Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-23-2012, 03:45 PM
e.lectronick e.lectronick is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?

Hello, to all

Can anyone help me with this one, please?

I have a very specific list of criteria for a firearm purchase, and I don't know which way to go with it.

I have been in love with the M&P9c/M&P40c since I first held one in the shop some months back. It feels terrific in the hand, and has the size, and list of features I desire.

Thumb Safety
Magazine Disconnect
22lr pistol built on the same platform -suitable for cheap training. (I know, wrong size but good enough)

The only problem is that the Thumb Safety and Magazine disconnect are not currently offered on the same gun.

I called Smith and Wesson a couple of times to make sure I got a consensus of opinion from more than just one service rep. What I put together from all my conversations is that the model of gun I wanted (SWR206204FC or just 206204) is not among the current production lineup of pistols, but that they were offered by a few boutique dealerships at one time and might be again -provided there is a large enough order placed for them by a retailer.

Ugh. I only need one.

I googled the model number and saw that it is (or was) sold by a number of online dealers. However, all of them are "out of stock and cannot be backordered". That jives with what I was told on the telephone.

So, I have two options:
1. Scour the web auctions and online dealers and discussion groups and pray for one to become available
2. Build one myself

I strongly suspect that the better bet is to go with option 2. The question is how? I know there are tons of people who have purchased an M&P pistol with either the thumb safety or the magazine disconnect and removed them, so I imagine that there must be a way to add those pieces to a gun without them in the first place, right?

There is one caveat: I'll have to start with the right gun or the job can't be done. For instance, you apparently cannot add a thumb safety to a pistol with the internal locking mechanism because they occupy the same space and therefore cannot exist side by side. It's one or the other.

The next question is: do I start with a gun that has the magazine disconnect and add the thumb safety, or start with one with the thumb safety and add the magazine disconnect? Which one is the more difficult task? And are there any internal parts which need to be replaced before the additional parts are installed?

Thanks guys. I hope this question wasn't too overly verbose. But I do sincerely appreciate the benefit of anyone's insight who might have some knowledge or experience with this sort of work

Best
Erik
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-24-2012, 01:11 PM
1fly2ty 1fly2ty is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Posts: 206
Likes: 46
Liked 57 Times in 41 Posts
Default

e.lectronic
I can't help but notice that this is your first post, so let me give you my opion on what your asking for.
First the M&P is a safe action pistol, that in all reality does not require a safety, if no safety makes you feel uncomfortable I can understand that, with practice of carrying a firearm, the comfort zone does get better. If you will notice all the Glocks have never had any kind of a safety,and that is becasue it is also a safe action pistol. The magazine safety is something that in a heated battle could be very problematic. If you have to do a tactical reload and you still have a round in the chamber when you drop the mag, the time to reload, the gun is totally useless. I tend to think of things in real time situations and it is one less thing to think about, when the $--t hits the proverbial fan. If you ever have the opportunity to read some of te things that Jeff Cooper wrote you would learn alot about shooting philosophies, one notable quote is with regard to safe action pistols and goes like this "adding a safety to a safe action pistol is like looking for a solution to a non existent problem" ! If you are still determined to have a safety, by all means do it, and I would suspect that if you can fiind one with thunb safety adding the mag disconnect would be a very easy task, and I would even bet there are guys on this site that would send you the part because plenty of guys remove them, myself included! Don't know if this helps but good luck with your search.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 03-24-2012, 02:54 PM
arrowslinger#1 arrowslinger#1 is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: KY
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Default

You cannot add the thumb safety to a gun that does not have one already.

The mag safety is more of a "get you killed" feature than anything.
I wouldn't have it on any gun - I even have a ruger 22/45 that I plan on taking it out of.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-24-2012, 04:13 PM
e.lectronick e.lectronick is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Thanks for the replies

@arrowslinger#1

Thanks for that fact. I'll make sure to get the thumb safety model as a starting point for adding the magazine safety since it cannot be done the other way 'round.

@1fly2ty

Thanks for the reply as well. I should explain a bit of my thinking...

Firstly, I am married to a wonderful wife who would insist upon all the safety features I could get my hands on. That's fine with me, as long as I can get the gun in the end. I've narrowed down my list of choices to the Glock subcompacts and the M&P compacts. I steered towards the M&P because they offer factory built thumb and magazine safeties where Glock does not. It's really that simple. I will endeavor to train on this platform diligently, so as to minimize any issues which might arise with the additional complicated functionality.
I appreciate the notion that a safe action pistol does not need anything extra, but certain states, and certain spouses do, so I'm willing to compromise to get what I need. Besides, if I opted for a revolver, I'd have the same problem with my gun lacking function during a reload. I don't really consider it a problem. I'll just get really good at reloading. Plus, there is the valid argument that dropping the magazine during a struggle will level the playing field should an assailant get the weapon out of your hands.

Thanks again, guys, for the replies. I appreciate them both.

-Erik
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-25-2012, 12:01 AM
catcus-jack catcus-jack is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 333
Likes: 38
Liked 208 Times in 105 Posts
Default

I will bet your wife insists you don't run with scissors either.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-25-2012, 12:11 AM
Silversmok3's Avatar
Silversmok3 Silversmok3 is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Western South Dakota
Posts: 559
Likes: 9
Liked 383 Times in 138 Posts
Default

Do not listen to the naysayers who disparage the magazine disconnect. More than a few lawmen are drawing breath today because of that feature.I have yet to see a documented incident of someone dying because of an inability to fire one shot without a magazine inserted.

A majority of civilian gun owners will not need to do more than present the weapon to prevent criminal attack. Should a live shooting follow it is unlikely the bad guy and any accomplices will hang around long enough to require a reload after 15 or more rounds are expended.

In fact semi-automatic pistols do not work well without a magazine in place. Shooting one that way is a good technique to generate a stovepipe malfunction, as there is nothing but air beneath the spent case during the ejection cycle.One must then clear the malfunction before reloading.

Insofar as adding features is concerned, it is wiser to either select the pistol on has in mind directly or seek a different model. I will not disparage the M&P lineup in the least, but in this instance it may be a better move to purchase a Ruger SR9 or SR40 which comes equipped with a magazine disconnect & external safety from the factory or -my personal recommendation-a used 3rd Generation S&W with the same feature.

3rd generation S&W pistols can be had in any combination of size, caliber, trigger action, and are retailing now for decent prices.A 5946 DAO generally runs under $500 shipped on gunbroker at this time, and has a Double action only trigger system in addition to a magazine disconnect.A 5906 or 5904 would work also in the role of a traditional DA first pull with an external safety.

Last edited by Silversmok3; 03-25-2012 at 12:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 03-25-2012, 01:16 AM
forresth forresth is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MI's UP
Posts: 472
Likes: 12
Liked 94 Times in 65 Posts
Default

if a safety lets you relax around a gun, you should NOT have it. It would be much better the feel insecure and act cautiously than behave recklessly because of some failure prone gadget. This goes to basic safe gun handling. using a plastic chamber flag when empty, would be a much safer practice to get into and should offer much more piece of mind. My 22a has a magazine interlock. I may leave it in place since I don't consider it a self defense gun and I intend to use it to teach my young children to shoot, but I haven't decided yet.

Thumb safety vs. no thumb safety, I prefer my guns that have none. I have some guns with safeties I don't trust. Remington 700 ring a bell? I also have an old side-by-side 12 gauge who's safety only prevents you from pulling the trigger, but doesn't prevent the seer from slipping, say if it were to fall. I have other guns I haven't taken apart enough to see how the safety works, so I am unsure about them. My XDm (similar to the M&P) I trust. I took a peak at all the safety interlocks on that gun. It is much more reassuring than just some switch that blocks the trigger.
Even my in-line muzzle loader with no external safety, I trust more than some guns with safeties. I leave the hammer down until I am ready to shoot and there is a transfer bar safety (I think that is what it is called). The hammer can't strike the firing pin unless I pull the trigger, as it would be block from going past the neutral position. If the trigger were pulled when the hammer was not pulled, the hammer wouldn't have the momentum to make it past the neutral position. there are 2 things that must happen at the same time for the gun to fire, and with reasonable care, they won't happen unless I want them to.

Once again, the little lever is just giving your wife a false sense of security. It is much better to actually know what is going on with the gun so any sense of security is real and she will better respect the weapon.

Educate your woman and yourself on the mechanics involved and you'll both be more responsible (joint) gun owners.

the M&P is incapable of firing unless the trigger is pulled. respect the trigger, and you'll be fine.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-25-2012, 04:56 AM
SMMAssociates's Avatar
SMMAssociates SMMAssociates is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times in 43 Posts
Thumbs up

e.lectronick:

Welcome aboard!

To be honest, IMHO, both the magazine and thumb safeties aren't necessary in the M&P design.

To add a magazine safety, though, you need a couple of little springs, and a little lever. Probably cost more to ship 'em than to buy the actual parts. Pretty much nothing to it if you are used to mucking about with little bits of metal and pesky springs. Either sear block assembly can accept the magazine safety if it didn't come with one.

The thumb safety is another story.... You have to start with a sear block that is designed to accept one. There are a couple of little parts that have to be there, or the thing won't work. This precludes the Hilary Lock. (If you even mention that to your wife, we'll toss you off the board .) The "standard" sear block is designed to accept the Hilary Lock....

You should be able to buy a thumb-safety ready sear block from Speed Shooters, but I'm not sure. (Just FWIW, you can easily remove a thumb safety from a gun that came with one. Going the other way can be a real mess.)

If you add the mag safety, btw, your gun will still likely have the "this gun can be fired without a magazine" warning on the side. That tends to upset some of us....

(A "Hilary Lock" is a key-operated lock built into the gun to keep it from working when you need it. Just about any other "safe" sort of thing is a better idea, although it looks like the design used in the M&P would be reliable v.s. the ones used in at least some models of their revolvers. A "sear block" is a hunk of steel towards the rear of the gun that holds the sear, magazine safety lever, sear disabling lever - used to strip the gun for cleaning, thumb safety cam & spring - if you have that version, and the Hilary Lock.)

What I'd do.... Buy the thumb safety version and add the magazine safety. Some magic marker over the "message" and you're done. Five minute job if you can find the parts. The springs just hold things in place, and about anything will work, but the lever itself is a "part" you need to buy.

If you can't get a thumb safety model, talk to Speed Shooters and see if they have the block and the few extra parts involved. You will have to cut notches in the plastic grip assembly to fit the thumb safety lever, but that's pretty trivial. Adding a mag safety to that block wouldn't be a problem.

About the only real concern here, and I'm always preaching this, is to never remove a manufacturer-supplied safety device from a carry gun. IMHO, "civilian" Concealed Carry probably won't be an issue, but LEO's worry about this should they end up in Civil Court.

Regards,
__________________
Stu.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-25-2012, 07:30 AM
geoff40's Avatar
geoff40 geoff40 is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 138
Liked 605 Times in 211 Posts
Default

Another solution is to not routinely keep a round loaded in the chamber. For us average Joe's out here, do we seriously need a pistol kept in this state at all times? Can we justify it with real world statistics?
I don't think so. To each their own. If I am involved in a situation where a loaded, fire-ready pistol is the only thing that might save my life, I doubt I am going to survive the incident in the first place. It only takes a brief moment to rack the slide.
__________________
Geoff. Since 1960.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 03-25-2012, 07:55 AM
Beemer-mark Beemer-mark is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 687
Likes: 32
Liked 251 Times in 130 Posts
Default

I certainly am not a newbie, but reading this post got me thinking -- what the heck does a magazine disconnect protect you from? I've never had a gun that had one. Is there a difference in the level of safety if the gun has one round in the chamber versus one round in the chamber with a magazine? Poor gun handling is going to get you killed either way.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-25-2012, 09:01 AM
Silversmok3's Avatar
Silversmok3 Silversmok3 is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Western South Dakota
Posts: 559
Likes: 9
Liked 383 Times in 138 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemer-mark View Post
I certainly am not a newbie, but reading this post got me thinking -- what the heck does a magazine disconnect protect you from? I've never had a gun that had one. Is there a difference in the level of safety if the gun has one round in the chamber versus one round in the chamber with a magazine? Poor gun handling is going to get you killed either way.
A magazine disconnect in practical use has little to do with administrative gun handling. A moron negligent enough to mishandle a firearm won't be deterred by any safety.

Rather, a MD was included based on S&W's research with the Illinois State Police who adopted the original Model 39s back in the day as service pistols.A number of their troopers are alive today because when the crook got their duty weapons the troopers ejected the mags and prevented the bad guy from killing them. Remember in Law Enforcement police have to be in conversation distance from suspect to gather information and determine details about crimes and incidents. The Tuller Drill establishes that a man with a knife at 21 feet away is a threat, and LE routinely operates at conversation distances.That close anyone can grab a duty weapon before the LEO knows what to do, and that MD can mean the difference between survival and being shot with one's own weapon.

As far as civilian use goes the MD has more of a use when a citizen needs to disable a weapon on the fly. Say one has to visit a "no carry" zone like a post office or hospital. Barring metal detectors or other safety concerns with carrying loaded magazines, eject the mag and take it with you. If a crook steals the vehicle they don't get a functional firearm in the process. Come back to car, stick mag back in and go on with the day.

Staying the night at a friends place ,and said friend has kids but no gun safe or secure storage apparatus? No problem. With an MD equipped weapon all the owner need do is eject and maintain control of the magazine. Should trouble come knocking once the mag is in the gun its ready to go.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 03-25-2012, 09:14 AM
southchatham southchatham is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 15 Posts
Default

Don't listen to anyone telling you not to get something you want. If you want a safety and a magazine disconnect find and buy that gun. Their are reasons for and against both, you decide what's best for you.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 03-25-2012, 09:21 AM
southchatham southchatham is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 15 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemer-mark View Post
I certainly am not a newbie, but reading this post got me thinking -- what the heck does a magazine disconnect protect you from? I've never had a gun that had one. Is there a difference in the level of safety if the gun has one round in the chamber versus one round in the chamber with a magazine? Poor gun handling is going to get you killed either way.
I have 2 M&P's, one has a mag disconnect, one does not. If you have kids and want to disable your ccw gun when you get home you just have to remove the magazine, rather than unloading the chamber which can scar a casing or cause bullet setback if done often. Their are reasons, people should choose what they want.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-25-2012, 09:22 AM
chuck s's Avatar
chuck s chuck s is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 1,407
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 46 Posts
Default

The list of policemen (who are civilians, by the way) "saved" by a magazine disconnect is probably about the same length as drivers who were "saved" in a wreck because they were thrown clear of the wreck because they were not wearing their seat belt. Want to play those odds?

The argument for a magazine disconnect is as specious as that for not wearing your seat belt.

During training courses we often see students engage targets without magazines in their pistols or with unseated magazines. If the chamber is loaded they at least get one shot -- if they don't have a magazine disconnect.

Fortunately the M&P design allows the magazine disconnect to be easily removed. Same for the frame safety lock.

-- Chuck
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 03-25-2012, 12:28 PM
SMMAssociates's Avatar
SMMAssociates SMMAssociates is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times in 43 Posts
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff40 View Post
Another solution is to not routinely keep a round loaded in the chamber. For us average Joe's out here, do we seriously need a pistol kept in this state at all times? Can we justify it with real world statistics?
I don't think so. To each their own. If I am involved in a situation where a loaded, fire-ready pistol is the only thing that might save my life, I doubt I am going to survive the incident in the first place. It only takes a brief moment to rack the slide.
Geoff:

(Gonna pick on you.... )

This method, often called "Israeli Carry", presumes that you'll have two hands free, should there be a problem, or be skilled at "hang the rear sight off the edge of a table" sorts of techniques. On the range, for example, you may have plenty of time. In a real-world situation, not as much....

The name, allegedly, comes from the Israeli government providing (I have to add "at one time") a weapon for anybody who stopped in the local PD and asked for one. Since the mix of available guns was quite large, and quite varied, it was decided that teaching people to leave all the safety equipment OFF, and to chamber a round at the quickest possible moment. Probably better than trying to teach the average Joe how to work the safety on an M39, but it's kinda slow.

This may be a safety advantage, but it also requires a degree of situational awareness that may not be easy, not to mention a local Law Enforcement attitude that "showing the gun" is OK when you think you have a "situation". Try that around here....

Not, IMHO, a good idea....

****

The magazine disconnect does make the gun safer should you need to de-activate it for some reason, and is pretty quick. However, should the stuff hit the fan, actually dropping the magazine may be a problem, and you may want to retrieve it later should you find that you managed to keep the upper hand. Again, IMHO, not a really good idea.

Mom used to say "what if somebody takes your gun from you?" It's possible (seems to be more likely in "Open Carry" situations), but we are obliged to think about weapon retention. In concealed carry situations, you're probably not in much danger there anyway until you actually present the weapon. There is training available for this....

Regards,
__________________
Stu.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 03-25-2012, 12:53 PM
Silversmok3's Avatar
Silversmok3 Silversmok3 is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Western South Dakota
Posts: 559
Likes: 9
Liked 383 Times in 138 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck s View Post
The list of policemen (who are civilians, by the way) "saved" by a magazine disconnect is probably about the same length as drivers who were "saved" in a wreck because they were thrown clear of the wreck because they were not wearing their seat belt. Want to play those odds?
Challenge Accepted.


From a Law Enforcement forum:

We issued S&W autos for 32 years. They all had mag disconnects. I personally know 4 of our guys during my career who were saved by the mag disconnect. 3 of those were Troops and 1 was one of our dispatchers who was working part time at a small town. In 2 of the cases the Troops said that as they knew they were losing control of the firearm their thought was to hit the mag button. The other 2 said they don't recall hitting the mag button and it may have been hit accidently. In all 4 incidents after the bad guys had gotten their guns they had attempt to shoot our guys. Either way all 4 lived out their careers because the mag disconnect saved their lives.
In the 32 years that we issued S&W we did not have a single incident where the mag disconnect caused our person to be hurt or killed.
Sure a good holster is important. So is good weapon retention tactics and repeated training. But as with everything in life there's a guy name Murphy who rides with all of us. A good holster can be defeated. No matter how good and how much training you do with weapons retention there will always be someone stronger, quicker, more powerful, and they all have the ability to act first. Dropping the mag to disable your firearm is just another tool in the tool box.


source:Magazine Disconnect [Archive] - Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com




Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck s View Post
The argument for a magazine disconnect is as specious as that for not wearing your seat belt.
This is a false comparison. A magazine disconnect may just save someone's life. Driving without a seatbelt only puts the individual at risk needlessly in a car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck s View Post
During training courses we often see students engage targets without magazines in their pistols or with unseated magazines. If the chamber is loaded they at least get one shot -- if they don't have a magazine disconnect.
I do not see a frequent problem of individuals in and out of uniform requiring more than 15 rounds to stop an attack.Even line police officers rarely are involved in shootings demanding multiple reloads. Most criminals flee at the mere sight of a target producing a weapon, to say nothing of sticking around for a shootout afterwards. Of the times shots were fired generally speaking the situation was over one way or another inside of 10 rounds. The argument could be put forth that needing a spare magazine at all is superfluous, to say nothing of shooting whilst the magazine is out.

Balance the unlikely event of being in a Matix & Platt type extended shootout against the near certain probability of the user to either safe or clear a firearm for administrative purposes, and the magazine disconnect makes more sense.

I submit that more kids are dead because a handgun wasn't secured , and many more cops are dead because the crook got the gun away from them, than good people are dead because in a drawn out gunfight the ability to shoot that one round in the chamber accurately was denied to them.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-25-2012, 02:03 PM
chuck s's Avatar
chuck s chuck s is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 1,407
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 46 Posts
Default

Policemen only hit their targets about 17% of the time so high capacity magazines (and spares) are vital when 83% of the bullets miss. My data from New York City (about 40,000 policemen) is old so maybe this is better these days? 2/3 of the shots fired at less than 3 yards miss!
Quote:
In 1992 the overall police hit potential was 17%. Where distances could be
determined, the hit percentages at distances under 15 yards were:
Less than 3 yards ..... 28%
3 yards to 7 yards .... 11%
7 yards to 15 yards . 4.2%
And the magazine remains the weak point of all self loading firearms so a spare magazine is prudent anyway.

I will acknowledge a magazine disconnect disables the pistol if left around where children can play with it. Somehow locking up the pistol seems just as easy as just locking up the magazines.

-- Chuck
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-25-2012, 02:09 PM
e.lectronick e.lectronick is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default RE: Running with scissors

Quote:
Originally Posted by catcus-jack View Post
I will bet your wife insists you don't run with scissors either.
No matter which way you look at it, it's a far sight better than a wife who insists that I DO run with scissors.



Erik
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-25-2012, 02:37 PM
e.lectronick e.lectronick is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

@ Silversmok3
4 separate documented incidents of lives saved vs. 0 documented incidents of lives lost due to a magazine disconnect?

As to the outcome of this challenge, I say:

Game, set, match, and victory dance.

Thank you for the statistical support of my position. Despite the fact that I was attempting to elicit a how-to discussion, I knew I was in danger of inviting the usual opinionated arguments about the purity of the "safe action" pistol. So, I was quite heartened to see your and others' well informed and thoughtful responses dispelling the propaganda.

I think I have enough information to begin. I will continue to look for the factory built model. In the event I cannot source one somewhere, I will know to start with a thumb safety model and add the magazine disconnect to it.

Thanks everyone for your input.
Erik.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-25-2012, 02:59 PM
kbm6893 kbm6893 is online now
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,705
Likes: 141
Liked 2,052 Times in 902 Posts
Default

I personally know TWO cops who are here today due to the mag disconnect. And I have yet to find ONE instance of a mag disconnect causing the owner to be injured.

Let's come back to planet earth: The odds of you being in a shootout are very small. The odds of you having the presence of mind to drop a partially filled mag and do a tactical reload are I would say ZERO, unless you have had some serious training, and by serious training I mean special forces or at least combat training in the military. A weekend at Blackwater might make you FEEL like some "operator", but you're not.

The odds of you dropping that magazine in the middle of the gunfight are even smaller than even getting into a gunfight. Now suppose you do drop that mag, now you have that one shot, and IF you even hit the guy, unless it's a head, spinal cord, or heart shot, the guy won't instantly be down, so now you have a gun with the slide not locked back, meaning it will require two hands to reload that gun with a guy on you. Think you'll be able to pull that off? I don't.

I almost bought an M&P and wanted those same features. When I couldn't get one, I stuck with my tried and true 5906. that (or any other 3rd gen S&W), will have the features you want.

I wish all my guns had a mag disconenct and a safety. My new carry gun is a Ruger LC9, purchased specifically because it had those features.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 03-25-2012, 03:41 PM
Zell's Avatar
Zell Zell is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Kolob
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by southchatham View Post
Don't listen to anyone telling you not to get something you want. If you want a safety and a magazine disconnect find and buy that gun. Their are reasons for and against both, you decide what's best for you.
I agree. Just do what you want. Maybe getting a new gun with what you want is the best option for you.


Sent from my iPhone
__________________
Zell
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-27-2012, 10:29 PM
Shooting Padre's Avatar
Shooting Padre Shooting Padre is offline
US Veteran
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 392
Liked 789 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catcus-jack View Post
I will bet your wife insists you don't run with scissors either.
All my scissors have thumb safeties on them. So does my M&P9, although I don't like the soft action of it. It needs to have more positive click stops. The thumb safety on my M&P22 is much better. I had a mag disconnect on my 3913 and grew to like it. This choice seems to be very personal.
__________________
Endeavor to persevere. <><

Last edited by Shooting Padre; 03-29-2012 at 03:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-28-2012, 09:26 AM
jdh's Avatar
jdh jdh is offline
US Veteran
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 48
Liked 737 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff40 View Post
Another solution is to not routinely keep a round loaded in the chamber. For us average Joe's out here, do we seriously need a pistol kept in this state at all times? Can we justify it with real world statistics?
I don't think so. To each their own. If I am involved in a situation where a loaded, fire-ready pistol is the only thing that might save my life, I doubt I am going to survive the incident in the first place. It only takes a brief moment to rack the slide.

Then why carry at all? The chances that you will need a firearm are almost non-existent after all.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-28-2012, 11:56 AM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,741
Likes: 62
Liked 889 Times in 525 Posts
Default

We've been issuing service pistols with magazine disconnects for over 20 years. While I initially accepted it as the price of getting semis, I've come to appreciate the device.

First, there are all those officers saved by them in gun grabs. This was hashed out on a restricted website for LE firearms instructors. In less than 24 hours we had 30+ saves.

Second, if your weapon goes schlub instead of bang, a tap/rack/ready (otherwise known as an immediate action drill) takes care of the problem. Which, incidentally, is exactly what you'll do if your pistol fires your chambered round, but can't feed the next because your mag dropped. I'll also note that not firing the weapon with a partially seated mag can save you from dropping the mag due to recoil. An IAD is a lot faster than an easter egg hunt for a dropped magazine or a reload.

Third, those folks who harp on being able to fire the chambered round while reloading ignore the times in which you're supposed to execute a tactical reload: from behind cover during a lull in the action. Since you don't remove the partial mag until the fresh one is at the gun, any delay is minimal if an adversary materializes where they're a threat.

The one thing the OP hasn't brought up is where he's going to get the parts to install his magazine disconnect. The factory isn't going to sell them since they're safety items. He'll have to search out someone who removed them from their weapons. Or, buy a sear block with the parts and install them into one with a thumb safety if they'll fit.

One last thing, comparing the trigger action of the M&P to that of the Glock is comparing apples to donkeys. The Glock is the world wide leader in negligent discharges. Something the longer, very slightly heavier, (much like a very well tuned double action revolver) trigger action of the M&P makes less likely.

Last edited by WR Moore; 03-29-2012 at 03:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #25  
Old 03-28-2012, 01:51 PM
Silversmok3's Avatar
Silversmok3 Silversmok3 is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Western South Dakota
Posts: 559
Likes: 9
Liked 383 Times in 138 Posts
Default

I would once again emphasize the inclusion of a 3rd Generation S&W pistol to the shopping list. I have nothing against the M&P, but there is nothing that weapon can do that a 5906/5903 cannot do just as well, and there can be a financial discount in buying the used 3rd Generation weapon as well. It comes with an external safety and magazine disconnect.

Should the M&P still take precedence in this purchase, a wiser thing to do would be to contact Smith and Wesson for a solution to this problem. Perhaps for the right fee they would be willing to modify a purchased weapon or put in an order for the same.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-28-2012, 03:27 PM
southchatham southchatham is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 15 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silversmok3 View Post
I would once again emphasize the inclusion of a 3rd Generation S&W pistol to the shopping list. I have nothing against the M&P, but there is nothing that weapon can do that a 5906/5903 cannot do just as well, and there can be a financial discount in buying the used 3rd Generation weapon as well. It comes with an external safety and magazine disconnect.

.
Big weight difference.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-29-2012, 03:46 PM
Shooting Padre's Avatar
Shooting Padre Shooting Padre is offline
US Veteran
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 392
Liked 789 Times in 338 Posts
Default

I carried a 3913 3rd Gen for several years, and it served me very well. It had both thumb safety and mag disconnect safety. An excellent gun as are all the 3rd gen guns, there was nothing that it couldn't do that a M&P could do. Unfortunately, I had to part with it in order to do something for my son. I now own a M&P9, which I also was impressed with the first time I picked one up. So there are really good economical options out there. I really love my new M&P and I have the .22 version also, but I miss the 3913 and was proud to have had one of these classics. The 3913 was easier to conceal, as it was a single stack instead of a double, the M&P is a little larger.
As for round in the chamber. None of the bad people in the real world want to give you advanced notice that you will need your gun. I personally don't want to be messing with a slide to activate my personal defense system. As for the almost non existent chance of needing, it may indeed never come up. But I carry a spare tire in my vehicle too, and I, in the last thirty years of driving have had to change a tire once. But I had a spare with me when I did. Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Your choice. Why carry in the first place? This is your decision and yours only, don't let anyone else tell you why or why not to do so. It takes a lot of forethought in making this decision, but it is yours to make. As for getting an M&P, you may just have to pick the model that best suits you need. Good luck, good shopping and good shooting.
__________________
Endeavor to persevere. <><
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-29-2012, 03:50 PM
Shooting Padre's Avatar
Shooting Padre Shooting Padre is offline
US Veteran
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 392
Liked 789 Times in 338 Posts
Default

[QUOTE=WR Moore;

One last thing, comparing the trigger action of the M&P to that of the Glock is comparing apples to donkeys. The Glock is the world wide leader in negligent discharges. Something the longer, very slightly heavier, (much like a very well tuned double action revolver) trigger action of the M&P makes less likely.[/QUOTE]

This is an interesting statement. Could this be because there are more Glocks in use by LE agencies and the like, or in fact the trigger is more easily pulled? I do like the heavier pull on my M&P9 for the sake of safety.
__________________
Endeavor to persevere. <><
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-29-2012, 04:24 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,741
Likes: 62
Liked 889 Times in 525 Posts
Default

It's a complex mix of factors including a short trigger stroke, a lack of both initial and sustainment training and, in many cases, a failure to follow the directions in, or even read, the owners manual. Many owners compound the issue by installing trigger kits that reduce the trigger pull to levels the factory would never sanction. [Most factory specs for semi-automatic pistols specify a trigger pull of not less than 4-4 1/2 lbs. I'm not a Glockophile, IIRC, the stock trigger is around 5 lbs. You'll see kits approaching 1/2 that.]

A local recently shot himself by 'doing a Plaxico' and carrying a Glock without a holster (specifically a holster that covers the trigger/trigger guard area) and bled to death in front of his family. [Failure to read/follow the manual.]

DC Metro, at the last time I checked, had averaged 1 ND per month for over 12 years. Miami Metro had so many "accidents" they allegedly coined the term "unintentional discharge" to keep from losing their liability insurance coverage. [Inadequate training and a multitude of other issues.]

This could go on, but I believe you get the idea. I will note that there are agencies and indiviuals with no issues with the product, but, then there's the rest of the story.

Last edited by WR Moore; 03-29-2012 at 04:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-06-2012, 06:57 PM
e.lectronick e.lectronick is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
The one thing the OP hasn't brought up is where he's going to get the parts to install his magazine disconnect. The factory isn't going to sell them since they're safety items. He'll have to search out someone who removed them from their weapons. Or, buy a sear block with the parts and install them into one with a thumb safety if they'll fit.

Sorry, I'll clarify:

Knowing Dan Burwell is something of the M&P guru, I contacted him to ask if he could do the work. and his response to my query was:

"Yes I can help you out. You need to buy a gun with the thumb safety then the
magazine disconnect can be added pretty easily.

You cannot buy a gun without a thumb safety then add a thumb safety later.
The frames are different on the models with the safety.

Thanks,
Dan"

So, I'll have the peace of mind knowing that the job was done right and will not fail when the heat is on.



Also, to answer another poster's question, there is one thing that the M&P series can do besides weigh less than the Gen 3 pistols: they have a 22LR pistol on the same platform for cheap training. Additionally, Apex Tactical has all but confirmed they are creating a 22LR conversion kit for the M&P series. The only question is whether it will be for the full size or also the compact M&Ps. Because this is one of my purchase criteria, it makes the decision for me over the Gen 3 -although I do admire them very much, and seriously considered one for a time.


-Erik
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04-06-2012, 11:21 PM
Houdini1953's Avatar
Houdini1953 Houdini1953 is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Hendersonville Tennessee
Posts: 881
Likes: 111
Liked 156 Times in 114 Posts
Default

All my guns are loaded at all times and never have any shot a bullet unless I pulled the trigger most are S&W;s and one lonely Glock Gen4 26.

The real safety is your responsible storage or holstering and attitude towards a deadly weapon.

Read the owners manual All weapons are loaded and can cause great harm, owning a firearm is a great responsibility if you want a mechanical device to make you feel better then you need more time with how your particular gun works!

I have 5 M&Ps all fully loaded at all times and never has one gone and shot by itself, it ain't gonna happen I have to actually pull a two stage trigger, I can drop it or even throw it (but who would do that) and it will not shoot till I pull the trigger of a two stage trigger! Nuff said!
__________________
59,M&P9,40,40C,357,(2)45,G26
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-18-2012, 06:34 AM
kbm6893 kbm6893 is online now
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,705
Likes: 141
Liked 2,052 Times in 902 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooting Padre View Post
This is an interesting statement. Could this be because there are more Glocks in use by LE agencies and the like, or in fact the trigger is more easily pulled? I do like the heavier pull on my M&P9 for the sake of safety.
Glocks ship with a 5.5 pound trigger and require a pull of the trigger to field strip. They are also marketed to new shooters as being "simple to use". I can't count how many people i have heard saying "i want a Glock. They're the best. the FBI uses them".

Glocks are good guns in the hands of trained, experienced shooters, and even THEY have brain farts. They are much less forgiving of human error, and we are all human and capable of making a mistake. For cops, i feel they (and any other striker fired gun) are horrible choices. Try reholstering after a foor chase or during a struggle, or on a felony car stop. That's when most of the ND's occur. We had the choice of the S&W 5946, the SIG 226 both hammer fired) and the Glock 19. When I left the job, 9MM's had been in service for more than 10 years. ZERO cases od ND's with the SIG or Smith. All of them were Glocks. If you place your thumb on the back of the slide when holstering a hammer fired gun, you can't have an ND. Not so with a striker fired gun.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-18-2012, 09:13 AM
Beat Trash Beat Trash is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times in 10 Posts
Default

As others have stated, the magazine safety can be added or removed by an armor, no big deal.

I'm not a huge fan of the magazine safety, but with that said, my agency has two documented saves where during weapon retention incidents in which suspects were trying to disarm the officers, the officers managed to drop the magazine as the gun was being forced out of the holster. In both cases, the suspects attempted to shoot the officer with their gun, only to have the gun not function due to the magazine safety. Both of these cases were pre - M&P, when the issued guns were 5906's and then 5946's.

The nice thing about the design of the magazine safety on the M&P is that it's just a few parts and a couple of minutes. Put it on, take it off, your choice.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-14-2016, 08:26 PM
Sergntmac Sergntmac is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts
Default

My post revives a thread from 2012. I chose to revive it rather than write my own OP of a new thread. For all of you who chastise the newbie to "do a search", I did...and this is the end result. This is long, go get some fresh whatever you're drinking right now.

To all: please read from the beginning? My comments and remarks will be better understood when you do.

1) I am in the same place as the OP, wanting a M&P pistol, and chose the 9c for purchase. However, I wanted 2 guns, identical in every respect which added some difficulty to my buying experience since there are only 2 LGS within 100 miles of my home. I was elated to find 2 9c pistols at one location, however one was a "civilian" gun and the other a "LE" only gun, as determined by S&W. Minor issue I could address after purchase, or so I was led to believe by the LGS.

Neither gun had a manual safety but the GS at the LGS assured me that he could order the parts for the manual safeties when he ordered the one missing MD. His assurance was so well presented (even showed me the two knock-out tabs on the frames) that I went forward with the purchase. My decision was sealed by a 50 dollar discount on each gun, which would pay for the LGS/GS upgrades. One additional form for S&W on my LEO status, and I took home my two new additions to the collection.

2) As time passed, I grew suspicious of the polished sales approach of the GS. Not hearing any news by TX, I stopped by the LGS for a second helping only to learn that the GS was lacking time in grade but felt that "I went to Smith's Armorer School" was all he needed to be a GS anyway. I recalled that at one time an FFL was required but he assured me that this was no longer the case. In any event, guard up and lesson learned, I moved on.

3) The OP is correct. S&W will not sell any safety parts. In fact, they won't even discuss it after that restriction has been stated. Others whom S&W suggested (Brownells, Midway) would be happy to order the parts for me, just get the part number. Calling back to S&W drew a regurgitation of the same disclaimer, refusing to provide the PN. I was growing very disappointed. I made a foolish decision based in my urgency to go forward with my project AND I spent seed money I was not going to recover without suffering a loss.

4) Visiting the other LGS who employed another GS full-time, I presented my 9c pistols for upgrade. "Magazine disconnect won't be an issue, but the manual safeties...Man, I just don't know. Can you get the parts?" I had to admit defeat. Frozen in place because I didn't know what to do next, I found a 45c in the case. FDE with a manual safety. I looked it over closely before asking the GS if he had another. " Hold on..." And he called a sales tech into the conversation and went back to smithing. The answer was yes, an identical gun was at the warehouse and my plans looked a tad better, again. Traded my 9c pistols for two 45c. The money hurt, but I'll live. Actually, this feeling of "stupid" is more expensive.

My point here is to say..."Y'all on your soap boxes, leave us alone". I know I did not ignore any of the suggested arguments when I selected the M&P line for my project, and I am sure the OP did likewise. This much was obvious, stated early on. Yet you pursue, sometimes ridiculously. Okay, you had your shot, it's over. Those of y'all who tried to help the OP, on his behalf...Thank you.

The OP knows what he wants. I know what I want. The solutions are few, but still possible. So, why did I type so much to say so? Because I can.

I can because in May of 1976, on the west side of Chicago, I dropped the magazine from my Browning Hi-Power and crawled away to take cover and get to my back-up weapon.

There...My story. Me. I am here because of an MD, and a manual safety. If it's a pistol, I will not own anything less capable. Y'all can tell stories built on data and third party re-telling, but I do not have to. Now when y'all say "I know a guy" you can bring them back here.

The OP question was "how". Not "why". Now look at what y'all did.

I expect some flack, but y'all be safe anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-14-2016, 08:51 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,741
Likes: 62
Liked 889 Times in 525 Posts
Default

OK, brief answer: you can get the standard sear block from Brownells. This will include the magazine disconnector but NOT the manual safety.

Sorry to break it to you, but the manual safety cannot be retrofitted. S&W will not sell you any parts related to safety devices. They will provide them to armorers who have graduated from one of their schools, but I'm not real sure if the parts can be retrofitted-SFAIK, the sear block is different and you need the whole item plus the safety parts.

FWIW, I lugged magazine disconnector equipped service pistols for over 20 years and find the fear and loathing associated with them to be ridiculous.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-16-2016, 06:32 AM
SMMAssociates's Avatar
SMMAssociates SMMAssociates is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times in 43 Posts
Smile

I haven't had my M&P40C apart lately, but from memory the magazine disconnect is the same as the "disassembly lever" (that yellow thing), except for some spring loading to force it into the "disconnect" position if the magazine is removed. The disassembly lever doesn't have that spring.

Adding (or removing) that would be trivial, and applies to all of the non-Shield versions (I'm not 100% on the .45 version, but it should be the same).

However, the thumb safety is another animal. The Hilary Lock is not present on/in the sear assembly, and the space where the Lock's hole would be is covered up by some small parts and a spring that do the necessary blocking.

This requires (besides the cutout in the plastic grip) the proper sear assembly, a little spring, and a tiny cam. (And the safety lever.) There's just no place to put these parts in the non-thumb-safety assembly except for cutting the grip for the lever.

(IMHO, the thumb safety may have been an afterthought at S&W. I think that the magazine safety, bearing in mind that Hilary Locks popped into S&W's line for a while back then, came into being when somebody noticed the simplicity of adding it with just a couple of parts.)

I'm neutral on the magazine disconnect. I don't believe that, in extremis, you'd manage to drop a magazine.... But, unless you're married to hot magazine changes (useable round in chamber), I don't see much hurt. YMMV....

The thumb safety, OTOH, just seems to be "right" only in the sense that it operates in the "standard" fashion - "down", rather than "up". I have a couple of older S&W semi's that I don't carry for that reason. Just too easy to move.... (The Shield's thumb safety is closer to reality, although, IMHO, the lever's a tiny bit too small. 1911 folks are at least used to the direction. It's also trivial to remove.)

Unfortunately, it's still (IMHO) a bad idea to remove a manufacturer-supplied safety device....

Regards,
__________________
Stu.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-16-2016, 10:40 AM
McE McE is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 892
Likes: 82
Liked 375 Times in 231 Posts
Default

It'd be easier to educate the wife than to change the gun.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-16-2016, 11:17 AM
McE McE is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 892
Likes: 82
Liked 375 Times in 231 Posts
Default

SKU 206304 for an M&P9C with thumb safety

The usefulness of a mag disconnect is dubious. It's another part that can fail. The thumb safety is the most you would need.

In a tussle, you're more likely to release your magazine on accident than in a super-aware state of "Gee, about to lose control of my gun, better drop the mag to render it useless by the assailant". You want your gun to still shoot after you accidentally drop that mag.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-16-2016, 01:14 PM
gwpercle's Avatar
gwpercle gwpercle is online now
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 2,887
Likes: 1,221
Liked 2,017 Times in 1,124 Posts
Default

I would go with Option # 1.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-16-2016, 02:36 PM
SMMAssociates's Avatar
SMMAssociates SMMAssociates is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times in 43 Posts
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by McE View Post
It'd be easier to educate the wife than to change the gun.
The wife's not all that educable.... My daughter has the 9C with the thumb safety. She understands it. Can't get her to get a license and carry it, though....

The wife doesn't really understand.... Her skill is in cooking, and making decisions with insufficient information.

Regards,
__________________
Stu.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 03-18-2016, 10:25 AM
Gearhead36 Gearhead36 is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 49
Likes: 1
Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts
Default

After reading through this whole thread, I find that I like the idea of a MD. I have no delusion that I will use the feature to disable a weapon in the midst of a firefight, but I like the idea of being able to render the weapon disabled or fully enabled (with a round in the chamber) with a simple mag insertion or removal. There are several scenarios where I think this could be useful. For example, I've toyed with the idea of OC (open carry). But I'm a bit concerned that someone might try to take my weapon and use it on me. If the mag is out, no problem. And I could fairly quickly re-arm it with a quick mag insertion. Given how slow I am drawing from concealment, I bet I could draw from an OWB holster, and insert a mag more quickly. That would be about the same speed as Israeli Carry, but with IC, someone could still use the gun on you.

And given all the Glock ND's from things getting caught on the trigger while re-holstering... mine also has the manual safety. ND's have occurred from a string from a windbreaker getting caught. And with a manual safety, I feel that I can safely lighten the trigger pull, too. A light SA trigger is considered safe on a 1911, right? So no, I don't think that the OP is stupid for wanting this. Frankly, I think that it was a mistake for S&W to remove the MD from the M&P.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 03-18-2016, 02:26 PM
Looktwice&miss Looktwice&miss is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

If you have the sear block with the 1/8" plunger it should allow a safety to be added. You can go to speedshootersupply.com and order the parts, about $25 plus shipping. It's something I also want to do since my 4 other M&P's have safeties. If you look on how the sear block fits into the frame you should be able to see some space on each side under the slide rails and that is where the safety fits.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 03-18-2016, 10:47 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,677
Likes: 1,728
Liked 10,862 Times in 4,462 Posts
Default

Wow, this thread went off the rails really quickly. I apologize to the OP for the abysmal behavior of the forum members here.

The value of the mag disconnect is irrelevant. The value of the thumb safety is irrelevant. What is relevant is what the OP wants. Yes, you can add a thumb safety to any M&P and you can add a mag disconnect. The only issue is how much work are you willing to put in?

To add a thumb safety all you need is the right sear block and associated springs. All recently made M&Ps already have the frame cut to receive the thumb safety.

To add a mag disconnect all you need is the lever and a small spring.

All these parts can be had here: https://www.speedshooterspecialties.com/store/

Quote:
Originally Posted by e.lectronick View Post
Also, to answer another poster's question, there is one thing that the M&P series can do besides weigh less than the Gen 3 pistols: they have a 22LR pistol on the same platform for cheap training.

-Erik
Sorry Erik, but your premise is faulty. You're correct that Glock doesn't make a gun chambered in .22LR. However, there are several makers of slides and barrels chambered for .22LR and they will cost much less than an M&P 22. So, in fact, it's cheaper to buy a Glock and then a slide/barrel to install on the Glock.



Quote:
Originally Posted by McE View Post
It'd be easier to educate the wife than to change the gun.
You know nothing about women if you think it's easier to change a woman's mind than build a gun from scratch.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 03-18-2016, 11:34 PM
Gearhead36 Gearhead36 is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 49
Likes: 1
Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Sorry Erik, but your premise is faulty. You're correct that Glock doesn't make a gun chambered in .22LR.
I believe that he was referring to the Gen3 S&W semi autos.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 03-19-2016, 07:34 AM
Sergntmac Sergntmac is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Update:

Please note that I have been away from semi-automatics for many years, almost 40 years now. But, it's never too late to make a change.

I traded my two M&P 9c pistols for two M&P 45c pistols and I now have manual safeties. Visited the range today and shot about 100 rounds through each pistol. Nice. Very nice.

The trade-off here was firepower, i.e. 12 round mags for 8 round mags. However, this trade-off is balanced out by moving up to a .45acp from the 9mm. I do favor the larger caliber and I laid in a supply of Remington "Golden Sabre" 230g. JHP for duty use. Over the years there has been a lot of improvement in handgun ammunitions and again, very nice. About 950fps at the launch with impressive expansion upon the primary target. Over-penetration and threat to secondary target is greatly reduced, the 9mm is still a bit too hot for my needs, i.e. "urban development", if you get my point.

Problem I am facing now is magazine capacity. S&W advertises 8 round mags, and they are so marked. But, I cannot load more than 7 rounds in any of the supplied mags. Will this improve as time passes?

If I purchase more "genuine S&W" mags from eBay, will I have the same problem?

What color mag spring should I look for?

The discussion over a MD is closed, IMHO. It has already saved my life in a fight over my gun. Anyone who has not fought to that extent, save your breath. Anyone who thinks it cannot happen to you, think again. Those of us who carry a handgun in the line of duty know one thing. There is a gun at every call. If you try to take mine, don't expect to be home for dinner.

Help on magazine capacity for the M&P 45c is greatly appreciated, thank you.

Y'all be safe.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 03-19-2016, 04:49 PM
Gearhead36 Gearhead36 is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 49
Likes: 1
Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts
Default

OK. Are these the parts needed?
Mag Safety Lever
Mag Safety Lever Spring

If so, is there a writeup somewhere detailing how to install these parts?
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 03-19-2016, 04:52 PM
Rastoff's Avatar
Rastoff Rastoff is offline
Member
Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety? Can you add Magazine Disconnect or Safety?  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: So Cal (Near Edwards AFB)
Posts: 11,677
Likes: 1,728
Liked 10,862 Times in 4,462 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead36 View Post
I believe that he was referring to the Gen3 S&W semi autos.
Ooops, I rescind my comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergntmac
Help on magazine capacity for the M&P 45c is greatly appreciated, thank you.
Many have had trouble getting that last round into a new M&P mag and not just in .45ACP. The last round is stiff, but can be done.

First, take your mags apart and ensure the spring is not bound up. This has been seen in a few mags. Second, assist yourself by getting one of these:



It makes loading much easier. It also gives you a little more leverage for that last round.
__________________
Freedom isn't free.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
226, 22a, 22lr, 3913, 5903, 5906, ccw, classics, concealed, glock, lock, m39, military, model 39, remington, ruger, smith & wesson, smith and wesson, tactical, victory

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Install magazine disconnect safety? RoosterDude11 Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 26 03-29-2017 10:15 AM
S&W M&P22 Teardown howto, remove thumb safety or magazine disconnect Spart S&W-Smithing 0 05-04-2016 11:52 PM
Magazine Disconnect Safety schmitty133 Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 7 03-25-2014 10:11 PM
m&p magazine disconnect safety removal BBS1 Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 13 03-02-2013 11:27 AM
Need SKU for M&P 45 without Thumb Safety and Mag Disconnect TSQUARED Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 10 06-09-2010 01:40 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:46 PM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)