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  #51  
Old 04-25-2012, 07:08 PM
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I will be buying the Shield and will not use the manual safety. It would be really nice if Smith and Wesson would eventually make a Shield in .45 ACP say 5 + 1 in the flush magazine. I would buy it in a second but I wouldn't buy the XDS due the grip safety.

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  #52  
Old 04-25-2012, 07:56 PM
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I own two M&Ps. One has the thumb safety that I use and the other has no thumb safety that I can use. If I had one I would sure use it. I am an older fart also who grew up on the 1911 with one in the chamber and carried cocked & locked. I will likely add the thumb safety to my M&P without one.

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  #53  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:45 PM
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MichiganScott makes a good point about gaining points in some states because the safety is present.LAWYERS-another good point....but here's my take on it also.
Mark my words,without a doubt there will be someone out there with pockets large enough to pocket carry it,and there are more than you might think,who will drop it into a pocket with keys,pens, change,marbles,or whatever you can imagine that will get lodged in the trigger guard and will pull even the Shield trigger.
So I suppose they are protecting themselves from a suit for an inadvertant discharge,even though it was the idiot carrier's own fault. Happened before,and will happen again.
I'm pretty much an RKBA fanatic,but if I admit it to myself,there really are some people out there who have no business with a firearm.
I wouldn't normally use that safety and might not ever use it,but as I've said before,I think it's so low profile that it's really not a concern on this pistol. It's there if you want it,but I don't believe accidentally engaging it is that probable due to the design.At least it was well thought out.Just my own opinion and observations.I am speaking particularly of the Shield here,but on the others there is at least the option of buying one without the safety.
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  #54  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:55 AM
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(I really need to at least get my hands on a Shield....)

The thumb safety on the older M&P's is very easy to engage or disengage. There are mods to change that, but it's probably best to train for switching it on and off if present. I sure wouldn't trust it in a pocket. Best would be a proper holster. I still can't remember whether the one I'm using for the M&P's was purchased for them, or for an XD9SC, but it works & fits just fine. (Leather - YMMV with Kydex.)

It looks like the Shield's thumb safety could be trusted to stay wherever you put it, but I'm a teensy bit uncertain about that.

(I found that the nominal value of the grip safety on the XD9SC was a joke.... When holstering, I tended to depress the grip safety.... Depressing? FWIW, I liked that gun. Just liked the M&P more....)

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  #55  
Old 04-27-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnage_7 View Post
Because that's what a lot of (gun-dumb) customers want!!!
You call us "gun dumb", but you are the one walking around with a loaded gun, fully cocked, one in the tube, NO MANUEL SAFETY, and one mistake away from shooting yourself, a family member, or someone else, and you call us dumb??????????
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:20 PM
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....I don't "fidget" or have adult A D D but I do like to carry in the small of the back and so when I do, a more positive safety is something that makes me feel a bit more secure (knowing where my gun is pointed when holstered).
Also, after a lengthy conversation with my wife in choosing her ccw, I just couldn't argue the point she made that "what's the harm having a frame safety and just not using it if you don't want to". In her case she uses them always. If a safety wasn't on her rig, she would not carry a round in the chamber. In my opinion, I'd rather she flip the safety rather than rack the slide.
  #57  
Old 04-27-2012, 04:51 PM
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While deployed in Iraq, I saw several times where Joe's hand would grab the grip of the rifle, finger in the trigger guard and on the trigger after initially taking fire. If not for the manual safety, there would have been many more ND's. Some of these Joe's were seasoned and well trained, but the fact remains that until it really comes down to the wire, you don't know how you will react. I have not seen any amount of training that can truly prepare you for a real life or death situation. So to insult someone who wants a safety is just ignorant and usually spoken by those who never had to face a true SYP situation.

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Old 04-27-2012, 04:53 PM
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I guess if you are Joe Q. Crime Fighter who faces danger at every turn and are constantly involved in gun battles then yeah I guess a safety would be a major inconvenience.But for the general gun carrying public I really don't understand why so many are against it.If you're totally cognizant of everything 100% of the time with no distractions and never been known to have a lapse of memory and you are totally in control of every waking second of every single day,well you know.Anyhow all I can say is that if I hear "The gun went off"one more time on the news I think I'm gonna throw up.Wonder if those guns had safeties.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:30 PM
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Not an issue here in Massachusetts since none of the M&P's with thumb safeties are on the state approved firearm list.
  #60  
Old 04-27-2012, 07:10 PM
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I ordered my 9 with thumb safety. I had a 3913 with safety/decocker and got used to it. I don't know what the fuss is about, if you want one get one, if not, order it without. Calling some one gun dumb or inferring one camp is better than the other is time misspent. Let's discuss something that really benefits all of us. Like this. If S&W deemed it good to put a thumb safety on the M&P's, why didn't they make it a little harder to work. Mine seems way too easy to accidentally take the safety off.
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  #61  
Old 04-27-2012, 08:05 PM
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I really like a thumb safety on a hand gun (not on the Shield through). Not to protect myself from.... well myself, but to protect myself against a successful gun grab. In the heat of the moment, the other person wouldn't even know there is a safety on the gun and by the time they try to do anything about it I would have already have my BUG in gear.

I learned this from personal experience as my dad is still alive today because he carried a gun with a safety on it and the other guy couldn't fire it. With that being said, when I ordered my M&Ps, non of them came with a safety as I like to keep my guns as uniform as possible so if one gun as a safety, all of them would have to have to one.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:16 PM
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We did somewthing similar in the early seventies.We had an officer killed with his partner's gun,and many of us started carrying the first chamber empty in our revolvers.
Gun grabs were quite common then.We knew that if we had to shoot it would take two fast trigger pulls to fire,but we didn't feel disadvantaged by that.
We felt that if the revolver was snatched,it would surprise the miscreant long enogh for us to move and access our back up revolver.Fortunately no one ever had to prove the theory,but I still think it was a good idea for those times.
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  #63  
Old 04-27-2012, 08:28 PM
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Perhaps I should have stated earlier why I see little sense in the thumb or frame safety for a striker fired weapon as there is no hammer to strike a firing pin and make the gun go bang from dropping it. With a striker fired gun the trigger is pretty much the only method of making the gun go bang, both Glock and Smith and Wesson approach the use of the trigger in different methods that both act as safeties the Smith uses a cantilever trigger and Glock has the weird looking two part trigger.

When I pull a weapon it is 98% certain that my next action is to use the weapon and that means that first I will draw the weapon and then acquire a sight picture and then squeeze the trigger to hit a target. I keep a round in the chamber of all my weapons (now with my model 59 I do have a safety and it does have a hammer so I do use the safety on that weapon only) my M&P's do not have a hammer because they are striker fired weapons and if they fall or get dropped to the ground they can not go off, you must pull the trigger for them to fire and this is the most modern method of firing a gun so the old steel and heavy guns of the past need this kind of stuff but the new guns are more sophisticated then that and take a different mindset.

It reminds me of my father who was a creature of habit who I asked one day as we were returning to the shop why did he get off the interstate 65 at Trinity Lane and then go through three school zones @ 15 mph only to get back on I-65 at Briley Parkway and then get off at Old Hickory Boulevard in Madison Tennessee taking about an extra 30 minutes each day and his answer was "that was the way he always went home to the shop" to which I said "Dad they completed I-65 15 years ago you don't have to get off on Trinity Lane and take Dickerson to Briley to get back on 65." He thought for a minute and said "you know you are right but it is just a habit and starting tomorrow I am gonna stay on 65 till the Old Hickory Boulevard exit and he did and we then saved 30 to 45 minutes from just going through school zones for no reason not to mention a slower speed limit.

So just because that is the way you have always done something does not mean that it is safer or better or even faster and it might be costly in other matters! This is my opinion but for those that feel better with a safety then fine with me I have one M&P with a safety and it is my newest 40 fullsize and if it is not on my person then yes I do put the safety on but if I put it on myself the safety is off!
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  #64  
Old 04-27-2012, 09:22 PM
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Shooting Padre, you are right about the M&P safety being too easy to actuate. I like a 1911 style safety that has a definitive lock when snapped on or off.
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cervantes2010 View Post
I still think S&W should have offered the Shield with a choice of external safety or not; like on the other M&P pistols. If they had, I would have picked one up w/o the external safety. Unless they do, I know quite a few shooters who are shying away. It's just one more thing that could malfunction at the wrong time.

Skip
ditto for me. i will buy one only if it has no thumb safety.
  #66  
Old 04-28-2012, 03:38 PM
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I dont understand the confusion about the safety. What difference does it make if the gun is striker fired, hammer fired, impact fired, or sneeze fired? A safety prevents the trigger from actuating the firing mechanism (I think!). If you like that feature, get it. If not, dont get it.

Even on the guns I own that do have a safety, I dont consider them safe. Because they're guns. Ever get into a colorful conversation with a Glock owner who swears their pistol can not be discharged negligently because they have a "safe action trigger"? There are those who believe this BS! Real safeties are very simple, but there seems to be so much disagreement/confusion about when to safety and when not to safety! It's kinda like arguing over which color is more delicious; orange or yellow
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:56 PM
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The M&P's thumb safety is a trigger block. It won't prevent any sort of true AD (as in "dropping the gun and disengaging the sear"), although the drop safety will do that.

The thumb safety in a 1911 is a hammer block. It won't prevent an AD from dropping the gun, either, but more recent 1911's may have a drop safety (either the Colt design that ended up in the Series 80, the Swartz - pre WWII design that Colt dropped, but Kimber uses, or something else) that covers the problem. The grip safety is a trigger block like that in the M&P.

S&W's "wondernines" and similar designs (my old M39-2) have a thumb safety that functions as a decocker, and locks the firing pin. Pretty much absolutely safe, but the fool thing is backwards compared to the 1911, and some models only use the lever as a decocker. I think they stole this from the Walther people - my PPK/S has the same setup.

We end up with "dropping the gun", which is probably a very unlikely occurrence (when it results in a discharge, that is), foreign materials (shirt tail, for example) in the trigger, and various finger on the trigger issues.

A firing pin (or striker) block (on both the M&P and current 1911's) may be the only way to deal with a "drop" situation, as unlikely as this is. In the 1911 line, a titanium firing pin (extra weight) seems to be the way around this without adding extra parts, if I remember right.

The various magic triggers in the M&P or Glock really don't help much if you get something in the trigger, but a trigger block type thumb or grip safety can help.

The hammer block safety (1911's and the PPK-style guns) may or may not (the 1911's won't) keep you from a "drop" discharge, but we've pretty well counted that out of the problem area anyway.

Overall, IMHO, it's what feels good for you. The thumb safety in the M&P can be "tuned" a little to make it a bit stiffer, or a bit looser. I'd like mine to be stiffer. But I've got one on my usual carry M&P40C because I'm a 1911 guy and just used (conditioned!) to flip off the safety. IMHO, you don't otherwise need it.

"The other guy"? I'm not sure any of us would manage to flip ON a safety, or drop a magazine in a "gun grab" situation, however if somebody's taking the gun from your holster, that's a different animal. BUT, IMHO, that's most likely in a "uniformed officer" situation, which isn't really applicable to the non-LEO. I don't think the average non-LEO need to think about that.

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  #68  
Old 04-28-2012, 11:02 PM
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My thoughts exactly. I don't mind the mag disconnect either. If you're struggling with someone as they try to snatch the firearm, pop the mag release and render it useless. While they point it at you and try to make it go "bang", you either run away or draw your secondary firearm and handle the situation.

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Originally Posted by Knightrider03m View Post
I really like a thumb safety on a hand gun (not on the Shield through). Not to protect myself from.... well myself, but to protect myself against a successful gun grab. In the heat of the moment, the other person wouldn't even know there is a safety on the gun and by the time they try to do anything about it I would have already have my BUG in gear.

I learned this from personal experience as my dad is still alive today because he carried a gun with a safety on it and the other guy couldn't fire it.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Etemmu View Post
I dont understand the confusion about the safety. What difference does it make if the gun is striker fired, hammer fired, impact fired, or sneeze fired? A safety prevents the trigger from actuating the firing mechanism (I think!). If you like that feature, get it. If not, dont get it.

Even on the guns I own that do have a safety, I dont consider them safe. Because they're guns. Ever get into a colorful conversation with a Glock owner who swears their pistol can not be discharged negligently because they have a "safe action trigger"? There are those who believe this BS! Real safeties are very simple, but there seems to be so much disagreement/confusion about when to safety and when not to safety! It's kinda like arguing over which color is more delicious; orange or yellow
Couldn't agree with you more... Think Plaxico Burriss knew whether his gun was striker fired, hammer fired, sneeze fired, or even cared???... Bottom line is, the trigger was accidently pulled while the gun (GLOCK) was in his pocket and he ended up with a hole in his leg!!!...Could have been, just as easily, another patron... Bet he wishes his gun would have had a manuel safety...
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etemmu View Post
I dont understand the confusion about the safety. What difference does it make if the gun is striker fired, hammer fired, impact fired, or sneeze fired? A safety prevents the trigger from actuating the firing mechanism (I think!). If you like that feature, get it. If not, dont get it.

Even on the guns I own that do have a safety, I dont consider them safe. Because they're guns. Ever get into a colorful conversation with a Glock owner who swears their pistol can not be discharged negligently because they have a "safe action trigger"? There are those who believe this BS! Real safeties are very simple, but there seems to be so much disagreement/confusion about when to safety and when not to safety! It's kinda like arguing over which color is more delicious; orange or yellow
Couldn't agree with you more... Think Plaxico Burriss knew whether his gun was striker fired, hammer fired, sneeze fired, or even cared???... Bottom line is, the trigger was accidently pulled while the gun (GLOCK, you know the one with 3 safeties including that "safe action" trigger) was in his pocket and he ended up with a hole in his leg!!!...Could have been, just as easily, another patron... Bet he wishes his gun would have had a manuel safety...YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!
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Old 04-29-2012, 03:25 PM
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I have 5 M&P's. Four FS with out thumb safeties. Did have my doubts with the first one (that didn't last long), zero second thoughts on the next three FS. NO thumb safeties.
I DO like the thumb safety on the 9 Shield. It's a no use if holstered and a positive on if stuffed in a pocket or purse. It's a no brainer on why they put it on the Shield.
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Old 04-29-2012, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Carnage_7 View Post
Because that's what a lot of (gun-dumb) customers want!!!
So some of us is DUMB what are you??
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:31 PM
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Just like Horace & Daniel's said LAWYERS. God forbid one ever have to use his or her gun to defend themselves and cause the demise of a bad person(s), he defense lawyers would love to have that extra argument point that his or her client even made a conscious decision to purchase a gun with extra safety features (THUMB SAFETY) on it. Establishing that the shooter was not some gun nut prowling around the neighborhood looking for a quick draw gun fight. I dont know how that is GUN DUMB as one of our resident Einstein here suggest.
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlhumphrey View Post
Couldn't agree with you more... Think Plaxico Burriss knew whether his gun was striker fired, hammer fired, sneeze fired, or even cared???... Bottom line is, the trigger was accidently pulled while the gun (GLOCK, you know the one with 3 safeties including that "safe action" trigger) was in his pocket and he ended up with a hole in his leg!!!...Could have been, just as easily, another patron... Bet he wishes his gun would have had a manuel safety...YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!
very well said.. here's your sign..
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:48 PM
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why not just ask S&W, WHY, and see what their answer is. pyper
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:51 PM
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The reason I want an external safety on a handgun, is in the event that a bad guy grabs my handgun, chances are he will not know it has a safety giving me an advantage to get my gun back without being shot.

Is it really that hard to put a safety on a handgun? I am finding it increasingly difficult to find a good quality handgun with a safety.

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Old 07-12-2012, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by pyper22 View Post
why not just ask S&W, WHY, and see what their answer is. pyper
I did that very thing in an armorer class.

The answer was pretty simple ... and Capt Crunch nailed it earlier.

The anticipated military pistol testing being discussed back when the M&P 45 was in development specified a model equipped with one, and S&W pretty much built the M&P 45 so it would meet the anticipated specification requirements. (That's also why the M&P 45 had a different extractor pin, making it potentially easier for military armorer service & repair.)

Naturally, once a certain segment of the commercial public found out there was a M&P 45 made with a thumb safety, they wanted it.

Then they wanted the manual safety available on the other models. (Of course)

The sudden public demand reportedly caught S&W by surprise. They ended up having to revise their frames and sear housings to accept the thumb safety (which, as has been mentioned, blocks the trigger bar).

Of course, once it became a production feature ... then a certain segment of people complained about having thumb safeties.

They apparently listened to the market studies when they were designing the M&P Shield, and included the manual safety as a "standard" feature.

Naturally ... big surprise ... people are complaining about it having a thumb safety.

Hard to please everyone, isn't it?

FWIW, I have a pair of M&P pistols ... 1 w/thumb safeties & 1 w/o. Both work just fine for me.
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Fastbolt View Post
I did that very thing in an armorer class.

The answer was pretty simple ... and Capt Crunch nailed it earlier.

The anticipated military pistol testing being discussed back when the M&P 45 was in development specified a model equipped with one, and S&W pretty much built the M&P 45 so it would meet the anticipated specification requirements. (That's also why the M&P 45 had a different extractor pin, making it potentially easier for military armorer service & repair.)

Naturally, once a certain segment of the commercial public found out there was a M&P 45 made with a thumb safety, they wanted it.

Then they wanted the manual safety available on the other models. (Of course)

The sudden public demand reportedly caught S&W by surprise. They ended up having to revise their frames and sear housings to accept the thumb safety (which, as has been mentioned, blocks the trigger bar).

Of course, once it became a production feature ... then a certain segment of people complained about having thumb safeties.

They apparently listened to the market studies when they were designing the M&P Shield, and included the manual safety as a "standard" feature.

Naturally ... big surprise ... people are complaining about it having a thumb safety.

Hard to please everyone, isn't it?

FWIW, I have a pair of M&P pistols ... 1 w/thumb safeties & 1 w/o. Both work just fine for me.
I just purchased an M&P 40. Do you know if it is possible to install the optional thumb safety in a model that does not have one? The model I bought did not come with one.
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:11 PM
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The reason I want an external safety on a handgun, is in the event that a bad guy grabs my handgun, chances are he will not know it has a safety giving me an advantage to get my gun back without being shot.

Is it really that hard to put a safety on a handgun? I am finding it increasingly difficult to find a good quality handgun with a safety.
Those chances are more than likely slim and none and the BG already has the advantage, they aren't dumb. He already attacked you taking advantage, he has your gun and chances are good he already knows how to use it, safety or no saftey. Chances are you'd already be disabled from the first attack and couldn't fight to get it back.
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:27 PM
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Im sorry but this is by far the dumbest thread iv read on this forum. If the safety botheres buy another gun. Its a safety incase the trigger is pulled. There are instances were ppl put finger on trigger on accident and pull the trigger. Quit bitching overnstupid **** please.
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bpickell View Post
The reason I want an external safety on a handgun, is in the event that a bad guy grabs my handgun, chances are he will not know it has a safety giving me an advantage to get my gun back without being shot.

Is it really that hard to put a safety on a handgun? I am finding it increasingly difficult to find a good quality handgun with a safety.
wOw .. really? You shouldn't need external gun safeties if you know how to properly handle a gun and have trained and practice. IMO, your finger off the trigger, until needed and your brain should be sufficient.

The safety on the Shield is a non issue as I keep it disengaged. I believe S&W put it there because they knew people would improperly jam the gun into a pocket (and quite possibly with objects) causing a AD.

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Old 07-15-2012, 06:13 PM
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Im sorry but this is by far the dumbest thread iv read on this forum. If the safety botheres buy another gun. Its a safety incase the trigger is pulled. There are instances were ppl put finger on trigger on accident and pull the trigger. Quit bitching overnstupid **** please.
Since you've just joined your post can be forgiven-If you read some more you will see a lot of much dumber treads that have been posted
We ain't happy unless we're fighting!
Me-I owned one without and have always been leery about not having a safety on it-I'm kinda a belts and suspenders guy. Sold it and got one with the safety-it's amphibious which I need since I'm a southpaw. I like the idea of a safety on a striker fired gun as I carry it in my car and NOT in a holster and the thought of the trigger snagging on something in the console...well
But as I said before, I do NOT have safeties on my revolvers. Big difference between the amount of force on a trigger to fire a double action revolver at rest as opposed to firing an M&P with a round chambered. Call me Mr. Dumb S*** if you want, but I like safeties on my guns (except magazine safeties-don't like magazine safeties no. )

Take the Shield for instance-what an absolutely DUMB name!!!! Every time I see a "shield " thread I think panty liners

Now back to your post-if you want to see some really dumb threads, they're out there but you have to look
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  #83  
Old 07-15-2012, 10:49 PM
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Cajun:

"Amphibious"?

About the console: May I suggest a cheap holster secured to something in the console.... This could make re-holstering safer at little cost (i.e., Uncle Mike's ).

bpickell:

Presuming your BG has any jail time, he's already been to the "school of crime", and probably knows how to switch off the safety on about any gun he's likely to run into. And double for LEO's weapons.... Besides, it's pretty simple - if there is a safety lever, it goes up or down. All he has to know is which way is "Fire", and unless he's just grabbed it out of your holster, or in your initial presentation, it's pretty likely to be "the other way" from where it is....

(There are some S&W guns, in particular, where the safety lever is a decocker, and springs back. The BG can ignore this type....)

Some guys carry S&W guns without a decocker (but with a safety) with the safety off - the fool thing is hard to move....

Just IMHO, the tough part is for us to learn to switch the safety off during presentation. Getting it back on before a BG can get it from you isn't likely to happen.... And, it's quite clear to me, at least, that you must turn the safety off during presentation or the gun is just an expensive club....

So, flipping the safety on (or dropping a magazine to engage a magazine safety) when somebody's trying to grab your weapon, is going to take more time (and probably more luck) than you have.

MANY downsides to carrying on an empty chamber, but that's really a heck of a lot safer in a grab situation....

(Many years ago, when I was working - rent-a-cop - in uniform, I used to run into suggestions to carry my "visible" sidearm empty, and a good BUG to actually use, should it be necessary. Probably not a good idea for concealed carry folks....)

IMHO (I haven't handled one yet) the Shield's safety is such that leaving it on or off is your choice, and isn't likely to change it's state without you actually doing something to it. Not so, IMHO, with the larger M&P's. My 40C has never bothered to do it, but the rather large ambi lever set is asking for it. Since my EDC is an Officer's-sized 1911, I'm trained up on flipping the safety off anyway, which makes it a non-problem for me, but I don't see it as impossible. There is a mod out there for making the thumb safety stiffer (or looser - your pick) on the M&P's, and you can do the same to a 1911.

Adding a thumb safety to an existing gun? That can take serious changes to the gun's internals.... It's pretty clear that the thumb safety on the older M&P's required a completely different (and minus the "Hilary Lock") verson of the sear block, as well as a some new parts. Some areas require that fool lock, making the thumb safety version a tad harder to sell in those states....

It also helps when the design allows for an easy "upgrade" - the change in the M&P's looks to have pretty simple. I'm not sure if the original design presumed that this would be done or not. It appears that the thumb safety was designed in the original version. Looks to me like an ambi version for the Shield probably would be pretty easy to come up with, but as mentioned before, the cost of the mold changes to the plastic "frame" could be a killer.

Overall, don't expect to add a thumb safety to a gun that didn't come with one....

Regards,
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Old 07-15-2012, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kris7047th View Post
wOw .. really? You shouldn't need external gun safeties if you know how to properly handle a gun and have trained and practice. IMO, your finger off the trigger, until needed and your brain should be sufficient.

The safety on the Shield is a non issue as I keep it disengaged. I believe S&W put it there because they knew people would improperly jam the gun into a pocket (and quite possibly with objects) causing a AD.
I don't understand where the condescension is coming from. I never said anything about me wanting the manual safety because I don't know how to handle a gun safely.

I want one in the event a bad guy were to grab my gun from my holster.

And not every bad guy on the planet knows how every safety works. A safety on my dads 1911 saved his life ten years ago. A bad guy grabbed his gun and tried to shoot him with it. The safety was on and my dad was able to pull his backup and shoot the guy before he could disengage the safety.
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:57 PM
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Why would anyone want a thumb safety on an M&P so now bear with me on this? The M&P like the Glock is a striker fired weapon and there is no hammer to strike the firing pin which could possibly fire if the weapon were to be dropped but there is no hammer on an M&P!

While I do have one M&P that does have one just like my old model 59 it also has a mag disconnect the same as my model 59 but I bought it for a good price and don't even use the safety as it is unnecessary.

The only way a striker fired weapon will go off is if the trigger is pulled and with the cantilever or two stage trigger design that M&P has this almost has to be a purposeful act.

I own 5 M&P's 7 if you count the .357SIG barrels I have for my 40c and 40 fullsize and all are always fully loaded at all times even in the safe. I have had a Model 59 since 1982 and the same is true with it and it nor any other weapon has ever gone off without me pulling the trigger. Now I do chamber a round in them all and with the model 59 since it has a hammer I do engage the safety and disengage when ready to fire the weapon, it is natural as I am sure thumb safety is with those that carry the 1911 type weapons.

Can someone come up with a good reason to have a thumb safety on a striker fired weapon, I would sure like to hear it because I can see no logical reason for one in the first place!
THIS is why. Fatal Accident with M&P in Detroit Poor girl was working her way through college when BAM
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:44 PM
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The internet has allowed mall ninjas to multiply at a geometric rate, causing too many gun owners to believe that "the only safety is between my ears" and "a safety is a good way to get yourself killed". it's an absolute joke. 99.999% of gun owners will never fire a shot in a life or death scenario, yet they handle a loaded weapon multiple times aday, where there is a very real possibility of an ND, especially since they're so supremely confident that "my safety is between my ears". Ppeople screw up, even experts. Take the time to LEARN how to properly manipulate a safety and it's not an issue. for every 1 scenario you can give me of a safety causing a death (not thinking it's on and pulling the trigger- that's a Darwin Award winner), but actually not being able to fire when you need to, and I'll show you 100 where the lack of a safety caused a death or injury. Every night, I draw my 3913 and flick off safe 100 times. Takes less than 10 minutes. Flicking off that safety adds no time to my draw, and it is as automatic as stepping on the brake pedal before shifting into drive. These striker fired guns are actually MARKETED as being "so simple you need a minimal amount of training to be proficient". The ONE thing that should NOT be "so simple even a caveman can do it" is a firearm. It's the reason police departments even went to them, so they don't have to spend as much time on the range.

The NYPD authorized three guns, the Glock 19, S&W 5946, and SIG 226. At the time I retired, NOT ONE ND was with the SIG or S&W, both hammer fired. EVERY ONE of them was ith a Glock.

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Old 07-16-2012, 07:25 PM
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Most guns are designed to not fire unless the trigger is pulled. However, sometimes people have a brain fart and stick their finger into trigger guard when they shouldn't.

Ask the DC police why their locker rooms wound up with holes in the walls after they switched to Glocks.
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:26 AM
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I think it's what you're accustomed to. I grew up around long guns with safeties and carried a Colt 1911....8 hours a day....7 days a week for 3 months as a permanent gate guard overseas. My M&P doesn't have it...but if I'd checked it out a little closer when I bought it...it would have it.
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:36 AM
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Can't keep a good thread down
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Houdini1953 View Post
Can someone come up with a good reason to have a thumb safety on a striker fired weapon, I would sure like to hear it because I can see no logical reason for one in the first place!
I'll give you a few reasons for the safety:
  • safer reholstering
  • contract requirements
  • 1911 shooters prefer them
  • officer survival in the event of a snatched weapon

There, now you know.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post
The internet has allowed mall ninjas to multiply at a geometric rate...
Ppeople screw up [all the time!], even experts.
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Originally Posted by Fat Old Guy View Post
Most guns are designed to not fire unless the trigger is pulled. However...
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Originally Posted by wolfpackpanther View Post
I think it's what you're accustomed to...
I don't know what Shield06 is talking about! I think this has been a great thread. Just look at the wisdom!

My apologies for trying to "improve" Kbm6893's post. It really didn't need it.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:03 AM
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I don't know what Shield06 is talking about! I think this has been a great thread. Just look at the wisdom!

My apologies for trying to "improve" Kbm6893's post. It really didn't need it.
Nice to hear from some sensible gun owners, M29! Don't you laugh when you go to the range and see the new shooters wielding their Glocks and other similar weapons and obviously not knowing what they are doing!

be well.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:29 PM
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Trust me, I don't laugh. My only concern is in staying out of their way!

Have you ever noticed how it is never just one man with his pistol, practicing and minding his own business? There is ALWAYS an audience.
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:30 PM
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I prefer one and my M&P45 has one. My first handgun was a 1911 so I am very comfortable with the safety on an M&P as well. Now I have been around firearms since I was 6 (I'm 42 so you do the math since I run out of finger and toes) and have been an instructor now for 6 years so I tend to think I'm not gun dumb. The other reason I tend to think I'm not gun dumb is because I also know how the design works. When the slide is forward, the striker is fully retracted and held in place by the sear. Hmm, kind of like a 1911 with it's hammer cocked and the hammer is held in that cocked position by the sear. The trigger of the M&P is hinged. The 1911 has a grip safety. Yeah, if you drop a pre-80 series 1911 you can have a discharge but the 80 series 1911 and M&P both feature feature a firing pin block that prevents the firing pin from moving forward unless the trigger is pulled. I have yet to meet the instructor that advocates the carrying of a 1911 with one in the chamber, hammer cocked and the safety in the off position! Now why is that and what is the difference between the 1911 and the M&P? If we go by the "Blackhawk Down" mentality of waving a finger in the air and proclaiming, "this is my safety", why the heavy triggers? Why not have a carry gun with a sub-2 pound match trigger? Hey, if we're always going to keep our finger off the trigger, why not? It's a lot easier to shoot, right? No, before you consider somebody "gun-dumb", you might want to be more familiar with the inner workings of the gun in question.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:47 PM
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Just keep the safety in the "off" position and stop whining if you don't like the safety.....or buy a Glock. Now Problem solved.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:51 PM
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Just keep the safety in the "off" position and stop whining if you don't like the safety.....or buy a Glock. Now Problem solved.
...or go purchase the M&P pistol variant with no safety.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:06 PM
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Houdini,

My gunsmith is now a factory-trained M&P armorer. Before relinquishing his M&P 45 to a valued friend, he made the piece the best he could with his new-found skills. A 3.5lbs trigger and other mods made it a wonderful shooter.

Enter his good friend who was out of work and needed a pistol for his armed security job in Los Angeles. One night, his friend was jumped by several 'Cholos' and was relieved of his M&P.

My gunsmith's friend (mid 50s and a nice guy) couldn't understand when the lead 'Cholo' was pointing the gun at him the muzzle dipped several times. My gunsmith (b.burris handle on this forum) told him that the reason was because he had it on safe and that the new owner was attempting to dispatch the former owner.

I'm a 3rd Gen guy. The safeties ARE the reason...
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  #98  
Old 11-13-2012, 11:21 PM
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sshakrr sshakrr is offline
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Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol!  
Join Date: May 2012
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Just bought an M&P 9 w/thumb safety. Get it on sunday. Took me a while to find one with it. Like the range kit, but no safety. Its all about what you want. My guns, my options.
  #99  
Old 11-15-2012, 12:50 PM
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Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol!  
Join Date: Jun 2012
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If only his safety were on!

1. He's obviously thinks he's smart enough not to need one! (Boy was he WRONG!)

2. He's stupid enough to bring a loaded gun (And Demonstrate with it) into a classroom of children!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0
  #100  
Old 11-15-2012, 12:53 PM
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Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&amp;P Pistol!  
Join Date: Jun 2012
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Have Another!

Original Upload, I Just Shot Myself! - YouTube
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