve.

Putting 1000 rounds through the M&P cleaned up a lot of bad habbits that a heavy gun let me get away with. Now I have even better trigger control and isoloation of movement. Much improved follow through. But moving past 10 yds, well, that has been very frustrating. After 500 rounds, started shooting benched groups to see what was up. Geezzz, I was missing the paper on some groups, and POI kept changing. Taped the rear site down to a narrow slit, and that improved with the grouping somewhat. What is strange, one set will be all over and off the paper, and then another set of 5 will actually group up....still 5+ inches at 25yds. Pulled out a Sig 229 that I have on loan to purchase, and after 40 test rounds was grouping less than 5 inches "OFF HAND" at 25 yards... can only do better with my Victor and MatchDot... and a Bullseye grade 1911.

After finding numerous threads with this common theme, I too am convinced something is up with these guns. Want to start shooting local IDPA this summer, but I can't have a gun that I don't believe in. Going to try the trip back to Smith, and maybe get lucky if they swap out the barrel and slide (small slide, fat barrel please!).

Oh, gun has the comp Apex kit installed.... trigger is smooth now, no creep, just the slightly mushy break these guns seem to have.

I would shoot a box... put it down, and pick up something else to show my brain that I can shoot... and then try it again.
The first day, this gun just killed my confidence. I am stuborn, though, and wishing for a fix.

Cw

I would think that my problem is, just like you said, with the trigger. I traded a accurate shooting Sig SP2022, it's a DA/SA, that is just not comfortable to grip. At 25 feet I can get 3" five shot groups at the center of the target using WWB and some reloads. With the M&P best I can get is 4" five shot groups left of center using the same rounds and distance.

This is my first pistol with a trigger safety and I could probably blame that on trigger control which should get better with practice. i'm not the best shot but I can do 2" five shot groups, sometime better at that same distance with my 1911.

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Corpsman Up!
1990-2010

While we tend to shoot better with some firearms over others, all firearms are more accurate than we will ever be.

I have six M&P's. Four FS (3- 9's and a FS 45) and ALL were tack drivers right out of the box and keep getting better. They all keep a quarter size group at 15 yards. The more I shoot my Shield,the better it's getting too. M&P 22 just needs a good breaking in. It won't out do my High Standard,but I didn't expect it to.

The first M&P9 I shot was a tack driver, the compact even more so! But they were the first ones out of the barn too. Thing is I believe that some folks expect bullseye accuracy out of a combat weapon, some do it and some don't. If you can hold a 6 inch group at 25yds. it's perfectly acceptable or so called "combat accurate".
Thing about fighting though is everything is fluid, you may or may not use your sights, you may be in the most awkward firing position you've ever thought of! My point is the M&P was designed as a fighter not a target shooter, and if it can shoot a 3 inch group at 25 it's good!
Despite my fondness for the 3rd Gens, I'm gonna have to get another M&P in 9mm, just too see what is going on with them. Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

The gents who have commented upon trigger control have it. I've done 5 inch groups from prone with a stock M&P9 at 50 yards. Hits on Pepper poppers at over 100 aren't that hard either and we weren't using prone.

Yes, the piece was designed as a combat gun, but that doesn't mean it can't shoot well. The user is another story. Acquiring skill is gonna take work. The general issue is that the stock trigger is very much like an extremely well tuned double action revolver with a short stroke.

People get impatient when performing the trigger stroke and finish off with a yank to fire it. This is especially true with those used to tuned 1911s and the single action part of the TDA triggers. I repeat, it's gonna take work on your part, it did for me when we transitioned from TDA issue weapons. It also seemed that it took longer, the better shot you were.

I'd strongly suggest quit swapping back and forth between different trigger types and concentrate on shooting groups, not round count.

Also, groups can be a function of sight alignment and sight picture. Sights a little blurry? Maybe need to visit the eye doctor? You might try a visit to Wallyworld with a pen. Try out some reading glasses and see how sharp the image of the end of a pen is when the tip is held at the distance of your front sight.

I agree that a lot of problems are us the shooters.... but when I take a handgun, sandbag it on a bench, and it won't group.... well, it won't group. If your M&P will hit poppers at 100yds, great. Mine won't. I'd be afraid it would miss the backstop of my private shooting range.

If you haven't been the lucky recipient of one of these less than consistant M&P's, you aren't going to believe. I didn't, that is why I purchased it! This is the first handgun that I have fired that isn't even close to what I can do with a handgun. My training is mostly target, bullseye shooting. Bought the M&P to branch out to try some defensive shooting drills and some local IDPA with my son (love his sig 226 in .40, even with the stock trigger!) I won't tolerate a gun that won't group at 25yds.... and flame what you want about that not being a practical distance. For me, that is the gold standard of accuracy. Shooting at 25yds will reveal your flaws in a real hurry.

I don't expect the M&P to be a bullseye gun, that's for my 1911's... but I demand that it have SOME accuracy, mine throws flyers at will. At 10-15 yds, I am calling my shots pretty spot on with every other gun I own. No clue with this one.

Try to keep an open mind. Cw

Got back to the range today and here are the results.

This is honestly the best target when benching the FS M&P 9mm.

5rds/S&B 115gr./15 yards/benched


The next two target are from off hand shooting with slightly quick, consistent trigger pulls. I actually seemed to be able to get better groups this way and shockingly enough, the Tula (I wrote Wolf on the paper) ) was the most accurate. Although none of it is even slightly impressive, I guess it like the grungiest ammo the best.

16rds/Tula 115gr./15 yards/offhand


15rds/HST 124gr.+P/15 yards/offhand


The Apex sear did help with the trigger over stock and may have helped a tad with offhand shooting since there were no fliers. I've shot plenty of poly guns like XDs and Glocks, DA/SA pistols galore and many many SAO semi-autos like 1911s so I don't think it has anything to do with my shooting or trigger control when it comes to the accuracy of the FS M&P 9mm.

ETA: Just to be clear in case someone asks, I've owned probably 50+ handguns in my lifetime, many of them striker fired poly guns and I've gotten better groups using the same type of ammo. I also benched it so only a ransom rest is left to test it out, which I don't have. I can get 4“ groups or less with a 1911,XD,Glock, Ruger P-Series,Beretta,Sig,CZ, S&W and Ruger revolvers, BHP, etc so I would say it must have something to do with the gun since all those guns have different types of triggers and configurations.

Looks pretty good, keep practicing and I'm sure you'll improve...

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Jack C

Is the trigger that much different than every other gun out there though? I've shot a plethora of striker fired, DA/SA, SAO and DAO guns with better results. I'm going to call S&W Monday and see what they think acceptable accuracy is and what method they use to test for it. I benched it and took out most of the human part of the equation. A ransom rest is the only other way to test which I don't have. I get the same results with all 7 brands of ammo I've tried in it.

Triggers are different from brand to brand of striker fired pistols. Even between identical models as well sometimes. Try competition target shooter to shoot your gun at the range one day.

Not sure who would be a competition shooter at my range by just looking at them.

The thing is, I'm far from a new shooter having owned many many handguns in my time with different triggers. If I shoot SAO 1911s everyday for a month straight, it would only take me about 5-10 shots max to get right back into shooting a DA/SA gun. The trigger breaks well and the front sight does not move at all when dry firing so I'm not pulling it one way or the other. I'll check to see if any of the guys at my LGS does competition shooting to see what they can do. With my 1911s, Beretta 92s, and other pistols I own, I can easily get a 1"-2" group all day. If I bench them, it's one ragged hole. Fist time shooting a Glock had me shocked how accurate it was, and that first one was a G26.


Like I said, I'll see what is S&W finds acceptable. In the case of my FS M&P, it's at combat accuracy max.

There's another thread running about a lack of accuracy, at least in some examples.

Both have mentioned benching. Charlie Petty's noted in print that it's possible to blow groups with poor trigger control in a Ransom Rest. While testing new ammo earlier this spring, I inadvertently proved it's possible to blow groups from a benched rifle with artificial support at fore end and butt. I even re-bedded the rifle action before I realize the problem was the nut behind the trigger. A meeting with myself and a concentration on fundamentals, with a couple of changes in what I'd been doing solved the problem.

When we did our transition training I personally had issues with the M&P despite 25 years as an instructor. And yes, I tried other pistols while grumping about my inability to shoot good groups with the M&P. All it took was concentration on fundamentals with the M&P.

You note you've been shooting for quite awhile. Not to be insulting, but have you had a good shooting coach or instructor watch you while firing? Your last target seems to show several distinct groups, indicating that either you altered your grip or are changing your trigger stroke in some repeatable pattern.

Hope you get the issues resolved.

I stated in the other thread that the M&P trigger must be perplexing and totally different than every other type of trigger out there since I shoot all others just fine. Most people complain about the M&P trigger and put in an extra $200 of Apex parts to bring it up to something shootable if it's indeed operator error. I know the Shield uses something a tad different but I had no problem getting my usual 1"-3" groups the entire time I was shooting the rental. Maybe that's why S&W is rumored to start putting the same system in the FS M&Ps....or at least everyone is hoping so.

ETA: Just finished rounding off the edges of the striker block which took away more of the slight grittiness so I guess I'll see if that does anything. Right now, it's smoother, lighter and has a shorter reset than other guns I can shoot tight groups with. There's only so much that can be done with the trigger before it becomes too light and it's time to troubleshoot the gun itself.

Nak,
Thanks for posting your targets. Your FS M&P experience is similiar to mine, and while I have a fair amount of experience, your seem to be even more experienced with a variety of handguns, expecially poly guns.

For those who want to keep encouraging us to practice more and find a more experienced shooter to test our guns... Well, I don't have an answer for you... Some of us our not satisfied with low accuracy, and know the difference.

Cw

Sell it if it doesn't perform, the answer has been posted over and over from S&W.. it meets their specs for a combat weapon. If you want something for more accuracy ... buy something else. I own 5 M&P's, they shoot just fine for what I purchased them for.

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Jack C

I wasn't going to reply to this thread before so it wasn't resurrected, but since it is I'll post what I said in the other unlocking thread yesterday...

I just talked to S&W and the FS M&Ps in 9mm are expected to get 3" groups at 25 yards. They asked me what type of ammo I've tried and I told them 7 brands, 3 weights, +P and standard pressure and the guy was shocked when I told him it was getting a 10"-12" group at best at 15 yards.

I'm not bashing the M&P and those with the .40 and 45acp and most with the 9mm don't have this accuracy problem, but there are many that do. It feels perfect in the hand, almost no muzzle flip and the trigger with Apex sear and polished striker block breaks as nicely as my Dan Wesson Valor. There is something wrong with this particular M&P. I'm very far from being the only one but I'm guessing nobody wants to admit it and wants to blame me, not the very well known issue. Hopefully they put in a new barrel, slide, frame rail blocks or all of the above. The slide is also sloppy loose, much worse than any Glock (3) or XD (7) I've owned and the barrel unlocks very loosely when the slide is retracted a hair's width.

If the ergos and trigger didn't feel so perfect, I'd dump it immediately but I want this gun to work since it has all the characteristics I've been looking for in a poly pistol except for this sub-par accuracy. I won't revive this thread but I'll make a post about what S&W sends back.

That is good to hear. Obviously that should prove that the gun is not performing to standard based on the S&W tech's surprise. I hope they set you up with everything to send it back and have it checked?

NAK - Do you have any friends or people locally that have a M&P and would be willing to meet at a range and swap a few parts to maybe troubleshoot the exact issue? Maybe try just a slide, springs, barrel, one by one for a few rounds? I am sure S&W would be interested to hear your results as would many people on the forums. I myself like to tinker and solve issues, so that is what I would try.
OR..
Does your local range have one you could rent and do an identical accuracy test with as further corroboration of the issue with your gun? Obviously if the rental with 10k rounds hold the 3" group @ 25yrds with the same test procedure you know yours is an anomoly and it is not a "shooter" issue.

Well my M&P is already on it's way back to S&W as of yesterday through my LGS. The tech on the phone wanted to send me a label but I told him I'd let the shop send it back. It's still free but this way it might expedite the process.

When I told the tech about the groups, his words were something like "How big is the group??" Me: "10"-12" at 15 yars" Tech: ".....yea there is defiantly something wrong if your getting those groups at 15 yards,you better send it in so we can take a look at it."

I don't know anyone with an M&P, but my local range has a rental M&P in 9mm I'm going to try out pretty soon. I have to admit that the Apex sear and the polish job I did on the striker block turned the pull and reset into one really nice trigger. The Shield I rented at the same shop gave me my usual groups at the same 15 yard distance. Heck, the Kimber Solo I had was giving me 2" groups at 15 yards and the grip on that thing was as slippery as it gets.

When I get my FS back, I'll post a new thread on what S&W did.

Hi guys - I'm new to the Forum and happy to contribute and learn. However I bought a brand new Pro Series 9MM a couple weeks ago and it shoots a silver dollar size group off a bench at 8 yards. I determined that sort of accuracy is a little lacking for Action Pistol and took it back to the dealer. They shot it and decided that they'd return my money after I complained about it. Not sure if they will sell it as a 'used' gun or send it back to S&W. The dealer is a big company.

It's probably ok accuracy for a defense gun, but for IDPA/USPSA/Steel Challenge, etc. platform, it's not a good starting point.

Yes - I realize that maybe a barrel change might fix it, but for 600+ dollars, it should shoot good out of the the box and anything over and above that is gravy and is refining a good thing to start with.

Not the case with this one.

Sad thing is that the Club 'Pro' tried it out - got the same results then embarrassingly, shot his tricked out Pro Series and guess what ------
----- got the same results.

So - a dollar size MOA at 7 - 8 yards really starts to open up at 15 yds+

OK - - another buddy of mine bought a regular M&P 9mm for his first action pistol gun - early this year. It shot terrible and didn't seem to have the requisite accuracy on steel plates at 30 yds. Fussed and fretted over it for weeks. He sent it back to S&W, and they put a new front sight on it. Same problem - not accurate at all. He shelved it and now shoots a XDM - it shoots like a hand-held laser gun. I will stick with Glock - even though I really like the grip angle on the M&P.

Oh - I shoot a Les Baer TR Special (changed grips) in IDPA CDP; Glock 34/35 Gen 3 in USPSA Production (and a Glock 24 in LIM10 starting this upcoming season if we can still shoot those kinds of games)

Those are the facts.

BTW - I have some brand new stuff I bought from Apex anticipating to use it to trick my M&P. Don't need it now and will sell cheap. I'll keep the plastic frame jig thing - it's pretty cool and works on my G-guns.

Chat? 703-309-4967

Check out some of the groups that are posted at the thread "Shield groups: Best Ammo You Know of."

Many are seeing groups that are great with this little M&P

Shield Groups: Best Ammo you know of

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones who got an accurate M&P 9mm. I've had mine about a year now and I'm very satisfied with the gun.

This weekend I shot my M&P 9 FS, a friends wife's M&P 9 FS, a 226 and a USP. My groups at 7 and 20 yards were very acceptable with all guns. I tried the borrowed M&P because I read that the trigger has been changed in the newer models, but I didn't feel it.

My M&P 9 FS is stock and over 2500 rounds.

To me, an inherent problem should be intrinsic to all of the guns. All I can say is I'm happy; I watch other M&P 9 Shooters at the range and they seem to be hitting good groups too. So, maybe they were lucky in the draw too.

I don't believe the accuracy issues are inherent. But, I can only go by my own experience.

I have shot cz 75's for a while and I know how accurate I can be at 25 yards, I expect the same from any gun.
Here is a very interesting link in regards to the new barrel design introduced in 2012 (apparently). Long story short, long range accuracy solved according to this, but I am not sure. It looks like sw has been changing the mp design over the years, small things and parts.

10-8 Performance: S&W M&P Barrels, An Informal Test

Wow...lots to ponder here! I have a M&P-22 that I really enjoy shooting so I thought I'd get a M&P-9 to go along with it. Figured I'd check out the forums to get some advice first before purchasing the 9mm. At this point I don't know if surfing the forum was a good idea or not. There are so many contradictions swirling around the M&P-9 that it makes a persons head swim. I'm mainly getting the 9mm for home defense, not target competitions so it should be ok for that...right? Thanks everyone for all the research and reports from both sides. Hopefuly I'll be one of the guys that has good luck with shooting the M&P-9.

Firemandan, the problem didn't affect all guns, but it was real. Good news, however -- the problem has been solved. Make sure you're buying an M&P made during or after June 2012, and all will be well.

Not exactly. My 9 with a test fire date in 10/12 does not group better than 7 inches at 25 yards but is highly accurate at 15.

Thanks for the info IDescribe...I'll definatly make sure it's a late model gun then. I just returned home from running about 250 rounds through my M&P-22 and it worked flawless(even with the cheap Remington ammo). Makes me want a M&P-9 even more now!

There have been at least two different versions of barrels in production. The external differences are easy to see, but the internal differences involving the twist rate are less apparent.

I bought a 4 1/4" 9mm barrel from Brownells in March so I could convert my M&P40. The barrel I got looked suspicious, so I ordered another barrel from Midway in May that confirmed my suspicions.

The barrel that came from Brownells was an old style barrel, and when you look down the barrel you could see about 1/4 twist over the length of the barrel, which roughly equates to a twist rate of 1/18.

The newer style barrel that came from Midway had about 1/2 twist over the length of the barrel, which roughly equates to a 1/9 twist rate. I believe that a twist rate of 1/9 is more in line with the industry standard for 9mm barrels, and I suspect the change in twist rate may have been made to achieve more consistent accuracy with a wider variety of 9mm ammo.

Details of the old vs new 9mm barrels, including pictures looking down the barrel, can be found in the post linked below.

Production Versions of FS-M&P 40SW & 9mm Barrels?

I guess that it's probably a good idea to confirm which barrel is installed if you're looking to purchase a 9mm M&P.

Putting the weapon in a vise tests the weapon. All else is a test of the shooter, and most shooters these days cannot shoot worth a hoot.

There are few shooters who can shoot a 2 inch group offhand at 25 yards. Most settle for "minute of B-27" at 5 yards.

Most of the LE/military pistols (not including HK) seem to be designed for "combat accuracy" which is usually thought of as 4 inch groups at 25 yards. Few shooters these days, however, are capable of that because they did not grow up shooting bullseye with K frame S&Ws or match grade 1911s.

Thus, anytime I read a thread on how almost any pistol is "inaccurate" at any given distance, I regard it as nothing more than a confession by the writer that he simply has never learned to shoot.

I'm very satisfied with the accuracy of my M&P 9 out to 15 yards. I've been able to correct any accuracy problems I've had with a few stray rounds with some shot group analysis and practice. Well maybe still a few stray rounds here and there.

I suppose any forum thread called "The S&W M&P problem thread" invites all kinds of stuff. The internet is a great source of information and a great source of disinformation.

I understand that philosophy and it's usually the first thing I think of, too, but it won't always be correct.

I have no idea how widespread the lack of accuracy issues with the M&P9 (and M&P40, as far as I am concerned) may be if considered as a percentage of production. There is no way to know unless S&W tells us. Maybe it is very small, and maybe I have just been unlucky? I will simply say this: If anyone would care to try, I would be pleased to let you show me that my two M&P9s will consistently shoot into a 4" circle at 25-yards, using any position you care to shoot from, with any ordinary commercial 9mm ammunition that one would use for target practice (not the $1/round stuff that no one except government agencies can afford). When I say consistently, I mean 5 consecutive targets of 5-rounds each. Simple enough.

The idea that older shooters used to 1911s and target revolvers (like me ) cannot use the M&P trigger is not entirely credible. I don't have this problem with Glocks or with my M&P45. I can manage a bad trigger. I don't like to, and I won't do it if I don't have to, but I can do it. It's not the trigger.

This is a simple test, but I don't think it will happen. The simple fact is that the M&P pistol is not a 25 yard gun. It is a defensive gun and as such is designed for short distances. I have never fired mine at a distance longer than 15 yards and am completely happy with the accuracy I'm seeing.

I wonder what S&W has to say about shooting the gun at 25 yards?

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Freedom isn't free.

After talking with a few CS Rep/Techs, they all said 3" at 25 yards for the FS.

As an update, I sold my inaccurate FS 9mm and recently bought a new FS 9mm 3/28/2013 test fire date, new trigger reset and sear and right off the bat I'm getting 2.5" groupings or less at 15 yards with any ammo. Looks like it was the gun after all.

I would like to see them pull ten guns off the shelf and see all ten of them do that! I'd even settle for 9 out of 10.

I compared the barrel of my new M&P9 with my older gun. It's obvious they have made some changes. No measuring tools needed to see that. Unfortunately, my new gun doesn't shoot any better than my old one.

Exactly the same experience I have with my Pro CORE 5". Maybe those who are experiencing issues own the cheaper "ghetto" models?

I think it's just the way S&W was doing things. I say this since my inaccurate FS stock or with Apex stuff and all sorts of ammo was shooting 10"-8" groups and the newer one is doing 2.5" or less with the same exact ammo.

Before I bought my newest M&P FS 9mm, I bought a SD9VE and it was shooting groups much tighter than my old FS used to.

Interesting. I guess I'll be more circumspect if I pick up another one. I wonder what's going on with the inconsistencies?

I wouldn't expect 3" groups at 25 yards with a gun like this, but if they say it should do it, then it should do it.

Personally, I'd be impressed with anyone who can shoot a 3" group at 25 yards with this gun. Even off a rest.

I'd like to put my gun in a clamp and see what it's really doing.

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Freedom isn't free.

Ever since I got my FS I thought I'd suddenly become a terrible shot. Never had a problem with my 9c. Yesterday I finally took them out to the range together, along with my brother-in-law's 9L and shot at 25 yards from a rest. The 9c (with full-size mag and X-grip adapter) and 9L were great. The FS9 was way left and scattered all over the place. I've attached two sets of targets labeled C3, C4, C5, and FS3, FS4, FS5. They were shot from a bench rest (which I'm not accustomed to), in alternating order (C3, FS3, C4, FS4, C5, FS5). The 9L was the most accurate, with 3/5 of shots in the black on two targets (probably largely due to sight radius).

Given that the triggers and form factors are nearly identical between the guns, I no longer think the issue is trigger control. Coming from a 1911 I initially thought that was the issue.

I've emailed S&W these results and requested they have a look at the FS. The only thing I can think of that would cause it is that there appears to be a large gap at the front of the locking block on the FS that's not there on the 9c or my BIL's 9L, that allows some extra play.

EDIT: Oh, and the FS shoots WAY left. On the bottom target, FS5, I aimed substantially to the right and got them more on the paper, at least.

EDIT2: Just for reference, I measured the groups from the 9c, and they are 3-4". For the FS, well, it's basically larger than the whole target.

Attached Images

	IMG_20140515_163631.jpg (66.0 KB, 77 views)
	IMG_20140515_163636.jpg (69.0 KB, 85 views)

What distance?

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Freedom isn't free.

All of the shots were from 25 yards, at a rifle range bench rest.

Well, believe or not, it seems that some of the older M&PFS 9's were giving inconsistent results on accuracy. I know, I had a brand new 2011 M&PFS 9 that was all over the place in accuracy. Surprised the heck outa me, I'll tell ya. Minute of "Bad Guy", sure, but tack driving? Not a chance. Did the different ammo deal, trigger clean-up, nothing worked. Sold it to a buddy as a duty weapon and I told him about the fine accuracy of the weapon being non-existant. I Went on down the road with my life so to speak, not troubled by it. About a year later, I started seeing these threads about the M&PFS 9 giving inconsistent accuracy in some pistols and great accuracy in others. I remebered how bad mine was, and all I had attempted to do to make it better to no avail. About the early or middle of 2013, I find out that S&W has done a PIP on the M&P, to include new twist rate barrels on the FS 9. Seems the newer models have much improved triggers(Thank you, APEX, for leading the way...lol.!), and different barrels in the 9's. S&W has apparently listened and updated their product.
It is entirely possible that a new "H" version gun won't shoot, but this is the first I have heard of it. If you have problems, of course contact S&W for help.
BtW, those of you w/ the "H" version gun just do not need APEX trigger parts. The "H" series pistols have very, very nice triggers in them w/ a very distinct trigger reset. Matter of fact, the new "H" version S&W sear looks not unlike the APEX sear. You can do the APEX stuff if you prefer, but shoot it first and see, the "H" guns are awesome in the trigger department, IMHO.
Thanx,Ofc.JL

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LEO, Instr, Armorer, Gov's 20

I believe I have the H version. It has a nicer trigger reset than my BIL's 9L, short, crisp, and loud, and the number on the box starts HAC. Nonetheless, it appears to have a major accuracy issue.

I know S&W is rather backed up when it comes to CS, I got their automatic email response, waiting to hear how they want me to proceed.

Ofc.JL, do you know of a method to positively ID an "H version" of the FS M&P9?

I believe the "H" he is referring to is stamped on the trigger bar. Remove your slide and look at the trigger bar. What is the letter you see stamped there?

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Freedom isn't free.

Thanks, Rastoff. I will check.

I have never cared for M4carbine... read a few threads and was put off by a few users there.

A flat out declaration that the site was for the "elite" who only buy the best... and that they have nothing to do with someone who doesn't buy one of their few chosen brands.

The posts just gave me the feeling of a bunch of people who want to think they are experts and better than everyone... either because they spent the most, or because they spent time in the military and had some training...


But as far as the M&P, I have found mine to be accurate.


A question... I never had need to shoot at 25yds for a defensive pistol, and I don't own competition pistols...

So all these people shooting for groups at 25yds... Are they shooting off hand or from a rest/bench?

When I shoot for groups, at 7yds, I can hold them under an inch... but I don't think I could do less than 4in at 25yds off hand.


In a pistol like the M&P, if it is able to do an inch at 7yds, slow fire... and you can handle it well enough to keep rapid fire groups to about fist sized, then they do what you need them to. Be accurate at the typical defensive distances at speed. Those would even work for many "practical" type competitions.

My opinion anyway.

No, my first polymer frame hand gun was an M&P pro 9 with the 5'' barrel and the accuracy was superb. At 25 yards, one big hole. So if there is an issue it's not categorical as the M&P pro and standard M&P are essentially identical in most aspects.

I too can attest to the same problems with internet reviews of even older handguns that have been through the ringer. Webleys don't lock up tight enough, RIA 1911s are inaccurate and finish is weak and so on. With the exception of hollow points don't feed in p08s (no surprise) they have been wrong every time. I think in this circumstance most people who write the reviews probably either aren't shooting well from a fundamentals perspective and its more evident at a longer range or they have unrealistic expectations.