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  #1  
Old 04-23-2012, 08:09 PM
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Default Magazine Safety or No Magazine Safety

So, now I own a full sized M&P 9 that has a mag safety and just purchased an M&P Shield that does not. I want to have both guns match, either with or without, I don't care which. Assuming it needs to be done by S&W or a gunsmith, have you any advice as to which is easier/cheaper? Remove it from the FS or add one to the Shield?

I should add that the shield manual of arms says they come both ways though I have yet to hear of one that has shipped with a mag safety.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:43 PM
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I took my mag safety out in about 30 seconds and replaced the spring with one from a ball point pen.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onetuza View Post
So, now I own a full sized M&P 9 that has a mag safety and just purchased an M&P Shield that does not. I want to have both guns match, either with or without, I don't care which. Assuming it needs to be done by S&W or a gunsmith, have you any advice as to which is easier/cheaper? Remove it from the FS or add one to the Shield?

I should add that the shield manual of arms says they come both ways though I have yet to hear of one that has shipped with a mag safety.
Ok guys. I'm new to this. I come from Glock ownership, where everything is just one way period, no options. Let me know if I have this right. The M&P pistols come in:
  • Safe Action Trigger Only
  • Safe Action Trigger + Frame Safety.
  • Safe Action Trigger + Frame Safety + Mag Safety?
  • Safe Action Trigger + Mag safety

Then on top of all that, there's a model that simulates a DAO trigger pull?

Wow. I like choices.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:16 PM
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Personally, I think less is more. My Ruger SR9c had a magazine safety and I removed it. It's a piece of metal, the shape of a U and extends through the slide. When a magazine is inserted, it pushed the safety up so the firing pin can clear it.

I don't know how they are on M&P pistols, but on the Ruger's, they just barely clear and it was visible on mine that is was dragging on the firing pin when fired. This can lead to light primer strikes. After removing mine in the SR9c I can see a visible difference in the impression of the firing pin on the primer.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:21 PM
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Thanks for the info on the SR9 series pistols. I'm not a fan of magazine safeties. I tolerate them on .22lr pistols, no so much on major caliber pistols.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:22 PM
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No mag safety.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JaPes View Post
Thanks for the info on the SR9 series pistols. I'm not a fan of magazine safeties. I tolerate them on .22lr pistols, no so much on major caliber pistols.
My LC9 is built the same way as the SR9c. I haven't had the firing pin out yet, but if or when I do, I'll remove the Mag safety in it as well.

I don't much bother with 22's either. Their just something cheap and fun to shoot for me.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:44 AM
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I think I would remove the mag safety from the FS 9MM.
I have a full size .40 S&W with a mag safety.
I tried to remove it, and it looks like you need a different spring to make it work, so I put it back together.
Btw, it's a real pain to reassemble the mag safety.
The little spring & clip..... AARGH!
I don't rule out trying to buy the right style spring so I can remove the mag safety. It would be nice to have a gun without the ugly warning printed on the slide.
"Caution: Capable of firing with magazine removed". Blah, blah, blah. What an ugly thing to stamp into a gun.
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  #9  
Old 04-24-2012, 07:06 AM
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I want a magazine disconnect. I donít know of anyone dying because they had a magazine disconnect, but I know of an Illinois State Trooper that is alive because he had one.

Thatís the good thing about the M&P line; they offer it both ways and you donít have to justify to anyone what you want.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave686 View Post
I want a magazine disconnect. I donít know of anyone dying because they had a magazine disconnect, but I know of an Illinois State Trooper that is alive because he had one.

Thatís the good thing about the M&P line; they offer it both ways and you donít have to justify to anyone what you want.
Totally agree with your last line there.

But just to add to the first part...
2001 Manitoba RCMP Const. Dennis Strongquill was killed in the line of duty. The reason...as a left-handed shooter, he accidentally hit the mag release on his duty weapon while trapped in his cruiser, disabling it and rendering it useless.

Ultimately though I'd say the argument could be made either way.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:11 PM
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Mag safety depends on the use of the gun. If you envision a situation where you are going to be in a fight / wrestling match with a bad guy, then as many LEO's will point out, being able to "safe" the gun by releasing the mag has some serious advantages.

If that is not the case, then you have a situation that could cause you to have one of two "also highly unlikely" situations:
1. You accidently drop the mag in a crises and are now holding a door stop.

2. You are in the middle of a reload when the need to shoot arises, and you are holding a door stop.

While all of these situations are unlikely, you decission should be based on which is the most likely to occour in your case.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:18 PM
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i have a magazine safety. and i want it gone!
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by youseemym&p View Post
i have a magazine safety. and i want it gone!
On a Shield??
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by g_conway View Post
2. You are in the middle of a reload when the need to shoot arises, and you are holding a door stop.
.
In that situation, your support hand should be right at the gun with BOTH magazines. Insert one and solve the problem. Your weapon is not a door stop!

In addition, a partial/tactical/topping off reload is done from behind cover with no action in progress. Did your need to shoot beam in?

It's your choice, but the fear of magazine safeties is overblown. I'm sorry about the RCMP Constable, but left handed shooters trapped in the drivers seat are way behind the 8 ball regardless of weapon condition. He could have tapped the magazine (by hand or on an object) to restore function had he had time (and assuming the magazine didn't release after he was shot).

Last edited by WR Moore; 04-25-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
In that situation, your support hand should be right at the gun with BOTH magazines. Insert one and solve the problem. Your weapon is not a door stop!

In addition, a partial/tactical/topping off reload is done from behind cover with no action in progress. Did your need to shoot beam in?

It's your choice, but the fear of magazine safeties is overblown. I'm sorry about the RCMP Constable, but left handed shooters trapped in the drivers seat are way behind the 8 ball regardless of weapon condition. He could have tapped the magazine (by hand or on an object) to restore function had he had time (and assuming the magazine didn't release after he was shot).
You are confusing and IDPA match, or a tactical simulation, with reality.

In the real world, most people in this situation will not have faced it before. The panic reaction resulting from the situation will prevent or slow down proper "situational awareness" for the average gun owner, no matter how much we think we are rambo.

For the period of time the mag is out, you ARE holding a doorstop with a mag-safe gun. Period.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:26 PM
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Actually, I've been carrying firearms for a paycheck since 1969. Making it to senior citizen status has involved a firm grasp of reality and a heaping helping of dumb luck. Since we're speaking of reality, most all people fire 'till slide lock. In that condition, there is no difference between with/without the magazine safety.

I will conceed that if Howard Homeowner decides to do a top off reload, he will probably drop the partial mag and then go fishing for the replacment (although I doubt Howard has a spare in his jammies). Given his preoccupation with trying to get the weapon up (find the mag?), an aggessive intruder could be too close for it to make a difference if the weapon is a functional firearm or a impact weapon. On the other hand, Howard is also the person most likely to benefit from the inability to fire a round accidentally left in the chamber, so the sword cuts both ways. [Not to pick on Howard too much, it's occasionally entertaining watching some officers search for spare mags at M4 bolt lock on our stress course.]

Good idea for a question on a limted access site about any known tac reloads. A thread on the magazine safety produced something over 30 documented saves in a day or two. No injuries/deaths cited.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:48 PM
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I will be telling my age, but when I started carrying my S&W Model 645 on duty I went to qualify at the Sheriff’s Office Range. The senior firearms instructor was inspecting my weapon before I attempted to qualify. Without asking he disassembled my 645, removed the magazine safety and handled it back to me. He looked at me and said, “You may only get one chance to get a round off at your attacker while reloading in a fire fight”. That was it. I still carry it today since I am an old head now. And he retired and they just recently named the new firearms complex after him. So I am guessing he knew what he was talking about back in the day.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:25 PM
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I like magazine disconnects and feel those who are against them think they are some tactical operator because they subscribe to Guns and Ammo. PLENTY of cases of lives saved by the disconnect. And the left handed trooper? Sorry for that, but even IF he got that shot off, what are the odds he not only hit the guy, but scored a stopping shot? Cops have about a 20 hit ratio nationwide.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post
I like magazine disconnects and feel those who are against them think they are some tactical operator because they subscribe to Guns and Ammo. PLENTY of cases of lives saved by the disconnect. And the left handed trooper? Sorry for that, but even IF he got that shot off, what are the odds he not only hit the guy, but scored a stopping shot? Cops have about a 20 hit ratio nationwide.
LOL, I subscribe to guns and ammo, it's always got good indepth reviews on guns. I don't think I'm a tactical operator, or even an operator for that matter. I also don't feel that if someone has a view different from mine, that they are wrong.
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Old 03-11-2015, 09:03 AM
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Default Why I don't like magazine safeties...

First of all, I realize that this is a 3-year old thread, but it is an issue that is still being debated. That said, I agree... there are valid arguments both for and against the "technology." I'll give you my reason for NOT wanting a magazine disconnect:

First of all, I'll tell you that I live in California where I currently don't have a choice with most pistols; buy one in California and you're going to get a magazine disconnect and an LCI (Loaded Chamber Indicator). This was the case when I bought my Ruger LC9 (just before it fell off the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale in California). One of the first things I did after receiving the pistol, was remove the mag disconnect. This is a VERY simple process in an LC9 which can be done in only a few minutes. This is my EDC pistol which I carry in an N82 Professional holster. (For those who aren't familiar, go to N82 Tactical).

Although pistols are "drop-tested" before being certified for sale in CA, the test is only to prove (or disprove) that the gun will not fire from such an impact. My concern was if the magazine might be released from a drop. After removing & reinserting my loaded magazine into my pistol (making sure that the catch had a full, positive hold), I dropped the gun on the carpet of my bedroom from about 3 feet from a drawing stance. I had planned on giving it 10 or 20 drops from slightly different holds to give my "test" a fair shake. On the very first drop, my magazine had released. That was the moment that sealed my decision NOT to have a magazine disconnect: In the heat of a confrontation, it is even more likely that I may fumble and drop my firearm while drawing. If that magazine releases in a situation like that, I will lose the opportunity to fire my one chambered round.
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:18 AM
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Drop testing loaded firearms is done in a controlled environment. Don't do it at home
The M&P has a loaded chamber indicator so you can easily see if there is a chambered round which is the whole point of having a mag safety. Teaching your family properly how a gun works is better than having a mag safety.
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:36 AM
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Default Don't drop test a loaded firearm!


Just to be clear...

I didn't drop test a loaded firearm!

Although Sturm Ruger has already done extensive testing to make sure that the LC9 won't "go off" when dropped, I don't like to test fate. Be assured that I did NOT have a round in the chamber when I conducted my test. I only had rounds in the magazine.

I wanted to see if the magazine might be released in a drop situation, and to do so, I wanted it to be filled since the weight of the magazine is a big factor on whether the mag may or may not disengage during a drop.

My apologies for not mentioning that fact.
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:51 AM
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I understand that and please take this in the way it is intended. Never do anything with live rounds, don't cycle live rounds, use snap caps. There maybe a million to one chance that something goes wrong but things do go wrong all the time. Stay safe and welcome to the forum
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaPes View Post
Ok guys. I'm new to this. I come from Glock ownership, where everything is just one way period, no options. Let me know if I have this right. The M&P pistols come in:
  • Safe Action Trigger Only
  • Safe Action Trigger + Frame Safety.
  • Safe Action Trigger + Frame Safety + Mag Safety?
  • Safe Action Trigger + Mag safety

Then on top of all that, there's a model that simulates a DAO trigger pull?

Wow. I like choices.
I like choices too but these not these types. For me its SA trigger only.
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Old 03-11-2015, 12:14 PM
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Lots of different and valid arguments both ways here but, I am a 68 yr. old man with a high "situational awareness" quotient and avoid at all costs situations where I might get into a scuffle with anyone.
I am not nor have I ever been LEO but I have carried a pistol/revolver for years. Luckily, no altercations yet but I also do my best to avoid situations that might promote them.

I am comfortable without having a magazine disconnect and prefer this way of carry. One less thing to worry about and, if I panic and accidently drop the magazine, I still have one last shot.
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Old 03-11-2015, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by zgozvrm View Post
In the heat of a confrontation, it is even more likely that I may fumble and drop my firearm while drawing. If that magazine releases in a situation like that, I will lose the opportunity to fire my one chambered round.
More Practice.
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Old 03-12-2015, 01:51 AM
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Hummm. Previous post done disappeared. Since this thread has returned from the dead, there was a survey on a limited access site about tactical reloads. No one could come up with a documented case where one happened in the real world.
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:28 AM
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Why are you bringing up "tactical reloads" in conjunction with this topic?
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:41 AM
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Because of the "you can fire the round in the chamber if you're reloading" thing if you don't have a mag safety. If you don't want one fine. However, they aren't the Angel of Death.
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Old 03-15-2015, 08:01 AM
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I have yet to hear of one case where a mag disconnect caused an injury or a death. I can find dozens where the presence of one prevented injuries and death.

And the idea of anybody not HIGHLY trained having the presence of mind and the manual dexterity to do it in the middle of a gunfight that is already a very unlikely to begin with, is mall ninja nonsense.
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