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  #151  
Old 01-18-2013, 08:03 PM
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Default M&P 9mm accuracy issues?

Happy with my M&P 9s accuracy. Hits a nice grouping center of mass on the outline of a perp on the target That's what it is for at least in my case. Plus it fits perfectly and feels great in my grip. Very happy with it over any of my Glocks
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  #152  
Old 01-20-2013, 10:02 AM
Justin69 Justin69 is offline
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I am very happy with the performance of my fs m&p 9mm. Have had it bout a year & half & it seems that my accuracy keeps getting better as the gun ages (if that makes sense).
Dont regret buying it at all!!
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  #153  
Old 01-20-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by budrichard View Post
...
As to barrel makers and other add ons, these companies get rich by taking advantage of the fact thier touted improvements cannot objectively be verified but most when adding these improvments subjectively and psychologically perceive an improvement. ...
Yep, same as golf club companies. Before I came to my senses and quit the game I knew this guy who would spend $300 for a new driver instead of $100 on lessons. After the newness of the driver wore off, he went back to his old habits and resumed shanking it into never-never land...
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  #154  
Old 01-20-2013, 10:56 PM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
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Back before Christmas I had decided to just set my current M&P 9mm aside and wait for a better day (i.e., a new barrel). Recently I have had the opportunity to shoot a brand-new M&P 9 full-size model a bit and compare it to my older M&P9L.

The new gun had the usual incredibly terrible M&P trigger that I have so much trouble with, but this one seemed to improve quickly. I could notice considerable improvement after a little dry-firing and the first 100-rounds.

The new gun was ammunition finicky, just like my 9L. It seems to like the same handload my 9L likes, and is doesn't like the same ammunition the 9L doesn't like. The good thing is that the new gun seems to be more consistent and is not so liable to throw a wild shot or flyer as is the older gun.

The new barrel seems to fit up about like the barrel fits in my 9L, but internally it is different. It has a faster twist rate (I didn't try to measure either one) and the appearance of the rifling is different. The rifling in the new barrel seems to be both sharper and deeper. Interior finish of both the lands and grooves seems to be about the same, possibly the barrel in my 9L being a bit smoother, but it has been fired more, too. The design of the leade or transition at the front of the chamber looks similar in both barrels, both in length and angle, but I really didn't spend a lot of time looking at that. I was paying more attention to the rifling.

The best group I shot with the new gun was around 3-1/4" at 25-yds from a rest (5-rounds). Since I only had my handloads with me when the opportunity came along to shoot the new gun, next week I have scheduled a re-match, so to speak, in order to be able to run a few factory loads through it and see how it likes them.

Looking at one older gun and one new one really doesn't prove much of anything, but it does appear S&W is fiddling around with barrel specifications, possibly to address accuracy complaints - or maybe just to provide the faster twist-rate that apparently aids function of the modern, high-performance JHP loads. Who knows which?
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  #155  
Old 01-21-2013, 11:25 PM
S. Kelly S. Kelly is offline
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Well, I took the plunge, going to try a used one out. Figured the worst that can happen is that it sucks and just ship it back to S&W.
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  #156  
Old 01-22-2013, 01:31 AM
mrlizzzard mrlizzzard is offline
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I am crushed.I am new to pistol shooting but a long time shooter,trap,clays hunting rifles.Wound up with lung cancer and decided if I wasn't able to those things I could shoot and learn pistol skills.

I started in Nov. with a Tristar C100 and for $300 it was accurate and felt fine to me but It was made in Turkey and I try to buy American sooooooooo I purchased a SR9 and shot it well.Not quite as well as the Tri but well enough to keep.That was until light hits and FTFeeds happened.

As I can only afford 1 gun I thought why not get an M&P9 to go with my M&P22 and be done with it.So I scraped up the cash and marveled at the feel of the M&P and took it to the range.I have not had a happy day in 3 weeks.This pistol shoots to my left and all over the paper on height.I can not hold a 4 inch group at 10yds.

I have changed ammo.cleaned and recleaned got new glasses and it's the same old thing.One good hole and two bad ones.

Wishing to shoot some event competitively what the heck do I do?

thanks for listening,
mrlizzzard
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  #157  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:03 AM
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Are you right-handed? Where is your finger on the trigger? The pad, or the crook where it bends. This will affect where the rounds are going, every time.

Cannon
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  #158  
Old 01-22-2013, 02:38 PM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlizzzard View Post
Wishing to shoot some event competitively what the heck do I do?
Mrlizzard, you need to buy your pistol depending on the type of competitive event you plan on attending. An M&P is not a competition pistol for any venue where accuracy is at a premium. What we are talking about here is the level of accuracy we expect in a service-type pistol. The debate is whether the M&Ps are providing that, and as you can see, we even have some debate about whether we should be talking about 2.5", 3"-4", approx. 4", 4"x4" (Colt's standard, BTW, for the new Marine Corps' 1911) - or just what?

Sorry you are having so much trouble with your M&P but it does sound like you are not quite used to its trigger just yet. BBS1 pointed out that the triggers on the striker-fired guns are a different kettle of fish for those of us who have been shooting since shortly after the last ice age. Given your background - and mine - he may have a point.

Hope you get things straightened out. If in doubt, get a couple different, experienced shooters to try you gun and see what they can do.
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  #159  
Old 01-22-2013, 10:17 PM
mrlizzzard mrlizzzard is offline
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thanks for replies.I try to keep trigger between back of nail and first joint.What 9mm would be good for competition or a .22 even.I do like my M&P.22 and it is accurate.

mrlizzzard
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  #160  
Old 01-22-2013, 10:33 PM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
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Mrlizzzard, have you done any dry-firing with your M&P9? If so, what do your sights do when the trigger breaks? Are you satisfied that the sights stay exactly where you want them when the gun "fires?" If you can't do it when dry-firing, it isn't likely to happen with live-fire. I don't know how many rounds you have through the M&P but you should find the trigger improves as you use the gun.

If you want a 9mm for informal target shooting (i.e., club-level bullseye or similar matches) you might look at a 1911. Para Ordnance seems to know how to make a 9mm 1911 shoot, if my LTC9 is any indication. That particular Para is not really a dedicated target model. They may make one? I am not familiar with their line.

SIG-Sauer makes some very nice 9mm target pistols. They are a bit expensive. You might look around for an S&W 952 - also expensive. It all depends on the level of accuracy you want and what you intend to do with the pistol.
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  #161  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:47 PM
mrlizzzard mrlizzzard is offline
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You guys are great.Little shakey on the dry fire.

mrlizzzard
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  #162  
Old 01-24-2013, 11:17 AM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlizzzard View Post
thanks for replies.I try to keep trigger between back of nail and first joint.What 9mm would be good for competition or a .22 even.I do like my M&P.22 and it is accurate.

mrlizzzard
Depending upon how long you're fingers are, this is too much finger through the trigger guard. You need to have the finger pad under the nail on the trigger. Exactly how much depends upon where your finger has to be to allow the trigger finger to come straight back.
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  #163  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:29 PM
mrlizzzard mrlizzzard is offline
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Put a Tasco red dot on this weekend.I canuse it or iron sights.Put 40 rounds thru it during sight in and 100 after.Pistol is grouping now with just occasional flyer.Change finger position and seems to shoot much better.Using set trigger.I am learning lots here thanks everyone.

mrlizzzard
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  #164  
Old 01-26-2013, 01:37 AM
rlh rlh is offline
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I just recently purchased a Canik55 C100 imported by Tristar, as well. I am much more accurate with it than both my M&P 9 and 40 full size. Great firearm. My new favorite.
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  #165  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:05 AM
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I AGREE,with rlh .For $299 you get accuracy,metal frame,2mags.Gun show coming and the m& p may be on the table.

mrlizzzard
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  #166  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:19 PM
Rodinal220 Rodinal220 is offline
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M&P Viable or not? Mods required? - M4Carbine.net Forums
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  #167  
Old 02-03-2013, 10:31 AM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
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Thanks for that link. There never seems to be much in the way of meat and potatoes to these discussions of M&P9 accuracy and that one was no different, but Mr. Vickers' comment that S&W seems to have "snatched defeat from the jaws of victory" does seem to ring true with the guns I have been shooting.

Since my 1/20 post I have been shooting the new M&P9 full-size gun more and have come to the conclusion it is just as bad as my older M&P9L. The gun is a 5-inch (average) gun at 25-yards, with any given quality factory FMJ ammunition. I have not been able to duplicate the single 3.25" group fired initially. Subsequent shooting has yielded anything from 3.5" to 7" groups (5 rounds, shooting from a rest on an indoor range). This not to say some ammunition yields 3.5" groups and others yield 7" groups. The gun can fire anything in that range with the same ammunition. It is just pitifully erratic.

Thinking back on S&W's history of producing service-grade autoloaders, I do have to agree with Vickers that what the M&P is doing now is not dissimilar with what the Model 39 was doing in the '70s and the 59 was doing in the '80s. There does not seem to be a lot of interest at S&W in making these guns shoot, though they have succeeded in making them ergonomically attractive and highly reliable. The dead-giveaway of this disinterest in accuracy has to be the reprehensible triggers. S&W should hide in shame to release guns with such uniformly awful triggers, and as to accuracy, the term "good enough" seems to have been bent into extraordinary shape in order to justify continued production of this model as-is.

I have yet to see an M&P in either 9 or .40SW that was an acceptable shooter. I do disagree with Vickers that the Shield is some sort of improvement. It is "slick," as he says, since it is fairly judged more by pocket gun standards than those of a belt gun, but it has the same atrocious trigger and the same lack of accuracy, in the ones I have been around.
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  #168  
Old 02-08-2013, 03:08 PM
MtnBubba MtnBubba is offline
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Mine is going back to S&W today for the 4th time.

Trip 3 yielded a new slide. No noticeable change. No statement or indication of a successful test fire at 25 yards at S&W. I had another person at my range shoot it from a sand bag with some otherwise good performing target loads in 115 gr and 147 gr. 3-4" group at 15 yards, 8" and 12" 10-shot groups at 25 yards.

Keeping FedEx busy...
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  #169  
Old 02-10-2013, 11:44 PM
Caravanken Caravanken is offline
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I am renewing my shooting and reloading hobby that I put aside in the 70's to raise a family. I shot S&W .357 revolvers then but now the 9mm has got my interest. I have applied for CCH and I have an LC9 to start out with for my carry weapon. I would like to buy a M&P 9 to use to improve my shooting skills and not necessarily get 2" groupings at 25yd.

Is there any reason I should not buy the FS M&P 9mm for the purpose I have described. It seems to me the issue is the weapon will not provide something less than 3" grouping at 25yd. For my purpose I really don't see an issue.
Thanks for your input.
Ken
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  #170  
Old 02-11-2013, 10:12 AM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
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Originally Posted by Caravanken View Post
...I shot S&W .357 revolvers then...

...It seems to me the issue is the weapon will not provide something less than 3" grouping at 25yd. For my purpose I really don't see an issue.
Two thoughts. First, if you are familiar with the accuracy an S&W .357 revolver typically delivers I think you will find the M&P depressing - unless you happen to get one that shoots OK. I have never seen one in the small calibers that does.

Second, with your background in shooting a quality revolver, I am a little surprised you think guns that routinely make 5-8 inch "groups" at 25 yards (or worse) would not be an issue. Sure you can familiarize yourself with the weapon, do your gun-handling drills, etc., but in terms of learning anything about your marksmanship, just forget it. You will be starting with 1.5-hands tied behind your back.

At the present time, if a high-capacity 9mm pistol of "modern design" interests you, I suggest you spend a bit more money and buy a SIG 226.
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  #171  
Old 02-12-2013, 08:06 AM
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OR.... spend a little LESS money and buy an XD-9
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  #172  
Old 07-15-2013, 09:55 PM
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Default MP 9 accuracy problems

I have a full size MP 9. Serial number prefix is DXC manufactured Jan 2012. I have 3500 rounds through mine and the accuracy sucks. From a rest at 25 yards 10 rounds at an 8" target only 5 were on paper. The gun seems to be accurate from 15 in, but any farther then that and it gets bad quick. Although I have noted a considerable improvement with 147gr ammo. I love my MP and have invested a fair bit of money into the trigger and sights, but at last it's up for sale. Wish I didn't have to, and I'm sure there is a fix but frankly this issue and the dead trigger issue I experienced 8 times has completely destroyed my confidence in the gun.
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  #173  
Old 07-16-2013, 11:31 AM
HereSinceTheLongHunters HereSinceTheLongHunters is offline
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Installed Meprolight Tritium, bore sighted, and punched the X ring at 7 & 15.. cheap ammo was dropping at 25yds, but had no trouble staying on center line of target.
The gun is accurate. My grip isn't always.

Factory front sight was off to the right and shot left.
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  #174  
Old 08-25-2013, 01:22 AM
MtnBubba MtnBubba is offline
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My FS has been back 5 times. Trip 5 resulted is some noticeable improvement, but it's still a relatively large group at 25 yards.

Then I cracked the code on this thing and it now shoots sub 1/2" groups at all distances. (They are 1-shot groups) For now I have given up on it. I may end up selling it. It doesn't have much use, a new barrel, Apex DCAEK, Trijicon HD sights...

I picked up an HK45c. I thought it might have slightly bigger groups compared to my USP. It shoots 2" 10-shot groups at 25 yards, without much effort. Any ammo I've fed it. I love it.
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  #175  
Old 08-25-2013, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by MtnBubba View Post
My FS has been back 5 times. Trip 5 resulted is some noticeable improvement, but it's still a relatively large group at 25 yards.

Then I cracked the code on this thing and it now shoots sub 1/2" groups at all distances. (They are 1-shot groups) For now I have given up on it. I may end up selling it. It doesn't have much use, a new barrel, Apex DCAEK, Trijicon HD sights...

I picked up an HK45c. I thought it might have slightly bigger groups compared to my USP. It shoots 2" 10-shot groups at 25 yards, without much effort. Any ammo I've fed it. I love it.
Sounds extremely frustrating. Just curious if you've had others shoot it with the same poor results.
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  #176  
Old 08-25-2013, 07:34 AM
Biscut Biscut is offline
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I bought my firs M&P (pro) 9mm a few months back. Stickers on the box indicate manufacture (or possibly shipdate) April 2013. I put the APEX trigger kit in her and while I haven't shot it from a rest 15yards 50 rounds is under 4" offhand. That is with Wolf 115gr which is horrible ammo but cheap!!

I also shoot a lot of Fed 147gr and she does even tighter. This 9mm is more accurate than me. I will, hopefully next week get it on a rest at 20yards and see what we get with the 147 Fed.

I don't know if the accuracy issue was a bad batch of barrels in the past or lockup, or whatever may be....but mine is everything I could ask in the accuracy department.

I just hit the 1k mark Friday.
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  #177  
Old 08-25-2013, 07:43 AM
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My solution to the problem was to trade it on a Springfield Armory 1911 9mm loaded. Now I can shoot the service gun match without embarassment.
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  #178  
Old 08-25-2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakanokalronin View Post
I've had 7 XDs and they all shot fine, I've had 6 Glocks and they all shot fine, I've had 15 1911s and they all shot fine, 2 P89s - fine,2 P95s - fine,Berettas - fine,multiple revolvers, multiple surplus guns, multiple pocket guns - fine, etc - all fine. Honestly, the M&P is the only gun where fans tell owners to buy something else just so nobody brings up legitimate problems. It's been the same on other forums so it must be a brand thing.

The M&P has everything I could ever want in a poly gun, but the accuracy is not there in my particular model. My Shield shoots close to 2" groups at the same 15 yard distance even though it has less grip, a shorter barrel and sight radius while using the same ammo I tried in the FS.

The thing I see most is the older model owners talk about decent accuracy ,yet you'll get random people talking about the accuracy problem in the FS 9mms, post Compact introduction. It's enough of a problem that a very well known and trusted aftermarket parts company is designing new locking blocks and barrels to improve the accuracy and lock up in models exhibiting these issues.

ETA: I'd link a current thread with 9" groups at 15 yards while being bench rested and pictures of targets from another forum and FS 9mm but I know that's against the rules. Let's just say ARFCOM and leave it at that. I'm glad not all models share the characteristic of mine and many others, but considering it's random, it's hard to pin point the problem in the production line.
I love the m&p. The one I would never trust my life to would be a Sig. Why? Because personally, I cant hit a dang thing with them. I have tried multiple different ones, all with the same result.

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  #179  
Old 11-30-2014, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M29since14 View Post
Unless you have fired an unholy number of rounds, that would be the opposite of what I would expect, but stranger things have happened, I'm sure. When you get a chance to test your gun again, I would be interested to learn how it comes out?

I agree with you that wondering whether the pistol or ammunition has let you down is not productive, and also agree that 2-inches, maybe 2.5-inches maximum, inspires a lot more confidence than 3-4 inches.
I found that it was shooting 5-6" groups at 25 yards, and there was a huge burr sticking up, at the front of the barrel hood. I almost cut the burr off, but, sent it to S&W. It came back saying NO work had been done, and it was within their accuracy specs. It looked like a blind man used a horribly rough grinder to remove the burr. I took it to the range, and it still shot ******. I sent it back to S&W, and got a call saying they were going to replace the bbl. He also said nobody there had ground/removed burr. It now shoots 2" groups again, but, only with 115 jhp.
In the screwing around with the Pro, I bought a fairly new full sized and it consistantly shoots 2" at 25 yards, but, only with 115 grain jhp. I tried two of my friends compacts, and could get just a little over 2" at 25 yards with both, after I found what they preferred for ammo, so I bought a compact. NOT HAPPY 6" at 25 yards with a current production gun. Thinking of getting a KKM for it.
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  #180  
Old 01-12-2015, 12:40 PM
cwallace cwallace is offline
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M&P 9mm accuracy issues? M&P 9mm accuracy issues? M&P 9mm accuracy issues? M&P 9mm accuracy issues? M&P 9mm accuracy issues?  
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Default Finally!!!

After 3 trips to S&W, and most recently the 2nd new barrel installed over XMAS, my M&P Full Size 9mm shoots consistent groups. I was practicing for USPSA the day I shot it, and set aside my STI Limited gun, and was ripping off fast clean 2-3" groups at 10 yds, and cleaning the plate rack. I will bench rest it at the range in the future, but I now know that it will shoot! Not a single flyer, which was what I was experiencing after the first barrel replacement. Un-F*#%ing-Believable!!!

The lugs on the new barrel are certainly different, very sharp on the edge, a bit more radius and a round cut-out at the inner most transition from the barrel to the lug protrusion.

Hopefully it stays this way. This gun had become a safe ****, and now I can bring it out and shoot it! It will probably live in my safe at work for protection when not being shot by my wife who loves the feel of this gun.

Not sure if I should say Thanks Smith and Wesson.... or not!
Just glad it is now a shooter!

Cw
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  #181  
Old 01-15-2015, 05:17 PM
Canuck44 Canuck44 is offline
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M&P 9mm accuracy issues? M&P 9mm accuracy issues? M&P 9mm accuracy issues? M&P 9mm accuracy issues? M&P 9mm accuracy issues?  
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I have four M&P's (2x9MM, 2x.40cal/PRO 5"s and FS) and like them for IDPA. All are shooters using 125 gr lead/plated/FMJ bullets. I don;t shoot 115's but when I tried 147gr lead bullets accuracy fell off.
I recently purchased a new S&W 1 - 10 twist barrel for my 9MM PRO and early results would indicate tighter groups both for the 125 gr and 147gr lead/plated bullets. The barrel after tax and shipping was only $110Cdn. I think the move to a more standard 1 - 10 twist for the 9MM round makes sense. The Europeans have been making their guns with the faster rate for years.

Now accuracy is a relevant topic. For IDPA and IPSC the M&P's are certainly accurate enough. They are not target pistols for sure. Too, none of my examples will shoot with my CZ 85 Combat or 75 Shadowline. I suspect the design just does not have the mechanical accuracy of the CZ 75 series.

That is my take on the guns. My M&P's work for me mostly in IDPA. They are dead nuts reliable. S&W has made a number of changes in the guns to make them better both internally and externally. For what they are designed for they are excellent. Target pistols they are not.

Take Care

Bob

Last edited by Canuck44; 01-15-2015 at 05:18 PM.
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  #182  
Old 01-15-2015, 08:14 PM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
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M&P 9mm accuracy issues? M&P 9mm accuracy issues? M&P 9mm accuracy issues? M&P 9mm accuracy issues? M&P 9mm accuracy issues?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck44 View Post
For what they are designed for they are excellent. Target pistols they are not.
Well, I'll certainly agree they are not target pistols, but when they generally won't shoot at least as well as an ordinary Glock, I wonder about the "excellent" judgment.
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