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Old 05-06-2012, 10:04 PM
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Default Anyone else notice the irritation from Kahr owners about the shield

I am on a lot of various gun forums... I have noticed that the Kahr owners just are frothing at the gums about The Shield.

I had a Kahr PM9 until today... I just sold it today after getting my S&W Shield. I like the Shield better. However, the Kahr is a good gun too. I have not really said anything negative about it. It's just a matter of preference...

But damn... The Kahr fanatics just won't say - hey, I like the Kahr better. Some are just going out of there way with ridiculous examples and made up stuff, to some degree. Worst place is the Kahrtalk Forum, but I guess that is to be expected. But, I am seeing some of this other places to. A little here and a little there...

Damn, some of them are taking it personally.. It's like geeze, it's just another gun. Relax....

Anyone else seen any of this?
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:11 PM
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Oh well .. I imagine the Ruger people are just as touchy too
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:18 PM
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I live about 5 miles from the Kahr factory and about 35 miles from S&W factory.
I've never bought a Kahr because they are way overpriced. I can't wait until the Shield is Mass compliant in a month or so. I've already held one at the S&W factory store it it feels perfect. Can't wait to shoot the 9 and 40.
Kahr should be worried because the Shield is now a direct competitor at about 1/2 the price.
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:33 PM
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Default Kahr PM9 $650 - S&W Shield $449=Mad Kahr owner

I owned a Kahr CM9 and I still post on kahrtalk.

I posted my shield range report with pictures a few days back and well let's say I was ignored with the exception of one or two kahr posters.

I imagine if I paid $650 for a PM9 and along comes the Shield for $200 less I would not be too happy.

I believe Kahr introduced the CM9 which is the cheaper version of the pm9 last year because Kahr saw the writing on the wall. The recent release of several single stack $400 poly guns from major gun manufacturers in my opinion will kill the $600 single stack poly market.


Russ
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:11 PM
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I have the cm9 I also have the M&P 45C

The CM9 fits the pocket....... The shield is too big
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean1818 View Post
I have the cm9 I also have the M&P 45C

The CM9 fits the pocket....... The shield is too big
+1, I like the shield, it just doesn't do what I want a single stack 9mm to do.
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:16 PM
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Brand loyalty is a peculiar thing...
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussC View Post
I owned a Kahr CM9 and I still post on kahrtalk.

I posted my shield range report with pictures a few days back and well let's say I was ignored with the exception of one or two kahr posters.

I imagine if I paid $650 for a PM9 and along comes the Shield for $200 less I would not be too happy.

I believe Kahr introduced the CM9 which is the cheaper version of the pm9 last year because Kahr saw the writing on the wall. The recent release of several single stack $400 poly guns from major gun manufacturers in my opinion will kill the $600 single stack poly market.


Russ
Well, the Shield is the same quality as the rest of the M&P line that sells for less than the Kahr. Hmm ....
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean1818 View Post
I have the cm9 I also have the M&P 45C

The CM9 fits the pocket....... The shield is too big
I don't know - I have pocket carried it since Thur. The size difference from the Shield to the PM9 I had is insignificant IMHO.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:12 AM
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I sold my CM9 for the Shield but really wish I could've kept both.

The Kahr's are really nice but I don't regret the switch.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:27 AM
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Not being bias, but I think the Shield is a better looking gun IMHO. & fits my pocket just fine.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:42 AM
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Kinda like the Glock fanboys when the M&P started gaining traction. There will always be those types who get all sorts of butt hurt when something comes out that rivals their personal pick.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:24 AM
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I own a Kahr, and could care less if others prefer the Smith Shield. It meets my needs and expectations. Based on what I've seen and read, I'd make the same decision today. If a Smith fanboy ( I'm one too) can convince me otherwise, I'm willing to listen.
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Old 05-07-2012, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shielded View Post
Not being bias, but I think the Shield is a better looking gun IMHO. & fits my pocket just fine.
Umm .. If I were you, I wouldn't log onto the Kahr site with your screen name. Second thought, I DARE YOU !!
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
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Umm .. If I were you, I wouldn't log onto the Kahr site with your screen name. Second thought, I DARE YOU !!
Ha Ha... No Thanks, I'll just stay here with you guys. I'm sure I'd be a big hit though
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Old 05-07-2012, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean1818 View Post
I have the cm9 I also have the M&P 45C

The CM9 fits the pocket....... The shield is too big
I read that somewhere but when I actually put one in my pocket it fit fine. Then again it all depends on the pants one is wearing right?
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:37 AM
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It was like I poked a stick in a hornets nest after adding a few comments on the Shield to a rather long thread on Kahrtalk about the gun.

There are a couple of "regular" posters there that routinely attempt to dominate the forum and hand out regular doses of the Kahr Arms Kool-Aid. The new or inexperienced Kahr owners drink this up all the time.

I took a mild interest in the Shield a couple of weeks ago after reading about it. I intend to take a hands on look at the Shield this week if I can locate one locally.

I was most impressed with the thread on this forum in regard to the new Shield owners and their lack of problems or issues with new pistols and initial range sessions.

I'm not too thrilled with S&W finding it necessary to add a manual safety to the Shield.

Disclaimer: I own one Kahr pistol, a PM9, black w/night sights. It was purchased for one reason and one reason only, discrete CCW when my G27 was just too big to carry in light, warm weather clothing here in FL. It has fit that need very well.

I have been carry one type of gun or another during my time in LE and in retirement for 41 years. The PM9 is in the top 5 or 6 on my list.

My PM9 has not been without minot issues but they have all been corrected to my satisfaction. It is a fine pistol for what it is.

IMO and limited ownership, Kahr makes a very good pistol. In my experience(s) their CS has been outstanding when I have needed it.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:08 AM
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Life is too short to read threads like this.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blujax01 View Post
I read that somewhere but when I actually put one in my pocket it fit fine. Then again it all depends on the pants one is wearing right?
I dont see how (unless someone is the jolly green giant) how they can truly pocket carry the shield.

I have pockets that my M&P 45 c can be forced into....... But I would never be able to get it out quickly

To me, the height of the shield is one bullet off for pocket carry.

I may...... Just may............ Take the shield and work on the mag (cut it back by one bullet). If I can do that and have a stable piece, then I would carefully cut the handle down to accept the shorter mag.

I have seen this done on a kahr cw9.

I realize this will void the warranty, but If I could pull it off, I would have the perfect size pocket 9mm.

The whole question would be if I could get the base of the mag stable.

The kahr is ok, the trigger is too long for me.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:14 AM
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Like what you shoot. Shoot what you like. No different than Ford v Chevy, MAC v PC, Coke v Pepsi, Glock vs SiG, Glock v S&W, Glock v Springfield, Glock v 1911, Glock v laser, Glock v RPG, Glock vs Thor's hammer, etc, etc.

Yeah, I've spent some time on GT. Talk about fanboys!
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neumann View Post
I own a Kahr, and could care less if others prefer the Smith Shield. It meets my needs and expectations. Based on what I've seen and read, I'd make the same decision today. If a Smith fanboy ( I'm one too) can convince me otherwise, I'm willing to listen.
I agree with you 100% - well stated!
I purchased a Kahr PM-9 five years ago it has been my constant companion in a pocket holster ever since - reliable and accurate what more does one require.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSQUARED View Post
I agree with you 100% - well stated!
I purchased a Kahr PM-9 five years ago it has been my constant companion in a pocket holster ever since - reliable and accurate what more does one require.
My CM9 is good enough..... But.....

My problem with the CM9 is I cannot accurately doubletap
Because of the trigger
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:36 AM
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I have owned, shot and carried a Kahr CW9 for a lot of years and can't imagine a better carry pistol. I have absolutely nothing against the Shield, looks like a pretty good gun but would not give up a gun as good as the Kahr to take a chance on something new. Fact is, Kahr makes a near perfect carry gun and I believe, considering prices these days, is not over priced. Again, the Shield looks like a fine gun.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smith10 View Post
+1, I like the shield, it just doesn't do what I want a single stack 9mm to do.
I'm a huge M&P fan but I have to say I agree on this. Personally I really think Smith should have made it smaller or at least made a 380 version that IS a real pocket pistol. I've been looking around for a Pocket Pistol for a while and I just don't care for the Khar and an M&P would have been a great option.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:29 AM
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My main beef with the Kahr's is all the work they require right off the bat to fucntion properly. I had to sand down mag followers to get my CM9 to feed correctly and rack the slide a good 500 times (LITERALLY--I used gloves ) to break it in. After that it worked great but it always left a sour taste in my mouth since I'm used to running Glocks and M&P's that have been rock solid from the first mag to 3-5,000 rounds and require no "fluff and buff".
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:22 AM
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The problem is that in a few years the Shield will be replaced or upgraded or whatever S&W calls it, (remember all those "generations"?), and you'll need new magazines, holsters and accessories. The old Glock 26 and 27s will keep trucking along. A magazine made today will work in the original Glock 17 twenty years ago. Also, I've been burned by S&W semi's few times in the past. At the very least I will wait a year on see on the Shield like I would any model new gun until they get the bugs out.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean1818 View Post
I dont see how (unless someone is the jolly green giant) how they can truly pocket carry the shield

To me, the height of the shield is one bullet off for pocket carry.
One bullet's difference (1/2") between normal man and Jolly Green Giant? I'm 6'1" 220. My EDC is a snub nosed k frame I pocket carry in an Uncle Mike's size 4. I have tried a Shield in my pocket and it fits nicely. Granted I wear loose fitting cargo khakis and if I'm in a suit it won't do. What sort of pants were you wearing when you found a Shield would not work for you?
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:28 PM
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I have a Kahr CW40, which has been a very reliable piece. I have never had a FTE or FTL on the gun. I fits perfectly in the center console of my car. With that said, I love my M&P 9, and I am eagerly awaiting some range reports on the Shield 40. I have absolutely no reason to replace my Kahr, but like so many of us, we love new toys.

Last edited by Rufus; 05-07-2012 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blujax01 View Post
One bullet's difference (1/2") between normal man and Jolly Green Giant? I'm 6'1" 220. My EDC is a snub nosed k frame I pocket carry in an Uncle Mike's size 4. I have tried a Shield in my pocket and it fits nicely. Granted I wear loose fitting cargo khakis and if I'm in a suit it won't do. What sort of pants were you wearing when you found a Shield would not work for you?
Kudos on the K frame snub; is it a model 10? I really like them.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blujax01 View Post
One bullet's difference (1/2") between normal man and Jolly Green Giant? I'm 6'1" 220. My EDC is a snub nosed k frame I pocket carry in an Uncle Mike's size 4. I have tried a Shield in my pocket and it fits nicely. Granted I wear loose fitting cargo khakis and if I'm in a suit it won't do. What sort of pants were you wearing when you found a Shield would not work for you?
A little change in height of the weapon makes a huge diffrence in pocket carry.

A jframe is an easy pocket carry, the cm9 is ok, but a little over a half inch makes a slow draw.....

Having a pistol fit in a pocket is a huge difference than having something that will draw quickly.

I fear i might actually incapacitate a bad guy because he is laughing so hard while I struggle with pulling a pistol from my pocket......... "sorry...... Mr bad guy..... I just need to get this out of my pocket..... Dont go anywhere"
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:09 PM
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I guess I will also add that though there are clearly kahr fanboys on kahrtalk, (kinda expect that.... Dont you?) they are very good folks.

I have gotten great guidance there
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
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Kudos on the K frame snub; is it a model 10? I really like them.
Okay one thread drift then it's back to Kahr-bashing!

M64 engraved "Luscious".

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Old 05-07-2012, 03:11 PM
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Anyone else notice the irritation from Kahr owners about the shield Anyone else notice the irritation from Kahr owners about the shield Anyone else notice the irritation from Kahr owners about the shield Anyone else notice the irritation from Kahr owners about the shield Anyone else notice the irritation from Kahr owners about the shield  
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The Shield looks like a Desert Eagle next to a PM9...especially from the muzzle end.
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinett_11B View Post
The Shield looks like a Desert Eagle next to a PM9...especially from the muzzle end.
not true:

Kahr laying on top of the Shield...


Last edited by shipwreck; 05-07-2012 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:45 PM
TeaQue TeaQue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinett_11B View Post
The Shield looks like a Desert Eagle next to a PM9...especially from the muzzle end.
Oh really?

Doesn't seem much bigger to me.

(This was my CM9 but its the same size....)





8+1, 7+1
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  #36  
Old 05-07-2012, 03:51 PM
xICEMANx xICEMANx is offline
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I can tell you from having owned both the Shield is a superior weapon. Only thing the CM9/PM9 has going for it is it's slightly easier to carry. The shield has a MUCH better trigger and MUCH softer recoil. I will trade the slightly smaller size for that anyday!
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  #37  
Old 05-07-2012, 04:00 PM
TeaQue TeaQue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xICEMANx View Post
I can tell you from having owned both the Shield is a superior weapon. Only thing the CM9/PM9 has going for it is it's slightly easier to carry. The shield has a MUCH better trigger and MUCH softer recoil. I will trade the slightly smaller size for that anyday!
I agree on all counts.

I sold my CM9 last week.
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Old 05-07-2012, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xICEMANx View Post
I can tell you from having owned both the Shield is a superior weapon. Only thing the CM9/PM9 has going for it is it's slightly easier to carry. The shield has a MUCH better trigger and MUCH softer recoil. I will trade the slightly smaller size for that anyday!
Yes indeed
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:03 PM
kudzu3 kudzu3 is offline
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Just came from Kahr talk, can't find even one mention of the shield. Where's the stuff you're speaking of?
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kudzu3 View Post
Just came from Kahr talk, can't find even one mention of the shield. Where's the stuff you're speaking of?
Shield vs. PM9 - KahrTalk Forums
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  #41  
Old 05-07-2012, 05:42 PM
xICEMANx xICEMANx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaQue View Post
Lol that's kinda funny. I'm willing to bet few of those posting have actually fired a Shield. I think alot of the are justifying in their mind that buying a pm9 for all that $$$ was worth it. I wonder if the same could be said with the CM9? Did they bag on Kahr's cheaper version of the PM9?

Like I said ealier I've owned both and I much prefer the Shield, hence I sold the CM9. I'd be willing to bet that is the general consensus.
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  #42  
Old 05-07-2012, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaQue View Post
lol .. a bit of Kahr trolling going on. It's WAR just kidding Kahr fans I just love all of the critiquing on the Shield when they haven't even shot the Shield. Oh well....
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  #43  
Old 05-07-2012, 06:42 PM
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As soon as Smith & Wesson makes a 'Shield 45' I will buy one. Brand new.

So far my PM45 has been my best b.u.g. and deep concealed carry gun ever.
But it is a 45. And all I carry is a 45.

Not knocking the 9m.m. , just personal preference.

Kahr owners, Shield owners. GUN owners.

" The most important gun you will ever own is the one you have in your
hand the moment you need it" < Allenism.

Carry what you train with and train with what you carry.

All that really matters is 1. Shot Placement. and 2. Adequate Penetration.
( everything else is just Angels dancing on the heads of pins )

Keep it all in perspective. Protect innocent life.

Allen Frame
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  #44  
Old 05-07-2012, 07:10 PM
isaiah360 isaiah360 is offline
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I just got rid of my pm9 with the night sights for the 1911 e-series sc. First I will say I am far from an expert on firearms but here's my .02 Kahr make a nice gun. The trigger is much better than my M&P 9c. It went bang every time the mag would.feed it properly. The mag sux. For the money you pay for a Mass compliant PM9 you should get top notch mags. Now the 1911 e-series sc is by far better than both of them. almost everything about it is miles apart. With a quality holster it conceal just fine and the firepower speaks for itself. it also has more rounds than the Kahr but two less than the M&P but I'm ok with that. now what is up with the mags for the 1911. They are no name chrome cheapys. I seen some you tube videos and they show nice ACT mags. The Meg-Gar mag I bought seems better. the rounds don't sit against the feed lips on the factory mag the way they do with the Mec-Gar. they may be going back once I get them to the range and put 500 down the tube the shield looks to be a great gun with the improved trigger it should put the Kahr in the ground now to I get rid of the 9c for the shield we shall see

Last edited by isaiah360; 05-07-2012 at 07:22 PM.
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  #45  
Old 05-07-2012, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xICEMANx View Post
Lol that's kinda funny. I'm willing to bet few of those posting have actually fired a Shield. I think alot of the are justifying in their mind that buying a pm9 for all that $$$ was worth it. I wonder if the same could be said with the CM9? Did they bag on Kahr's cheaper version of the PM9?

Like I said ealier I've owned both and I much prefer the Shield, hence I sold the CM9. I'd be willing to bet that is the general consensus.
I have a PM9. I am very pleased with it as my EDC gun. I bought it last July after a lot of research on pistols smaller than my G27.
I am also interestd in the Shield and will try to locate one locally this week.
If I do and buy one, I won't be getting rid of my PM9.
However, I'm not all that thrilled that S&W saw fit to equip the Shield with a manual safety. It could be the one thing that queers the deal for me.
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  #46  
Old 05-07-2012, 08:02 PM
ccpacker ccpacker is offline
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I don't feel the need to defend the Shield. It speaks for itself...on the range. Pocket carry works for me unless I am in jeans, but then I haven't found one that works with jeans. For those times, it is a snap western shirt over a shoulder holster.
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  #47  
Old 05-07-2012, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC View Post
I have a PM9. I am very pleased with it as my EDC gun. I bought it last July after a lot of research on pistols smaller than my G27.
I am also interestd in the Shield and will try to locate one locally this week.
If I do and buy one, I won't be getting rid of my PM9.
However, I'm not all that thrilled that S&W saw fit to equip the Shield with a manual safety. It could be the one thing that queers the deal for me.
Ugghhh .. again, the safety is a non issue, recessed that you barely notice it's even there should you decide not to use it. A huge difference is that you can shoot the Shield all day, easily 300 -500 rnds and not end up with a sore hand. Try that with any other small gun. Oh, the rapid fire is sweet .. no loonng trigger pull to get in the way.

Here is my Shield with standard M&P Trijicon night sights and a 4 lb trigger






Last edited by kris7047th; 05-07-2012 at 08:18 PM.
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  #48  
Old 05-07-2012, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
I don't know - I have pocket carried it since Thur. The size difference from the Shield to the PM9 I had is insignificant IMHO.
Which pocket do you carry in. The little bit of size difference is huge if you carry in the back pocket.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:58 PM
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I just checked out KahrTalk.... LOL!!

Kind of funny how each group defends their favorite guns, even when they never held, fired or carried the competition.

I have BIL that swears by his XD! I even let him shoot my M&P's but his skull is so thick he doesn't see the superiority of the M&P.

I could see as soon as he picked up my M&P he frowned. Talk about being predisposed to hate something....

I also just watched another Hickock45 Shield review and he stumbles at the end saying he gets hate mail because he doesn't list the bad points of each gun he reviews... So he's holding the Shield saying "Let's see...... disadvantages..... bad points..... ummmm... well it has a limited cartridge capacity. And, uh, it's a 9mm and maybe you don't want a 9mm so that would be a disadvantage! Otherwise there is nothing at all wrong with this little gun."

I saw a comparison between the 9c and the Shield and that made me feel better for waiting until the Shield LE comes out. Meanwhile I can load just 8 rounds in my 9c and carry that and pretend it's a Shield.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pineappleshooter View Post
Which pocket do you carry in. The little bit of size difference is huge if you carry in the back pocket.
This is what I wear when I am not at work. I carry a phone, flashlight, knife, keys, a gun and more. So, I like the pockets.

I have several different pairs...


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