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  #1  
Old 05-11-2012, 11:05 PM
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Default suggest self defense ammo for 9mm Shield please

Lots of different bullet weights/types out there.

What will work well in the Shield?
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:34 AM
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Probably will get alot of different opinions but what I use with all my SD guns (Shield included) is Speer GD 124gr +P. I get it online in the boxes of 50 for what my local gun shops sells boxes of 20 for

Buddy of mine uses GD as well but the short barrel type on his Shield - I don't see the need for the short barrel ammo but ymmv.

GL
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:38 AM
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Speer GD 124gr +p
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:39 AM
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+1 on Speer 'LE' Gold dots. Works well in all my pistols.
Winchester SXZ9 (Bass Pro exclusive?) also works well and also in 50 round boxes.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:04 AM
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I agree 124 gr +p Speer gold dots.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:22 AM
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same, go with the speer
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:05 AM
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Nothing against Speer Gold Dots, but I will buck the trend and offer what I use. 124g +P Remington Golden Sabers.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:41 AM
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Speer Gold Dot SB's or Corbon DPX's
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:10 AM
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The shorter the barrel, the more velocity loss. The lighter/faster bullets lose a higher percentage of velocity than heavier/slower bullets. I carry 147 grain Golden Sabers in my Glock 26. It's very accurate and mild shooting too. As a bonus you don't have to pay premium prices for it and it comes in 25 round boxes.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:13 AM
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Speer Gold Dots here as well...124gr. Use em' in everything I carry...
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:46 AM
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I mostly carry RBCD Performance Plus. It's bad stuff, did a T&E when I worked on an outdoor show, & it was impressive. Its very high though, like $40 for a box of 20. I do mix rounds in my mags as to benefit from all available technology. I like the Gold Dots, & Golden Sabers as well, plus Winchesters new version of the old Black Talons.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:51 AM
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Hornady Critical Defense.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:01 AM
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I've tested mine with Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot LE, and Hornady Zombie Max--all of them worked just fine.

My favorite carry ammo is Gold Dot, and the other brand I rotate through and carry is Hornady Critical Defense.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:09 AM
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All good suggestions. Try several of them and see if you and the gun have a preference; all will work fine as SD loads.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:29 AM
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Really, RBCD Performance Plus, name one department or agency that issues this ammo. It is amazing that this company can still find enough suckers to stay in business. Law enforcement and the ammo companies have done vast amounts of research into what produces an effective bullet and then to produce them. Self defense loads require a mix of expansion and penetration, today there are more effective loads on the market than at any time in history. Any good quality load from any of the makers will work, I like the 147 gr. Federal HST but other brands work just as good. Go to the Federal Law Enforcement website and study the testing chart, their ammo is tailored to meet certain specs and it does.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack View Post
Really, RBCD Performance Plus, name one department or agency that issues this ammo. It is amazing that this company can still find enough suckers to stay in business. Law enforcement and the ammo companies have done vast amounts of research into what produces an effective bullet and then to produce them. Self defense loads require a mix of expansion and penetration, today there are more effective loads on the market than at any time in history. Any good quality load from any of the makers will work, I like the 147 gr. Federal HST but other brands work just as good. Go to the Federal Law Enforcement website and study the testing chart, their ammo is tailored to meet certain specs and it does.
Hmm.. did not know that they might have probs. Good to know, I may have to re-think, on using it, don't want to be mislead on their kool-aid. Thanks
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:00 AM
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I use the Speer 124 gr. +p GDHP short barrel (# 23611) loading in my PM9.
Function is 100%.
Velocity is 1116.6 fps and 1121.2 fps for each of two 6 round strings out of the 3.1" bbl. of the PM9. ME is about 350 ft. lbs.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:34 AM
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I bought a 20rd box of federal 124g hydra shoks when i bought the shield. I shot the 12 left that dont fit in the flush mag to make sure they dont have feed issues. When i find a box of gold dot LE's i will replace the HS. We carry speer gold dot LE's on duty and they just plan work.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dohmein View Post
Probably will get alot of different opinions but what I use with all my SD guns (Shield included) is Speer GD 124gr +P. I get it online in the boxes of 50 for what my local gun shops sells boxes of 20 for

Buddy of mine uses GD as well but the short barrel type on his Shield - I don't see the need for the short barrel ammo but ymmv.

GL
Agreed. I bought Speer GDs from Cheaper Than Dirt in 9mm and .22WMR Both are specified short barrel. I also have in stock Ranger 147 SXT and Hornady CD. No problems with the Shield.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:30 AM
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I like 124 + P in either Federal HST P9HST3 or Speer Gold Dot.

Tommato
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:46 AM
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I use Federal HST or Speer Gold Dots. I get them at policehq.com for $30 for a box of 50.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:53 AM
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Federal HST 147gr is my choice. Bill
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC View Post
I use the Speer 124 gr. +p GDHP short barrel (# 23611) loading in my PM9.
Function is 100%.
Velocity is 1116.6 fps and 1121.2 fps for each of two 6 round strings out of the 3.1" bbl. of the PM9. ME is about 350 ft. lbs.
Excellent information!

Any idea what the standard 124 +p GDHP (for longer barrels) comes out of a short barrel at? I carry a 9c and bought the regular ammo but if there is a big difference in speed for the short barrel stuff I'll get it.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:33 AM
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Lost Lake, here are some average velocities for a few of the 124+P loads from a Glock 26,that I ran a couple of years ago. These are just the averages,I won't post every round:

Speer Gold Dot 124+P: 1200fps
Rem.Golden Saber 124+P:1124fps
Win.Ranger RA9124TP : 1181fps

All these are are recommended 9mm loads and perform well. I did not have any 124+P HST's at the time and only ran the 147 which averaged 949fps from the G26's 3 1/2 in barrel with expansion of .69 in the medium.

I have considered staying with the 147HST for the Shield,but may use the 124+P,depending on how things look when I have a chance to properly test and chrono some loads from it.
You can't really have "fail" with any of the premium loads,even from the 3.1 inch barel of the Shield,but some may perform better than others,and I have a sneaky suspicion that a 124+P may be better in this gun.
The bullet designs we have now make quite a difference,also.Velocity is not the big bugaboo that it once was,but I still think it can help with these barrels less than 3 1/2 inches.
If you look at my velocities for the Gold Dot and compare it to what JimC posted for the three inch,it appears that it falls right in line,with not much loss in the three inch.
Most times you have to give up a little something( velocity,but not much) in order to gain something else(portability,concealability).
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:44 AM
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Don't know specifically about the Shield, but my favorite 9mm carry loads are as follows in order.

1. Winchester Ranger 127 grain +p+

2. Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +p

3. Hornady Critical Duty 135 grain in either standard pressure or +p.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Lake View Post
Excellent information!

Any idea what the standard 124 +p GDHP (for longer barrels) comes out of a short barrel at? I carry a 9c and bought the regular ammo but if there is a big difference in speed for the short barrel stuff I'll get it.
No but I can tell you this, the Win. Ranger (#RA9TA) 127 gr. +P+ loading only does 1117.4 fps out of the little 3.1" Kahr bbl.

I'm sure this is due to not all of the powder buring before the bullet exits the bbl.

I have chronographed this loading out of a SIG P226 4" bbl. and have gotten on average, 1189.1 fps for a 10 rd. avg.

From what I've read, Speer used powder in the SB load that would give the best velocity in the short barrel guns.

Another good load out of my PM9 is the Win. 147 gr. JHP Bonded (PDX1) Personal Protection load. I've not yet run these over my chrono. I'm also not sure how this load will expand out of a short barrel.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:42 AM
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Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums

Doc Roberts is one of the best qualified, if not the best qualified, experts on LE/SD ammo choices. I have carried the Winchester +P+ (first the 115 grain "Illinois State Police" load, which I bought really cheap on the state contract, then the 127 grain successor to it) in 9mm for a long time, with complete confidence. I am trying the Black Hills 9mm +P with the Barnes all copper XPB this summer. Get at least 200, and preferably 500 malfunction free rounds through the pistol before carrying for real.
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie-Bean View Post
I've tested mine with Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot LE, and Hornady Zombie Max--all of them worked just fine.

My favorite carry ammo is Gold Dot, and the other brand I rotate through and carry is Hornady Critical Defense.



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Old 05-12-2012, 12:34 PM
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Armed Babysitter did qualify his comment with not knowing about the Shield, but mentioned using +P+ in some of his pistols. (I'm not Dissing Armed Babysitter... It Just reminded me of similar discussions on other brand specific forums.)

The shield is my first S&W Semi-Auto and page 11 of the manual reads:
Quote:
“Plus-P-Plus” (+P+) ammunition must not be used in Smith &
Wesson firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates that
it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation
does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore such
ammunition may vary significantly as to the pressures generated
and could be DANGEROUS
Do any of the Old Timer M&P shooters go ahead and run +P+, or does everyone pretty much abide by the Manufacturer's statement?
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:51 PM
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Thanks for those numbers Stu!

It looks like your standard GD rounds performed about the same as the short barrel rounds. Maybe the short barrel are more important for 1" to 2" barrels?

Robz: I think the +P+ disclaimer is lawyer speak because S&W has no idea what the shells will be. They don't conform to standards so what are they?

That said, a big name ammo maker is going to do their own testing and probably not sell bullets that are going to damage a bunch of guns and blow people's hands off (at least I would think they would take precautions).

I know from rolling my own for revolvers, I have had some rounds (working up to a really powerful shell) that took my breath away and made me stop and inspect the gun very closely. I did not shoot any more of those and I think I found the maximum charge I could use.

What I'm saying is you will probably know that a round is a bit too much long before your gun will be damaged by shooting a few of the loads. But I'd think any heavier load would warrant good maintenance and checking the gun regularly.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Lake View Post
Robz: I think the +P+ disclaimer is lawyer speak because S&W has no idea what the shells will be. They don't conform to standards so what are they?
That's pretty much what I figured... That since there's no 'standard' for +P+ pressures, manufacturers wouldn't sanction them.

Quote:
What I'm saying is you will probably know that a round is a bit too much long before your gun will be damaged by shooting a few of the loads. But I'd think any heavier load would warrant good maintenance and checking the gun regularly.
Yup... While penetration and expansion is important, I've always weighed that against recoil control and being able to get back on target for quick follow-up shots.
Thanks!
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
...Try several of them and see if you and the gun have a preference; all will work fine as SD loads.
This was the only reply so far that you should pay attention to.
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Old 05-12-2012, 04:54 PM
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Federal Guard Dog 105 gr. EFMJ. Devastating little round.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:06 PM
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Make sure whatever you choose functions 100% in your firearm before you carry it. I like the GD 124g +p best but ymmv.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGlock View Post
This was the only reply so far that you should pay attention to.
Well there you have it.

May as well close the thread and move on, nothing else to see or read here.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:35 PM
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Stu Honea Stu Honea is offline
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Lost Lake,you're quite welcome. One other thing that I forgot to add. The Gold Dot loads,both the 124+P and the 147gr. had the most consistent shot to shot velocities of any of the brands I tested. I don't know if this is indicative of Gold Dots or if I just got into a good lot.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:51 PM
plouffedaddy plouffedaddy is offline
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Smith and Wesson M&P Shield Chronograph Test With Blazer 9mm TMJs and Winchester Ranger 115gr JHPs - YouTube

I'd say NOT the 115gr Winchester Rangers. I was surprised how slowly they came out of the my shield. I think you can even hear the confusion in my voice when I looked at the chrony and said the velocity in the video.
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Old 05-13-2012, 12:06 AM
anewkirk anewkirk is offline
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Cor-Bon 115 gr +P
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:52 AM
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im using the 124 speer gold dots as well
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:10 AM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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One of the issues no one seems to be mentioning is if there's any significant difference in controlabilty or accuracy between standard pressure and +P ammo in the Shield for any individual user. I don't notice any difference in the full size guns, but it may be significant for the OP with the Shield.

Any theoretical differences in terminal performance can't make up for poor shot placement.

In limited testing a couple of years ago, and in my guns, I didn't see anything in +P+ ammo worth the expense or loss of warranty involved in using +P+. The current JHP designs don't need to be driven at warp speeds to expand and if taken outside their design envelope may fragment and lose penetration.

Just about any modern design by a major manufacturer that functions reliably and accurately for you will work. If there's a load designed specifically for the short barreled guns, it might be preferable.

Last edited by WR Moore; 05-13-2012 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
One of the issues no one seems to be mentioning is if there's any significant difference in controlabilty or accuracy between standard pressure and +P ammo in the Shield for any individual user. I don't notice any difference in the full size guns, but it may be significant for the OP with the Shield.

Any theoretical differences in terminal performance can't make up for poor shot placement.

In limited testing a couple of years ago, and in my guns, I didn't see anything in +P+ ammo worth the expense or loss of warranty involved in using +P+. The current JHP designs don't need to be driven at warp speeds to expand and if taken outside their design envelope may fragment and lose penetration.

Just about any modern design by a major manufacturer that functions reliably and accurately for you will work. If there's a load designed specifically for the short barreled guns, it might be preferable.
I don't see any appreciable difference between stand velocity loads and +P loads in my PM9 however, there is a slight increase in using the +P+ for my testing and I stress…testing only.

I have to admit, I am not recoil sensitive even with small frame autos so I may not be the example you’re looking to hear from.

I have put less than a box of 50 rds. of the Win. +P+ 127 gr. ammo thru my PM9. I see no need to use it in my pistol for EDC.

The Win. NATO spec 124 gr. FMJ (#Q4318) only shows a little more recoil than a standard 124 gr. loading even though it is loaded to 10% higher than industry standard pressures.

The accuracy that I have experienced with my PM9 using the Speer 124 gr. +P GDHP for short barrel load is very good to excellent.
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dohmein View Post
Probably will get alot of different opinions but what I use with all my SD guns (Shield included) is Speer GD 124gr +P. I get it online in the boxes of 50 for what my local gun shops sells boxes of 20 for

Buddy of mine uses GD as well but the short barrel type on his Shield - I don't see the need for the short barrel ammo but ymmv.

GL
I agree. The 124+p shoots straight and true!
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:50 AM
cocojo cocojo is offline
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I prefer the federal HST 147 in standard loading.
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:36 AM
Dean1818 Dean1818 is offline
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Plus 5 on the. Corbon DPX

2nd choice...... HST

Both performed very well in my wetpack tests
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:59 AM
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Now I understand why I can't find Speer 124 grain +P GDHP anywhere. You guys are all hogging it!
Actually, I purchase online as that's the only outlet I've found for 50 round boxes at a decent price.

Here's another vote for that round.

Last edited by MIST; 05-13-2012 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 05-13-2012, 02:30 PM
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I know a boss at a midwestern PD who swears by the 124 +P Gold Dot based on multiple shootings in which it has performed well and consistently for their officers.
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:35 PM
joechaos joechaos is offline
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Winchester Ranger T
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxtrot9 View Post
Federal Guard Dog 105 gr. EFMJ. Devastating little round.
I bought two boxes of this and I'm hoping to try it tomorrow along with some Gold Dot and Hydra Shok. I also plan on running a couple of hundred Federal Champion through the pistol just to be satisfied with it before the wife starts carrying it.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:35 PM
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I'm interested to see such a heavy response for the gold dot. Also interested to see the non-comment comment re Hornady CD.

I use federal guard dog but am certainly open to change, especially since it seems like the GD isn't as pricey.

Am I swallowing the hook when I've believed the ballistics tests I've seen on various gun shows about the Hornady CD? I've actually been thinking about seeing how it feeds and feels as the penetration/not over penetration results with good expansion facilitated by the polymer filler was appealing. Seemed like whatever they threw at the round it would penetrate about 13" into the gel behind it (FBI standard test regimen iirc). I would love to see/ be pointed to more info that I'm about to be drinking the koop aid. If that is already posted then I apologize.

I don't really have much more really quantitative ways to gauge a round's quality other than determining feed reliability and seeing what it does to a variety of homemade targets.

Thanks
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackjr View Post
I bought two boxes of this and I'm hoping to try it tomorrow along with some Gold Dot and Hydra Shok. I also plan on running a couple of hundred Federal Champion through the pistol just to be satisfied with it before the wife starts carrying it.
Please let us know your results
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