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  #151  
Old 04-10-2016, 09:50 PM
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Why have a thumb safety on an M&P Pistol!  
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Originally Posted by Houdini1953 View Post

Can someone come up with a good reason to have a thumb safety on a striker fired weapon, I would sure like to hear it because I can see no logical reason for one in the first place!
You really must be a deep thinker.

SOMEONE who makes their living Selling and marketing guns can estimate HOW many people will want it, which jurisdiction might require it and how many people transitioning from guns with a safety would appreciate it.

Remember, S&W knows a LOT more about guns and selling them than YOU do.
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Old 04-10-2016, 10:08 PM
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I think that the thumb safety on the Shield is a particularly good idea. This is a gun that will be carried for years and likely never used. The operator is far more at risk from handling error than not being able to deploy it instantly in an emergency. Besides, with some careful training, good muscle memory can be developed to present and fire the Shield safely and in a very good speed. Big secret to that small little thumb safety is to press the thumb hard into the slide while working the safety.

For those who want to use the Glock, there is a very good technique to ensure 100% safety re-holstering in blind areas. Use a "clip on" IWB holster and when re-holstering, remove the holster from the belt. Then holster the Glock into the holster in front of you. Now take that IWB holster with Glock inside of it as a unit and replace the holster/gun unit into your waist band. Takes very little extra time, but offers complete control and safety. This will of course work with any striker weapon that does not have an external safety, like the non-safety M&P.

These are only my thoughts on the matter of external safeties. I am always open to other ideas to consider, so please do chime in if you have a good idea that has worked for you. I really liked some of the past posts stating that different people have different preferences.

Last edited by Mountain Walker; 04-10-2016 at 10:25 PM.
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  #153  
Old 04-11-2016, 01:29 AM
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Default California and Not Understanding

When the M&P came out with the manual safety it may have been to get sales in California. (Large population) and most of the prospective buyers not understanding the DAO trigger is a safety.
For over a hundred years LE officers from local to federal carried revolvers that had no manual safeties.
For serious SD situations that happen in a few seconds pointing and pulling the trigger is all there is.
Glock is one of the examples in that there aren't any manual safeties.
Many folks want to change a designed for SD situations pistol and want it to be their range pistol, so start making changes. I've carried for sixty years. The first 24 LE. No manual safeties during that time.
G'luck and stay safe.
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  #154  
Old 04-11-2016, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
This subject is reaching the heights of AR vs AK and caliber wars. S&W offered thumb safeties on M&P's because some police departments, (the original target audience), required them, same-same mag safeties. Don't understand the controversy. It's like choosing between a car with buckets and a floor shift, or the same one with a split bench and column shift. Whatever floats your boat.
I think the key point here is not that one is better than the other universally but rather that each has pros and cons - but more importantly that each individual should be aware of the pros and cons of each and choose (and train) based on that awareness.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:15 AM
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Maybe I missed it but if you have a Shield, aside from "guns are always to be considered loaded," how is it possible to know there is or is not a round in the chamber?

I know, I know, there's a "loaded chamber indicator" either a tiny hole to visually check or a protruding ramp for tactile confirmation. Mine has the little hole. If it's dark it doesn't work.

Aside from racking the slide enough to see if the bullet fairy left one ready to go, how does one know? Safeties definitely have their place.
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  #156  
Old 04-11-2016, 10:40 AM
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It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
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Old 04-11-2016, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Houdini1953 View Post
DATED 04-23-2012, 04:16 PM
Can someone come up with a good reason to have a thumb safety on a striker fired weapon, I would sure like to hear it because I can see no logical reason for one in the first place!
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Originally Posted by Name witheld View Post
DATED 4/10/2016, 06:50 PM
You really must be a deep thinker.

SOMEONE who makes their living Selling and marketing guns can estimate HOW many people will want it, which jurisdiction might require it and how many people transitioning from guns with a safety would appreciate it.

Remember, S&W knows a LOT more about guns and selling them than YOU do.
Can SOMEONE come up with a good reason to answer a question posted FOUR YEARS AGO?
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Old 04-11-2016, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Mountain Walker View Post
For those who want to use the Glock, there is a very good technique to ensure 100% safety re-holstering in blind areas. Use a "clip on" IWB holster and when re-holstering, remove the holster from the belt. Then holster the Glock into the holster in front of you. Now take that IWB holster with Glock inside of it as a unit and replace the holster/gun unit into your waist band. Takes very little extra time, but offers complete control and safety. This will of course work with any striker weapon that does not have an external safety, like the non-safety M&P.
Let us know how this works when you try it with the police rolling up on you
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 5Wire View Post
Maybe I missed it but if you have a Shield, aside from "guns are always to be considered loaded," how is it possible to know there is or is not a round in the chamber?

I know, I know, there's a "loaded chamber indicator" either a tiny hole to visually check or a protruding ramp for tactile confirmation. Mine has the little hole. If it's dark it doesn't work.

Aside from racking the slide enough to see if the bullet fairy left one ready to go, how does one know? Safeties definitely have their place.
If it's your EDC there should be one in the tube. Unless more that one person has access to the firearm in my situation it's 100% that there is one in the chamber. Also, I carry IWB and put the safety on when blind re holstering and flip it off when it's back in place.
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Old 04-11-2016, 02:02 PM
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Another thought. I believe the MA state police wanted a M&P .45 as a duty weapon but had a safety requirement. So the M&P .45 now can be had with a safety. Good for the consumer too. I used to have a 1911 on each nightstand but now a M&P .45s. It safety is easy like a 1911. Ambi too.
  #161  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:13 PM
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If it's your EDC there should be one in the tube.
So you say. Why?
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  #162  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:50 PM
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So you say. Why?
If you think you're going to have enough time to draw, rack the slide & get on target before the threat reaches you your a better man than I. The first thing that goes in a high stress situation is your fine motor skills. FACT
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Old 04-11-2016, 07:08 PM
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I'm not saying you're wrong. Just pointing out there are no rules of when attack might be coming or how quickly. Making any kind of assumption can easily be mistaken. How do you know an advancing person is a threat? How do you determine in advance how much time you will need?

Most defensive gun uses don't involve firing the gun. What role does situational awareness play?
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  #164  
Old 04-11-2016, 07:33 PM
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Racking a slide before someone who turns out to not be a threat will get you a brandishing charge.
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:00 PM
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just leave it off?

that's what I do on my M&P compact 22...
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:14 PM
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So you say. Why?
I can't speak for others but any gun that I carry regularly stays loaded unless I am cleaning it.

There is no question that my EDC is loaded
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:23 PM
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Racking a slide before someone who turns out to not be a threat will get you a brandishing charge.

Racking a slide before someone who turns out to be a threat will get you killed
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  #168  
Old 04-11-2016, 10:37 PM
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That is a fact. You can bet the farm that he won't have to rack his.
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Old 04-11-2016, 11:00 PM
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Thumbs up

I had an XD9SC with a grip safety. I kept managing to depress it while holstering....

I have an M&P9C with a thumb safety. IMHO, the thing is too big to hope to avoid accidental disengagement, although it would be unusual.

Note that most striker-fired guns could be discharged by trying to hammer a nail with it if there's no "drop safety" such as the ones that S&W uses on the M&P pistols. Many years ago, I had a little Browning semi-auto in .25ACP. No drop safety.... I really should have kept it, but that one could fire if dropped.

The thumb safety on the Shield is a bit too stiff for my liking, but I'm a 1911 guy, so it's not the end of the world.

(I could remove it easily enough, but I'm a believer in not removing factory-installed safety devices.)

(When I bought the Shield, I couldn't find one without the thumb safety.)

Guess I should buy another one ....

Regards,
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:50 AM
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I think S&W is smart for offering the option of a safety on the M&P. If you don't want it purchase one without, but if for any of several reasons, you want it, you can have the safety.

You may call them "gun dumb" but there are a lot of people that may be new to guns that want an additional measure of safety. If the added safety measure helps give them the confidence to learn more, to handle the gun more, and to carry then I see it as a good thing.
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:53 AM
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I prefer having a manual safety and also have nothing against those that do not want one. The majority of my pistols all have a safety except for a few. Even my newer sw686+ has a lock and find no problem having it. I have options when i dont want the safety on and/or if i feel i need it off it is so simple to take care of so no issue at all.
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Old 04-12-2016, 08:50 AM
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Now some they do and some they don't
And some you just can't tell
And some they will and some they won't
With some it's just as well...Supertramp
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:09 PM
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Now some they do and some they don't
And some you just can't tell
And some they will and some they won't
With some it's just as well...Supertramp
Good bye stranger. It's been nice, hope you find your paradise
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Old 04-12-2016, 12:42 PM
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Every time a Glock owner shoots himself when he gets something caught in the trigger guard while holstering is a reminder to me why I like the safety on my guns.

If safety is being Gun Dumb so be it.
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Old 04-12-2016, 01:29 PM
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Personally my wife feels better if there is a safety on my firearms. Some of mine do and some don't, but she is much more comfortable with the ones that do while there in the house. And i do use them when out shooting with the kids. Its easy to put the safety on when I set down a firearm to assist one of the children. A little better piece of mind. But not everyone is in the same sitution, so I am greatful for choices on the M&P, you get one with or without.
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:35 PM
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I'm not saying you're wrong. Just pointing out there are no rules of when attack might be coming or how quickly. Making any kind of assumption can easily be mistaken. How do you know an advancing person is a threat? How do you determine in advance how much time you will need?

Most defensive gun uses don't involve firing the gun. What role does situational awareness play?
Situational awareness is your best friend. Bad Guys on the street are really pretty dumb. If I see four guys with tats and hoodies and I cross the street and they do too it's time to be very prepared. In the winter months besides my EDC I keep my 642.38+P with internal hammer,loaded with Gold Dot Short Barrel ammo in my right flap pocket of my LL Bean field coat. No one thinks walking around with you hands in your pocket is threading. That's five rounds without even showing your firearm. Just point and shoot.
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Old 04-12-2016, 03:54 PM
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Why does it matter? If you buy one with a safety, it is easily removed.

The reason I have one is for reholstering. There have been quite a number of ND's resulting in ventilated legs of LEO's, most of them courtesy of striker fired weapons without safeties. There have been cases of debris, strings, fingers (yes, operator error) causing ND's during reholstering. Videos have shown that people (mostly police officers*) who have perfect finger and muzzle discipline at the range will often violate both disciplines in high stress situations.

* Not because they're the worst offenders, but because they're the people who are most likely to be video'ed during a shootout, so there's a lot of such video out there.

BTW, after I reholster, I don't care if the safety is on or off. The holster becomes my safety. Also, I like it because it operates the same as my 1911.

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Old 07-04-2016, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 10mm Sonny View Post
If I want something, why should I have to explain myself to those who don't want it.
HA, because they think that you are accountable to them. And don't forget, they are from the tribe of people who like to tell others what to do.

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  #179  
Old 07-04-2016, 06:25 AM
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You ask why have a safety. I ask why not have a safety.
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Old 07-04-2016, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by scattershot View Post
Well, this gun dumb guy (65 years old, been shooting since I was six) likes a manual safety, and that's why I ordered mine that way. If it makes you feel like more of a man without one, go for it. Don't know why you would care one way or the other.
Because they belong to the tribe of people who like to tell others what to do. 1

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Old 07-09-2016, 12:21 AM
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I grew up with the 1911 and shoot a CZ 75B SA in competition and love the thumb safety. I don't even have to think about it, its just a natural part of my draw. I thought when I first got the shield that the small safety would be an issue, but it turns out I can flip the safety just as well as my full size pistols. ND's are nearly impossible with a striker fired gun and thumb safety, not so without....
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Old 07-09-2016, 08:10 AM
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I have a 40c without the safety and I recently bought a police trade in 45 with a safety. I am working on being proficient with both. I am the kind of guy that likes to master whatever tool I have, tablesaw or 45, same concept. Frankly I fear the table saw more. Being proficient is the key regardless of which safety you have.

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  #183  
Old 07-09-2016, 09:59 AM
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Why have a thumb safety on an M&P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&P Pistol! Why have a thumb safety on an M&P Pistol!  
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I am not Gun Numb and have been around guns since I was born, My father was a LEO. So WHY does wanting a Safety on a Striker fired gun make you DUMB ? You either want one or you do not, that is a personal choice, just like being smug person who thinks they know it all and their opinion is always the right one for everyone! IMO if you want a safety because you fell better get one if you do not want a safety on a striker fired weapon don't get one .Simple no need to insult people who do not agree!
FYI I have a Safety on my Ruger SR9E and my Shield, do not use them , they were on the guns when I got them, but i would buy with the safety BECAUSE I just like the idea of them being there, SO if someone thinks I am dumb that is there opinion and I have been called worse then that lol
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Old 07-09-2016, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Crunch View Post
Actually the answer is pretty simple. It's because they are hoping/trying to get military contracts with the M&Ps and that this is a typical demand of most armed forces. As to why they carried this to the Shield...I'm not sure as I don't see any armed forces using the Shield.
I think since California's population is greater than Canada's___
That's a lot of possible gun sales.
I agree that people should have a choice. But, nearly every police agency in the U.S. issued or mandated a 38 special revolver for a hundred years. The safety was and is the double action.
I'm one of those who prefer a double action auto. (Been shot at by
criminals)
Most nation's militaries mandate a manual safety. Most who pack a pistol in the military ___not intended for immediate self defense.
That said___(Anyone who was in the army or marines) I've never got over my admiration of the government model 1911.
Poli Viejo
  #185  
Old 07-17-2016, 08:45 PM
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Although this is an relatively old thread, the topic is still very relevant.

To answer the question with various reasons:

1) Because this is America and those that want a manual safety can have one. Don't like the freedom to choose?...move to another country.

2) Manual safety is another layer of protection against ND. Those with kids may want all the safety features they can get.

3) Those that thinks the only needed safety is the one between their ears are delusional. No human being is capable of functioning at 100% mental capacity with awareness and judgement at all times. There are periods of lapse of judgement such as distractions, during waking up from sleep, etc.... In darkness, when one has to grab the firearm for whatever reason, a manual safety can potentially reduces the mishap of a ND.

4) New/inexperience gun owners...enough said.

I have both safety and non-safety and prefer the manual safety more and once it's holstered, safety goes off. The odds of discharging a firearm in self-defense is astronomically low, coupled with the fact that an accidental engagement/malfunction of the safety during an SD/HD, the odds of that happening are immeasurable.

I got a non-safety M&P9 Full Size because the ambidextrous safety is large and gaudy, more prone to unintended engagement/disengagement.

EDIT: Those that throw insults because of differences in gear or choices are ignorant and poor manner.

Last edited by kstud; 07-17-2016 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 07-17-2016, 09:39 PM
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Here's one with an ambi safety

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/...psuy46gcfv.jpg
  #187  
Old 07-17-2016, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Houdini1953 View Post
Why would anyone want a thumb safety on an M&P so now bear with me on this? The M&P like the Glock is a striker fired weapon and there is no hammer to strike the firing pin which could possibly fire if the weapon were to be dropped but there is no hammer on an M&P!
There have been quite a few accidental discharges by cops carrying Glocks. A cop in Indiana recently shot himself with his Glock. They are not safe. I have a M&P 9C without manual safety and will trade somebody sear blocks and parts to convert mine to external safety and theirs to non safety. Any takers out there?
  #188  
Old 07-17-2016, 11:08 PM
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To me, the safety on a striker fired gun IS the trigger. I have two M&P's, a 9mm shield and a mid-sized 45. These ain't target guns, folks.
  #189  
Old 07-17-2016, 11:28 PM
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I have the M&P Shield and YES I have a thumb safety. Reason.......when I IWB carry, I don't want to risk an AD/ND. Not that I am careless, but freak things are know to happen.
I do realize if I had to engage the pistol in case of an emergent event, the small safety lever could present some delay, but IMHO, it worth the slight delay for the peace of mind that the safety is ON!
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  #190  
Old 07-18-2016, 12:22 PM
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As has been mentioned, there have been numerous ND's with striker guns with no external safety. My FS 9 has one. I bought it for IDPA, carrying, and home defense. When it's in my holster, the safety is off. The holster is the safety, but I still use it when holstering. I also use it when it's in the nightstand. I don't want an ND when I'm fumbling around at night after the burglar alarm goes off. I like having the option of using it when I feel it's needed.
  #191  
Old 07-18-2016, 12:29 PM
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On the Shield 9mm the thumb safety prevents the trigger from moving rearward when the thumb safety lever is in the safe position. I see no problem with that and use it all the time.

To me the better question is why would you not want a safety? When I don't want a safety on the Shield 9mm I put the safety lever in the "fire" position.

easy peasy
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  #192  
Old 07-18-2016, 06:36 PM
kannonvaggon kannonvaggon is offline
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I'm probably paranoid about the thumb safety on the Shield. I LIKE it. I have it engaged when holstered and any other time except when actually ready to fire the weapon. I have gotten used to having it and that it operates differently from the previous S&W I had which had a decocker type safety which went UP instead of DOWN.... Took me a while to get used to the change but now my brain seems to be in synch with reality....

I use a kydex holster most of the time IWB also since I have a "thing" about leather holsters that might get a little fold and press the trigger on a pistol with no thumb safety. I truly desire not to shoot myself in my own butt .... or anybody else for that matter ....

JMHO
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  #193  
Old 07-18-2016, 06:50 PM
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Easy enough for me to answer. When I was looking to purchase an M&P .45 Cabelas had the thumb safety model on sale for, I think, about 80 bucks cheaper than the one without. No brainer. I can always take it off and plug the hole if I desire but since I also have a 1911 it's just muscle memory.
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  #194  
Old 02-17-2017, 02:54 PM
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Triggers have been known to be snagged by a twig or branch of a bush in the woods, clothing going into a holster.... I had it happen once. I have carried both types and I found years ago when I carried a colt 1911 that disengaging the saftey as I drew did not alter my response or time on target.
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WK1025 View Post
I had two reasons for my choosing the M&P with the thumb safety. Gun dumb or not I carried a Glock CCW for 15 years and had a few instances where the trigger hooked on my shirt and IWB holster when reholstering. Didn't make the gun go off but it made me nervous. Bad gun handling on my part? probably. The other reason is that growing up with the 1911 platform I was always taught to sweep off the safety. I am teaching my daugther the same way, feeling that if she had to use another gun that has a safety in self defense I would rather she is used to swipe it off than fumble looking why it didn't go off. A far fetched senario? Probaby, but I do like that new gun people get used to putting on the safety until they get used to hndling loaded firearms. Is it lawyer induced? probably but I think it is great Smith and Wesson gives you the option to get it either way. Glock doesn't, it's take it or leave it. Besides it is pretty easy to remove the safety down the road if you decide you don'y want it on the gun and Smith will even give you the frame plugs. You can't add it on later if you decide you want it.
I bought my S&W M&P Mod 2.0, 5 inch barrel, with the external safety because S&W did not offer it without an external safety. I'll be removing the external safety as soon as S&W ships me the frame plugs. I, too, like having options.
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  #196  
Old 06-09-2017, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb21 View Post
Not "gun dumb". I have been an active handgun shooter for almost 30 years now and a competition shooter for about 10 years. I like the 1911 style thumb safety on the M&P pistol. I use it and it gives me a piece of mind. I do not like the very small thumb safeties on the Ruger SR9 or the M&P Shield. Under stress I would not be able to de activate those little safeties.
I love the safety on the Shield (can't speak for SR9). Since the smaller conceal carry guns like the Shield are often not carried in some kind of holster (maybe a belly band), the flatter safety won't catch on clothes. I carry my Shield with one in the chamber and the safety on in my belly band. With a larger conceal carry gun which I can carry somewhere better, I don't care that much (lever is fine). I have much better finger dexterity than most though (I play piano). I've watched other people fumble with their fingers though. That's not me. I'm already fast at taking the safety off and haven't even practiced yet.

I'm not sure if I'll ever buy a gun without a safety. I like to lighten up the trigger and feel much safer doing that if I've got a good thumb safety. Maybe that's just me. Seems like most guns don't have a thumb safety which tells me most people don't want them and/or don't lighten up their trigger.

I wish more guns out there had options for a thumb safety :-(

Consider me a newbie. Only been shooting for a few years but plan to shoot a lot more now.
  #197  
Old 06-09-2017, 03:04 PM
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IMHO it comes down to what each individual shooter wants and is comfortable with. I personally prefer no safety on my Shield and thats what i have. However someone else may be use to having a safety. FOr me it comes down my training.

I have always trained to carry/shoot with a safety off but it depends on the gun as well. A 1911 yeah I carry with a safety sure. H&K USP 9/45 safety on because thats how I trained but the P2000sk I dont like a saftey. Ihave shot Glocks for years never felt unsafe carrying one. Same with the XD, XDM, XDS, M&P etc.

I guess it comes down to your training and philosophy
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  #198  
Old 06-09-2017, 04:03 PM
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Old 06-09-2017, 05:15 PM
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Since I'm a lefty, my Shield 45 has no safety. If the safety was ambidextrous, I might have reconsidered... maybe Why have a thumb safety on an M&P Pistol!


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  #200  
Old 06-09-2017, 05:43 PM
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This topic has been more than thoroughly covered.
We're done here.
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