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Old 05-15-2012, 10:02 AM
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Default Massachusetts compliant Shield?

In another thread on this board someone mentioned that the Shield is not "Mass compliant".

Can you (anyone) help me out and explain what this means? What do they have to do to the Shield to make it "Massachusetts compliant"? If someone that lives in Mass buys a shield that isn't "Mass compliant" can they bring it home with them?
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:23 AM
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A S&W tech told me that they have to put a 10lb trigger on it. That SUX !
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:43 AM
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10 lb trigger? Say what? Does that mean every gun sold in Mass has to have at least a 10lb pull on the trigger? Very hard to believe that.
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:01 AM
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If you have the time read the link below. It eventually gets into the MA compliant rules sprinkled in among other items. Tough reading MA gun laws and getting them right without getting dizzy first. It's no wonder that Glock doesn't even bother selling new guns here.
940 CMR 16.00 - Attorney General Martha Coakley - Mass.Gov
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Last edited by yanici; 05-15-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:15 AM
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count your blessings if you live in a free state, I can't wait to move out, 9 years and counting.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:02 PM
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The MA shield when it is approved will have a 6.5 lb trigger as it has the thumb safety.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:31 PM
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Wow. I had no clue. Ok, so for those of you that live there and have to put up with this **** I have a couple more questions:

1) If you live in Mass and have a legal CCP (no restrictions) and you buy a gun in another state, like say a Shield that is not Mass compliant, can you return with it and register it? How does Mass know if it is "mass compliant"?

2) Lets say you wait and S & W finally releases a Mass compliant Shield with 6.5lb trigger pull. Is there anything from preventing you from doing a mod to the gun and putting in the non-compliant trigger after you get it home?
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Chevy View Post
Wow. I had no clue. Ok, so for those of you that live there and have to put up with this **** I have a couple more questions:

1) If you live in Mass and have a legal CCP (no restrictions) and you buy a gun in another state, like say a Shield that is not Mass compliant, can you return with it and register it? How does Mass know if it is "mass compliant"?

2) Lets say you wait and S & W finally releases a Mass compliant Shield with 6.5lb trigger pull. Is there anything from preventing you from doing a mod to the gun and putting in the non-compliant trigger after you get it home?


1)If you are a MA resident with a MA license, you can't buy an out of state hand gun unless it is shipped through a MA FFL. No MA FFL will transfer a noncompliant gun. The only way to get one in is if you move into MA from another state. Then you can bring your Shield with you. Once here, in MA, you could sell the Shield to a licensed person in a private sale but not through an FFL.

2)I contacted S&W customer service and was told that the MA Shield "WILL" have a 10 pound trigger in spite of the safety being present. You can do the trigger yourself if you want to after purchasing the 10 pounder.
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:12 PM
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I've been told by 2 dealers who have it in stock that it will be 6.5 lbs.. I've also dry fired it and it felt more like 6.5 than 10. CS doesn't always have the right answer.
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:18 PM
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Here is the URL for the "Approved Firearms Roster" for Massachusetts. It is my understanding that nothing is "Mass Compliant" until it makes this list and nothing makes the list until it is tested. Notice that Tarus has nothing on the list. I'm told it's because they refuse to test.

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/...ter-2-2012.pdf

Note this list is for February, 2012. I think it is the latest, but if you google "approved firearms roster massachusetts" you can find the latest at any time. Merv
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mervstump View Post
Here is the URL for the "Approved Firearms Roster" for Massachusetts. It is my understanding that nothing is "Mass Compliant" until it makes this list and nothing makes the list until it is tested. Notice that Tarus has nothing on the list. I'm told it's because they refuse to test.

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/...ter-2-2012.pdf

Note this list is for February, 2012. I think it is the latest, but if you google "approved firearms roster massachusetts" you can find the latest at any time. Merv

Here's the kicker. Just because the gun is listed on the EOPS list does not make it MA compliant. Only the AG can determine that and the AG is silent until you try to sell a gun in MA and then will fine you if iy is not MA compliant. Also, the AG does not publish a list of compliant guns but leaves it up to the manufacturers and dealers to decide if it's worth the chance to sell each model gun. It's just a crazy mind boggling system that needs to be corrected but our liberal, gun-phobic legislature won't do their job to correct it.
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by icemn View Post
I've been told by 2 dealers who have it in stock that it will be 6.5 lbs.. I've also dry fired it and it felt more like 6.5 than 10. CS doesn't always have the right answer.
The gun that the dealers are showing you and have for display purposes only is not the MA compliant one that they will be selling. I hope you ae right about the S&W CS person being wrong about the trigger weight but I'd trust the CS's answer over a dealers.
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Old 05-15-2012, 03:18 PM
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Not sure why they'd show a 6.5 gun if it's gonna be 10. Time will tell. If I do end up with one and am forced to get a 10 lb trigger, I'll be on the phone to APEX in a heart beat.
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:28 PM
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It's 10 lbs, with or without a safety. My mp9c was 10 lbs without a safety, apex went in before I ever shot it. There's nothing stopping you from altering the trigger once you buy it, the dealer just has to sell it with the MA compliant trigger pull weight.
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:50 PM
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Guys you're the best. Thanks for all the information and help. I don't live in Mass but have a relative that does. After shooting my Shield this past weekend they were all set to go buy one for them self. They had no clue about all this stuff. With your help I'm educating them.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:16 PM
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I heard mid summer there should be a MA compliant version of the Shield
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:52 PM
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Anyone want to guess why I live just about one mile north of the Massachusetts border in gun-friendly New Hampshire. Grew up in Mass and left there in the 60's; have never regretted that move. Also left California in the 70's after living there for five years. That was a good move too.
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:53 PM
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Well I continue to find out more and more about how lucky i am not to live in Mass. The laws there are beyond stupid. It appears to be completely at the discretion of the "local" police chief as to whether or not you can get a gun permit. There is no uniform set of rules that apply to all citizens of the state that they can follow and get one.

Gun licensing requirements vary at discretion of local police - Hanover, MA - Hanover Mariner

My blood relative already has a permit but the rest of the family doesn't and now they're not sure if they'll be able to get approved. No one in the family has as much as a traffic ticket either. Very long standing family in the community, fire department affiliated, school teacher, . . . back ground wise it doesn't get much better/cleaner.

And there is some idiot in the state that thinks there is low gun violence in the state due to this series of laws. This is just crazy. Very glad I don't live there.
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:05 PM
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We have the highest violent crime rate in the Northeast here in MA. These back*ss gun laws are really keeping everyone safe and sound from those bg's.

And yah, it's a treat to have to go in for an interview after paying the money to take the proper courses, just to see if the local chief thinks that your worthy of your 2nd amendment rights or not. Gotta love "massghanistan"
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:30 PM
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Anyone want to guess why I live just about one mile north of the Massachusetts border in gun-friendly New Hampshire. Grew up in Mass and left there in the 60's; have never regretted that move. Also left California in the 70's after living there for five years. That was a good move too.
No, I don't want to guess. Why would you live so close?
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:30 PM
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"Mass compliant" The Pope doesn't like plastic guns. (I think he's more of a Luger man.)
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Old 05-24-2012, 03:10 PM
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Not sure why they'd show a 6.5 gun if it's gonna be 10. Time will tell. If I do end up with one and am forced to get a 10 lb trigger, I'll be on the phone to APEX in a heart beat.
The 6.5 gun is a show piece and a show piece only LGS in mass are under strict rules that they must NOT sell the weapon and use it only as a demo piece. When the shield does become compliant they will have to return the 6.5 gun
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Old 05-24-2012, 04:21 PM
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"Mass compliant" The Pope doesn't like plastic guns. (I think he's more of a Luger man.)
I would think that he, like most, would favor Beretta, although the previous one may have favored the Vis, which was usually called a Radom.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:40 AM
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On the S&W site they "NOW" list (2) MA Compliant Versions: 9mm & .40S&W

The first one listed is the 9mm & The second link is the .40S&W


http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...layErrorView_Y

Product: Smith & Wesson M&P SHIELD

SKU: 180051

Estimated Availability - October 2012
Trigger Pull:10.5 lbs. +/
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:51 AM
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i think its stupid that each state has its ''own gun laws'' everystate should have the same laws ....some states need no courses or certifications to get a gun, when you turn 18 walk in and walk out with a gun. no wonder there are so many maniacs runnin around killin people.....
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icemn View Post
Not sure why they'd show a 6.5 gun if it's gonna be 10. Time will tell. If I do end up with one and am forced to get a 10 lb trigger, I'll be on the phone to APEX in a heart beat.
You have to be careful here. Should you have to shoot a burglar in your house which would normally be justified, the police will take your gun & test it. Then the DA will want to know why you "hotrodded" your trigger to exceed the Mass spec's on what is legal in your state. You just don't know what the law can do in those Commie states. GARY N4KVE
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:15 AM
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You have to be careful here. Should you have to shoot a burglar in your house which would normally be justified, the police will take your gun & test it. Then the DA will want to know why you "hotrodded" your trigger to exceed the Mass spec's on what is legal in your state. You just don't know what the law can do in those Commie states. GARY N4KVE
There are NO laws stating you can not lower the #'s on the trigger of a gun you own!

With that being said....

In Massachusetts: If you shoot anybody... Even completely "Justified" to protect yourself or the life of another. You better get a Lawyer!
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:59 PM
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In any state you will need to get a lawyer. But the first thing you need to do is get the names of all the witnesses. You will need them when the case goes to court.
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:18 PM
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My new MA compliant will be quickly have its 10# trigger redone. Ain't no doubt about it.

I just plopped down $389.99 for a 9MM Shield because we have tax free weekend coming up and local shop let me pay ahead by two days. The guns should be available in MA sometime in September.

It looks like they won't have the red flag LCI that the CA guns have and I also noticed that the MA model didn't list having a mag disconnect. Should be a great gun after I get the trigger done.
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:28 PM
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10 lb trigger? Say what? Does that mean every gun sold in Mass has to have at least a 10lb pull on the trigger? Very hard to believe that.
Chevy, believe it. It is true. I live in MA. Example: I attempted to buy a PC 625. The LGS owner checks his vendors. Many have 625's in stock but NO MA compliant 625's I ask the GS owner what is the difference. The powers to be here in the Commonwealth have imposed heavy trigger pulls. So unless the trigger pull meets MA standards the gun IS NOT compliant. Thankfully I purchased most of my guns years ago before the change. SA= 5 3/4 and DA=10lbs. HELP!!
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by coorslight View Post
count your blessings if you live in a free state, I can't wait to move out, 9 years and counting.
COORSLIGHT, I'll second that. 7 years and counting. Retirement and heading North to God's Country. Good luck.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:45 PM
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16.05: Sale of Handguns Without Childproofing


(1) It shall be an unfair or deceptive practice to sell a handgun without a safety device in violation of M.G.L. c. 140, 131K.

(2) It shall be an unfair or deceptive practice for a handgun-purveyor to transfer or offer to transfer to any customer located within the Commonwealth any handgun which does not contain a mechanism which effectively precludes an average five year old child from operating the handgun when it is ready to fire; such mechanisms shall include, but are not limited to: raising trigger resistance to at least a ten pound pull, altering the firing mechanism so that an average five year old child's hands are too small to operate the handgun, or requiring a series of multiple motions in order to fire the handgun.

(3) It shall be an unfair or deceptive practice for a handgun-purveyor to transfer or offer to transfer to any customer located within the Commonwealth any handgun which does not contain a load indicator or magazine safety disconnect.

(4) 940 CMR 16.05(2) shall not apply to handguns which have a hammer deactivation device. 940 CMR 16.05(3) applies only to handguns that have a mechanism to load cartridges via a magazine.

The MA compliant Shield SKU 180051 has a 10.5 pound trigger pull. If however, I am reading the law correctly, according to section (4), section (2) does not apply if the gun has a hammer deactivation device.

I haven't received my MA compliant Shield yet (just purchased from a PA gun shop) but I believe that it has a hammer disconect just like my other carry gun, the big brother model 59. If that is the case, why does it need the 10.5 lb trigger???
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:35 PM
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I was lucky and picked up my Shield here in MA and they sold me the non-MA compliant version.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevy View Post
In another thread on this board someone mentioned that the Shield is not "Mass compliant".

Can you (anyone) help me out and explain what this means? What do they have to do to the Shield to make it "Massachusetts compliant"? If someone that lives in Mass buys a shield that isn't "Mass compliant" can they bring it home with them?
The Massachusetts compliant Shield does not have a firing pin, has a plugged barrel, and is completely non-functional.

To buy it, you have to submit an application, pay a $200.00 fee and submit your fingerprints, taken on a digital scanner which is only available at the state agency which evaluates the applications, and the address of the agency is not published and their phone number is unlisted.

Actually, the big difference is the trigger pull. Massachusetts compliant pistols must have a trigger pull greater than 10 or 10.5 pounds. There are probably other requirements, but that is a big one.

The heavy trigger pull MAY help with negligent discharges, but virtually guarantees that you will miss your intended target and hit a bystander or family member.
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Old 12-27-2014, 03:35 AM
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My MASS Compliant 9mm shield, according to the sticker on the box has a 10.5 lb trigger. It's got a saferty as well (Any gun I carry I feel better with a safety)
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Old 02-07-2016, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Chevy View Post
Wow. I had no clue. Ok, so for those of you that live there and have to put up with this **** I have a couple more questions:

1) If you live in Mass and have a legal CCP (no restrictions) and you buy a gun in another state, like say a Shield that is not Mass compliant, can you return with it and register it? How does Mass know if it is "mass compliant"?

2) Lets say you wait and S & W finally releases a Mass compliant Shield with 6.5lb trigger pull. Is there anything from preventing you from doing a mod to the gun and putting in the non-compliant trigger after you get it home?
I've got an unrestricted concealed carry permit and if I go across the border to NH, I have to produce that permit, even to buy ammo. To purchase a handgun, it must be MA compliant, and be shipped to a licensed seller in MA. I can then take it back to them and have it modified. Pretty stupid that I have to buy the handgun from them, have it shipped to MA, then go back to the same store and have it modified for $60.
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Old 03-03-2016, 01:28 PM
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I am a retired career LEO who recently moved into MA from the Midwest. Soon after my arrival, I brought my two service guns (Mods 66 and 60) to my new local PD for registration, as had been required at my former residence. I was told by the Chief that firearms registration was not required, but I should apply for a "License To Carry" (LTC). Since I held permission to carry by the LEOSA Act, I asked why I needed a MA LTC. he replied "the Feds don't live in my town, but you do". I understood his message, and obtained the LTC, and with permission for extended capacity magazines too. I set out to refresh my inventory with selections from the M&P line of pistols. Sadly, I had intended to do so before I left the Midwest, and if I had, my selections would have been grandfathered in under MA laws, as long as I have the paper trail to prove it. Shoot!

BTW Gents, remember that all firearms transactions are traceable, and the Feds seem more efficient when a LEO is involved. I once met a US Atty who kept score of his LEO convictions...never mind...'Nuther thread, eh?

What I learned is less than 6 months old, and learned first hand. This is 411 from the horse's mouth, not a distant relative of my sister's first boyfriend. I offer this to y'all out of respect for y'all. Some of my comments conflict with previous posts here, some compliment. Either way, it is with respect.

The "why" of the heavy trigger pull has been explained correctly. My research revealed the same results. Moreover, the NYPD supports it because they have uncountable guns in the hands of active and retired officers, all of whom need 3X the training and range time they get. Thus, training and range time is "sketchy" at best, and most, if not the majority of that population are not "gun nuts" such as us. My former Department counted (or tried to) no less that 17,000 "off duty" guns, and gave up the counting at that number. How many of those LEOs do you think really care about trigger pull?

The Shield (and other M&P guns) are "striker fired", thus the gun is actually a single action mode when at the ready, yes? Shouldn't take too long at the range to learn how to deal with the pull, and the reset. My two 9c pistols reset the firing stage with less than 1inch of slide travel, making dry fire at home an easy chore.

My experience is that the Shield, 9, and 9c can be purchased with a mag disconnect, or a manual safety, but not both. I chose the manual safety and installed the mag disconnect after purchase because you CANNOT add a manual safety after purchase. Gunsmiths are willing, but S&W will not install after purchase and will not sell the part(s), to anyone. Not Brownells, not Midway, no one.

Remember...Everything you do to change a gun (including all guns now) after buying it, you are responsible for. The post ^there where you are cautioned, is 100 percent true, and 90 percent likely. If you are caught (in any manner) with a gun that does not meet MA law, the gun is confiscated and the state has a choice of criminal or civil prosecution. If it is a "heater case" such as a child killed by an unintentional discharge, expect both. Hell, even your next-door neighbor can sue you for harboring a dangerous weapon in his vicinity. DO NOT underestimate the civil process, seems like "high silly" earns high score.

I can say more, but I've said enough for now. I expect the usual comments, not a problem. But be respectful, save the stone throwing for when I really blow it out my azz.

Y'all be safe.
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Old 05-02-2016, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Sergntmac View Post
The "why" of the heavy trigger pull has been explained correctly. My research revealed the same results. Moreover, the NYPD supports it because they have uncountable guns in the hands of active and retired officers, all of whom need 3X the training and range time they get. Thus, training and range time is "sketchy" at best, and most, if not the majority of that population are not "gun nuts" such as us.

You have no idea what you are talking about.
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  #39  
Old 05-03-2016, 08:07 AM
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Ksimons Ksimons is offline
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[QUOTE I understood his message, and obtained the LTC, and with permission for extended capacity magazines too. I set out to refresh my inventory with selections from the M&P line of pistols. Sadly, I had intended to do so before I left the Midwest, and if I had, my selections would have been grandfathered in under MA laws, as long as I have the paper trail to prove it.

This is not true. The only large capacity magazines legal in MA have to have been manufactured pre-ban 1994. Seeing there were no M&P's pre 1994 they are not legal in MA.

Saying this when I purchased my FS M&P 40 from a local store and it was a MA compliant model when I got it home looking closer it had two 15 round mags in the box that I now keep at my camp out of state.
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Old 05-03-2016, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
I understood his message, and obtained the LTC, and with permission for extended capacity magazines too. I set out to refresh my inventory with selections from the M&P line of pistols. Sadly, I had intended to do so before I left the Midwest, and if I had, my selections would have been grandfathered in under MA laws, as long as I have the paper trail to prove it.
This is not true. The only large capacity magazines legal in MA have to have been manufactured pre-ban 1994. Seeing there were no M&P's pre 1994 they are not legal in MA.
Hopefully, he was just talking about bringing in some "free state" version pistols from the M&P line and not post-ban hi-cap magazines to go with them.

Although, I wonder if he is protected by the LEOSA Act in that regard?

Remember too that Massachusetts law is changing and exempting cops and ex-cops from even more of the rules that we peon non-LEO subjects must live under. I haven't gotten into that topic very much because I am neither a LEO or a former LEO.
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Old 05-03-2016, 05:44 PM
Granite Stater Granite Stater is offline
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[QUOTE=Sergntmac;138979755]I am a retired career LEO who recently moved into MA from the Midwest. Soon after my arrival, I brought my two service guns (Mods 66 and 60) to my new local PD for registration, as had been required at my former residence. I was told by the Chief that firearms registration was not required, but I should apply for a "License To Carry" (LTC). Since I held permission to carry by the LEOSA Act, I asked why I needed a MA LTC. he replied "the Feds don't live in my town, but you do".

The MA AG didn't like FEDS (ie Leosa) telling them what to do about carrying on the badge so MA created a CMR which regulates issuing LEOSA cards to retired Officers. So if you retire from the Springfield MA PD your firearm instructor cannot qualify you yearly for LEOSA unless he gets licensed from the State Police and as a part of the CMR you must have an LTC to get a LEOSA card, plus a yearly 3 hour class and qualify. So MA did an end run around LEOSA by requiring an LTC to get a LEOSA card and yearly qual to carry under LEOSA. Also MA general law states that active duty Police can only carry their service weapon on the badge, no other firearm allowed. Adding insult to injury if you retire and move out of State you cannot be qualified from your old PD because you must have a "Resident" LTC, non resident LTC holders cannot get a LEOSA card.
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Old 05-04-2016, 04:07 AM
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Hopefully soon the 2nd ammendment will be our permit.
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Old 05-04-2016, 08:13 AM
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[quote=Granite Stater;139073920]
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Originally Posted by Sergntmac View Post
I am a retired career LEO who recently moved into MA from the Midwest. Soon after my arrival, I brought my two service guns (Mods 66 and 60) to my new local PD for registration, as had been required at my former residence. I was told by the Chief that firearms registration was not required, but I should apply for a "License To Carry" (LTC). Since I held permission to carry by the LEOSA Act, I asked why I needed a MA LTC. he replied "the Feds don't live in my town, but you do".

The MA AG didn't like FEDS (ie Leosa) telling them what to do about carrying on the badge so MA created a CMR which regulates issuing LEOSA cards to retired Officers. So if you retire from the Springfield MA PD your firearm instructor cannot qualify you yearly for LEOSA unless he gets licensed from the State Police and as a part of the CMR you must have an LTC to get a LEOSA card, plus a yearly 3 hour class and qualify. So MA did an end run around LEOSA by requiring an LTC to get a LEOSA card and yearly qual to carry under LEOSA. Also MA general law states that active duty Police can only carry their service weapon on the badge, no other firearm allowed. Adding insult to injury if you retire and move out of State you cannot be qualified from your old PD because you must have a "Resident" LTC, non resident LTC holders cannot get a LEOSA card.
This clears a lot up. There is so much hidden BS in MA. I have a large capacity permit that is only good for anything pre 1994....
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