Well I just got off the phone with S&W and they said my M&P is on it's way back. You wanna know the work they did to it?? They adjusted the GD sights.

I then spent a little time talking to the guy about the accuracy issues and how Apex is making new locking blocks and barrels to fix this issue. He was a aware of both companies and said "huh" when I told him. He also mentioned Storm Lake was going to make barrels as well.

He then asked what ammo I was using, I told him and he said they seem to work best with 124gr +P ammo. I told him that was one of the 7 different types of ammo I tried in 2 different brands. I wasn't really looking for him to do anything over the phone but it's good to pass on any info to them.

It seems S&W did nothing but test it at 15 yards and adjust sights that were not off at all. Maybe they put some sights in that change and predict when a bullet is going to shoot 6" off from the last one.. Hopefully they send a target with the gun since I have no clue what grouping they got.

I read the entire thread over at M4carbine.net about the accuracy issues and if you haven't yet, go check it out since it has responses from Randy Lee himself. Guess I'll try the Band-aid fix with the 20# spring and wait for Apex to release the locking blocks and barrels.

As a back story, I started a thread here questioning early unlocking issues. I then noticed that after using 7 different brands of ammo in 3 different weights, bench resting or off hand got me no better than a 10" group at 15yards. This was not a high,low,left or right type of group but a nice circular group with even one round almost dead center. A S&W tech told me 3" at 25 yards is what they are suppose to get so I'm assuming 10" at 15 yards is exactly what I'll get back since adjusting sights had nothing to do with it.

I got these groups with the stock set-up, with the Apex sear and my DIY polish job on the striker block. The trigger is better than 90% of my other handguns and I've had quite a few hammer,striker, DAO/DA-SA/SAO handguns that shoot much better at longer distances.Heck, the little BG380 I just bought got 3" groups at 15 yards my first time out.

BTW, above is just a back story, not something to revive any argument that it's me and not the gun and obvious issues. I didn't want to revive the old thread since it was a wash of different responses about different things.

You say that you did an Apex sear and a DIY polish job....did that affect the warranty at all?

I took the Apex sear out before I sent it in and I'm sure the polish job on the striker block went unnoticed so nothing affected the warranty.

ETA: All they probably did was shoot the gun, tap the rear sight over and call it "in-spec". I'm sure the slide was never removed from the frame.

For what its worth, my wife's new S&W M&P 9mm with factory Novak Night sights will shoot 2" groups hand rested at 10 yds all day long. No modifications, straight factory, great trigger, just a hint of creep before the break. Has been 100% reliable with Speer 124 gr Lawman and Win NATO. Win 115 gr will not function reliably but I haven;t been able to get that ammo to function 100% in any new 9mm pistol.
She is quite happy with her M&P and it will replace her GEN4 G19.-Dick

I wish mine shot like that although your FS 9mm should shoot no more than a 3" group at 25 yards according to S&W. Have you ever tried to shoot it at that distance?

A member just told me he had accuracy issues with his M&P but they are currently sending his gun back with a new barrel.

I'm not sending mine back in again even if it's off when I test the stock recoil spring and 20# recoil spring side by side. Total nonsense to send in a gun expecting something and all they do is move a sight over. If needed, I'll wait for the gurus at Apex to fix it properly.

I've already sent in a Solo for the slide not locking back on an empty mag twice and both times it came back with the same problem. I no longer own the Solo which is why I went with the Shield I'm finally picking up today. I mention the Solo since it seems S&W's repair section is no better than some if I need to send it in multiple times for them to finally do something right or before my gun goes to the guy who knows what to look for. Although slide to frame fit is not as important as barrel to slide fit, my slide to frame fit on the FS 9mm was quite sloppy compared to my other poly guns like the BG380 or even the Shield I rented. I stated everything wrong with my FS 9mm in a letter with the gun and I got an adjusted sight back.

If you can shoot a FIST SIZED group on a B-27 Target at TWELVE FEET (12'), You're GOOD TO GO.

The Shield is a DEFENSIVE CARRY FIREARM, not a target pistol.

If you SHOOT TOO FAR in a CIVILIAN CAPACITY, you subject yourself to spending a GREAT DEAL OF TIME IN THE JOINT.

Long sentences in THE JOINT, and your FIREARMS ARE GONE FOREVER BABY.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

I wasn't talking about the Shield, but the FS 9mm. The Shield I rented was able to produce a 2.5"-3" group at 15 yards and my FS 9mm was shooting a 10" group at the same distance. Smaller grip, smaller barrel and sight radius but I'm able to shoot smaller groups? I've always shot FS handguns more accurately than the micro compacts so if it's the opposite of that, it's the gun.

Please keep us posted. If it doesn't do better than it did before, I'd strongly suggest hunting down whoever runs customer service at S&W and taking the subject up with them.

I'm sure every job category has folks who don't exactly set the world afire with their apptitude and/or enthusiasm. Getting influence running downhill can help improve their performance.

If its still bad call S&W and ask to speak to the Customer Service Manager. I sent mine in for the same thing and got it back with a new barrel and it now shoots great. Seems one of the keys it to tell them that its shooting vertical groupings. Mine really was doing that 2 inches wide and 7 inches high. A vertical group is supposed to be a sign of the barrel unlocking. If you do talk to the Customer service manager and he wants it sent back in get them to promise to expedite it so it goes to the top of the line and you get it back in less than a week.

Dont give up on it just because someone there didnt to their job. On the whole S&W has great service but there is always someone that isnt doing their job in any business.

Good luck.

Well I did get the gun back. You know what they did, they adjusted the rear sight. Know how they adjusted the sight....to shoot to far to the right.

So I sent them a gun for accuracy issues,I wait almost a month, they return it with an adjusted rear sight that did not need adjusting and in fact made it worse. After the range I took it home and my laser bore sighter confirmed the improperly adjusted rear sight, so I got out the delrin tipped punch and hammer and put it back where it's suppose to be.

As far as the range session went, the groups were the same 10 inches until I put in the 20lb recoil spring I brought with me. Now the groups are down to 4" at 15 yards and that is still terrible. I shot my Shield at the same time using the same ammo and got a best grouping of 2" at 15 yards. First 5 shots with my Shield was 3",by the end it was down to 2", so I believe another range session will have me easily under 2" groupings or better.

As far as the FS 9mm goes, over 500rds though it, a modified trigger pull with an Apex sear and rounded/polished striker block making it have a far better trigger pull than most of my other handguns and it still gets 10" groups unless I put an aftermarket spring in it as a band-aid early unlocking fix?

Honestly, I'll wait until Apex comes out with the new locking blocks and barrels. At least they may actually fix something unlike the original manufacture.

I think you should talk to a supervisor at S&W. Like others have pointed out, you probably received bad service which is unfortunate, but it happens. I'm sure they receive 1,000 guns a day and they adjust sights on them and 999 people think it's a miracle their gun is fixed.

Your gun is one of the few that have an actual problem, and you need to bump it up a notch. Call them again, talk to someone in charge, explain your situation is beyond the normal sight bump, and I think you'll get fast and excellent results.

Good luck!

I had the same problem with a M&P9 pistol manufactored in February 2012. I resolved the poor group size by hand grinding and 400 grit wet polishing the barrel crown. It was visibly uneven and had deep chatter marks all around the crown. The reason I even thought about checking the crown was because 2 years ago I bought a new Springfield XD 9mm. It shot 24 inch groups at 25 yards. I took it back to the LGS where I bought it and they test fired it 3 rounds in a 10 yard private indoor range. The guy that shot it is a competition shooter. He got a 7 inch 3 round grop at 10 yards. The pistol went back and was returned saying that they adjusted the front sight. The original factory "witness" marks, a dot marking the edge of the sights position on the slide, indicated that was a lie. It now shot 3 in groups at 25 yards. I went crazy trying to figure out what they did-I marked the barrel, slide and other components discretely to verify any claims that they "replaced" anything. Nothing was replaced or showed work, until after a month I thought about the barrel crown. Sure enough when I closely examined it, it was the same barrel, BUT they recut the crown!
These companies just are not going to be honest by choice.

10-8 Performance: S&W M&P Barrels, An Informal Test

Accuracy issues with some 9mm M&Ps, particularly at distances greater than 10 yds, seem to be common knowledge in some quarters. Interesting info and tentative results of test by Hilton Yam at link above may indicate S&W has recently changed barrel geometry and twist rate to fix said accuracy problem. If proven to be conclusive, this would be great news for everyone except those folks making match barrels for 9mm M&Ps.

When did S&W stop producing threaded barrels? Because mine is identical to the "2012" geometry below:



S&W also told me that there has not been any change to twist rates.

Taptalk won't let me upload another image in original post. Here are my two barrels. Non threaded is from a MAR 12 gun.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1343148338.088286.jpg

See, this is why I can't trust what these so called techs/smith at S&W tell me. I asked one of them that seemed to know his stuff if the barrel profiles every changed and he said never. He then added that he could go out to the machine area and produce the same barrel they've always put in the M&Ps.

I have the 'new' production looking barrel in my fs 9 and it was not accurate.

This whole thread is the perfect example of why I bought a PPQ instead of a M&P9.

And I really wanted to pretend all of the M&P9 accuracy issues were all the result in poor trigger skills or bad shooters.

A lot more truth in that than you think.

I posted about my M&P FS 9mm accuracy issues in another thread. Just got my pistol back from the factory(two week turn around) and the enclosed letter stated it was inspected and test fired,in-spec no repair needed.

My gun was purchased in Spring 2012 and appears to have the new contour barrel,I will have to check the twist rate.It can do about 4" at 7 yards with 115/124gr fmj type ammo,have not tried 147gr yet.Past 7 yards it begins to really open up.
One time when I really tried to slow fire I got vertical stringing and the gun was shooting several inches low.This has been reported on other forums.It seems the gun has a mind of it own.

I expect no less than 3" at 25 yards from a service pistol with average ammo.My other 9mm platforms can do this or better.The M&P 9 cant even hit the paper at 25 yards.My Chinese #213 9mm will out shoot the S&W.

This is the second S&W "new" product I have sent back for repair.The first was a BG38 revo for misfires and poor accuracy/POI problems.S&W gave me a new gun and so far the reliability is good but still a bit ammo sensitive,likes 110/125 jacket not 158+P LSWC -HP and still a bit too high and left with 135gr+P GDs.
S&W seems to have a QC problem.

I have a new M&P 9mm full size. Just picked it up yesterday. Shot it today. It was produced in April, has the new contoured barrel, does not have a hole for an ambidextrous thumb safety, and it is a lemon.

I don't have anything new to add, but to add my name to the list of "last time customers." I have a S&W Mod 41 and it is awesome. Now this M&P.

I've been a member of a pistol team, and for what it's worth, repeatedly qualified as pistol expert in the military. I normally shoot 1" round stickers from an office supply store on plain white paper. Out to 10 yards, I can usually keep my shots at least touching the dots. Pretty close at 15. (This is usually with centerfire Sigs and HK's.)

It really pisses me off that it shoots so horribly. As an American, it's embarrassing. I was missing an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper at 15 yards. I think I would be better off with a bag of billiard balls than this thing in a gun fight. By the time I pay to have a new barrel installed, I'll be pushing the cost of an HK. It sure does feel nice to hold though.

Oh, and I'm a lefty. I reversed the mag release per the supplied owners manual. The mag follower is so sloppy that it tilts to the left. As a result, it hangs up on the mag release as it is on it's way back up. Leaves a tangled mess of bullets, requiring disassembly of the mag after it fails to feed.

Needless to say, I won't be advertising it at the range. It's going back in the box, and on the shelf where it will stay. Nice work S&W.

So strange cuz mine shoots like a champ and it is also a new build. I did have to install an Apex FSS trigger kit to make it better though. But I'm able to get A-zone hits at 15yrds plus quite easily if I do my part.

I shot it again tonight. Just to make sure it wasn't something weird yesterday.

I started with my P229 .22 conversion and some Federal Automatch, (which is not all that accurate.) Off of a rest at 25 yds, I had just over a 2" group. Then I went to my USP .45 and had a 1.5" group at 25 (using Hornady XTP). Next up the M&P. With 115 gr HXTP, it grouped at about 8". With 124 gr JHP it grouped at 18"!!

It's depressing.

In practical terms for those that say there is no need to shoot at 25 yds. The Navy uses 25 yds for their marksmanship qualification. It would be impossible to qualify expert using this handgun. I doubt it would even get you marksman. Even if every shot was a "x" when the gun fired.

I know is frustrating having a new gun that is unavailable to shoot well. I have two M&Ps 9mm (Full and Compact) I’m not consider myself a “good shooter” but I’m able to shoot 3” groups at 25 yards rest but unable to get less than 4” groups same distance hands on, I loaned my guns to two well experience shooters and both were able to get 2” groups at 25 yards hands on.
IMO before saying the whole brand is cr..p I would go to any range and rent another gun (same brand and caliber) and test it. If the rented works as bad as my own gun then maybe I would say its sh..t but maybe it works flawlessly and you just got a lemon.

Call S&W, get a call tag and send it in for repair. Simple and easy.

My FS 9mm shoots exceptionally well. 15 yard groups average under 1.5 inches with anything I put in it and gets even better with 147 grain bullets.

My FS .40 does even better and had over 16,000 rounds downrange and probably ten times that in dry fires before I needed to replace the sear assy. I use this gun in USPSA/IDPA matches.

I called S&W on a Tuesday and had the part in my mailbox on Thursday. That is the S&W Customer Service "I" know. They cannot address anything they don't know about.

Randy

I know there is some emotion imbedded in my post. For that I apologize. However, I am 100% confident it is not my technique. This serial number does not shoot well to put it mildly. I can't imagine any modern day manufactured weapon being sent out the door for sale shooting this poorly. There is not a lot of rocket science involved in the way it operates, and S&W was by no means the first to invent it.

Given "who" S&W is, how long the M&P has been fielded, this simply should not happen. If you look at S&W's recent quarterly earnings, they are making record profits. There are many accounts of other people having the same issue. At the same time there are as many accounts if not more of people having good accuracy with the M&P9. There is simply no justifiable explanation for the accepted quality control associated with the M&P9. It's not a "one of" situation. It is happening over and over, and most accounts indicate that S&W accepts the weapon back for warranty, inspects and returns them untouched and determined to be "within spec." Others have parts replaced and have the same problem when they get it back. I missed this in my research. Had I come across this, I would have a P2000 or P30 sitting in my safe now begging to be shot.

I called them. The gentleman I spoke with said he used to work on the range and that they had to shoot a 3" group or better to be sent back out. He is emailing me a shipping label to return it.

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Good luck w/ the warranty repair. I hope they're able to fix your problem. It's a real shame to give up on an otherwise excellent tool. It's like you said, the thing fits like a glove.

I believe one member here had his barrel recrowned and that fixed it. Others are saying it's the locking block. There are just too many variables to be sure what is causing the inaccuracy in each case.

The barrel is tight when the slide is forward, but as soon as the slide starts to move, the barrel starts to drop. It will actually fire with the slide back 1/8-3/16" from closed. But thats another issue.

Anyway, with the barrel tight when the slide if forward, my guess is:

1) Locking Block
2) Barrel locking lug
3) Slide Barrel fit

It has to be one of those, if not a combination.

It's been back 5 times now. 2 new barrels, 1 new slide, and the 4th time they shot it at only 15 yards and found no problem.

I was able to repeatedly duplicate their 15 yard 1.5" 5-shot group. My best 25 yard group was just under 8".

It's probably your eyes. I have an astigmatism and it took a while to find a way to adjust for it. In the meantime I was driving the gun company crazy sending back my 5.25 XDM. I figured it out by lending it to a friend who was able to shoot it much more accurately. Eventually I got some adjustable-focus glasses and the problem went away. Astigmatism - You might want to google it.

Oh one more thing - the astigmatism wandering focus issue is worse the longer the distance between sights. In other words, it would explain why the shorter gun seemed more accurate. Just a few inches can make a difference.

Since I started this thread, I'll add something more recent. Sold the inaccurate M&P FS 9mm I had awhile back and bought another M&P FS 9mm with the new trigger reset, barrel and whatever else they've changed. Test fire date is mid-march 2013 and the groups right off the bat are 2.5" or less at 15 yards with any ammo. Hmm...guess it wasn't me after all.

Nak, I've got a question. I'm considering this very pistol for my first pistol. I've been doing a lot of reading about the accuracy issues with this pistol. On your new pistol from 3/13, have you now tried it at 25 yards, and if so, what kind of groups are you getting? Thanks.

I have 2 M&P 9s, one is from mid-2012 and the other is December 2012, if I recall correctly. The early one has the horrible accuracy that everyone complains about, the other is a tack driver. Same ammo, shooter, trigger, sights, magazines. Same everything, so I think we can rule out extraneous factors. I wish there were a way I could send it back and know that I would get the new barrel rather than playing games with a stupid sight adjustment. Does anyone have a name or contact at S&W so I can get this done right the first time? I don't feel like I should have to spend $150 on an aftermarket barrel to have acceptable accuracy.

Thanks, Andy

I had good luck talking with a man named Jason at S&W customer service. Was very professional. The phone number I used was (800)331-0852 EXT 4125. HTH

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Minimize the variables

In my last M&P pistol armorer recert last year, the instructor mentioned that the engineers were still working on tweaking the 9's for complaints of accuracy issues. Guess this is one of the effects of having designed the gun from the start as a .40 S&W pistol, and then working on revising the model to chamber it in 9mm.

I tend to like the M&P chambered in .45 ACP, myself, as my '08 production model has been an absolute tack-driver since NIB, rivaling my last couple of new 1911's (Colt XSE Gov & SW1911SC 5"). Other guys I know who have ordered M&P 45's have experienced similar excellent accuracy. A couple guys at the factory had been fairly vocal about how well the M&P 45's shoot, too. One uses his for 3-gun, if I recall right. (Stock, no PC or aftermarket parts, either. )

Anyway, I've recently had the opportunity to try a few newer production M&P 9's (VTAC's & 9c's), and the inherent accuracy with duty 124gr +P loads seems just fine. The owners of those guns have been very pleased with them (a mix of other shooters & instructors who are mostly 1911 & Glock owners, as well as S&W 3rd gen users).

A newer M&P 9 FS sent for T&E has been found to be very satisfactory by folks trying it, too. I keep meaning to run some rounds through it myself, but I'm always busy with something or other when working the range. Maybe next month.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Thanks for the information, Fastbolt. Do you have any contacts at the factory that you could check with currently to see if they've finally sorted out the accuracy issues on the 9mm FS?

Let me send some queries.

The newest ones I've been using don't seem to have any inherent or practical accuracy issues, though.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Plastic gun with mostly stamped out parts.. Ya it does darn good taking into consideration how it's made and what's it's made out of.. cost to S&W to produce the M&P line, not much at all.. I would bet that they make less money on the M&P 22 do to over seas shipments.. Parts and mags are almost never in stock for it.. You want your gun to print better get a better gun a Colt 1911 or any other make all steel high end model at around $6000 grand or more.. i think you will be happy with more consistency all the way around!! at 20 to 25 yards they all do more then fine.. They will do fine for there intended use. Suck it up or shell it out for a better made gun!! George

Even though this thread should be done, I'll reply. As you can see in my posts and thread, my original was shooting 10" groups at 15 yards and the newest one I bought a few months ago is doing 2.5" groups at 15 yards with the same ammo and shooter. I've owned/own other poly 9mms like the PX4 subcompact, XD/M subcompact/compact/tactical/4.5, Glock 26/19,SD9VE, Shield and M&P 9c.

I owned the Shield at the same time as the original FS and it was getting 1/4 of the groups the FS was. All of those other poly guns got 1/4 or less size groups and all of them with the same ammo and shooter.

I think it's time to realize that there was a problem with the older FS 9mm models which seem to be corrected in the more recent production.

I am interested in this thread because I own a FS 9 that was test fired at the factory in 08-15-07. So my gun is approaching 6 years old. I bought this gun from a buddy not quite a year ago. Ron is an expert shot and instructor, also a former DEA agent. He buys many many guns as investment purposes. (Currently he owns approx 40 handguns.) He swore my gun had only been fired 10 times, and I believe him because the gun appeared to be brand new with absolutely no finish wear. He provided a target from his one time at the range with this particular gun. All shots are within one quarter quadrant of the one-inch red #10 circle. This from a distance of 7yds (21 ft). While I can see at least 6 outlines -- and with the quadrant blown out, there is no reason to believe it wasn't 10 shots. I kid you not - he is THAT good.



I can't get anywhere close to that -- DUH -- the best I can do is to keep most all of my shots within a 6" target. But -- I make no claims to be any kind of an expert shot. I am relatively new to the handgun game, even though -- what must be a lifetime ago -- I qualified with a .45 back in '61 in the Navy.

I love this gun, and it is my Home defense (nightstand) weapon. I have TruGlo sights on it, a Viridian X5L laser/light, and an Apex trigger mod. So -- what is not to be happy about? Really nothing, but I have now read so many threads regarding the inaccuracy of this weapon - blamed primarily on older style barrels, that I sometimes wonder if I could improve my groupings by opting for a new barrel. BUT -- within a split second I am then reminded of the test-target I keep in the gun's box. How can you improve on perfection when the gun is in the hands of someone who really knows his sh**? So, there'll be no calls to S&W, or replacement barrels. I just thought I would toss my story into the mix here about FS 9s.

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M&P-9FS,Shield40,642,32ColtPPS

From everything I've read, the much older models seemed to be okay and somewhere along the line they changed the barrel geometry and that's when accuracy issues where coming up. I've heard it's the locking block, barrel, recoil assembly and so forth.

I can only go by my experience as fact that the FS 9mm I owned in mid 2012 was incredibility inaccurate even after two trips back to S&W and a new barrel. Straight out of the box after not shooting a M&P for awhile, my 3/13 FS 9mm was and is getting 2.5" groups. IMO, S&W QC/production and/or machinery was afoul there on the 9mm FS barrels. Maybe they outsourced the barrels at that time like they do other parts, I don't know.

I'm just glad they fixed it. Now that Shields are flooding the market, I hope they can do something about the lack of 17rd 9mm magazines.

Thanks. I look forward to hearing what you find out. I appear to have some time as I can't find an M&P 9FS with the thumb safety anywhere around here. I'd order off of Gunbroker but I want to make sure I get one from recent production.

Thanks, I'll try him Monday.