M&P thumb safety: why I think it's a excellent safety feature

[mgo]

Of course, this is my personal preference, and your thoughts may be different....

I rarely read that people like the thumb safety on the M&P because it enables safer holstering (cannot always see the holster when holstering) there's less chance of clothing or other objects snagging the trigger and firing the gun when holstering. Holster pistol, then snick the safety off. Pistol ready to go. (of course, I always check for that snag anyway before taking safety off!)

My HK USP variant 1 also has this excellent safety feature.
(Since the HK has a external hammer, one can keep the thumb on the hammer spur during holstering, too)

Also, when loading and unloading the pistol, the M&P thumb safety makes that operation less hazardous. (did you know that you CAN chamber/eject a round and load/unload the pistol with the thumb safety ON?) Less risky that way!

[Arik]

Ehh...hate those things. But to each their own

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[martyg2020]

The thumb safety is a just one more layer of protection from having a AD. If you are one of those lucky people that do not have kids and or grand kids who like to jump on you, you may not need one. As for me, I have a three-year-old, work with my horses, and ride my motorcycle, so I do agree they are a good thing if that is your liking.

[805moparkid]

there is nothing wrong with the safety... its there for the purpose of an Accidental incident where it could discharge. in a perfect world it would not go off unless you were ready... in a perfect world... between shirts, holsters, in and out of the car, there are alot of things that can happen.

must say this is the reason i always like hammers... i always have a +1 with hammer down, and with the extra power firing pin spring it cant bounce and go off, and with a reduced power main/hammer spring its easy to cock one handed...

[lamrith]

Originally Posted by mgo

Of course, this is my personal preference, and your thoughts may be different....

I rarely read that people like the thumb safety on the M&P because it enables safer holstering (cannot always see the holster when holstering) there's less chance of clothing or other objects snagging the trigger and firing the gun when holstering. Holster pistol, then snick the safety off. Pistol ready to go. (of course, I always check for that snag anyway before taking safety off!)

My HK USP variant 1 also has this excellent safety feature.
(Since the HK has a external hammer, one can keep the thumb on the hammer spur during holstering, too)

Also, when loading and unloading the pistol, the M&P thumb safety makes that operation less hazardous. (did you know that you CAN chamber/eject a round and load/unload the pistol with the thumb safety ON?) Less risky that way!

Why bother flicking the safety off when you holster? Keep one in the chamber, safety on. The gun is then no different that the much venerated and loved 1911 in condition one. Practice and train to draw and thumb the safety off as you bring the gun up. If you ever decide to try the 1911 format, then you already have the muscle memory built up!

[Shielded]

I like the safety on my Shield. A good design IMO. There if you want it, or out of the way if you don't.

[southchatham]

My 9c does not have the safety. I don't like safety's on my self defense guns. Just my opinion not saying it's not good for others.

[RussC]

The safety has grown on me.

I train pocket drawing sweeping safety dry fire. (1 1/2 seconds)

I personally believe everyone should get in the habit of sweeping safety everytime you draw.

If you pack with safety off you will hesitate to check if safety is still off when you draw. Why not make it second nature to sweep safety thus eliminating the possibility of hesitating.

Remember he who hesitates dies.

Russ

[JJEH]

Mine has a thumb safety and I love it!

[FLDan]

I agree, they're an excellent safety feature.

[Magster]

I think with kids and grand kids around you a thumb safety makes sense.

[Arik]

While in the holster, how would my gun go off while im in/out of car or having kids jumping around? Gun is fully in a holster with just the grip exposed?

No kids here.


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[catcus-jack]

No I really don't think a thumb saftey is needed on any M&P.A good holster and proper gun handling skills will do more to keep you safe than any manual saftey.

[Magster]

Pocket holsters do not as a rule, fit as tightly as a belt holster. A small hand reaching into a pocket as kids like to do, could possibly engage a trigger. When I'm around kids with a belt holstered gun, I like at least a level 1 retention if the gun has no thumb safety. You just never know what a child will do when they are near you.

[Danno_man]

I traded a friend my M&P for his (which had a thumb safety), because I'm a 1911 shooter and don't mind the thumb safety.

Mine was stock with a 10-8 rear sight and his was stippled, 10-8 rear sight, Dawson front, and Apex internals.

I did just buy a $2300 gun from him at the same time too, so the trade was just a bonus.

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[gnystrom]

Originally Posted by catcus-jack

No I really don't think a thumb saftey is needed on any M&P.A good holster and proper gun handling skills will do more to keep you safe than any manual saftey.

I disagree. Like it or not, use it or not, the manual safety makes the gun far more safe. You may not be the person in control of that particular firearm at all times.

[moxie]

Agree with lamreth. Use the safety the same way as with a 1911. It's not quite as ergonomic, but works just as well.

[Armed Babysitter]

I'll never own a striker fired auto with one, but if the thumb safety gives you the warm fuzzy's and helps you sleep at night, go for it.

It's merely another training issue to get used to, which for some will be a non issue if they're coming from a platform like the 1911 and are already accustomed to sweeping the safety off on the draw stroke.

[Nakanokalronin]

I agree that the thumb safety is a good feature for a striker fired pistol that only has a tab/hinged trigger to keep the trigger from moving if anything were to get caught in the trigger guard. No hammer to press down on and the trigger is going to move if it's pulled back by a shirt end, drawstring or holster edge as examples.

I'm used to 1911s and other guns with thumb safeties like a M&P FS, Shield and BG380 for S&W examples. I also shoot thumbs forward and all of my carry guns have thumb safeties so sweeping them off and putting them on when reholstering has been second nature for a long time. Training with a thumb safety transfers easily to those without since all I'll do is sweep air instead.

[DustyDawg48]

I'm with the OP and I love mine. In fact I have 3 M&P autos with thumb safties. They don't give me warm and fuzzy feelings or help me sleep at night; at most the give me a nice place to rest my thumb for a good grip, but I like them because there is that added layer of safe that can be easily and quickly ingrained into your draw. I started with a 1911 and the habit of draw/sweep never left even when I switched to Glock. I have my M&Ps now and it was 2nd nature to have the thumb safety off as soon as my pistol clears the holster.

While I've never been in a gunfight or self-defense situation, I've practiced thousands of draws and did countless draws on the clock in competition using my M&P45 (both of them) and my M&P9c and have never failed to flick the safety off. It is like any other skill where you have to train until you've mastered it.

I will easily concede the fact that they aren't 100% necessary but they aren't useless, either. I'm probably adding an M&P22 and eventually a 2nd M&P9 and both will have the TS, I like the idea of it that much.

[KyWstJoe]

I carried a Sigma for 4 years and felt a winch to pull the trigger would be more necessary than a safety. My buddy has an M&P and said he wished he got a safety. He's very compentant with hand guns being retired NYPD. I have been carrying a Glock G30 about 8 months now and wifey a G26. She felt very uncomfortable with one in the chamber and I kept thinkin' about "Glock leg" so I put "Siderlocks" on both and all's good. To each their own.

[catcus-jack]

Originally Posted by gnystrom

I disagree. Like it or not, use it or not, the manual safety makes the gun far more safe. You may not be the person in control of that particular firearm at all times.

If your not in control of your firearm at all times you either need to get more training or get rid of it.

[JJEH]

Originally Posted by catcus-jack

If your not in control of your firearm at all times you either need to get more training or get rid of it.

Now that is some BS. My wife and I share ALL weapons, there is no "mine" and "yours."

Therefore when she takes one, I'm not in control of this particular weapon at this particular time. So I should get rid of it?

Well, at least I can agree on the training part...

[catcus-jack]

No you shouldn't get rid of it just make sure she is compentent with it.If not she needs more training.If people quit putting 2-3lb triggers on these pistols they are perfectly safe.S&W must agree or there would be thumb safties on all M&Ps.My wife has her guns and I have mine she is perfectly safe with hers but for her to be comfortable with some of mine she needs more training with them.Which she gets when we hit the backyard range.

[hkyplr]

Originally Posted by catcus-jack

No you shouldn't get rid of it just make sure she is compentent with it.If not she needs more training.If people quit putting 2-3lb triggers on these pistols they are perfectly safe.S&W must agree or there would be thumb safties on all M&Ps.My wife has her guns and I have mine she is perfectly safe with hers but for her to be comfortable with some of mine she needs more training with them.Which she gets when we hit the backyard range.

It has nothing to do with what S&W believes is the safest, it has to with them giving their customers the ability to chose which works best for them.

How many police officers get shot with their own guns? It is near sided to think the situation would never arise where you might get your weapon taken away from you by an assailant or assailants. Or to think that you could have enough training to prepare you for all given possibilities.

[catcus-jack]

Most well known and acredited tactical schools offer firearm retention classes.Might want to look into them.If you have got yourself into a situation where your attacker has taken your weapon a thumb saftey is not going to keep him from using it like a hammer and beating you to death with it.If you have lost control of your weapon to your attacker be it a firearm,knife,ball bat whatever if you survive the attack count yourself lucky.When you recover get some professional training.Money better spent on training than blasting rounds down range.
Thumb saftey different strokes for different folks.Wonder why Glocks never put a thumb saftey on a pistol?

[mewisemajic]

If you count on the safety to make you safe with your gun you might just rely on the safety too much. I count on my brain keeping me safe. The issue over whether one should/must have a manual safety or not is like 9mm vs 45 argument, it will never be ended. Whichever you choose you still need to be smart and think with firearms around...

[catcus-jack]

No thumb saftey on my current ccw gun.

[hkyplr]

Originally Posted by catcus-jack

Most well known and acredited tactical schools offer firearm retention classes.Might want to look into them.If you have got yourself into a situation where your attacker has taken your weapon a thumb saftey is not going to keep him from using it like a hammer and beating you to death with it.If you have lost control of your weapon to your attacker be it a firearm,knife,ball bat whatever if you survive the attack count yourself lucky.When you recover get some professional training.Money better spent on training than blasting rounds down range.
Thumb saftey different strokes for different folks.Wonder why Glocks never put a thumb saftey on a pistol?

I am well aware of all the different training classes available, thanks. If a perp does get a hold of your weapon, the time it takes them to realize a thumb safety is engaged might give you time to recover and strike back. FWIW, I have a thumb safety on my 1911, but specifically chose not to have one on my 40c. I can see the arguement to having one.

Good luck to you...

[highaltitude]

Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure why holsters aren't brought up more as to how critical their role is in keeping a gun safe. I keep my Shield safety off and tucked away in a Remora holster at all times. The trigger is protected but yet gun ready to go when drawn. Finger off trigger until ready to shoot. On the other hand, if I did not plan on keeping my gun in a holster, then I would definitely feel better with a gun that has an external safety.

[kal45]

I do not like a thumb safety on my carry guns. Glock 23 and Kahr PM9. I do have one on on my nightstand gun which is my M&P 45 FS. Just something about it laying there with the trigger uncovered while I am not conscious or if I'm startled awake and reach for it in haste.

[walkin' trails]

I got used to revolvers and Glocks with no manual safeties. My M&P 45 came without one. A thumb safety won't necessarily prevent an AD. I've learned that from hardcore 1911 shooters. If a shooter has the chance to attend one of the good handgun schools, they will learn that holstering is performed one-handed with the finger off the trigger. If you've got a jacket with a draw string, use the support hand to ensure that nothing is in the way of the pistol back to its holster. Just make sure that you don't cross the muzzle over your support hand. I've heard that the M&Ps with manual safeties are great 1911 starter pistols. I can't disagree with that assessment. I would not equate a thumb safety to child gun safety. Educate your kids on the range one-on-one about firearms safety and the dangers of curiosity. Keep your pistol in a safe place where a kid can't access when its not on your person. Always be aware where your pistol is. How you store it is our busniess based on the risks you have to consider. If you're confortable with a manual safety on your pistol, that is fine. If you're not thats fine. Regardless of the firearm, remember the these rules:

1. TREAT ALL FIREARMS AS IF THEY ARE LOADED ALL OF THE TIME!

2. NEVER POINT A FIREARM IN THE DIRECTION OF ANYTHING YOU DO NOT INTEND TO DESTROY!. AND A BULLET SURE WILL DO IT.

3. KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER AND OUTSIDE OF THE TRIGGER GUARD UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE UP ON TARGET, AND YOU ARE PREPARED TO FIRE!

[HillTop]

Originally Posted by Danno_man

I traded a friend my M&P for his (which had a thumb safety), because I'm a 1911 shooter and don't mind the thumb safety.

Mine was stock with a 10-8 rear sight and his was stippled, 10-8 rear sight, Dawson front, and Apex internals.

I did just buy a $2300 gun from him at the same time too, so the trade was just a bonus.

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I was thinking about posting my M&Pc .357 sig with 40 cal and a 9mm barrel to trade for M&Pc with a thumb safety. My first pistol was 1911 and just seem to being wanting to go back to it. Might just need to train more to get away from the thumb safety.

[snubbyfan]

To each their own. I'm a revolver guy and when I get my first pistol, it'll be one without a thumb safety. I'm used to point and shoot.

[RockBottom]

See, threads like this drive me nuts. I'm waiting for an M&P40 to get back in stock at my favorite on-line retailer, and was all set on the 209300 no safety model, but now this thread has me rethinking it again.

[Nakanokalronin]

Originally Posted by RockBottom

See, threads like this drive me nuts. I'm waiting for an M&P40 to get back in stock at my favorite on-line retailer, and was all set on the 209300 no safety model, but now this thread has me rethinking it again.

Just get what you're used to. Post #19 are my reasons and thumbing a safety is second nature. Weather you're used to and train that way then get one with, if not get it without.

[RockBottom]

Originally Posted by Nakanokalronin

Just get what you're used to. Post #19 are my reasons and thumbing a safety is second nature. Weather you're used to and train that way then get one with, if not get it without.

See, that's great advice..., except this is my first gun, so I'm really not used to either model.

[GattlinGun]

Originally Posted by 805moparkid

between shirts, holsters, in and out of the car, there are alot of things that can happen.

There is just too much at stake. If you have to draw, any safety can be undone during that action.

All around just good.

[gdauth]

This discussion on safety vs no safety is interesting. I wonder how many of you have had to draw their gun. I don't carry, so I have a different perspective. I have never felt that I needed to carry, even when I lived in NYC during the 70s. I view safeties as a protection for others. If you injure yourself, well that is the breaks of the game, but if someone else is injured because you don't use a safety or secure your weapon, well that in my opinion is criminal. If you own a firearm you have an obligation to others. If you carry, your obligations are even greater. What scares me is that someone with little or no experience can get a CC permit by taking a three hour class. There are a lot of stupid people out there with guns, we all see it every day.

[team sidewinder]

All points are valid for the safety. I own 3 different handguns which are a 629 revolver with no safety and Sig 229R SA/DA with no safety so I leave the safety off on my Shield 9. If my kids were still home the guns would have to be locked up or have a safety with the safety on when left out. But hey that is just me.

[Arik]

Originally Posted by RockBottom

See, that's great advice..., except this is my first gun, so I'm really not used to either model.

Your biggest safety is whats between your ears. If youre gonna keep your finger in the trigger buy the one with the safety. Actually dont buy one at all. Modern striker fired guns dont need a safety. What uou do need is a good holster and belt. Another thing to consider is resale value. I see a lot of M&Ps at my LGS with thumb safeties just sit there while the ones without dont last a day. Not too many people want them.

In the end M&Ps are fine guns with or without a safety. One can make arguments all day for and against the thumb safety. Get what makes you happy and shoot it like you stole it!

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[Fabius]

The new safety on the Shield is one of my favorite features. I don't like the safeties on the regular M&Ps because they are too big and too easy to disengage.

I like safeties on M&Ps because with the pre-cock of the striker, the pistol is essentially a single action. The amount of rearward travel of the striker caused by pulling the trigger is almost undetectable. I would never carry or handle my 1911 cocked but unlocked, and I don't like doing so with an M&P.

I suspect that if cocked strikers were as visible as cocked hammers, more people would insist on safeties for striker fired weapons. I don't know anyone who carries their 1911 with the safety off.

[Danno_man]

Originally Posted by Fabius

The new safety on the Shield is one of my favorite features. I don't like the safeties on the regular M&Ps because they are too big and too easy to disengage.

I like safeties on M&Ps because with the pre-cock of the striker, the pistol is essentially a single action. The amount of rearward travel of the striker caused by pulling the trigger is almost undetectable. I would never carry or handle my 1911 cocked but unlocked, and I don't like doing so with an M&P.

I suspect that if cocked strikers were as visible as cocked hammers, more people would insist on safeties for striker fired weapons. I don't know anyone who carries their 1911 with the safety off.

The XD/XDm (classified as a single action) is basically the same as a 80 series 1911 with the thumb safety off.
The XD/XDm does have the trigger safety though.

I've had my 1911 thumb safety flip off a few times, but never freaked out about it. A properly working 1911 still needs the grip safety pressed in order to fire.

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[Vanilla Gorilla]

Originally Posted by gdauth

What scares me is that someone with little or no experience can get a CC permit by taking a three hour class.

I'm not sure there's much I can say about this statement without running afoul of the Code of Conduct for this forum. :/


As far as the safety, I don't like it. I thought I would, since I'm a big fan of the 1911, but it's not the same and not in the same place. It feels wrong. I also don't like a magazine disconnect, either.

My M&P is my duty weapon, and gets carried both on and off duty almost every single day. Not one single time have I worried about not having some little lever on the side, not when reholstering, not when drawing for practice, and not when drawing for work.

[Fabius]

Originally Posted by Danno_man

The XD/XDm (classified as a single action) is basically the same as a 80 series 1911 with the thumb safety off.
The XD/XDm does have the trigger safety though.

I've had my 1911 thumb safety flip off a few times, but never freaked out about it. A properly working 1911 still needs the grip safety pressed in order to fire.

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True, but the M&P doesn't have a grip safety. Even with a grip safety, most carry 1911s with the thumb safety engaged.

A major firearms training facility has determined that 50% of unintentional discharges involving personal injury occur while holstering a pistol. The grip safety will typically be disengaged while holstering because the user is gripping the grip while holstering. An engaged thumb safety reduces the likelihood of an AD considerably.

All the talk about the most important safety being between your ears is just justification for Glocks, and their imitators, not having a safety. That is why NYPD developed the New York trigger for the Glock, with a 12 pound trigger pull similar to a revolver.

As i recall, a famous basketball player was carrying a Glock tucked in his waistband. It slipped down his pants leg. When he reached to stop it he hit the trigger and AD'd a round into his leg. Then he was arrested. A thumb safety would have made that occurrence a non-incident. Granted, he shouldn't have been carrying a Glock without a holster (because it doesn't have a safety) but everyone is capable of a momentary lapse in judgment or a break down under stress.