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02-25-2012, 02:06 AM
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M&P 9mm inherent accuracy problems?
I was surfing around and found some internet chatter about the M&P regarding accuracy. Supposedly, it has been well documented that M&P 9mm accuracy is unacceptable at 25 yards when comparing it with similar handguns.
I have a FS M&P 9mm with frame safety and enjoy shooting it. I am no marksman by any stretch of the imagination and tend to shoot at 10 yards or less, but I was just wondering what everyone thought about this information as it is the first I have heard about such problems.
Skim through the threads that I have posted below and let me know your thoughts. There is some heated discussion below and at the very least makes for some interesting reading...get your popcorn!
Recent manufacture M&P 9 accuracy - M4Carbine.net Forums
The S&W M&P problem thread - M4Carbine.net Forums
Thanks,
Mark
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02-25-2012, 02:14 AM
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Every gun I own has bad press on the internet. Not sure about the accuracy of the pistol you're talking about but the LC9 reviewers claim it is a piece of junk, my SR9 is a FTE nightmare, and my LCP will fall apart if I try to use it. My real world experience with them is that they have been trouble free for years and have had thousands of rounds fired through them. I wouldn't worry too much about what the "experts" think and decide for yourself what weapon meets your needs.
Last edited by rilkil23; 02-25-2012 at 02:33 AM.
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02-25-2012, 07:45 AM
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Mark,
I have a few and talk to a lot of guys who shoot them in competition. First time I've hear of it. After reading some of the thread, that was one of the most unscientific tests I have ever seen. Plus, WWB is known poor quality ammo. Well documented . Actually, most owners I know think they shoot better than expected. Good luck.
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02-25-2012, 08:10 AM
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I have a M&P9c, that astounds me with it's accuracy. I don't care what it does at 25yds. It will double tap all day long into fist size groups at 15yds.
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02-25-2012, 09:37 AM
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It seems to me that when a shooter goes to the range the first time with a new MP9, they tend to shoot low & left. I have seen several people do it. It happened to me. I have used a 5906 for years and there is a big difference between the trigger on the 5906 & MP9.
Once I got used to the trigger on the MP9 after 500 rounds or so, at 25 yards the black area of the target is just one fist sized ragged hole. There is nothing wrong with the accuracy of these handguns.
And I'm not an expert marksman and have 50 year old eyes, if I can do it, anyone can with practice.
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02-25-2012, 10:00 AM
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Absent Comrade
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Mine shot dead nuts on at 7 yards right out oof the box. I use a 6:00 o'clock hold, but the target bulls are only 3/4" orange dots.
I am pleased with the accuracy. I have a KelTec PF-9, M&P22, and M&P9. They are all fun to shoot and more accurate than I can shoot with my old eyes. However, if I was competing, I would use a 1911.
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02-25-2012, 10:04 AM
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Nothing but internet bullshi*. The M&P is just as accurate as other guns in it class. By now most people know to take what they read on the net with a grain of salt. Put your hands on the equipment and see for yourself.
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02-25-2012, 10:06 AM
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My 9c is more accurate than I am. Like others here I take the Internet stuff w/a grain of salt.
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02-25-2012, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEIndSAM
It seems to me that when a shooter goes to the range the first time with a new MP9, they tend to shoot low & left. I have seen several people do it. It happened to me. I have used a 5906 for years and there is a big difference between the trigger on the 5906 & MP9.
Once I got used to the trigger on the MP9 after 500 rounds or so, at 25 yards the black area of the target is just one fist sized ragged hole. There is nothing wrong with the accuracy of these handguns.
And I'm not an expert marksman and have 50 year old eyes, if I can do it, anyone can with practice.
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Low/left is caused by jerking a single action trigger. I suspect it happens with an M&P because of the transition to the non-single action trigger.
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02-25-2012, 11:54 AM
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my 9c and 5" 9pro are both accurate, even compared to some nice 1911's i have.
i don't shoot at 25 yards .......more like 25 feet.
if the front sight moves 3/100ths of an inch you will be off 8" at 25 yards!! my eyes aren't good enough to see 0.03" anyhow, especially if i'm shooting rapidly.
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02-25-2012, 12:47 PM
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Accuracy of M&P 9mm
My 2 shoot one ragged little hole at 10 yards right to the point of aim, all day and when i go outside i can hit the 12 inch steel gong with little effort. If you want more accuracy than that, then consider getting a scoped rifle and shoot everything from the bench.
The internet is a blessing and a curse. In this case me thinks curse.
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02-25-2012, 12:50 PM
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I find the M&P pistols to be inherently accurate, the 9, .40 and .45. I know because I have each. Shoot where I point, that is "inherent" is it not?
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02-25-2012, 12:58 PM
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I appreciate the comments by everyone. I have never heard of such a "widespread" problem with the M&P series of guns and wanted to get it straight from the people who shoot them regularly.
Believe me, I take everything on the net with a grain of salt. I was just really curious if anyone has heard of such problems, or experienced them.
I strongly doubt there would be so many LE organizations not only in the USA, but throughout the world, switching to the M&P for their carry weapons if there were such problems.
As I said, I really enjoy shooting mine, and it is the only poly gun I own as I tend to prefer metal framed firearms. Striker fire is definitely an "acquired taste", so to speak.
Again, thanks for the wonderful testimony on these fantastic pistols!
Mark
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02-25-2012, 01:04 PM
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People with problems tend to post. People without problems are shooting. I started my 9mm shooting low left. Apex sear cut the left lean in half. Put the large strap on the grip and turned into a real shooter. The gun was fine, had some operator malfunctions that I had to work through.
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02-25-2012, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougb1946
People with problems tend to post. People without problems are shooting. I started my 9mm shooting low left. Apex sear cut the left lean in half. Put the large strap on the grip and turned into a real shooter. The gun was fine, had some operator malfunctions that I had to work through.
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I think this is a really important point that people with problems are going to be the ones to report them.
I had the same problem as dougb and decided to trust my gun guru and invest in the Apex trigger & sear kit & some new sights. He spent actually quite a while figuring out that there was a little burr on a part that I'm not sure where but when I got the gun back it was just amazing to shoot, impressing my glock- and 1911-favoring buddies. Also have operator malfunctions (not the greatest shot in the world!) but POA/POI is spot on when I'm doing it right; the gun is a dream to shoot now!
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02-25-2012, 04:39 PM
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Boy am I angry. Just read on the internet that Ford trucks are garbage. I feel like I have been ripped off. If my 89 F-150 didn't have 230,000 miles on it, I would trade it in for a much superior Chevy.....
Larry
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02-25-2012, 08:00 PM
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My most accurate gun...Hmmm...don't tell anybody.
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02-25-2012, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbort
I think this is a really important point that people with problems are going to be the ones to report them....<snip>
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I agree. That is what people do. For every, "this gun is great" thread you find out there, you can also find at least one "this gun is a piece of junk" thread as well, regardless of brand or model.
There are a few guys that have posted in those threads over on M4C.net that I know from another forum and I trust them to be honest in their reporting of any problems they might encounter with any gun, regardless of make/model. Firearms are simply a mechanical device. It's not reasonable to believe that everyone that leaves the factory will be problem-free forever. So while I don't doubt that there have been a few folks that have experienced some type of problem with their M&P, I think there is also plenty of quantifiable evidence that proves that there are many folks out there who have not.
My general rule is to never trust the worst reviews, in addition to never trusting the best reviews, for any product. Reality usually falls somewhere in between the two extremes.
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02-25-2012, 08:53 PM
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dougb1946, why did switching to the large grip help you? I'm a new shooter with the M&P 9mm as my first handgun. I shoot low left. (The gun shoots what it's aimed at.) I'm working on the basics (grip and trigger management at the moment) and had not given any consideration to grip size.
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02-25-2012, 09:21 PM
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Most accurate gun I've ever shot, right out of the box!!
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02-26-2012, 09:36 AM
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My M&P 9fs shoots way better than I do. Last time at the range it was more accurate than a Glock 19 for me.
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02-26-2012, 12:41 PM
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M&P 9mm inherent accuracy problems?
only if your the bad guy or coyote
I find myself falling back to the MP9 if I'm slightly off with my other pistols at the range filling in 15 to 50 yrds
My "others" like a certian brand of and grain at so and so yardage, while the MP9 fills that quiver and cycles every type of brand and grain on top of getting tight groups
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02-26-2012, 02:30 PM
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I've seen lots of that on the M4carbine site, also on the M&PBoards, but much of that is dominated by people that use Apex parts. I don't mean that Apex started it.
When I used to visit the M&PBoards in '08 people like mp9werks had good fixes if you had a gritty trigger, now it's just buy a part.
I've also noticed that Apex is on the M4carbine site with Glock Gen4 fixes.
I'm glad to see after market parts interest in these pistols, but with most shooters, I can't legally shoot an assailant at 25 yards and my M&P 9c groups at 30', draw from concealment, 3 shots in 4 seconds are within 2". That's all I need.
Dave
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02-26-2012, 05:53 PM
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M&P 9mm inherent accuracy problems?
25 yards is long limit for me. I never shoot 25 yards with a handgun, unless of course it's a scoped handgun. I stick to 5-15 yards for a defensive handgun, and normally shoot at 8 yards. Any kind of tight grouping (sub 4") at 25 yards, with a defensive handgun, using iron sights, really should not be expected from an average shooter. I'm not saying its impossible, I'm just saying it's impractical for defensive shooting. Just my opinion.
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02-26-2012, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cshoff
I agree. That is what people do. For every, "this gun is great" thread you find out there, you can also find at least one "this gun is a piece of junk" thread as well, regardless of brand or model.
There are a few guys that have posted in those threads over on M4C.net that I know from another forum and I trust them to be honest in their reporting of any problems they might encounter with any gun, regardless of make/model. Firearms are simply a mechanical device. It's not reasonable to believe that everyone that leaves the factory will be problem-free forever. So while I don't doubt that there have been a few folks that have experienced some type of problem with their M&P, I think there is also plenty of quantifiable evidence that proves that there are many folks out there who have not.
My general rule is to never trust the worst reviews, in addition to never trusting the best reviews, for any product. Reality usually falls somewhere in between the two extremes.
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My issue is none of them shot well
One or two, OK, all =BS
Either ammo or shooter issue
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Last edited by Grinder; 02-26-2012 at 08:15 PM.
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02-26-2012, 11:18 PM
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I think it's bs. I can pull it out of the holster, aim somewhat quickly, and hit pretty much where I aimed. My groups get worse the more I shoot, but being able to hit PoA first try leads me to think when I don't hit PoA it is me not the gun.
I am pretty new to shooting and only put about 450 rounds through this gun. Other guns have yielded the same results as the mp9, for me
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02-27-2012, 03:17 PM
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It's easier to blame the tool, than say you haven't learned to use it.
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02-27-2012, 09:18 PM
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Love my M&P9. I group what I consider well out to 15 yds offhand. If I have something like a full size torso target, I can keep them all in the vitals area at 100 yds. I couldn't ask for better from a carry gun! I think a lot of people who post on the internet are "inherently negative".
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02-27-2012, 09:19 PM
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I can't hit **** past 15yds. In fact, can't hit **** with my Glocks and my XDs past 15yds - I am simply not a good shot! However, within that 15yds I can hit at what I shoot. Works for me!
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02-27-2012, 09:49 PM
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There seems to be a history of inconsistent accuracy results. Some shoot just fine; some are poor. Try this link:
Recent manufacture M&P 9 accuracy - 10-8 Forums
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02-27-2012, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug M.
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I recognize some of those same posts from the M4 Forum. Same guys, with the same complaints, different forum.
These guys may have a legit accuracy complaint. But, I don't think the issue has as big a base as the internet makes it appear.
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02-28-2012, 09:15 PM
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I find that my new M&P9 is far more accurate than I am. I am pleased that this gun has taught me more about trigger control than any other so far. Knowing that the M&P is terribly accurate makes me bear down on my mechanics and I see improvement every time I shoot it. I think the M&P is the finest gun I've shot, and I thought my 3913 was awesome. I've got some nice wheel guns from our friends at S&W also, but boy did this M&P9 win my heart. Somewhere there is an article on bonding with your guns. The idea was offered that many guns are owned, but few are really bonded with, that some guns are just good guns, but some are special to the owner. I have bonded with two now, my Model 18-0 and the new M&P. They just work. And I look good wearing them.
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02-29-2012, 06:05 PM
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My m&p9c is one of my most accurate guns. I think i shoot it so well because it fits my hand so well and the recoil is very soft for me.
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03-01-2012, 01:05 PM
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I have two M&P Pro Series 5" Pro Series....one with a Dr Optic read dot and the other with Trijicon night sights. Both have Apex triggers in them. I'm 62 but able still able to hit what I'm shooting at out to 15 yards without fail. I own many other handguns ...some very pricey but none of them are more accurate than the M&P's.
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03-01-2012, 02:31 PM
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M&P Accuracy?
I have the S&W M&P 9c and have been very happy with the accuracy. I mostly shoot at 3, 7 and 15 yards and if I do everything accurately the pistol is dead on. In my opinion you have a great firearm!
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03-04-2012, 07:03 PM
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I think it's a vocal few that either have gotten a bad one or have heard from a friend who heard from a friend that there are accuracy problems.
A friend of mine hates the M&P that his department issues because it FTE quite a few times per 100 rounds. He blames it on cheap ammo after having it serviced several times and the problem doesn't go away. If I didn't know better I'd tell people to stay away from the M&P just based on one person's experience and they may tell someone else not to buy one based on what I said, all going back to one problem gun.
I also suspect that most of the complaints may be the shooter who doesn't want to admit they may be at fault for lack of trigger control.
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03-05-2012, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rilkil23
Every gun I own has bad press on the internet. Not sure about the accuracy of the pistol you're talking about but the LC9 reviewers claim it is a piece of junk, my SR9 is a FTE nightmare, and my LCP will fall apart if I try to use it. My real world experience with them is that they have been trouble free for years and have had thousands of rounds fired through them. I wouldn't worry too much about what the "experts" think and decide for yourself what weapon meets your needs.
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I agree many guns have some kind of negative press/posts on it. There are guns that have been around for ages like quality 1911's and Sigs that you will see negative things about. To each his own.
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03-07-2012, 10:15 PM
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Got my M&P for Christmas and got the Apex kit installed the day before an action shoot and 2 days before a plate shoot. Now with stock Mass compliant trigger IMHO accuracy sucks. I was all over a 10"x10" piece of paper with 115gr FMJ. Now, with the Apex I got a more steady pull and with the 125gr bullets I shoot a ragged 2-3" group at 25 yards. BTW came in second on the plate shoot...
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04-16-2012, 11:05 PM
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Unfortunately the problem is real. Before someone says that it's the shooter, Internet rumor, etc let me say I have 2 M&P 45's a M&P22, a M&P40 and now a second M&P 9. The reason for the second 9mm is the first one shot terrible. No matter what weight bullet, 115/124/147, no matter what velocity, no matter what - it couldn't keep 10 shots on an 8 inch target at 25 yards ( sandbagged). My Glock 17 and 34, my XDm, my HK all would shoot the very same ammo into 3 to 4 inch groups all day long! So I traded it in for a brand new M&P 9 EXO. It shoots just about as bad as the original! My M&P 45's are great shooters (3 to 3.5 inches) at 25 yards. The 22 is reasonable though I have not tried it at 25 yards on paper. There is something strange with the 9's. I even had the Apex FSS trigger on the first one! 3.5 pounds and crisp! This one goes back tomorrow and we'll see what S&W will do.
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04-16-2012, 11:16 PM
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Where was it well documented? On a Glock forum?
I have four of them, 2 .45s and 2 9mm. They shoot along with most anything that hasn't been accurized.
If I had one that didn't shoot well I'd send it back to Smith and Wesson and complain, its possible to get a bad anything.
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04-16-2012, 11:29 PM
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Buncha BS for sure. Put something out at 25 yards and I'll hit it!
As the one post said, they blame their own weakness on the gun.
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04-17-2012, 12:24 AM
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Just a reminder in case anyone forgets - 25 yards = 75 feet. My pistol range I shoot at is only 50 feet (16.67 yards) and the 21 foot zone is 7 yards.
I would be more concerned if I couldn't hit on target between 7 and 16 yards.
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04-17-2012, 09:15 AM
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Well I am more accurate with my M&P 9 than a Glock 19. And I have had 3 Glocks and this is my first m&p so I know how to shoot Glocks. By the way did you notice I said had 3 Glocks. They are all gone but the M&P is here to stay.
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04-17-2012, 09:27 AM
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I have an M&P9 and found that the gun is very accurate, me, not so much. For some reason I find that this gun demands a little more attention to proper mechanics and trigger pull than some others I've shot. This is good, it challenges me to be better. I also find that the M&P22 is a great practice gun for the bigger brothers. It is the best shooting .22 pistol I've ever had. It is hard to end shooting sessions with this gun it's s much fun. I love my M&Ps.
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04-17-2012, 09:42 AM
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I think accurate has to be defined. From what I've read, many of the reports of poor accuracy are from USPSA shooters who often shoot targets at 25 yards or more. I had a Pro 9mm for a short time and could "hit" at 25 yards with my 147 grain reloads but I never shot it for groups so it seemed "accurate" but I didn't know for sure. Was it good enough? For what I needed, yes.
Testing "accuracy" of a handgun at 7 yards is ridiculous to me. If your M&P is for self-defense and you are satisfied with it then there is no problem and all the other reports may seem like "bs." But I've shot High Points that were "fine" at 7 yards so it all depends on your perspective.
Sure, this "problem" has only been documented on the web but where else is it supposed to be documented? It's not like S&W is going to publish information about how many M&Ps are being sent back to them because the shooter can't get any better than a 6" group at 25 yards. For a guy or gal who bought an M&P for USPSA that's a problem. Whether that means the M&P itself is "inherently inaccurate" is irrelevant, at least to me.
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04-17-2012, 09:52 AM
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I shoot my M&P's in USPSA/IDPA/Steel Challenge matches and they all hit exactly where I point them. Accuracy is outstanding for me and for what they are designed for.
Randy
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04-17-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberiad
I think accurate has to be defined. From what I've read, many of the reports of poor accuracy are from USPSA shooters who often shoot targets at 25 yards or more. I had a Pro 9mm for a short time and could "hit" at 25 yards with my 147 grain reloads but I never shot it for groups so it seemed "accurate" but I didn't know for sure. Was it good enough? For what I needed, yes.
Testing "accuracy" of a handgun at 7 yards is ridiculous to me. If your M&P is for self-defense and you are satisfied with it then there is no problem and all the other reports may seem like "bs." But I've shot High Points that were "fine" at 7 yards so it all depends on your perspective.
Sure, this "problem" has only been documented on the web but where else is it supposed to be documented? It's not like S&W is going to publish information about how many M&Ps are being sent back to them because the shooter can't get any better than a 6" group at 25 yards. For a guy or gal who bought an M&P for USPSA that's a problem. Whether that means the M&P itself is "inherently inaccurate" is irrelevant, at least to me.
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I don't think there's a problem at all. It's an m4c issue.... According to them you have to hit bullseyes .. at 25yds...
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04-17-2012, 10:14 AM
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Sounds like I need to drag mine out to the bullseye range and see what it will do at 25 and 50yds. Precision target shooting isn't what they were designed for but I bet it will hold 3-4" at 25 which is typical for a plastic framed gun. Anybody got a ransom rest?
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04-17-2012, 06:32 PM
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Boy, I hope the new 9fs I got yesterday shoots as well as the M&P22 I have. I borrowed a buddy's M&P45 fs and that's why I sold every other gun I had. My Glocks, 1911 and revolvers. I shoot the M&p's better. I'm getting old and find the soft shooting M&P's are easier on my hands. The 45 fs and the 22 shoot as well as any of the Glocks I had and more reliable than MY 1911. I'm sold.
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04-17-2012, 09:08 PM
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The M&P 9mm is my first handgun actually. When I initially started testing at the range, my shots were low and to the left also.
But...once I got use to the trigger and kickback everything was fine at that point.
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Tags
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1911, 226, 229, 3913, 5906, bullseye, ccw, glock, idpa, polymer, shield, smith & wesson, smith and wesson, transition, trijicon |
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